Moderators: Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior, UCFJayBird, UCF, Knightro
Residual-Heat wrote:Reddit Magic board is horrible. I remember last offseason everyone was convinced Fultz-Suggs would be the starting backcourt. Argued with a lot of people that it wouldnt work and got downvoted to hell LOL.
pepe1991 wrote:Residual-Heat wrote:Reddit Magic board is horrible. I remember last offseason everyone was convinced Fultz-Suggs would be the starting backcourt. Argued with a lot of people that it wouldnt work and got downvoted to hell LOL.
Bol better than Victor thing was real deal there
Knightro wrote:J the Drafter wrote:Dual-PG lineup—two point guards on the floor together. Teams have done it before—the Magic have done it before—and the Magic won’t surrender size at the guard spots except when Cole is in. The alternative is to value fit so highly that we give away at least one capable player because we’re not creative enough to find a way to play them together.
Dual PG lineups only work when one or both players can shoot well enough and are generally comfortable enough to play off the ball.
The Fultz/Cole pairing last year was horrible fwiw. Neither guy is good without the ball in his hands.
I'm onboard with this as my initial baseline hope, too.SOUL wrote:Anyway, my hope is that AB + Suggs becomes the backcourt of the future.. if they get a semblance of a shot that combination could be insane.
Bensational wrote:For me, if we run the backcourt out as is including bringing Harris back, I’m looking for:
A) is Black ready to run an offense? How versatile is he - can he play point forward in certain lineups?
B) what’s Fultz’s best game? He’s on the clock to show the best he can bring. The bar for him to be in consideration for extension is he has to become a bigger scorer in to 20ppg range whilst remaining efficient, doing so with decent volume from 3 and the FT line. Clearly he has to be a fit with Paolo and Franz too, and we need to make the playoffs.
C) For Cole I want to see increased efficiency. Keep being a microwave scorer.
D) For Suggs I think he has to look at the landscape and really work on becoming a great 3&D SG, and I think he’ll do it and eventually supplant Harris (if not maybe from day 1).
We’d have enough info by trade deadline to know if someone wasn’t in the long term picture. But if the team is clicking I could see WeHam delaying making moves and letting it play out in the off-season.
Bensational wrote:For me, if we run the backcourt out as is including bringing Harris back, I’m looking for:
A) is Black ready to run an offense? How versatile is he - can he play point forward in certain lineups?
B) what’s Fultz’s best game? He’s on the clock to show the best he can bring. The bar for him to be in consideration for extension is he has to become a bigger scorer in to 20ppg range whilst remaining efficient, doing so with decent volume from 3 and the FT line. Clearly he has to be a fit with Paolo and Franz too, and we need to make the playoffs.
C) For Cole I want to see increased efficiency. Keep being a microwave scorer.
D) For Suggs I think he has to look at the landscape and really work on becoming a great 3&D SG, and I think he’ll do it and eventually supplant Harris (if not maybe from day 1).
We’d have enough info by trade deadline to know if someone wasn’t in the long term picture. But if the team is clicking I could see WeHam delaying making moves and letting it play out in the off-season.
Bensational wrote:For me, if we run the backcourt out as is including bringing Harris back, I’m looking for:
A) is Black ready to run an offense? How versatile is he - can he play point forward in certain lineups?
B) what’s Fultz’s best game? He’s on the clock to show the best he can bring. The bar for him to be in consideration for extension is he has to become a bigger scorer in to 20ppg range whilst remaining efficient, doing so with decent volume from 3 and the FT line. Clearly he has to be a fit with Paolo and Franz too, and we need to make the playoffs.
C) For Cole I want to see increased efficiency. Keep being a microwave scorer.
D) For Suggs I think he has to look at the landscape and really work on becoming a great 3&D SG, and I think he’ll do it and eventually supplant Harris (if not maybe from day 1).
We’d have enough info by trade deadline to know if someone wasn’t in the long term picture. But if the team is clicking I could see WeHam delaying making moves and letting it play out in the off-season.
Knightro wrote:Bensational wrote:For me, if we run the backcourt out as is including bringing Harris back, I’m looking for:
A) is Black ready to run an offense? How versatile is he - can he play point forward in certain lineups?
B) what’s Fultz’s best game? He’s on the clock to show the best he can bring. The bar for him to be in consideration for extension is he has to become a bigger scorer in to 20ppg range whilst remaining efficient, doing so with decent volume from 3 and the FT line. Clearly he has to be a fit with Paolo and Franz too, and we need to make the playoffs.
C) For Cole I want to see increased efficiency. Keep being a microwave scorer.
D) For Suggs I think he has to look at the landscape and really work on becoming a great 3&D SG, and I think he’ll do it and eventually supplant Harris (if not maybe from day 1).
We’d have enough info by trade deadline to know if someone wasn’t in the long term picture. But if the team is clicking I could see WeHam delaying making moves and letting it play out in the off-season.
A - Black playing forward is
B - I will bet my house that Markelle Fultz does not average 17 PPG next season, much less 20 PPG or anything close to it
C - Cole might not even be here in a week
D - Ok I agree with this one
Residual-Heat wrote:Good news about the potential Black-Suggs pairing is that Black is probably already a better 3 pt shooter than Fultz, and Suggs actually wasnt terrible as a floor spacer this season shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 28% for Fultz who took half as many shots). Not that I want Black and Suggs to start day 1, but there's a chance it could work long term..
RichCollab wrote:Residual-Heat wrote:Good news about the potential Black-Suggs pairing is that Black is probably already a better 3 pt shooter than Fultz, and Suggs actually wasnt terrible as a floor spacer this season shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 28% for Fultz who took half as many shots). Not that I want Black and Suggs to start day 1, but there's a chance it could work long term..
Fultz will shot more and have a better 3pt% than Black this season.
I've never seen Fultz look like this in practice.RichCollab wrote:Residual-Heat wrote:Good news about the potential Black-Suggs pairing is that Black is probably already a better 3 pt shooter than Fultz, and Suggs actually wasnt terrible as a floor spacer this season shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 28% for Fultz who took half as many shots). Not that I want Black and Suggs to start day 1, but there's a chance it could work long term..
Fultz will shot more and have a better 3pt% than Black this season.
Residual-Heat wrote:Good news about the potential Black-Suggs pairing is that Black is probably already a better 3 pt shooter than Fultz, and Suggs actually wasnt terrible as a floor spacer this season shooting 35% on catch and shoot 3s (compared to 28% for Fultz who took half as many shots). Not that I want Black and Suggs to start day 1, but there's a chance it could work long term..
pepe1991 wrote:Jalen Suggs didn't shoot 35% for 3 but 32,7%, witch is 3% below league's average. Cumulative to rookie year, he is now 27% three point shooter. That's far cry from people here talking about 38-40%. His FTs give away his actual ability to shoot. It's below average.
He had months when his shot was wet, but also had months where over 14 games streach he shot 23% for 3 in middle of a season. He even played himself basically out of rotation at one point.
You can't put him in starting lineup, especially with Fultz nor Black and act like he is your floor spacer just because you want him to be one and because he failed as PG prospect that everybody hoped him to be.
As far as Black goes, there is no doubt in my mind he will suck as shooter in nba as a rookie. It wasn't just that he was bad shooter for 3, he was bad shooter from everywhere, as his jumpshot is very funky, and he hardly jumps- on jump-shot.
Guy shot 32% from mid range. And no empty-gym-shooting in offseason will change fact that he will be overwhealmed in nba as shooter once 6'7 , 40 inch vertical guy start to run in his direction to contest shots he isn't comfortable taking, let alone making, from distance he never had to shoot before.
People love to bring Josh Giddey, but than tend to forget , or simply never watch OKC to understand dynamic of their team. When OKC needs bucket, they allow Giddey to iniciate but he, by default, gives ball at some point to SGA or in lesser degree Jalen WIlliams. Magic have nobody who is even 70% as elite as SGA is to create something out of nothing. And for damn sure that guy ain't Suggs. SGA comes off 31 ppg season as allstar and probably one of best SGs NBA has. (63% TS, 7,3 BPM, just superstar numbers). Magic 2 guards combined didn't average 30 ppg in any combination ( needless to say nowhere near his efficiency as well).
There is no future for Magic with Fultz, Suggs, Black all being here in year or two.
Fultz thing runned it's course. That story goes nowhere. He is playing 7th year. Injury prone, broken jumpshot, no desire nor ability to shoot or steach floor. I don't need to see teams abusing us in playoffs due his inability to create space to know that story has no happy ending. I've seen enough basketball in my life to know how that story ends before paying him money to watch him ( and team because of him ) flop in playoffs.
Suggs thing. I'll give another year, but i'm 99,98% trading him next year for player who fits Banchero and Franz and hopefully Black for team's sucess going forward. We tried, we gave up 5th pick for PG of future. He can't play PG because he can't dribble , shoot nor play under any control. I don't need homless Marcus Smart on my roster, before any exstension talks, just trade him for player that fits your team. Rim protecting center, shooting guard, backup point guard, combo guard, whatever it's needed at that point and going forward.
Honeymoon stage of " i love everybody" is over. It's time to make playoffs and make hard decisions. Banchero will probably fight for allstar game next year, Franz might put 20 ppg and case his designed max as well. They are knocking on a doors. You better be ready to make roster fit them, instad of running team to a ground to feel better about draft busts.
In all that it's lost that Cole is low key only modern guard Magic have, and he will probably be lost because others had bigger Front Office investments in them.
Magic are 17-9 in games Cole scores at least 15 points.
Magic are 7-15 in gamesm where he scores less than 10.
Maybe, just maybe it has to do with fact he is only guard Magic have that can do all things: pass, beat man off dribble, shoot, and force teams from not clogging paint?
But yea, let's get rid of him, he can shoot, it's clear he doesn't fit