The Dante Exum Thread

[MellowRose]

Penny was sick, I think the most skilled Magic player ever. He made guys better in a way that Tracy never did. I was very fortunate to see many of his games from silly good seats and it was an honor. That said, Penny was at least 21 when he came in the league. Exum will have 3 years of NBA coaching and developement by 21 and already is showing glimpses of some great players. I am no scout but my eyes don't normally lie to me and this dude is a stud. Folks around here weren't very high on MCW last year either. If he's there at 4 we will be lucky to have him.

glimpses of greatness against HS players doesnt say much. Kwame Brown looked great against HS players.

Furthermore, how did Wiggins/Parker/etc ever land on our radar before college? They certainly hadn't played against legit talent. But people felt safe in evaluating them as the top 2 prospects of this Draft class a year out from it. And even after underwhelming performances from Wiggins, he's still considered a top 3, if not #1 pick.

If your argument is based on "you can't evaluate a player until they play college basketball", then where do you draw the line?

Randle was the #1/#2 player coming out of HS and the Harrison twins were projected to be top-5. Randle is now projected to go around #6 and the twins maybe in the 2nd round.

What happens if the Magic grab Exum and he has so many damn flaws that he would have been picked around #10 if he had played college ball?

You draw the line in the sand when you have two players in Smart and Exum, and Smart has put up the same stats as Exum in NCAA ball as Exum did in FIBA tourney. Smart is clearly the superior player and you know what you're going to get with Smart.





I'm done for today.

[MellowRose]

you have to take the combine with a grain of salt every time.

according to the combine, OJ Mayo can jump a whopping 4 inches higher than Westbrook LOL.

Still. Garnet and Dwight were monster who were dominate. Exum is not dominate. He is good with potential. But, I don't see Kobe or Penny much less Wall or Rose. Exum's flat short outside shot just scares me. I like LaVine more than Exum because of his sweet outside stroke and better athletics. I like Smart more than Exum because of his competiveness.

i dont really look at Lavine's shooting as much of a strength right now. He has pretty bad form, flying elbow and a low release point, even lower than Exum, which is largely a criticism of his shot.

No one is fixing his form. Yes, it's unconventional, but it works for him. Melo doesn't have a conventional shooting form either. Should we now bench his ass until he fixes his form???

If the ball goes in, that's all that matters.

You are coming up with the **** damn arguments and I'm getting pissed.

I'm throwing in the towel for tonight.

[BadMofoPimp]

you have to take the combine with a grain of salt every time.

according to the combine, OJ Mayo can jump a whopping 4 inches higher than Westbrook LOL.

Still. Garnet and Dwight were monster who were dominate. Exum is not dominate. He is good with potential. But, I don't see Kobe or Penny much less Wall or Rose. Exum's flat short outside shot just scares me. I like LaVine more than Exum because of his sweet outside stroke and better athletics. I like Smart more than Exum because of his competiveness.

i dont really look at Lavine's shooting as much of a strength right now. He has pretty bad form, flying elbow and a low release point, even lower than Exum, which is largely a criticism of his shot.

Not the stroke, but the nice deep arc of shot is what I meant. For instance, Shawn Marion never had a sweet looking stroke, but had a nice shot. None-the-less, Exum has a sweet 10 foot jumper. He just has to find open shots closer to the basket. NBA might be tougher on that level with the bigs we have than Australian High School. It wasn't like he has had time to face that level of actual defensive preparation. Even on the international level where they were concentration on offense more than defense.

[BadMofoPimp]

Randle was the #1/#2 player coming out of HS and the Harrison twins were projected to be top-5. Randle is now projected to go around #6 and the twins maybe in the 2nd round.

What happens if the Magic grab Exum and he has so many damn flaws that he would have been picked around #10 if he had played college ball?

You draw the line in the sand when you have two players in Smart and Exum, and Smart has put up the same stats as Exum in NCAA ball as Exum did in FIBA tourney. Smart is clearly the superior player and you know what you're going to get with Smart.

It almost appears that some fans may be suicidal if Henny chooses Smart over Exum. I just can't fathom Henny picking Exum over Smart. Henny appears to like super hard workers who are very competitive. Sounds like the Smart choice. Smart or Randle unless someone falls. The hype seems marketed and a smoke screen to me. Sort of like what McLemore, Burke and Noel had.

[Smooth_E]

To all of you saying "Exum ain't s**t because he only plays against high-school players":

Please explain how happy you were that we drafted a high school Dwight Howard over NCAA champion Emeka Okafor.

Please, tell me what the difference is.. Honest question.

[MellowRose]

this is the elephant in the room. Choosing exum over a college player is no different than choosing howard or garnett out of high school.

No, it is not. The tallest damn player Exum faced in HS was probably around 6-6. Is this what the current HS players in the States are facing?


NO.

You are all forgetting that Dante hasn't just played against High School talent in Australia. He has been part of the Australian Institure of Sport (AIS) program for some time and also been involved with the Australian Men's team during camps from the age of 15. So whilst he hasn't played a game every week against huge guys, to say he hasn't experienced it is wrong. Whilst he still has a lot of work to do, I think the time he has spent in the US since the All Star break has been hugley beneficial. Whilst still slight in frame, he has obviously added some size to his upper body and spent every day working on his game.
I think his D will definitely improve wiith better talent around him and more emphasis on it from coaching staff as well.
It didn't look like he had too much trouble getting into the lane at the Hoop Summit against the best of the US????

He was being guarded by garbage ass Andrew Harrison all game long in that Nike Hoop Summit. There's no wonder why he impressed.

The tallest guy for team U.S. was about 6-8 242 lb in Noah Vonleh. Also worth mentioning Exum only took EIGHT FGA. That sample size isn't worth anything. Only had 2 assists as well.

What frightens me about Exum is that for everything positive you can say about him, there's almost ALWAYS something the opposition can say to neutralize that positive aspect i.e. Andrew Harrison guarding Exum, small sample size, no true shot blocking big man, etc...

Still not sold.

[Orlwillbeback]

Not the stroke, but the nice deep arc of shot is what I meant. For instance, Shawn Marion never had a sweet looking stroke, but had a nice shot. None-the-less, Exum has a sweet 10 foot jumper. He just has to find open shots closer to the basket. NBA might be tougher on that level with the bigs we have than Australian High School. It wasn't like he has had time to face that level of actual defensive preparation. Even on the international level where they were concentration on offense more than defense.

it is worth noting that Marion's success os more of an exception rather than the rule. Lavine shot a solid percentage from three but has a sub-70% mark from the line. It is very unusual for a player's shooting to be considered a strength when his shot looks like that. Austin Rivers comes to mind, granted i dont think Lavine's shot is as bad as Rivers.

[BadMofoPimp]

Not the stroke, but the nice deep arc of shot is what I meant. For instance, Shawn Marion never had a sweet looking stroke, but had a nice shot. None-the-less, Exum has a sweet 10 foot jumper. He just has to find open shots closer to the basket. NBA might be tougher on that level with the bigs we have than Australian High School. It wasn't like he has had time to face that level of actual defensive preparation. Even on the international level where they were concentration on offense more than defense.

it is worth noting that Marion's success os more of an exception rather than the rule. Lavine shot a solid percentage from three but has a sub-70% mark from the line. It is very unusual for a player's shooting to be considered a strength when his shot looks like that. Austin Rivers comes to mind, granted i dont think Lavine's shot is as bad as Rivers.

All good. Will sure be interesting who gets drafted where as surprises always happen regardless of hype and analysts. Then, it sure will be fun watching who prove who wrong. Usually, the most competitive and hard working survive. You know, the Oladipo's and Dwights or Smarts and Randles of the world.

[MellowRose]

Not the stroke, but the nice deep arc of shot is what I meant. For instance, Shawn Marion never had a sweet looking stroke, but had a nice shot. None-the-less, Exum has a sweet 10 foot jumper. He just has to find open shots closer to the basket. NBA might be tougher on that level with the bigs we have than Australian High School. It wasn't like he has had time to face that level of actual defensive preparation. Even on the international level where they were concentration on offense more than defense.

it is worth noting that Marion's success os more of an exception rather than the rule. Lavine shot a solid percentage from three but has a sub-70% mark from the line. It is very unusual for a player's shooting to be considered a strength when his shot looks like that. Austin Rivers comes to mind, granted i dont think Lavine's shot is as bad as Rivers.

Melo. Marion, Bonner, Kevin Martin, etc...there have been and continue to be NBA players who are successful shooting the ball, although they may not have textbook form.

[Pipp33]

No, it is not. The tallest damn player Exum faced in HS was probably around 6-6. Is this what the current HS players in the States are facing?


NO.

You are all forgetting that Dante hasn't just played against High School talent in Australia. He has been part of the Australian Institure of Sport (AIS) program for some time and also been involved with the Australian Men's team during camps from the age of 15. So whilst he hasn't played a game every week against huge guys, to say he hasn't experienced it is wrong. Whilst he still has a lot of work to do, I think the time he has spent in the US since the All Star break has been hugley beneficial. Whilst still slight in frame, he has obviously added some size to his upper body and spent every day working on his game.
I think his D will definitely improve wiith better talent around him and more emphasis on it from coaching staff as well.
It didn't look like he had too much trouble getting into the lane at the Hoop Summit against the best of the US????

He was being guarded by garbage ass Andrew Harrison all game long in that Nike Hoop Summit. There's no wonder why he impressed.

The tallest guy for team U.S. was about 6-8 242 lb in Noah Vonleh. Also worth mentioning Exum only took EIGHT FGA. That sample size isn't worth anything. Only had 2 assists as well.

What frightens me about Exum is that for everything positive you can say about him, there's almost ALWAYS something the opposition can say to neutralize that positive aspect i.e. Andrew Harrison guarding Exum, small sample size, no true shot blocking big man, etc...

Still not sold.

I think the only people who can be sold on him are the teams he does work outs for.

At the end of the day - he is a high school kid from Australia, which would be scary for any team to take at the high end of the lottery even if he had videos like LBJ's out of High School. To select a player from a country with very little pedigree of producing big time baskteball talent is a risk, but he has been groomed for this for a very long time and I don't think he will be a bust. He may not dominate, but can't see him not being at least a serviceable starter.

[Orlwillbeback]

Not the stroke, but the nice deep arc of shot is what I meant. For instance, Shawn Marion never had a sweet looking stroke, but had a nice shot. None-the-less, Exum has a sweet 10 foot jumper. He just has to find open shots closer to the basket. NBA might be tougher on that level with the bigs we have than Australian High School. It wasn't like he has had time to face that level of actual defensive preparation. Even on the international level where they were concentration on offense more than defense.

it is worth noting that Marion's success os more of an exception rather than the rule. Lavine shot a solid percentage from three but has a sub-70% mark from the line. It is very unusual for a player's shooting to be considered a strength when his shot looks like that. Austin Rivers comes to mind, granted i dont think Lavine's shot is as bad as Rivers.

Melo. Marion, Bonner, Kevin Martin, etc...there have been and continue to be NBA players who are successful shooting the ball, although they may not have textbook form.

melo has good form actually

bonner's is unconventional but it is a push- set shot that works because it is actually fundamentally not all that bad, just the opposite of a jump shot. It is a true set shot.

Kevin martin has very little movement in his shot and it is all wrist but he has good balance and he doesnt have a flying elbow or anything like lavine

The only player of those 4 i could say has worse form than Lavine is Marion and Marion is an extreme exception to the rule.

[MagicStarwipe]

Exum comes out of the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport). Same place Bogut and Patty Mills came from. He also played against some of the top talent in the world in his age bracket. He didn't just play Australian high school ball.

[MellowRose]

You are all forgetting that Dante hasn't just played against High School talent in Australia. He has been part of the Australian Institure of Sport (AIS) program for some time and also been involved with the Australian Men's team during camps from the age of 15. So whilst he hasn't played a game every week against huge guys, to say he hasn't experienced it is wrong. Whilst he still has a lot of work to do, I think the time he has spent in the US since the All Star break has been hugley beneficial. Whilst still slight in frame, he has obviously added some size to his upper body and spent every day working on his game.
I think his D will definitely improve wiith better talent around him and more emphasis on it from coaching staff as well.
It didn't look like he had too much trouble getting into the lane at the Hoop Summit against the best of the US????

He was being guarded by garbage ass Andrew Harrison all game long in that Nike Hoop Summit. There's no wonder why he impressed.

The tallest guy for team U.S. was about 6-8 242 lb in Noah Vonleh. Also worth mentioning Exum only took EIGHT FGA. That sample size isn't worth anything. Only had 2 assists as well.

What frightens me about Exum is that for everything positive you can say about him, there's almost ALWAYS something the opposition can say to neutralize that positive aspect i.e. Andrew Harrison guarding Exum, small sample size, no true shot blocking big man, etc...

Still not sold.

I think the only people who can be sold on him are the teams he does work outs for.

At the end of the day - he is a high school kid from Australia, which would be scary for any team to take at the high end of the lottery even if he had videos like LBJ's out of High School. To select a player from a country with very little pedigree of producing big time baskteball talent is a risk, but he has been groomed for this for a very long time and I don't think he will be a bust. He may not dominate, but can't see him not being at least a serviceable starter.

So you're saying it's okay if we get a "serviceable starter" with the #4 pick in a loaded draft? I'm trying to find the superstar in this draft, not the serviceable starter who will get me fired in a couple of years.

[MellowRose]

it is worth noting that Marion's success os more of an exception rather than the rule. Lavine shot a solid percentage from three but has a sub-70% mark from the line. It is very unusual for a player's shooting to be considered a strength when his shot looks like that. Austin Rivers comes to mind, granted i dont think Lavine's shot is as bad as Rivers.

Melo. Marion, Bonner, Kevin Martin, etc...there have been and continue to be NBA players who are successful shooting the ball, although they may not have textbook form.

melo has good form actually

bonner's is unconventional but it is a push- set shot that works because it is actually fundamentally not all that bad, just the opposite of a jump shot. It is a true set shot.

Kevin martin has very little movement in his shot and it is all wrist but he has good balance and he doesnt have a flying elbow or anything like lavine

The only player of those 4 i could say has worse form than Lavine is Marion and Marion is an extreme exception to the rule.

Don't matter to what degree their shots are unconventional. The point is it's not textbook form, just like LaVine. You can go right on ahead and try to justify why LaVine's is nearly the worst, but that's not proving anything...at all.

[Devin 1L]

And this is a prime example of why people are enamored with this kid. "Hes 6'6"! All the stuff you see him do on the court is against inferior talent. I'll say it, I dont think Henny picks him. I think hes hyped up because everyone wants to find the next MCW. I dont see Elite player based on what little ive seen.

this is a dumb example, so when embiid was dominating the NCAA this year, does that mean he's any less of a player due to playing against "inferior" talent, since he was quite clearly better than everyone? Why exactly should Exum's size not be a plus in his favor?

Oh, come on, really?

It means he's less proven and less certain.

Is it really that hard to comprehend that there would be a continuum of certainty based upon (a) a players output and (b) level of competition that they faced while producing that output.

Every draft pick is inherently unproven by the simple fact that by definition they've never played in the NBA, which is the future performance which we are attempting to predict.

If a player is out on the court dominating kids at Podunk Regional Middle School (inferior NBA talent,) they may well be a great NBA prospect, but it's going to be a lot more certain if that player is dominating the Big 12 in Division 1 of the NCAA (also inferior NBA talent.)

[BadMofoPimp]

To all of you saying "Exum ain't s**t because he only plays against high-school players":

Please explain how happy you were that we drafted a high school Dwight Howard over NCAA champion Emeka Okafor.

Please, tell me what the difference is.. Honest question.

To me, it is much different when it comes to bigs and guards. A super athletic big like Dwight or even Embiid will always appear better than guards. Who knows when it is all said and done. Exum can surprise, but he can just as easily underwhelm. I am thinking middle of the road to above average player. But, not superstar like the hype.

I wonder who Oladipo truly wants on his team . . . extremely competitive or hype.

[Orlwillbeback]

Don't matter to what degree their shots are unconventional. The point is it's not textbook form, just like LaVine. You can go right on ahead and try to justify why LaVine's is nearly the worst, but that's not proving anything...at all.

sure it is. There are different degrees of bad, and I personally think Lavine's shot looks worse fundamentally than all those players except Marion.

Being unconventional is not the same thing as being bad form. A good shooting stroke has balance, eyes elbow and follow through and with lavine i see he only has 2 of those 4.

[MellowRose]

Exum comes out of the AIS (Australian Institute of Sport). Same place Bogut and Patty Mills came from. He also played against some of the top talent in the world in his age bracket. He didn't just play Australian high school ball.

WOW...he came out of the **** AIS? Man, that **** is better than the NBA.


Who the **** cares about the AIS? Does it show us anything? NO. Does it help us in evaluating his talent and how he'll translate to the NBA? NO.

As to the he played against top talent, I'll say this briefly, since I already explained it in depth previously (especially the FIBA tourney), he took 8 FGA at the Nike Hoop Summit, while having garbage ass Andrew Harrison guarding him. Tallest "shot blocker" on team USA was Vonleh (who was 6-8 at the time), and he's not even known to be a tremendous shot blocker.

Small sample size (8 FGA) + no real shot blocker + garbage ass perimeter defender = Nothing.

[BadMofoPimp]

I could care less if the Magic draft Lavine or Exum when all is said and done. Because, I just want the best educated professional decision in the pic. But, when Lavine jumped 7 inches higher than Exum, that just blew me out of the water especially when people claim Exum as Elite athletics.

[MellowRose]

Don't matter to what degree their shots are unconventional. The point is it's not textbook form, just like LaVine. You can go right on ahead and try to justify why LaVine's is nearly the worst, but that's not proving anything...at all.

sure it is. There are different degrees of bad, and I personally think Lavine's shot looks worse fundamentally than all those players except Marion.

Being unconventional is not the same thing as being bad form. A good shooting stroke has balance, eyes elbow and follow through and with lavine i see he only has 2 of those 4.

So, you're saying what? LaVine is not a good shooter?