Fultz Prediction

[Knightro]

It’s not but it would be the bare minimum for this FO could do. I’d love for them to go Murray Brogdon Simmons and if they strike out on all 3 go get Tyus.

I’d rather wait and chase Conley + Monk in FA, personally. Or see what teams are blowing up then. Chances are the same names are still available and some new ones.

I’m all for moving off Fultz, but only if Black is guaranteed minutes off the bench. I like Jones, he’s a good player and would be a good addition, but if he’s gone in 3 months is that worth blocking minutes for Black?

Let’s put it this way. If Fultz was playing like Jones has played this season for Washington, not only would people not want to trade him, they’d be happy to resign him.

[Bensational]

It’s not but it would be the bare minimum for this FO could do. I’d love for them to go Murray Brogdon Simmons and if they strike out on all 3 go get Tyus.

I’d rather wait and chase Conley + Monk in FA, personally. Or see what teams are blowing up then. Chances are the same names are still available and some new ones.

I’m all for moving off Fultz, but only if Black is guaranteed minutes off the bench. I like Jones, he’s a good player and would be a good addition, but if he’s gone in 3 months is that worth blocking minutes for Black?

Let’s put it this way. If Fultz was playing like Jones has played this season for Washington, not only would people not want to trade him, they’d be happy to resign him.

Or put it this way: you want to play Tyus Jones, a guy you project to be a future backup, instead of our #6 pick.

[Knightro]

Or put it this way: you want to play Tyus Jones, a guy you project to be a future backup, instead of our #6 pick.

For the rest of this season? Yes, I would start the guy with the .600 TS% and who is leading the league in AST/TO ratio over the teenager.

Despite what you may think, I don't have real issue with Black being blocked provided the guy blocking him is actually good and contributing significantly to winning basketball games.

I'd gladly trade for Dejounte Murray right now and slot him in as the starting PG as well.

What I don't have much interest in is a guy with .458 TS% who won't attempt a 3 and isn't all that good defensively playing over Black. That is a waste of time and bothers me significantly.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I’d rather wait and chase Conley + Monk in FA, personally. Or see what teams are blowing up then. Chances are the same names are still available and some new ones.

I’m all for moving off Fultz, but only if Black is guaranteed minutes off the bench. I like Jones, he’s a good player and would be a good addition, but if he’s gone in 3 months is that worth blocking minutes for Black?

Let’s put it this way. If Fultz was playing like Jones has played this season for Washington, not only would people not want to trade him, they’d be happy to resign him.

Or put it this way: you want to play Tyus Jones, a guy you project to be a future backup, instead of our #6 pick.

Who gives a rats ass who starts. We need to add a solid PG which would help the team overall.

Fultz just needs to be gone so AB can get 10-15 minutes vs DNPs. Otherwise they’ll continue to wait and see with him.

[Bensational]

Or put it this way: you want to play Tyus Jones, a guy you project to be a future backup, instead of our #6 pick.

For the rest of this season? Yes, I would start the guy with the .600 TS% and who is leading the league in AST/TO ratio over the teenager.

Despite what you may think, I don't have real issue with Black being blocked provided the guy blocking him is actually good and contributing significantly to winning basketball games.

I'd gladly trade for Dejounte Murray right now and slot him in as the starting PG as well.

What I don't have much interest in is a guy with .458 TS% who won't attempt a 3 and isn't all that good defensively playing over Black. That is a waste of time and bothers me significantly.

We’re in agreement that Fultz shouldn’t be playing over Black. I see the merits in adding Jones, but like I said, the move wouldn’t move the needle much for team performance or rookie development in the short term so is it worth it compared to the long term benefit of giving Black more exposure now?

[Audi]

I'm no doctor, but in looking at the clip posted in this thread showing the hitch in-game, that doesn't look like a shoulder problem to me. That movement looks like something that would be harder on his shoulder than simply heaving it up in one motion with the benefit of your core and lower body. Waiting until you are coming back down to get the shot up seems like it would put a lot more pressure on your shoulders...right?!?

Shoulder in this case is that it's part of the thoracic region with the neck and shoulders being the first part of the outlet of nerve bundles coming from the spinal cord. What you are seeing with the hitch is that part of his shooting motion is causing muscles (likely in his shoulder) to cause compression/impingement on nerves running down his arm(s) and into his hand(s). The hitch we are seeing is him temporarily losing feeling (and therefore, control) of his arms/hands due to the nerve compression. You can see in the recent shot he took - he had no ability to push the ball out toward the basket at the apex of his shot motion because he didn't have the feeling to do so. Once feeling returned it was already too late and he was already on the downward motion and the shot fell short. It's gotta truly suck...just a matter of fractions of a second could spell the difference between a make and a miss.

Jeebus, you guys are blind or just wilfully ignoring what's staring at you. You're all casting around for explanations when its right in front of you.

Go watch his last postgame interview and tell me if you see anything atypical.

These explanations I’m “casting around” are my best (certainly better than anyone else’s here) interpretation of the condition we know he was ACTUALLY diagnosed with. The problems with his shooting motion are completely in line with what might be expected from neurogenic TOS, as are the past and current treatments he’s received. Meanwhile, you are “casting around” unfounded speculation based on an interview.

Look - I’m sure he’s atypical in plenty of different ways but it’s absolutely irrelevant - his atypical-ness is not what is wrong with his shot.

[zaymon]

Or put it this way: you want to play Tyus Jones, a guy you project to be a future backup, instead of our #6 pick.

For the rest of this season? Yes, I would start the guy with the .600 TS% and who is leading the league in AST/TO ratio over the teenager.

Despite what you may think, I don't have real issue with Black being blocked provided the guy blocking him is actually good and contributing significantly to winning basketball games.

I'd gladly trade for Dejounte Murray right now and slot him in as the starting PG as well.

What I don't have much interest in is a guy with .458 TS% who won't attempt a 3 and isn't all that good defensively playing over Black. That is a waste of time and bothers me significantly.

We’re in agreement that Fultz shouldn’t be playing over Black. I see the merits in adding Jones, but like I said, the move wouldn’t move the needle much for team performance or rookie development in the short term so is it worth it compared to the long term benefit of giving Black more exposure now?

I think getting Jones would move a lot of needles. We would get a starter this year and possibly a good backup next year if Black improves. Our guards would get one veteran guy who knows how to play. Right now we have only Gary, but he is not a playmaker. Our guards look lost becouse they dont have a role model, there is no one to learn from. We would also improve our chemistry. Right now this whole family talk feels like bunch of crap.
I dont think there is any more reason to talk about Fultz. He is not a basketball case anymore he is a medical case.

[Bergmaniac]

Fultz has taken a grand total of 2 shots from outside the paint since he came back. Until he is ready to take them he shouldn't be playing, period.

[Skybox]

To me, this is just a lockable concept...he's not that good when he's healthy and he's never healthy...why do we cling to things and concepts so long around here?

Keeping an "open lane" for AB is equally wishful thinking. I hope he keeps developing and surprises us - but right now he projects as a role player, not a starting PG next to Suggs-who also looks a little too much like a role player (who occasionally breaks out). Bet on Suggs, put a well-rounded scorer next to him. Cole is what he is - another role player, just on the other end of the court. Fultz is no longer worth discussing...don't rush AB beyond his Thybulle role but hope for the best. Face the reality we have on our roster.

[jezzerinho]

Shoulder in this case is that it's part of the thoracic region with the neck and shoulders being the first part of the outlet of nerve bundles coming from the spinal cord. What you are seeing with the hitch is that part of his shooting motion is causing muscles (likely in his shoulder) to cause compression/impingement on nerves running down his arm(s) and into his hand(s). The hitch we are seeing is him temporarily losing feeling (and therefore, control) of his arms/hands due to the nerve compression. You can see in the recent shot he took - he had no ability to push the ball out toward the basket at the apex of his shot motion because he didn't have the feeling to do so. Once feeling returned it was already too late and he was already on the downward motion and the shot fell short. It's gotta truly suck...just a matter of fractions of a second could spell the difference between a make and a miss.

Jeebus, you guys are blind or just wilfully ignoring what's staring at you. You're all casting around for explanations when its right in front of you.

Go watch his last postgame interview and tell me if you see anything atypical.

These explanations I’m “casting around” are my best (certainly better than anyone else’s here) interpretation of the condition we know he was ACTUALLY diagnosed with. The problems with his shooting motion are completely in line with what might be expected from neurogenic TOS, as are the past and current treatments he’s received. Meanwhile, you are “casting around” unfounded speculation based on an interview.

Look - I’m sure he’s atypical in plenty of different ways but it’s absolutely irrelevant - his atypical-ness is not what is wrong with his shot.

Based on an Interview???!!! Please, be real.

Markelle Fultz suffers from uncontrolled physical tics. That's not an opinion.

He's had them for years. That's also not an opinion.

His injuries and drops in playing time and/or shooting ability have tended to coincide with more occasions where he "tics" in public appearances, also where the tics tend to be more exaggerated. Thats the current situation. Again not opinion.

Is the injury absence really a cover for a resurgence of his tics or do his tics surface when he's out injured? That's where I am speculating. The former seems much more logical than the latter. I can't obviously say for sure.

It sure seems that way, given eruptions of his tics tend to coincide with both absences and drops in shooting form. His current shooting motion with a huge hitch tends to add credence to this conclusion.

[p0peye]

I have been very sarcastical lately on Fultz, a bit driven by few silly posts from folk defending his oncourt performance, but I will be serious in this post.

I am very happy we traded for Markelle. I think we have handled his situation perfectly, giving him ample time and releasing him of any kind of pressure or expectations until he felt ready to play. We, as team and fans, have done everything we can to ensure Markelle is set on a best possible path for success.

At the end, it didn't work. It is not Markelle's fault and it is not teams fault. Sometimes, that's just the way cookie crumbles. Only frustration I feel is because in my opinion we crossed that point a year and a half ago. If we didn't get Franz and Paolo in mean time, I wouldn't care that we have him on the roster. But we did and we need that 17M of cap space to be helping them win games. We learned from past rebuilds and not making same mistakes. We want to develop winners and he is a dead weight.

[Audi]

Markelle Fultz suffers from uncontrolled physical tics. That's not an opinion.

“Uncontrollable physical tics” don’t repeatedly manifest at a particular part of a particular motion. You want to see a basketball player with uncontrollable physical tics? Go watch replays of Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf, who had Tourette Syndrome. Fultz is struggling to complete his shooting motions on FTs, Abdul-Rauf was a career 90% FT shooter with one of the best FT shooting % seasons in NBA history.

Again - whatever you think you are unveiling here is irrelevant. He could be ticking and growling during interviews too and it wouldn’t matter because *it’s not what’s wrong with his shot* (which is the only thing of concern to us as fans).

[Ugly0598]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

[Knightro]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

[p0peye]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

[eyriq]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

This

[pepe1991]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

So, for $5M a year?
He will be 7 years pro as free agent, vet minimum for such player will be over $2,5M

for that he can go and sit on bench of some Bucks/Nuggets and win a title.


What would purpose of that re-sign be?
Black would continue to play anything but PG.
Cole would still be needed as bench scorer.
Suggs would still be incapable of playing PG.
And you would still need starting level PG


I reached point where i just feel bad about Fultz so i don't want to engage into debates about him nor say anything negative. But if you have to decide between $5M a year on non contender, vs at least $3M a year on contender, why would you choose Magic?

If i'm some Knicks team, i would rather have him as 10th man than Flynn or Achuiwa ,both make +$3,5M ( hell, Achuiwa makes near $4,5 while being one of least fundamentally sounded/talentd basketball players i ever watched in nba. ).

[pinoynurse]

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

This

Dont even want him on the on team. He has a “ben simmons” like approach towards 3pt shooting/ft shooting/improvement and i just dont want that way of thinking rubbing off on any current/future player

[Knightro]

I don’t think Fultz is very healthy & he’s never been fully confident in his shot ever even when he’s a decent starter like last year or in 2020.

He’s been having some decent games off the bench as a role player the past 3 games, but he may need to sign with a new team in the offseason on another 2-3 year deal.

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

So, for $5M a year?
He will be 7 years pro as free agent, vet minimum for such player will be over $2,5M

for that he can go and sit on bench of some Bucks/Nuggets and win a title.


What would purpose of that re-sign be?
Black would continue to play anything but PG.
Cole would still be needed as bench scorer.
Suggs would still be incapable of playing PG.
And you would still need starting level PG


I reached point where i just feel bad about Fultz so i don't want to engage into debates about him nor say anything negative. But if you have to decide between $5M a year on non contender, vs at least $3M a year on contender, why would you choose Magic?

If i'm some Knicks team, i would rather have him as 10th man than Flynn or Achuiwa ,both make +$3,5M ( hell, Achuiwa makes near $4,5 while being one of least fundamentally sounded/talentd basketball players i ever watched in nba. ).

I’m just trying to be nice to the guy!

That said…

If the Magic stay healthy and make a second half of the season run like I think they are capable of making as the schedule lightens up, I absolutely still believe the odds of Weltman doing a full blown run it back (aka last night’s lineup and rotation with Fultz signed to a new contract this summer) is on the table.

[pepe1991]

As crazy as it sounds, I actually don't have a huge problem with Fultz returning for like 1/3 his current price and slotting him into a tight 15-18 MPG as the backup PG.

Now this would require the team to ultimately trade Cole since those two can't really share the floor together, but I'd be ok with that as an outcome ultimately.

So, for $5M a year?
He will be 7 years pro as free agent, vet minimum for such player will be over $2,5M

for that he can go and sit on bench of some Bucks/Nuggets and win a title.


What would purpose of that re-sign be?
Black would continue to play anything but PG.
Cole would still be needed as bench scorer.
Suggs would still be incapable of playing PG.
And you would still need starting level PG


I reached point where i just feel bad about Fultz so i don't want to engage into debates about him nor say anything negative. But if you have to decide between $5M a year on non contender, vs at least $3M a year on contender, why would you choose Magic?

If i'm some Knicks team, i would rather have him as 10th man than Flynn or Achuiwa ,both make +$3,5M ( hell, Achuiwa makes near $4,5 while being one of least fundamentally sounded/talentd basketball players i ever watched in nba. ).

I’m just trying to be nice to the guy!

That said…

If the Magic stay healthy and make a second half of the season run like I think they are capable of making as the schedule lightens up, I absolutely still believe the odds of Weltman doing a full blown run it back (aka last night’s lineup and rotation with Fultz signed to a new contract this summer) is on the table.