Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread

[Bensational]

I'm not saying that he cant be a guy that can create his own shot down the road. Orlando is asking him to be the guy in year two with defenses heavily schemed against him due to the ineffectiveness of roster construction.

It's not that he's reliant on a PG that can do those things... It's that his game does not compliment the rest of the roster comparatively to what he's being asked to do on his development curve. That is much different than a guy like Sharpe coming in and jacking up 3's with a wide open court. It requires an actual offense.

Lead options are going to face defenses that scheme for them. The definition of him being a #1 option means he has to be able to create the offense himself, and adapt when defenses adapt. I mean, who does his game actually compliment and improve?

If you reduce Paolo to a rim rolling big then he becomes a much less significant factor and less of a focal point worth changing the roster for. If these first 4 games have shown anything it’s that Franz is the guy we should be focused on building around, and there are better fits for him than Paolo.

The bigger point is that Paolo’s offense is predictable right now and he’s unable to do anything in the paint for the reasons outlined. He needs to develop a shot.

One of his strengths is passing. Is he best utilizing that ability on this roster? Not really. Right now he’s settling on drawing contact inside against multiple defenders, which is fine if you get to the line and hit free throws. He isn’t doing either of those things effectively.

Having a point guard makes these things easier, which is what the FO and Mosley should be doing in year 2 of his development - not more difficult.

So what do you want him to do? He can’t create, he can’t shoot, can’t hit his FTs and he doesn’t pass anywhere near enough to make up for his misses. Why are we making this a focal point? I’ve said it before, if a double team from Fred Van Vleet or Scoot Henderson has completely shut down Paolo’s ability to score then he isn’t passing the elite scorer test.

We should be looking for guys who will come in and feed off what Paolo does well instead of setting Paolo up to feed off others.

[MasterGMer]

I disagree with some of your statement here. Many of the Logics are simple, Paolo and Franz need to be dominate with the ball and score where PG and SG provide spacing and shooting.

But the problem right now, the most urgent problem, is Franz and Paolo are struggling creating offense for themselves. Paolo is struggling and Franz didn't get that going as much either. So the spacing part is nonexistent.

The problem right now is to have a core of the offense who can actually operate in 4th Q or clutch times. We do not have that.

On the contrary, Suggs is a winning player. His shooting is much improved and he is a dog on defense which helps winning. It is not who starts in a game it is who finishes. If I were Mosley, I'd play Cole a lot more and put Fultz in in the 4th Q to lead the offense like he did against Lakers.

Of course, in the world of basketball, there are a lot of Xs and Os plus Basketball analytics to judge a roster. But those are not perfect. I trust the intuitive judgement of mine and many others. We need to get Paolo and Franz going before we talk about spacing from our guards

[yoyojw17]

I disagree with some of your statement here. Many of the Logics are simple, Paolo and Franz need to be dominate with the ball and score where PG and SG provide spacing and shooting.

But the problem right now, the most urgent problem, is Franz and Paolo are struggling creating offense for themselves. Paolo is struggling and Franz didn't get that going as much either. So the spacing part is nonexistent.

The problem right now is to have a core of the offense who can actually operate in 4th Q or clutch times. We do not have that.

On the contrary, Suggs is a winning player. His shooting is much improved and he is a dog on defense which helps winning. It is not who starts in a game it is who finishes. If I were Mosley, I'd play Cole a lot more and put Fultz in in the 4th Q to lead the offense like he did against Lakers.

Of course, in the world of basketball, there are a lot of Xs and Os plus Basketball analytics to judge a roster. But those are not perfect. I trust the intuitive judgement of mine and many others. We need to get Paolo and Franz going before we talk about spacing from our guards

Yes... spacing is something that will make any team better. But .... if Franz and Paolo are supposed to be star and all star type levels.... I hope they show the ability to make a lot more of the shots that I'm seeing them take some of which I see and I'm like... "you could have gotten that one" lol. Needless to say .... I think they will continue to get better and start to dominate more. But hey.... till then.... get the easy buckets too on cuts and in transition, etc. The team is showing improvements but you can see some hesitation in the passing and movements at time. Last game I remember seeing Fultz go to pass the ball and either the other player is not as aggressive in their motions or Fultz was not. And this will all continue to grow as time passes buy,

[basketballRob]

I think they are prepping Black to be our future starting PG. If Fultz gets another deal, it'll likely be a short one

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Suggs makes "winning plays " on defensive and but is as much of a problem on offense as Fultz is.

I think most people simply don't understand how much of an issue it is to play offense where 3 out of 5 players don't have to be guarded outside paint.
LIke, it's not just Fultz and Suggs. Wendell isn't treated as shooter himself.

Example 1:




First possession of first game, nobody from Houston's team stands further than FT line.


Example 2:


Suggs shoots mid range, nobody covers, Wendell is at 3 point line, his guy doesn't care. ( i talked about teams not caring about mid range for longest period of time, Suggs misses shot anyway).



Example 3: Lakers game

Paolo goes left, Reaves ignores Fultz and acts as help defender. Davis turns his back to Suggs, Wendell should be rolling toward, rim instad he is walking out to corner. Paolo has in same possession: avoid Russell, avoid Reaves and shoot over Lebron. That went as well as anybody could imagine.

Second possession: Both Suggs and Fultz are defended by one person. If you stop video at exect 2:03 mark (or play it in slow motion) you will notice that FOUR Lakers players are in space between 1 meter ( 3 feet) around Banchero.

Full video [url]

Watch on YouTube

[/url]


And that brings me to biggest problem. it's not just spacing, it's fact that not a single person, including Franz is used to play off ball all that much. They simply don't have habbit of being in right position at a right time and make simple catch&shoot. Banchero traps himself into impossible situations mostly because :
a) his players never clear driving lines
2) his players never actually bother to relocate in search for better spots to be
3) his players more often than not- literally stand in his way


Now, some of blame has to go to Banchero, but if you want "new Lebron/ Giannis" you simply can't play 4 guys who have no clue what to do offball and once they DO recive the ball, it's not natural for them to actually catch- and shoot. They catch- make dribbles and search for different views.

[Skybox]

Excellent analysis. If I’m Paolo and I can see what’s going on, I’m getting more than a little frustrated with the coach and FO. Sounds selfish & entitled maybe, for a young guy…but a #1 pick needs to believe he’s a star and if he’s got the BBIQ to recognize what’s going on and how his own performance, ceiling, and brand is being limited…it might get uncomfortable

[Bensational]

Example 3: Lakers game

Paolo goes left, Reaves ignores Fultz and acts as help defender. Davis turns his back to Suggs, Wendell should be rolling toward, rim instad he is walking out to corner. Paolo has in same possession: avoid Russell, avoid Reaves and shoot over Lebron. That went as well as anybody could imagine.

Second possession: Both Suggs and Fultz are defended by one person. If you stop video at exect 2:03 mark (or play it in slow motion) you will notice that FOUR Lakers players are in space between 1 meter ( 3 feet) around Banchero.

It’s funny, because I see those situations and don’t think the spacing isn’t the problem, it’s Paolo choosing to take a shot with 4 defenders on him instead of passing out to any one of the open guys on the perimeter to keep the play alive.

And that brings me to biggest problem. it's not just spacing, it's fact that not a single person, including Franz is used to play off ball all that much. They simply don't have habbit of being in right position at a right time and make simple catch&shoot. Banchero traps himself into impossible situations mostly because :
a) his players never clear driving lines
2) his players never actually bother to relocate in search for better spots to be
3) his players more often than not- literally stand in his way

Now, some of blame has to go to Banchero, but if you want "new Lebron/ Giannis" you simply can't play 4 guys who have no clue what to do offball and once they DO recive the ball, it's not natural for them to actually catch- and shoot. They catch- make dribbles and search for different views.

Fultz, Franz and Cole haven’t had any trouble getting into the paint with the same lineups. What Paolo did above, in most cases Fultz or Franz would have passed out of it and then repositioned (they’ve both run into crowds at times this season too). Sure, it’s not pretty but stuff opens up.

And it makes it hard for the other guys to play off Paolo and run through lanes when he hasn’t created any. That’s his responsibility if he’s the primary playmaker and driving into the paint, he needs to pull defenders away to create a lane for the others to dive through. They don’t struggle finding lanes and openings as much for other players - but I fully admit they don’t run lanes like Mo Wagner or Harris who know that’s how they’re getting their buckets.

Basically, Paolo has to make smarter choices on ball, which isn’t a damning criticism.

[Skybox]

Example 3: Lakers game

Paolo goes left, Reaves ignores Fultz and acts as help defender. Davis turns his back to Suggs, Wendell should be rolling toward, rim instad he is walking out to corner. Paolo has in same possession: avoid Russell, avoid Reaves and shoot over Lebron. That went as well as anybody could imagine.

Second possession: Both Suggs and Fultz are defended by one person. If you stop video at exect 2:03 mark (or play it in slow motion) you will notice that FOUR Lakers players are in space between 1 meter ( 3 feet) around Banchero.

It’s funny, because I see those situations and don’t think the spacing isn’t the problem, it’s Paolo choosing to take a shot with 4 defenders on him instead of passing out to any one of the open guys on the perimeter to keep the play alive.



Basically, Paolo has to make smarter choices on ball, which isn’t a damning criticism.

I can't imagine how anyone in the league...anyone...warrants 4 defenders on him if he's got a single teammate who's a threat to score from where they are....kind of a "chicken and egg" logic, I guess. But if Simons or Hield or Herro is standing on the perimeter, along with Franz...there will never be "4 defenders" on Paolo.

Who should he kick it out to that isn't likely to loft it into the 4th row?

[Bensational]

Example 3: Lakers game

Paolo goes left, Reaves ignores Fultz and acts as help defender. Davis turns his back to Suggs, Wendell should be rolling toward, rim instad he is walking out to corner. Paolo has in same possession: avoid Russell, avoid Reaves and shoot over Lebron. That went as well as anybody could imagine.

Second possession: Both Suggs and Fultz are defended by one person. If you stop video at exect 2:03 mark (or play it in slow motion) you will notice that FOUR Lakers players are in space between 1 meter ( 3 feet) around Banchero.

It’s funny, because I see those situations and don’t think the spacing isn’t the problem, it’s Paolo choosing to take a shot with 4 defenders on him instead of passing out to any one of the open guys on the perimeter to keep the play alive.



Basically, Paolo has to make smarter choices on ball, which isn’t a damning criticism.

I can't imagine how anyone in the league...anyone...warrants 4 defenders on him if he's got a single teammate who's a threat to score from where they are....kind of a "chicken and egg" logic, I guess. But if Simons or Hield or Herro is standing on the perimeter, along with Franz...there will never be "4 defenders" on Paolo.

Who should he kick it out to that isn't likely to loft it into the 4th row?

Just because they catch it from the perimeter doesn’t mean they have to shoot it. You keep moving the ball around to find someone who can score in rhythm.

This is the double edge of Paolo being good at drawing contact - he might see 4 defenders in the paint as 8 sets of arms he can draw a foul from, so he might prioritise that shot over passing out to an open player even if they’re a threat like Gary Harris. And look, he’s that good at drawing fouls it’s worth considering, but it can also kill a play.

But in general, driving into a clogged paint and not passing out to open players is a bad idea. Surely we’re not disagreeing there?

[Skybox]

It’s funny, because I see those situations and don’t think the spacing isn’t the problem, it’s Paolo choosing to take a shot with 4 defenders on him instead of passing out to any one of the open guys on the perimeter to keep the play alive.



Basically, Paolo has to make smarter choices on ball, which isn’t a damning criticism.

I can't imagine how anyone in the league...anyone...warrants 4 defenders on him if he's got a single teammate who's a threat to score from where they are....kind of a "chicken and egg" logic, I guess. But if Simons or Hield or Herro is standing on the perimeter, along with Franz...there will never be "4 defenders" on Paolo.

Who should he kick it out to that isn't likely to loft it into the 4th row?

Just because they catch it from the perimeter doesn’t mean they have to shoot it. You keep moving the ball around to find someone who can score in rhythm.

This is the double edge of Paolo being good at drawing contact - he might see 4 defenders in the paint as 8 sets of arms he can draw a foul from, so he might prioritise that shot over passing out to an open player even if they’re a threat like Gary Harris. And look, he’s that good at drawing fouls it’s worth considering, but it can also kill a play.

But in general, driving into a clogged paint and not passing out to open players is a bad idea. Surely we’re not disagreeing there?

I don't disagree at all...but you've got to have someone to pass it to. You can swing it around the perimeter for 24 seconds and still not find a shooter if you're the ORL Magic. Why would swinging it encourage LAL (in this case) to close out on anyone. In this example, there's noone within 10+ feet of WCJ - who isn't our worst shooter by a long stretch. If ORL wants to play keep-away on the perimeter, teams can still just watch the shot clock and dare them...swinging the ball doesn't guarantee an open lane to the hoop without perimeter threats to open things up....they could have maintained the same defensive scheme with 4 guys and left a cherry-picker at half court, just to mock us.

[drsd]

Suggs can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring PG. Fultz can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring SG….something has to give. That something is obvious to me. Get Simons while he’s out injured, before he comes back and scores 25 ppg of empty stats and stop pretending there’s any hope for miracles. Park him in the film room, get him relocated and comfortable and let’s stop the foolishness. Paolo will become an all-star quickly with air support to clear space for him and finish his kick-outs.

To add: it is easier to get a volume shooting/scoring SG than it is a volume shooting/scoring PG. It is for this reason I think trading Suggs and resigning Fultz makes more sense than trading half the roster to upgrade Fultz.

[pepe1991]

And what's the point of Banchero's 6'10- ballhandling if he kicks ball to perimeter just to have guard catch it, and put it on the floor ,stale and allow defense to recover?

it defeats whole purpose of his existence on basketball court.

Swinging ball around and creating open looks only is useful if at the end somebody gets clean look- and make shot. if you get good looks to continue to dribble into worst situations, what's the point?

This was execlly why Westbrook- Lebron duo was so bad, they were getting good looks and there was nobody ( including them) to actually execute those good looks.
Creation needs execution in order to be useful.

[Skybox]

Suggs can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring PG. Fultz can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring SG….something has to give. That something is obvious to me. Get Simons while he’s out injured, before he comes back and scores 25 ppg of empty stats and stop pretending there’s any hope for miracles. Park him in the film room, get him relocated and comfortable and let’s stop the foolishness. Paolo will become an all-star quickly with air support to clear space for him and finish his kick-outs.

To add: it is easier to get a volume shooting/scoring SG than it is a volume shooting/scoring PG. It is for this reason I think trading Suggs and resigning Fultz makes more sense than trading half the roster to upgrade Fultz.

Who? I always say "shooting/SCORING" because I don't think a Kennard-type is enough. I think Herro would have been perfect but he's now off the market with Dame and Jrue off MIA's radar. Herro can put the ball on the floor and rack up assists. Kennard is Gary Harris, IMO. Hield is a more shot-hungry Gary Harris (without the defense). I don't consider Suggs completely untouchable, but a team that might give up a young good guard (like Simons) is probably looking for picks and cap space anyway (which we have to offer).

I could see running out the season with Fultz leading a fast-paced second unit...that might be an interesting blur against second units. But I just can't see him wasting any more of Paolo's time...at this point, I'd rather have Cole, Franz, (even)Suggs, or Black starting at PG ahead of Fultz...not because they're better today, but because they might be and we're going nowhere with Fultz/Suggs/Banchero together. Black is a big mystery at this point but he'll likely give you what Fultz does - on a rookie deal, with bigger better D, possibly racking up assists and FT's. I don't really see what the "risk" is.

Ideally, Suggs transforms (maybe painfully) into more of a PG/combo guard (Paolo & Franz are ball-movers, so it's not a traditional PG), so we could pair him with a shooting Shooting Guard - Harris for now. I agree that Suggs is kind of in limbo and hard to define, but he's just too impactful to move. Fultz is at his ceiling.

[CarraT]

Suggs can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring PG. Fultz can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring SG….something has to give. That something is obvious to me. Get Simons while he’s out injured, before he comes back and scores 25 ppg of empty stats and stop pretending there’s any hope for miracles. Park him in the film room, get him relocated and comfortable and let’s stop the foolishness. Paolo will become an all-star quickly with air support to clear space for him and finish his kick-outs.

To add: it is easier to get a volume shooting/scoring SG than it is a volume shooting/scoring PG. It is for this reason I think trading Suggs and resigning Fultz makes more sense than trading half the roster to upgrade Fultz.

We had a great 3p% SG last year starting. Thats not enough. We need elite shooting from both G positions, as we dont get it from our F or C, but still we want to retain the players there.
Suggs at least is elite at something (Defense) und provides improvement as a shooter. He´s on a rookie contract, too.
Fultz wont improve, is UFA next summer, and doesnt fit at all to our core. We need to trade him for a better fit as long as we can.

[CarraT]

We now see the reason why we should balance our roster asap. Peoble were claiming all summer that we have time and can balance the roster with shooting in the next years, because we wont compete anyway. But what they are missing is that missing spacing and unbalanced roster is preventing our core, Franz and Paolo, from improving the way they should and could!

[Skybox]

Suggs can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring PG. Fultz can only function next to a volume shooting/scoring SG….something has to give. That something is obvious to me. Get Simons while he’s out injured, before he comes back and scores 25 ppg of empty stats and stop pretending there’s any hope for miracles. Park him in the film room, get him relocated and comfortable and let’s stop the foolishness. Paolo will become an all-star quickly with air support to clear space for him and finish his kick-outs.

To add: it is easier to get a volume shooting/scoring SG than it is a volume shooting/scoring PG. It is for this reason I think trading Suggs and resigning Fultz makes more sense than trading half the roster to upgrade Fultz.

We had a great 3p% SG last year starting. Thats not enough. We need elite shooting from both G positions, as we dont get it from our F or C, but still we want to retain the players there.
Suggs at least is elite at something (Defense) und provides improvement as a shooter. He´s on a rookie contract, too.
Fultz wont improve, is UFA next summer, and doesnt fit at all to our core. We need to trade him for a better fit as long as we can.

Agree...Harris is solid but too selective a gunner when paired with a less frightening PG. He'd be fine next to a Ja/Westbrook, etc.

It's an easy position to attack, based on %...but at least Suggs will take the shots and has to be respected (a little?). Suggs could go off on any given night, his form looks good and he's certainly not shy. Whether Fultz' shooting is mental or physical is irrelevant...everyone in the NBA knows he's yippy about it and you can sag off of him. His highlight dunks are great, but they are all in transition - if we're being charitable, set him up with a fast paced second unit that suits his strengths until we inevitably part ways.

[pepe1991]

To add: it is easier to get a volume shooting/scoring SG than it is a volume shooting/scoring PG. It is for this reason I think trading Suggs and resigning Fultz makes more sense than trading half the roster to upgrade Fultz.

We had a great 3p% SG last year starting. Thats not enough. We need elite shooting from both G positions, as we dont get it from our F or C, but still we want to retain the players there.
Suggs at least is elite at something (Defense) und provides improvement as a shooter. He´s on a rookie contract, too.
Fultz wont improve, is UFA next summer, and doesnt fit at all to our core. We need to trade him for a better fit as long as we can.

Agree...Harris is solid but too selective a gunner when paired with a less frightening PG. He'd be fine next to a Ja/Westbrook, etc.

It's an easy position to attack, based on %...but at least Suggs will take the shots and has to be respected (a little?). Suggs could go off on any given night, his form looks good and he's certainly not shy. Whether Fultz' shooting is mental or physical is irrelevant...everyone in the NBA knows he's yippy about it and you can sag off of him. His highlight dunks are great, but they are all in transition - if we're being charitable, set him up with a fast paced second unit that suits his strengths until we inevitably part ways.

..but at least Suggs will take the shots and has to be respected (a little?)

Not really.
20 threes taken total
9 open
11 wide open

Result: 6-20 = 30% accuracy.


For argument sake, Harris is 6-9 on wide open 3s and 3-7 on open 3s. Basically, Harris is better shooter heavily contested than Suggs wide open.

to me it's simple: either remove Fultz or Suggs from starting lineup for Cole ( for Fultz) or Harris ( for Suggs). But current rotation simply won't get a job done. You can't rely on bench to score 30 points off backcourt just because your starters can't. That's self created problem. You have problem in SL because you pick players based on subjective reasons like draft stock (Suggs) and warm fuzzy feelings in heart (Fultz) when you watch them.

[VFX]

Some of you are repeating **** regardless of if it actually makes sense or even addresses the issue at hand.

For the last time, the issue isn’t volume shooting. Gary Harris is a 3-D player that exists on the roster. We saw him in starting lineups last season and it meant nothing. This argument doesn’t even make sense with Cole and Harris on the floor in examples. Why is this?

The issue is overall floor spacing AND playmaking. Nothing is set up in the half court. There isn’t a point guard on the roster that can run simple actions with Paolo. Therefore, defenses can just stand around and wait for him to come crashing in with no worry of other options. That makes him a non factor unless he has a mismatch. Just getting better shooters on the floor solves 1 of the 2 issues.

Some of you are talking about two different issues and making it one. In regards to Paolo, nothing is easy for him on offense with the way the roster is built. It isn’t because every player isn’t a knock down shooter. That’s a separate issue. It’s because he isn’t utilized properly at all. Neither of our “point guards” run anything offensively aside from being able to score themselves in very specific ways.

In both of your examples Paolo should have shot the basketball with the defender 5-6 feet away from him at the top of the arch. Instead, he’s driving into a wall of bodies for a low % shot.

[basketballRob]

I expect Suggs 3-pt percentage to be over 35% this season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

I expect Suggs 3-pt percentage to be over 35% this season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

And Bamba to average 18-12-3