Elf traded to Phoenix for second rounder

[OrlChamps2030]

I swear, I've never seen a player shat on more than Elfrid after being traded. Even on XM today the false narrative that we chose Elfrid over Oladipo was being used to crap on the organization.

I’m not sure why you continue to deny this when Elfrid was clearly a factor in the decision to trade Oladipo. It was talked about at the time. Fournier was seen as cheaper and a better fit next to Payton. Hennigan tripled down on him. That’s not a false narrative.

Anyways, just realized yesterday, wouldn’t we have Phillys first round pick this year if it wasn’t for the Elfrid trade? Hennigan really put all his eggs in that basket

Elfrid was part of the reason Dipo was traded. Not the only reason but his presence was a factor, denying that it did not is ridiculous.

Rob was enamored with Elfrid. Skiles quit early, again Elf was not the only reason, but he was a factor because Rob was enamored with Elf.

Also while we technically gave up the Philly pick, Philly was so bad for so long it would have been 2nd rounders for us, plus they still owed Miami a pick and they had priority over us. I remember thinking on draft night that this Elf kid better be good because we gave up assets to move up 2 spots. Hindsight it was a bad move.

I am pretty sure I read under the conveyance language Phillys top 8 protected pick would have gone to us this season. Could have had another first rounder in the 10-15 range. Pretty costly to move up one spot in the draft

[Xatticus]

I'm not irate that Payton is gone. I have felt compelled to defend him for a long time and I fully expect him to do well now that he is gone, but I had already resigned myself to his departure. I expected it.

What has me genuinely irritated is watching last night's game and realizing where we are at present. We are so bereft of talent right now that it's difficult for me to envision garnering any enjoyment from watching the crap product we are putting out there. Ordinarily, when you suck as thoroughly as we do right now, there are at least some reasons for optimism: youth, development, draft picks.

Our roster is comprised almost exclusively of journeymen try-hards that lack the talent required to succeed in the NBA. Another deadline has passed. The average age of our roster got a little older with Payton's departure. I'm going to get to watch the vaunted two-man game return while our lottery odds dwindle. We have precious little youth. We have no direction. We are a ******* mess.

[GameOver25]

I'm not irate that Payton is gone. I have felt compelled to defend him for a long time and I fully expect him to do well now that he is gone, but I had already resigned myself to his departure. I expected it.

What has me genuinely irritated is watching last night's game and realizing where we are at present. We are so bereft of talent right now that it's difficult for me to envision garnering any enjoyment from watching the crap product we are putting out there. Ordinarily, when you suck as thoroughly as we do right now, there are at least some reasons for optimism: youth, development, draft picks.

Our roster is comprised almost exclusively of journeymen try-hards that lack the talent required to succeed in the NBA. Another deadline has passed. The average age of our roster got a little older with Payton's departure. I'm going to get to watch the vaunted two-man game return while our lottery odds dwindle. We have precious little youth. We have no direction. We are a ******* mess.

What's frustrating with all of it, upper mgmt seems to have their head in the clouds. I mean this organization is a dumpster right now and just listening to guys like Dante, David, Jeff, etc. All is well and good. Just a bunch of yes-man and corporate BS. They don't want to commit to anything, just continue to suck the life out of the fans who really care.

[basketballRob]

2nd round pick right now is slotted at 36.

Magic will have top 5 hopefully, 33 and 35 picks

We'll probably trade that pick for future cash considerations.

[Orium]

Hell yes! I can start watching games again! I don't mind the losing, but seeing our perceived future starters play with no heart has been unbearable. One of the major culprits is now gone!

[GatorbaitDD]

The team's chemistry was noticeably better yesterday on the bench. Coincidence I think not. Addition by subtraction. Best of luck to Payton, I hope he finds success. It wasn't happening here though.

[Skybox]

Of all of Payton's faults, I never would've guessed he contributed to the chemistry mess we are...but, we'll see. Plenty of basketball reasons he was a problem, but didn't seem like a chemistry issue...On the other hand, these same losers played unbelievably well when he was out and haven't since...Best wishes EP, let's go Magic!

[Orange Ave.]

I hope we never "forget reasons" why we let Elfrid get away. So let's document it now. If Elfrid becomes league MVP, I will not feel bad about trading him yesterday for a second rounder BECAUSE:

He has led our team through it's worst 4 years in franchise history. His sample size has been huge, he has been given every opportunity and there is NO DATA that this management could hang its hat on to suggest that anything would be different with Elfrid in the future.

We could be dead wrong, but this is not a player we gave up on like Oladipo. Elfrid's market value being a 2nd rounder was not determined by our management, it was determined by Elfrid.

His "huge sample size" is like, just 50 games more than Oladipo when we let him go.

1. I guess you are another one of those who believe the PG has to be the "leader". Therefore, it was Elfrid who "led our team through it's worse 4 years". It couldn't be the established players who were already here when he joined and have remained thoughout the worst 4 years? Lol. But nah, it's all on him. All PG's are automatically the team's leaders. Ask MJ. Ask Kobe.

Both Oladipo and and Elfrid were traded away as 23 yo. Dipo took an additional year and experience with Russ to develop into what we see today. 2. We absolutely 'gave up' on Elfrid, just like we "gave up" on Mario. Whether or not he becomes another Oladipo is irrelevant.

1. Nope. Maybe we misunderstand each other on what leader means. For that I apologize. If Payton did not have the ball in his hands to create for others, then we were mostly playing 4 on 5 on offense. I don't think you believe putting Payton next to a ball dominant Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant would suddenly make him an All-Star. That's not his game. So we're back to Payton running our offense (because that is maximizing his skills) and if you want to split semantics, that is, to me, the leader on the floor. DJ Augustine can be plugged into a triangle offense next to a player you define as a "leader" (30ppg Hall of Famer), while Elfrid could not be plugged into that type of offense. I would argue in DJ would not be a "Floor General" whereas Payton is.
And I never said it was all on him. We don't need to make Payton more of a victim to defend him, we can just use the dispassionate facts.
2. Agreed, we absolutely did give up on Elfrid (and Oladipo). I'm saying there was no reason to give up on Oladipo at the time and there is every reason to give up on Elfrid now. Noone can predict the future, but you use 4 years of data in hand to make the best decision possible. Is resigning Elfrid Payton for a 5th, 6th, 7th and maybe 8th year really the objectively right play as a GM? 2nd most exciting passer in franchise history, hands down. The game has changed so what else does he bring to the table? At best, 30 other GM's didn't think he was worth more than a 2nd rounder, so what information do we have that they aren't aware of?

[Skin]

I just got scoops from a fly on the wall...

----------------------------------------

Weltman: "Hey Ham, Perry is asking for Elf. What should we ask for?"

Hammond: "Tell him we want Ntksilasknlkslkawhateverthef*** or screw off!"

Read on Twitter

Weltman: "Geez, loose lips in NY! Twitterworld got word before I could even finish my morning poop!"

Hammond: "Yeah, well NY isn't a threat to take Trae, so the asking price for Elf is going to be high."

Weltman: "Ooooohhhh I see where you're getting at.... We need to eliminate our competition... Time to morph into Mr. Burns!"



Hammond: "Now you get it... Look at the teams who could be our potential competition for Trae and give 'em a call."

Mr. Burns: "EXXXXXXCELLENT....."

Hammond: "Kings have Fox. Mavs have Smith. Grizz have Conley. Hawks have Schroeder. Nets have Russell. That leaves the Suns and Bulls."

*** Weltman dials up Bulls GM, Gar Forman ***

Mr. Burns: "Hey Gar, would you be interested in Elfrid Pa

*** Phone upbruptly hangs up ***

Mr. Burns: "Twittersverse is killin' us! Everyone must think our asking price for players is crazy high!"

Hammond: "Yeah, well you better figure something out because I'm letting Elf walk this summer. Call the Suns, they have a young GM who I think you can swindle if you play your cards right."

*** Weltman dials up Suns GM, Ryan McDonough ***



McDonough: "Welty! It's you again... How are ya buddy boy?"

Mr. Burns: "Hey Ryan, times runnin' out! I'll take your offer of Josh Jackson and

McDonough: "Deals off the table Welty! You had your chance. Aaron Gordon is hurt a-gain..."

Mr. Burns: "Still want Payton?"

McDonough: "I've heard the asking price... No way."

Mr. Burns: "I'll take your 2nd."

*** McDonough is wondering WTF... something is fishy... that is way cheaper than Frank Ntkilhansdfhawhatverthef***

Mr. Burns: "You still there Ryan???"

McDonough (in his best "I'm smarter than you" voice): "There's 15 min left on the trade deadline clock. I'll give you my worst 2nd rounder and that's the best you'll get."

*** Weltman turns to Hammond in the background **

Hammond whispers: "Send in the Trojan Horse."

Mr. Burns: "Dang! You drive a hard bargain Ryan... but I guess you've got yourself a deal. Elfrid is yours."

*** 10 min before the end of the trade deadline - crickets still chirping in O-Town ***

Read on Twitter

McDonough: "Deal Welty!" *** Speed dials Woj ***

Read on Twitter

Woj: *** fist pump ***

Denton: "FML"

Suns fans: "That's all it took?"



Magic fans:



Hammond: "Trae is ours."



Weltman:

Watch on YouTube

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The team's chemistry was noticeably better yesterday on the bench. Coincidence I think not. Addition by subtraction. Best of luck to Payton, I hope he finds success. It wasn't happening here though.

no come on now.. the chemistry was better because every other player that didn't get traded was able to take a deep breath and focus on basketball.. We have to take a step back and see they're still humans, the pressure of seeing your name in trade rumors and possibly having to move quickly and uproot family is stressful.

[Catledge]

It's weird. And his haters take it so personally too. Like they DESPISE anybody that says anything good about him I've never been more hated in my life than I have been the past couple of years. It's crazy.

FWIW, I have literally the exact same opinion of the way you have responded to reasonably critical posts about Payton since his rookie year, posts that seem only more reasonable with greater hindsight.

But it's all under the bridge now. Go Magic.

[ORL_on_FIRE]

Usually when a team shakes things up the guys still on the team get a new found sense of urgency to play hard.... initially that is. It’ll level out again.

Just like any job when a new opportunity presents itself.

[TreasureCoast]

We will miss Young by one pick and if we get him he will be a bust and the pick right before ours will transcend to super-stardom , this is Orlando guys.

[GA34]

Tatum , Saric and Willy Hengomez for a 2nd rounder in 2018. Well played Magic great work with that asset management once again

[SOUL]

Tatum , Saric and Willy Hengomez for a 2nd rounder in 2018. Well played Magic great work with that asset management once again

I don't agree with the trade, but people keep misunderstanding the trade protections. We did not give up Tatum, Fox, or whoever people are saying we did to get Payton. It was two 2nd rounders.

[npiper17]

Tatum , Saric and Willy Hengomez for a 2nd rounder in 2018. Well played Magic great work with that asset management once again

I don't agree with the trade, but people keep misunderstanding the trade protections. We did not give up Tatum, Fox, or whoever people are saying we did to get Payton. It was two 2nd rounders.

Too true. All it takes is a little research but it’s easier to drop a tweet soundbite than do that.

[npiper17]

I'm not irate that Payton is gone. I have felt compelled to defend him for a long time and I fully expect him to do well now that he is gone, but I had already resigned myself to his departure. I expected it.

What has me genuinely irritated is watching last night's game and realizing where we are at present. We are so bereft of talent right now that it's difficult for me to envision garnering any enjoyment from watching the crap product we are putting out there. Ordinarily, when you suck as thoroughly as we do right now, there are at least some reasons for optimism: youth, development, draft picks.

Our roster is comprised almost exclusively of journeymen try-hards that lack the talent required to succeed in the NBA. Another deadline has passed. The average age of our roster got a little older with Payton's departure. I'm going to get to watch the vaunted two-man game return while our lottery odds dwindle. We have precious little youth. We have no direction. We are a ******* mess.

Whilst I agree with some of what you’re saying, I think you’re painting a slightly negative picture.

Our best young players are injured which means yes, you won’t see them play now, but it’s not like they’re not on the roster.

Another positive this season is the development of Khem Birch - whilst not a game changer, I’ve long argued that one of the main failures of the Hennigan era was its failure to find a serviceable NBA player in the dleague (and keeping them - I’m not counting Dedmon since he wasn’t let go for a worse player at $16m more) despite five years of being terrible.

The trade of Payton was basically a case of getting something before losing an asset for nothing. Would you have traded Payton for a Wes Iwundu level player from another team? Because I would have and that’s exactly what that second round pick could bring us next draft.

Completely agree that the current state of things isn’t good but as I’ve said elsewhere, I’m going to give Weltman / Hammond the same chance that Hennigan got.

[MagicStarwipe]

It's weird. And his haters take it so personally too. Like they DESPISE anybody that says anything good about him I've never been more hated in my life than I have been the past couple of years. It's crazy.

FWIW, I have literally the exact same opinion of the way you have responded to reasonably critical posts about Payton since his rookie year, posts that seem only more reasonable with greater hindsight.

But it's all under the bridge now. Go Magic.

I'd ask you to pull up these posts, but you're right it doesn't really matter anymore. I'll just say there are a lot of hypocrites on this board (not referencing you).

[Skin]

Tatum , Saric and Willy Hengomez for a 2nd rounder in 2018. Well played Magic great work with that asset management once again

I don't agree with the trade, but people keep misunderstanding the trade protections. We did not give up Tatum, Fox, or whoever people are saying we did to get Payton. It was two 2nd rounders.

I give you credit SOUL. As Elfrid's #1 fan, I thought we might have to send out the search patrol to help look for your remains.

You've been stable as an ox. Good on you.

When they trade AG this offseason, I'm going shopping for a black trenchcoat.

[ORL_on_FIRE]

Tatum , Saric and Willy Hengomez for a 2nd rounder in 2018. Well played Magic great work with that asset management once again

I don't agree with the trade, but people keep misunderstanding the trade protections. We did not give up Tatum, Fox, or whoever people are saying we did to get Payton. It was two 2nd rounders.

I give you credit SOUL. As Elfrid's #1 fan, I thought we might have to send out the search patrol to help look for your remains.

You've been stable as an ox. Good on you.

When they trade AG this offseason, I'm going shopping for a black trenchcoat.

Shout out to SOUL tho for hooking up Phoenix fans with that super sweet Elfrid Payton starter pack. What a nice guy.