The Tobias Harris Situation

[Nyce_1]

Harris for Taj + McD

Taj is the athletic defensive PF (ala West) that we need, and McD is the wing sniper we don't have to continue to space the floor for Elf & Vic.

Payton/BG
Oladipo/Fournier
AG/McD
Gibson/Frye
Vuc/KOQ/Dedmon

[JBSouthpaw]

No need for another defensless SF. I see no reason trading Harris for another SF period.

I'm thinking we won't have Harkless or Harris on the team next year, so we'd be a bit thin with just AG & Marble.
Also, Doug can shoot, it's a different skill than what any of our SFs would have. I think he would be great off the bench.

I will still pass. This team has bad enough defense and zero need for a SF. I seriously doubt Henny is going to trade any player because,"we will probably lose a player anyways." Doesn't make sense to me. We need defense and Frontcourt. Harris is worth much more than McDougie. I wish him luck though. He overrated on this board though.

With McD, look at where JJ was his 1st year, wasn't able to contribute. But he worked hard. I think Doug has the work ethic.
If you think Harris is overrated, then he isn't worth more than McD, when Harris is on an expiring.

The problems of what to do with what to do with Harris and needing frontcourt help don't have to solve each other.

[BadMofoPimp]

Harris for Taj + McD

Taj is the athletic defensive PF (ala West) that we need, and McD is the wing sniper we don't have to continue to space the floor for Elf & Vic.

Payton/BG
Oladipo/Fournier
AG/McD
Gibson/Frye
Vuc/KOQ/Dedmon

BadMofoPimp endorses this kind of deal. We would probably have to throw in KOQ (prefer Frye), but I still do it.

[Nyce_1]

Harris for Taj + McD

Taj is the athletic defensive PF (ala West) that we need, and McD is the wing sniper we don't have to continue to space the floor for Elf & Vic.

Payton/BG
Oladipo/Fournier
AG/McD
Gibson/Frye
Vuc/KOQ/Dedmon

BadMofoPimp endorses this kind of deal. We would probably have to throw in KOQ (prefer Frye), but I still do it.

Nah, KOQ is too much value added. MAYBE Nicholson? If we do 2-for-1, we'd also have to waive someone; likely candidate being Willie. We still have a big coaching problem, and our bench will need tweaking (Moe still here to rotate with McD for matchups).

I don't see Chi as good partners because they're already paying Rose & Noah, good coin. Will have to pay up for Butler. Pau making Frye money (ouch!). I don't know if they'd be willing to Pony up for Tobias too. If you had to pay for Butler or Tobias, who would you take? Exactly.

[tiderulz]

Harris for Taj + McD

Taj is the athletic defensive PF (ala West) that we need, and McD is the wing sniper we don't have to continue to space the floor for Elf & Vic.

Payton/BG
Oladipo/Fournier
AG/McD
Gibson/Frye
Vuc/KOQ/Dedmon

BadMofoPimp endorses this kind of deal. We would probably have to throw in KOQ (prefer Frye), but I still do it.

Nah, KOQ is too much value added. MAYBE Nicholson? If we do 2-for-1, we'd also have to waive someone; likely candidate being Willie. We still have a big coaching problem, and our bench will need tweaking (Moe still here to rotate with McD for matchups).

I don't see Chi as good partners because they're already paying Rose & Noah, good coin. Will have to pay up for Butler. Pau making Frye money (ouch!). I don't know if they'd be willing to Pony up for Tobias too. If you had to pay for Butler or Tobias, who would you take? Exactly.

the overration of KOQ continues. He is a bench player. Gibson could easily start and is better than KOQ on offense and defense.

[BadMofoPimp]

Harris for Taj + McD

Taj is the athletic defensive PF (ala West) that we need, and McD is the wing sniper we don't have to continue to space the floor for Elf & Vic.

Payton/BG
Oladipo/Fournier
AG/McD
Gibson/Frye
Vuc/KOQ/Dedmon

BadMofoPimp endorses this kind of deal. We would probably have to throw in KOQ (prefer Frye), but I still do it.

Nah, KOQ is too much value added. MAYBE Nicholson? If we do 2-for-1, we'd also have to waive someone; likely candidate being Willie. We still have a big coaching problem, and our bench will need tweaking (Moe still here to rotate with McD for matchups).

I don't see Chi as good partners because they're already paying Rose & Noah, good coin. Will have to pay up for Butler. Pau making Frye money (ouch!). I don't know if they'd be willing to Pony up for Tobias too. If you had to pay for Butler or Tobias, who would you take? Exactly.

Nicholson would fit that team well. But, if it is 2 for 2 players, then no players dropped. Harris/Bum Garbage/Nicholson for Gibson/McD/Filler would work, but I doubt they let go Gibson cuz of his defense, but I would do this deal.

Maybe, Bum could re-work his magic from the early days for the Bulls.

[Nyce_1]

BadMofoPimp endorses this kind of deal. We would probably have to throw in KOQ (prefer Frye), but I still do it.

Nah, KOQ is too much value added. MAYBE Nicholson? If we do 2-for-1, we'd also have to waive someone; likely candidate being Willie. We still have a big coaching problem, and our bench will need tweaking (Moe still here to rotate with McD for matchups).

I don't see Chi as good partners because they're already paying Rose & Noah, good coin. Will have to pay up for Butler. Pau making Frye money (ouch!). I don't know if they'd be willing to Pony up for Tobias too. If you had to pay for Butler or Tobias, who would you take? Exactly.

the overration of KOQ continues. He is a bench player. Gibson could easily start and is better than KOQ on offense and defense.

I agree 100% but Harris & KOQ is more value going out than Gibson and McD's value coming in.

[tiderulz]

Nah, KOQ is too much value added. MAYBE Nicholson? If we do 2-for-1, we'd also have to waive someone; likely candidate being Willie. We still have a big coaching problem, and our bench will need tweaking (Moe still here to rotate with McD for matchups).

I don't see Chi as good partners because they're already paying Rose & Noah, good coin. Will have to pay up for Butler. Pau making Frye money (ouch!). I don't know if they'd be willing to Pony up for Tobias too. If you had to pay for Butler or Tobias, who would you take? Exactly.

the overration of KOQ continues. He is a bench player. Gibson could easily start and is better than KOQ on offense and defense.

I agree 100% but Harris & KOQ is more value going out than Gibson and McD's value coming in.

not if you believe that McD will be a good player with a bit more development, and being on a rookie contract. And Gibson locked in for 2 more years, gives you time to find a PF to develop behind him.

[Bensational]

I'd do McDermott + SAC 1st for Harris

sure. right after we do Harkless for Mirotic.

a Harris for Mirotic swap is fair for both sides.

Not for Mirotic. That's asking a lot for a guy who's expiring at the end of the season.

Not even sure if he's in Orlando's future plan. Surprised he's coming off the bench all of a sudden.

it's not asking that much at all. it's swapping a talented, scoring 22 year old SF who's averaging 17ppg and 7rpg with good efficiency for a talented 23 year PF who fits our needs perfectly.

you guys have Gasol and Gibson, so you have depth at PF to spare Mirotic. we have Gordon, Marble and Harkless, so we've got depth at SF.

Harris is an RFA, and a swap now would mean that Chicago would own his rights. His endorsement deals are structured that he would get a big bonus for signing in a bigger market, so he may even give you a discount to re-sign there. if not, you match anything that's offered to him.

McDermott would be an interesting piece to have, but not for our 2nd best scorer. Plus, he wouldn't serve any need, so trading one of our best guys and not even filling a need would make the deal redundant. Harkless for McDermott, sure thing.

[Blue_and_Whte]

sure. right after we do Harkless for Mirotic.

a Harris for Mirotic swap is fair for both sides.

Not for Mirotic. That's asking a lot for a guy who's expiring at the end of the season.

Not even sure if he's in Orlando's future plan. Surprised he's coming off the bench all of a sudden.

it's not asking that much at all. it's swapping a talented, scoring 22 year old SF who's averaging 17ppg and 7rpg with good efficiency for a talented 23 year PF who fits our needs perfectly.

you guys have Gasol and Gibson, so you have depth at PF to spare Mirotic. we have Gordon, Marble and Harkless, so we've got depth at SF.

Harris is an RFA, and a swap now would mean that Chicago would own his rights. His endorsement deals are structured that he would get a big bonus for signing in a bigger market, so he may even give you a discount to re-sign there. if not, you match anything that's offered to him.

McDermott would be an interesting piece to have, but not for our 2nd best scorer. Plus, he wouldn't serve any need, so trading one of our best guys and not even filling a need would make the deal redundant. Harkless for McDermott, sure thing.

Exactly. Although I'd do the Hark for MCBuckets swap.

[callmened]

greetings from harlem...

i was just wondering about tobias harris and his future so i decided to visit this page to see if this has been discussed.(i plan to read through all of yourposts). as a knicks fan, it wouldnt surprise me to see him in nyc: hes from long island, family full of knicks fans and he works out with melo. plus he seems unhappy with orlando - dude isnt even starting...smh. seems like the magic are trying to run and gun. nyc runs a slower pace for (marsh)melo and the triangle

what are youre thoughts (well iguess i shouldread all these posts first)

[callmened]

i think "skin" made a great point on why harris has been benched - control the market by controlling his mins/stats. thats way teams wont be impressed and they wont offer him much. that tells me orlando HOPES to keep harris but not at a high price. well youre messing with the wrong team. lol. the knicks will overspend on AWFUL backup players let alone good ones with potential. i fully expect the knicks to (foolishly) offer him the max (hes good but he aint that good). the knicks will strike out on gasol, alridge, dragic and others. theyll panic by offering at least 20mill to harris. i dont think orlando will match that

[Magic_Johnny12]

I also put this in the trade deadline thread..

I heard a rumor on Twitter that the Knicks are interested in Harris and a pick swap with us and that it will allow them to sign a max FA and use most of their cap and still be able to match whatever any other team offers Harris....

1) Does that even sound credible and possible?
2) Lets say Knicks get #2/3 pick and we stick with the 5th is moving up 2-3 spots worth Harris?
3) "IF" Magic are interested who do we target? Stanley Johnson in Harris replacement?
4) Why are the Knicks/Knicks Fans so fascinated in Harris when they have Melo?

[Orlwillbeback]

We really shouldnt let tobias go, guys. Hes 22!

[woosah]

greetings from harlem...

i was just wondering about tobias harris and his future so i decided to visit this page to see if this has been discussed.(i plan to read through all of yourposts). as a knicks fan, it wouldnt surprise me to see him in nyc: hes from long island, family full of knicks fans and he works out with melo. plus he seems unhappy with orlando - dude isnt even starting...smh. seems like the magic are trying to run and gun. nyc runs a slower pace for (marsh)melo and the triangle

what are youre thoughts (well iguess i shouldread all these posts first)

You seem concerned about his happiness. You think he will be happy either playing behind Melo or with him and never getting the ball lol? Just curious how knicks fan feel that he fits because he doesn't seem to, although that type of thing has never stopped them before.

[callmened]

im not concerned about his happiness. but i would be unhappy if i lost my job to a scrub SF (marble) after a minor injury and i had been ballin all yr. meanwhile oladpo missed almost a month and got his job back immediately (even though the french man - i forget his name - was actually playing well). id be wondering if orlando was doing this on purpose to cut my mins and prodcutivty so i would cost less. but overall im just concerned with the knicks rebuilding a team with good investments

no player will be happy playing with melo but if there are going to be exceptions - it will be players like harris look up to him.

in terms of how he fits, i see melo moving to the 4 since hes older..stretch 4. harris could play the 3. or vice versa

ill be the first to admit that the knicks have a long record of foolishly overpaying for bad players. even phil said the combo of melo & stat was "messy". but harris is good and i was wondering if orlando will let him go

[woosah]

im not concerned about his happiness. but i would be unhappy if i lost my job to a scrub SF (marble) after a minor injury and i had been ballin all yr. meanwhile oladpo missed almost a month and got his job back immediately (even though the french man - i forget his name - was actually playing well). id be wondering if orlando was doing this on purpose to cut my mins and prodcutivty so i would cost less. but overall im just concerned with the knicks rebuilding a team with good investments

no player will be happy playing with melo but if there are going to be exceptions - it will be players like harris look up to him.

in terms of how he fits, i see melo moving to the 4 since hes older..stretch 4. harris could play the 3. or vice versa

ill be the first to admit that the knicks have a long record of foolishly overpaying for bad players. even phil said the combo of melo & stat was "messy". but harris is good and i was wondering if orlando will let him go

lol.
I don't think you watch Tobes play by your answer. Thanks though.

[Skin]

i think "skin" made a great point on why harris has been benched - control the market by controlling his mins/stats. thats way teams wont be impressed and they wont offer him much. that tells me orlando HOPES to keep harris but not at a high price. well youre messing with the wrong team. lol. the knicks will overspend on AWFUL backup players let alone good ones with potential. i fully expect the knicks to (foolishly) offer him the max (hes good but he aint that good). the knicks will strike out on gasol, alridge, dragic and others. theyll panic by offering at least 20mill to harris. i dont think orlando will match that

I'm glad you got the point I was making. Great to hear from a Knicks fan regarding Harris. I can understand the sentimental acquisition that Harris would be for the Knicks, but don't you think that factor is more of a "feel good" story than an actual reason why the Knicks would go for him?

I would think the bottom line is you want to build a winner. With Melo as your centerpiece, I can't understand how Harris would fit next to him... since they play the same position. Would it really be worth paying the max to a guy who plays the same position as Melo and has the same defensive weaknesses there and the same propensity to shoot the ball?

The other question is... Are you expecting Phil Jackson to frivolously spend money the same way the old Knicks did? Overpaying guys who didn't deserve it? Or are you thinking Phil will change the reputation and spending philosophy for the Knicks?

Having said that... even if Harris received the max, I'd put the odds at 80% that the Magic would match. I don't see the Magic losing him for nothing. They'll probably match to retain his asset and then trade him if things don't work out OR they pull off a sign and trade at the time that would bring back a fair return. I'd increase the odds to 90% if that max offer was coming from the Knicks because you simply don't have assets that would be good enough to want to do a S&T.

There is still a chance Harris could be traded before the season's trade deadline. If the Knicks are interested enough to give him the max, would they be willing to do this deal for Harris?

- Right to swap 1st rounders in 2015. If the swap is not made, then the option will exist until 2017. If by 2017, the swap is not made, then the Knicks will owe 2 2nd rounders to the Magic.
- Jose Calderon
- Cleanthony Early

[callmened]

[/quote] lol. I don't think you watch Tobes play by your answer. Thanks though.[/quote]

i dont watch him play much DUH...im in nyc. lol. thats why i came to the magic site to ask. lol

[callmened]

i think "skin" made a great point on why harris has been benched - control the market by controlling his mins/stats. thats way teams wont be impressed and they wont offer him much. that tells me orlando HOPES to keep harris but not at a high price. well youre messing with the wrong team. lol. the knicks will overspend on AWFUL backup players let alone good ones with potential. i fully expect the knicks to (foolishly) offer him the max (hes good but he aint that good). the knicks will strike out on gasol, alridge, dragic and others. theyll panic by offering at least 20mill to harris. i dont think orlando will match that

I'm glad you got the point I was making. Great to hear from a Knicks fan regarding Harris. I can understand the sentimental acquisition that Harris would be for the Knicks, but don't you think that factor is more of a "feel good" story than an actual reason why the Knicks would go for him?

I would think the bottom line is you want to build a winner. With Melo as your centerpiece, I can't understand how Harris would fit next to him... since they play the same position. Would it really be worth paying the max to a guy who plays the same position as Melo and has the same defensive weaknesses there and the same propensity to shoot the ball?

The other question is... Are you expecting Phil Jackson to frivolously spend money the same way the old Knicks did? Overpaying guys who didn't deserve it? Or are you thinking Phil will change the reputation and spending philosophy for the Knicks?

Having said that... even if Harris received the max, I'd put the odds at 80% that the Magic would match. I don't see the Magic losing him for nothing. They'll probably match to retain his asset and then trade him if things don't work out OR they pull off a sign and trade at the time that would bring back a fair return. I'd increase the odds to 90% if that max offer was coming from the Knicks because you simply don't have assets that would be good enough to want to do a S&T.

There is still a chance Harris could be traded before the season's trade deadline. If the Knicks are interested enough to give him the max, would they be willing to do this deal for Harris?

- Right to swap 1st rounders in 2015. If the swap is not made, then the option will exist until 2017. If by 2017, the swap is not made, then the Knicks will owe 2 2nd rounders to the Magic.
- Jose Calderon
- Cleanthony Early

theres no sentimental issue from the knicks end. i just know that he grew up a knicks fan in long island. he might sign there for sentimental reasons.

i hope phil doesnt overspend but dolan will pressure him to. this will be phils first TRUE test

i came here to get a pulse of what was happening with harris. i see a talented player who isnt even starting. so i assumed that the magic had no future interest in him. thats why i came here to find out

trading with the knicks is useless - we have no value unless you like expiring contracts or timmy "no d" hardaway