Official Speculation Thread '20-'21 VI: "I like this team"

BlueBalls · Post #1781 » by **BlueBalls** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 12:05 am

Damn Okeke was a terrible pick.

They have to tank this year. They just have to.

Magicfanatic82 · Post #1782 » by **Magicfanatic82** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 12:36 am

BlueBalls wrote:Damn Okeke was a terrible pick.

They have to tank this year. They just have to.

Too early for this conclusion. He is in the first year of his deal and we only invested the 16th pick last year in him. He had Cliffs trust early and showed a nice feel for the game. Both him and Cole need time to acclimate.

Last Guardian · Post #1783 » by **Last Guardian** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 1:01 am

We miss Isaac not because he was good at defense, but because he simply tried. It goes a long way towards a watchable product. The team played soft every game so far but managed to be on a good offensive streak....until the first team that had size and defense came along. Just blow it up already. My dream center after watching this team is now Steven Adams lmao.

thelead · Post #1784 » by **thelead** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 1:25 am

Last Guardian wrote:We miss Isaac not because he was good at defense, but because he simply tried. It goes a long way towards a watchable product. The team played soft every game so far but managed to be on a good offensive streak....until the first team that had size and defense came along. Just blow it up already. My dream center after watching this team is now Steven Adams lmao.

Our offense would be brutal but I too would welcome what Steven Adams brings to the table. I'm tired of these marshmallows.

Magicfanatic82 · Post #1785 » by **Magicfanatic82** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 1:43 am

Vooch is especially weak inside this season. Drives me crazy. Hope Bamba can give something new.

MasterGMer · Post #1786 » by **MasterGMer** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:47 am

Fultz showed glimpse of what he can become last night's game. He still need his shots.

Dwayne Bacon needs to be more aggressive and he needs to have his shots also

Cole needs better shot selection. He was the same UNC Cole Anthony we thought. He attempted too many bad shots and low percentage shots

Hope Okeke recovers from the injury and come back stronger

I like our young guys TBH

RookieStar · Post #1787 » by **RookieStar** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 2:58 am

I have no problem when halfway down the season we are at .500 recordwise and theb just decide to tank it all for a top4 pick.
I mean unless you are the worst record in the league you are only guaranteed a top5 pick not even number 1.

So even if we finish 8th worst record wr can still have a top 4 pick

Cade/Suggs/Green
Mobley

Kuminga

Bleeeeh

Skybox · Post #1788 » by **Skybox** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:29 pm

What is our likely cap situation, given a few question marks...My understanding is that we are in cap limbo due to our stack of contracts in the teens and, obviously, that limits our flexibility and certainly takes us out of the UFA market. We just signed extensions to Fultz and Isaac (no complaint here)...

IF we let Evan just walk AND were able to trade AG into somebody's cap space or TPE (Boston?), what's our range of cap space scenarios?
that's giving up a lot of firepower, but could it lead to a bigger next step? It feels like our FO is unwilling to "lose a trade"...if you look at Morey, he lost value on Horford trade, but set his team on a course of improvement. Maybe that kind of shuffle is our next move. AG and Evan have value but maybe the greater good is using their value in a more abstract way.

I was thinking AG to BOS for Nesmith and cap straight up...but, how about AG, Aminu, and a lottery protected first for Naismith and cap? I don't think you could realistically do it without the first added (obviously prefer a couple seconds but...)

Or, do we "give away" AG to BOS to make re-signing Evan more financially palatable? I'd let him walk for Trent in a second...could we end up with, essentially, AG/Evan/Aminu/a pick for Trent, Nesmith, and some cap flexibility?

We may not be a FA destination (yet) but having that cap space does allow us to make significant trades or throw some money and a starting spot on a well balanced young team to Trent- assuming those trades aren't available today. Any capologists here?

Skybox · Post #1789 » by **Skybox** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 5:35 pm

following the previous post...

Fultz/Anthony/MCW
Trent/Nesmith
Bacon/TRoss
Isaac/Okeke/Clark
Vucevic/Bamba/Birch

plus, a good pick and some cap room(?)

The Effect · Post #1790 » by **The Effect** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 7:28 pm

For all the people calling for Gary Trent, just remember that next year when WeHam Sell off our 2nd round pick again or waste our 2nd rounder on another guy with a big wingspan and no nba ability

sad to see just how bad that 2018 draft was for us. Bambas done nothing in 2 years and we had the 35 pick and wasted it on no talent Melvin Frazier, next 2 picks were mitchell robinson and Gary Trent

VFX · Post #1791 » by **VFX** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:00 pm

The Effect wrote:For all the people calling for Gary Trent, just remember that next year when WeHam Sell off our 2nd round pick again or waste our 2nd rounder on another guy with a big wingspan and no nba ability

sad to see just how bad that 2018 draft was for us. Bambas done nothing in 2 years and we had the 35 pick and wasted it on no talent Melvin Frazier, next 2 picks were mitchell robinson and Gary Trent

I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

jonbob17 · Post #1792 » by **jonbob17** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 10:40 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
The Effect wrote:For all the people calling for Gary Trent, just remember that next year when WeHam Sell off our 2nd round pick again or waste our 2nd rounder on another guy with a big wingspan and no nba ability

sad to see just how bad that 2018 draft was for us. Bambas done nothing in 2 years and we had the 35 pick and wasted it on no talent Melvin Frazier, next 2 picks were mitchell robinson and Gary Trent

I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

VFX · Post #1793 » by **VFX** » Sat Jan 2, 2021 11:03 pm

jonbob17 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
The Effect wrote:For all the people calling for Gary Trent, just remember that next year when WeHam Sell off our 2nd round pick again or waste our 2nd rounder on another guy with a big wingspan and no nba ability

sad to see just how bad that 2018 draft was for us. Bambas done nothing in 2 years and we had the 35 pick and wasted it on no talent Melvin Frazier, next 2 picks were mitchell robinson and Gary Trent

I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

The bigger issue I have is that there is zero downside to drafting players in the 2nd round that have obvious capabilities of becoming rotation players on this Magic roster. My problem is that they aren’t trying to maximize value wherever possible.

Instead, they would rather pay guys like Aminu, or give a player like Clark an opportunity when he provides nothing spectacular.

It annoys me to see the occasional 2nd round players become real rotation guys for other teams, while Orlando never manages to find that value. Even if they were to misfire on their picks we could say they tried. Orlando is the kind of organization that needs to capitalize on draft value whenever possible.

We are talking about guys like Gary Trent drafted in the second round. For once it would be great to land these guys and not have them in fantasy potential trades for our known quantities.

Skybox · Post #1794 » by **Skybox** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 12:17 am

I feel your pain, but Gary Trent is one success in a bunch of second round fails...I agree it's foolish to waste them, but Trent's no longer a second-rounder anymore than Wiggins, Bennett, Gordon and Bamba are "high lottery picks"...who cares? Trent is showing real proven skill but he's in a logjam in POR.

jonbob17 · Post #1795 » by **jonbob17** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 3:29 am

MagicMatic wrote:
jonbob17 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
I wanted to make a post about the number of capable 2nd round picks this FO punted on or wasted with their bull**** excuses. Doesn’t even really seem worth it. If anyone disagrees, they are obviously ezzzp levels of homer.

I hate the way the FO gives away our 2nds as much as anyone, but the number of guys that actually make a rotation from the 2nd round is relatively small. I thought Isiaih Joe would have been the perfect 12th man for this team, but they obviously thought differently.

Maybe they are not good at evaluating fringe talent. They do seem to be ok at turning 2nd rounders into rotation guys, ennis last year, and what we all thought would be 2nds into Fultz.

Kind of boring to me, but just part of the overall picture that lowers my expectations for our future.

Looking back at their picks they have basically been highest projected WAR players, at least according to Kevin Pelton’s rankings. I wish I had a ESPN subscription to confirm this.

The bigger issue I have is that there is zero downside to drafting players in the 2nd round that have obvious capabilities of becoming rotation players on this Magic roster. My problem is that they aren’t trying to maximize value wherever possible.

Instead, they would rather pay guys like Aminu, or give a player like Clark an opportunity when he provides nothing spectacular.

It annoys me to see the occasional 2nd round players become real rotation guys for other teams, while Orlando never manages to find that value. Even if they were to misfire on their picks we could say they tried. Orlando is the kind of organization that needs to capitalize on draft value whenever possible.

We are talking about guys like Gary Trent drafted in the second round. For once it would be great to land these guys and not have them in fantasy potential trades for our known quantities.

I get the frustration. It made me sick when they said they didn’t have room for a 2nd round pick, and then they signed Bacon and Clark, like it was some brilliant plan. Bacon was clearly throwing Clifford a bone, but surely we could have done better than these fringe nba players. I’d much rather them drafted a SF or a shooter.

I will say I think both the UDFAs they signed to two ways were pretty savvy.

Post #1796 » by **Def Swami** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 4:51 am

Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

thelead · Post #1797 » by **thelead** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 5:16 am

Def Swami wrote:Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

From a modern NBA perspective, I still prefer Bamba. Who knows why he's not playing though

Anti Chalmers · Post #1798 » by **Anti Chalmers** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 6:39 am

So frustrating watching MCW shoot 25 ft bricks. I guess you’re kinda force to shoot when the opposing team leaves you wide open.

RookieStar · Post #1799 » by **RookieStar** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 8:48 am

Def Swami wrote:Marvin Bagley for Mo Bamba?

Read on Twitter

I like Bagley. How about AG/Evan for Bagley/Hield plus whatever filler and draft picks needed to make it work?

With Fox Hield and Tyrese... they are too small for the 1-3.. one of them coulf be upgraded to evan a legit 6'7 for the SF role.

pepe1991 · Post #1800 » by **pepe1991** » Sun Jan 3, 2021 10:10 am

Lot of Magic issues through years comes from complete lack of understanding what modern basketball is all about.
In years where whole damn league went toward + 35 threes a game, 35% for 3, Magic, to this date, have 2 funcional shooters and Vuc who could in conversation as "shooter".

I'm looking, just 6 games in, our shooting splits, and it's just more of the same. Ross, Vuc and Evan above league's average. Everybody else below. Just like it was last year ( where even Ross and Vuc over longer period of time were below league's average).

76ers with Hinkie did sooo damn little to just revitalize team. Added 2 shooting guards. Whole offense fixed as no longer Embiid and Simmons can be trapped under every pick&roll set.
If Magic just brought one small forward who is plus shooter (Tony Snell, Bullock,Justin Holiday, Jeremy Lamb, not even some high quality guy needed) and kept DJ or just found another backup PG who can shoot ( instad of vasting MLE on Aminu for example ) whole team would look better.

As it is set right now, especially off bench, there is nobody who is reliable 3 point shooter but Ross. I knew in moment we let DJ walk and about to start rookie PG that season will turn into s**** show. Especially because rookie PG is yet to learn what playmaking means.

In this time and age you flat out can't play Gordon- Fultz- Bacon lineups.
You can't play Birch-MCW- Cole Anthony lineups.

And you can't expect from 3 shooters you have, to average combination of 70 points on 65% TS.