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Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#181 » by Bensational » Tue Apr 2, 2024 9:20 am

pepe1991 wrote:
Knightro wrote:Paolo's long-term ceiling as a franchise player is a fascinating debate topic.

A lot of people are decidedly low on what he can become, but I also think a good bit of that chatter comes from people who box score watch more than actually watch.

Paolo doesn't grade all that favorably right now in a lot of advanced metrics like NET, EPM, etc. So people who don't watch a lot of Magic games see that and think he's making a minimal impact.

But then he was voted into the all-star game by NBA coaches. And NBA players also shower him with praise.

So it's a very interesting thing to look at broadly.


Among nba fans who aren't fans of XY team with xy players on it, being 30% usage rate player on 55% TS/ 5% below league's average eFG will always be viewed in similar fashion.

It just boils down to personal opinion how much you view team sucess as direct result of such player being highest usage rate player on a team.


His splits on W’s and L’s tell his story. They’re consistent win or lose in ppg, rpg, apg but in the W’s he’s 59% TS% and 28% USG, shooting 42% from 3.

He’s doing that at a 43:30 ratio this season. Expanding on that will get him respect.

From a game perspective, he’s shown a knack for pulling through in the big moments a lot already for a young guy. I understand why he wouldn’t grab someone, but I wouldn’t bet against him. I think he’s a large part of the “grind you down and beat you” identity the team has at the moment, with his bully ball offense matched with the team’s grindhouse defense.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#182 » by eyriq » Tue Apr 2, 2024 11:56 am

None of the advanced stats like Paolo

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#183 » by pepe1991 » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:06 pm

eyriq wrote:None of the advanced stats like Paolo

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LOL at Victor's +4,8 on trash team :lol:
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#184 » by eyriq » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:07 pm

The Dorko metric also says that Suggs and Franz clear Paolo.

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#185 » by RookieStar » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:16 pm

Im convinced. Its time to trade Paolo and build arpund Suggs and Franz
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#186 » by basketballRob » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:33 pm

I think Paolo needs to play at the 3 more. He's a better 3 than a 4. That's part of the reason that big lineup worked so well.

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#187 » by JoshuaPotter » Tue Apr 2, 2024 12:55 pm

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Interesting.

So we need to keep Franz + Suggs and trade Paolo?

I think thought if we look at his progression he is headed in the right direction.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#188 » by basketballRob » Tue Apr 2, 2024 2:08 pm

Fultz is killing the net rating of the second unit.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#189 » by Optimus_Steel » Tue Apr 2, 2024 4:35 pm

JoshuaPotter wrote:Image

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Interesting.

So we need to keep Franz + Suggs and trade Paolo?

I think thought if we look at his progression he is headed in the right direction.



This why can’t just rely on advanced metrics.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#190 » by thelead » Tue Apr 2, 2024 5:09 pm

Optimus_Steel wrote:
JoshuaPotter wrote:Image

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Interesting.

So we need to keep Franz + Suggs and trade Paolo?

I think thought if we look at his progression he is headed in the right direction.



This why can’t just rely on advanced metrics.

Why?
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#191 » by JoshuaPotter » Tue Apr 2, 2024 5:18 pm

My five second thought, is you need a stat stuffer to fill the stat sheet otherwise the "effective" advanced stats you see from Suggs + Franz would likely disappear.

This is not true across the board, but this for example is probably one of many reasons why Claxtons defensive advanced stats are in the toilet. At some point, "team effort" or "those you are surrounded with" impacts your game.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#192 » by drsd » Tue Apr 2, 2024 5:33 pm

The DARKO stat points to Banchero being very inefficient on offense.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#193 » by Knightro » Tue Apr 2, 2024 6:07 pm

KillMonger wrote:Consensus time, honest thoughts on markelle....no sugar coating


When he is right, which he was for most of last season, Markelle Fultz has a perfectly capable backup PG skill set. His complete lack of perimeter shooting makes him a terrible fit as a starting PG

For whatever reason, whether it's the shoulder, the knee, his mental makeup, he's not a viable NBA player.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#194 » by yoyojw17 » Tue Apr 2, 2024 6:20 pm

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#195 » by Skybox » Tue Apr 2, 2024 6:28 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:


My first year of T-Ball, we lost every game...we got something like this for our troubles.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#196 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 3, 2024 12:51 am

One big question I have about Paolo is how compatible he will be with another playmaker. He has shown he’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands finding shots for himself and his teammates, but how will he respond to someone else running things? I think he’ll have to be sold on how another guy will be setting the table for him in a way he’s comfortable finishing.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#197 » by Skybox » Wed Apr 3, 2024 1:09 am

Bensational wrote:One big question I have about Paolo is how compatible he will be with another playmaker. He has shown he’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands finding shots for himself and his teammates, but how will he respond to someone else running things? I think he’ll have to be sold on how another guy will be setting the table for him in a way he’s comfortable finishing.


This isn’t AAU…he’ll be glad to have some help. It doesn’t mean deferring- we saw last night that he needs a breather once in a while. Carrying a team on every offensive possession (and then having your defensive effort questioned) is not a plan for winning. It’s not like he demanded every possession.

This is not like asking Chris Bosh to rebound for LBJ and DWade…he’d welcome another reliable ball handler to make things easier for him.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#198 » by VFX » Wed Apr 3, 2024 1:15 am

yoyojw17 wrote:


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gotta love Magic media. They have their favorites.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#199 » by VFX » Wed Apr 3, 2024 1:26 am

Bensational wrote:One big question I have about Paolo is how compatible he will be with another playmaker. He has shown he’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands finding shots for himself and his teammates, but how will he respond to someone else running things? I think he’ll have to be sold on how another guy will be setting the table for him in a way he’s comfortable finishing.


I think that Paolo’s compatibility has less to do with Franz and more to do with the supporting cast. That 90s brand of iso basketball doesn’t work anymore now.

Lebron was only effective with either an elite dynamic scorer in the back court or multiple plus volume shooters. Paolo doesn’t really work unless Franz AND both guards are great shooters OR they acquire a point guard that can get him the ball in scoring situations.

Magic don’t have either of those things right now and he’s not efficient in that situation regardless of what he feels comfortable doing at age 21. Orlando needs to acquire someone that can put Paolo in situations to finish at the rim instead of him attempting to take extremely inefficient difficult shots and turning the ball over 4-5 times a game trying to do so.
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic General Season Thread II 

Post#200 » by Bensational » Wed Apr 3, 2024 1:26 am

Skybox wrote:
Bensational wrote:One big question I have about Paolo is how compatible he will be with another playmaker. He has shown he’s most comfortable with the ball in his hands finding shots for himself and his teammates, but how will he respond to someone else running things? I think he’ll have to be sold on how another guy will be setting the table for him in a way he’s comfortable finishing.


This isn’t AAU…he’ll be glad to have some help. It doesn’t mean deferring- we saw last night that he needs a breather once in a while. Carrying a team on every offensive possession (and then having your defensive effort questioned) is not a plan for winning. It’s not like he demanded every possession.

This is not like asking Chris Bosh to rebound for LBJ and DWade…he’d welcome another reliable ball handler to make things easier for him.


I’m not suggesting that’s the case. What I’m saying is that Paolo hasn’t shown he has a bread and butter off-ball move another playmaker can set up and exploit other than a drive and kick. Apart from the times they’re running offense for others, how are they helping Paolo get easier buckets? There’s a variety of potential ways, we just haven’t seen him go to them much.

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