The German elephant in the room.

[The-Stallion70]

Sometimes a guy with star potential needs to get paid before something clicks mentally or whatever and he really breaks out.

That may happen this year for Franz.

Tmac was a number 2 in Toronto.

[RichCollab]

Can we delete this now?

[thelead]

Can we delete this now?

I need a month or so worth of data and we’ll be good

[pepe1991]

Can we delete this now?

I need a month or so worth of data and we’ll be good

3 years of evidence that Franz is good isn't enough, but people wanted to wait on Fultz development for 7 years ?

[J-Mezzy]

Can we delete this now?

I need a month or so worth of data and we’ll be good

3 years of evidence that Franz is good isn't enough, but people wanted to wait on Fultz development for 7 years ?

Ahhh Markelle. You took the win in that one my friend

[pepe1991]

I need a month or so worth of data and we’ll be good

3 years of evidence that Franz is good isn't enough, but people wanted to wait on Fultz development for 7 years ?

Ahhh Markelle. You took the win in that one my friend

But to me it's not about "internet wins" but rather team wasting ( our ) years on such an crappy player. Ditto to Payton.

[J-Mezzy]

3 years of evidence that Franz is good isn't enough, but people wanted to wait on Fultz development for 7 years ?

Ahhh Markelle. You took the win in that one my friend

But to me it's not about "internet wins" but rather team wasting ( our ) years on such an crappy player. Ditto to Payton.

**** I forgot you were right about Payton too. Soooo what do you feel about Black?

[pepe1991]

Ahhh Markelle. You took the win in that one my friend

But to me it's not about "internet wins" but rather team wasting ( our ) years on such an crappy player. Ditto to Payton.

**** I forgot you were right about Payton too. Soooo what do you feel about Black?

I remember saying i like him as prospect but don't like fit with us.
He looks better than he looked last year as PG but season just started so it's hard to tell.

Black is already better in off ball positioning than Fultz and Payton ever were.

[J-Mezzy]

But to me it's not about "internet wins" but rather team wasting ( our ) years on such an crappy player. Ditto to Payton.

**** I forgot you were right about Payton too. Soooo what do you feel about Black?

I remember saying i like him as prospect but don't like fit with us.
He looks better than he looked last year as PG but season just started so it's hard to tell.

Black is already better in off ball positioning than Fultz and Payton ever were.

What is it about the fit that you don’t like?

[pepe1991]

**** I forgot you were right about Payton too. Soooo what do you feel about Black?

I remember saying i like him as prospect but don't like fit with us.
He looks better than he looked last year as PG but season just started so it's hard to tell.

Black is already better in off ball positioning than Fultz and Payton ever were.

What is it about the fit that you don’t like?

Lack of traditional pick&roll treat, limited dribble penetration and spacing.

For Black better fit would be Utah for example, overlapping in skills would be avoided , he would be anti Sexton/Keyonte George type of guard, defensive specialist who isn't ball dominant, and them would be doing some line breakups with ball in dribble penetration.

On Magic there is redundancy between him and Suggs ( and even KCP and Harris to a degree) where non of them is traditional ballhandler/playmaker who puts defense on a heels, keeps dribble alive, attacks closeouts off dribble and can break defense 1 on 1.

Current Magic construction does not put pressure on solid, tall defense. We even saw that vs Memphis last night. They anticipated line attacks from Paolo ( and he didn't adjust) and Franz ( he did some demage but settled for 3s ) . At the end of a game, Magic scored only 34 poitns in paint. Memphis 62.

Whole lot of it is just Ja creating pressure.

In just several plays you had Ja breaking 1 on 3 transition defense going through Moe, Harris and Black.
Memphis did some sort of inverted back screen allyoop. Ja bumps Suggs, screens Wendell, slips below and catches allyoop.

Ja didn't even have good game, but he created so much havoc by ball pressure and defense (over)reacts to him even when he does next to nothing.

Current Magic roster, with or without Black simply lacks type of player to create stuff like that.

[basketballRob]

Moe was awful on defense. When we don't have Isaac, the backup bigs kill us from the perimeter.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[J-Mezzy]

I remember saying i like him as prospect but don't like fit with us.
He looks better than he looked last year as PG but season just started so it's hard to tell.

Black is already better in off ball positioning than Fultz and Payton ever were.

What is it about the fit that you don’t like?

Lack of traditional pick&roll treat, limited dribble penetration and spacing.

For Black better fit would be Utah for example, overlapping in skills would be avoided , he would be anti Sexton/Keyonte George type of guard, defensive specialist who isn't ball dominant, and them would be doing some line breakups with ball in dribble penetration.

On Magic there is redundancy between him and Suggs ( and even KCP and Harris to a degree) where non of them is traditional ballhandler/playmaker who puts defense on a heels, keeps dribble alive, attacks closeouts off dribble and can break defense 1 on 1.

Current Magic construction does not put pressure on solid, tall defense. We even saw that vs Memphis last night. They anticipated line attacks from Paolo ( and he didn't adjust) and Franz ( he did some demage but settled for 3s ) . At the end of a game, Magic scored only 34 poitns in paint. Memphis 62.

Whole lot of it is just Ja creating pressure.

In just several plays you had Ja breaking 1 on 3 transition defense going through Moe, Harris and Black.
Memphis did some sort of inverted back screen allyoop. Ja bumps Suggs, screens Wendell, slips below and catches allyoop.

Ja didn't even have good game, but he created so much havoc by ball pressure and defense (over)reacts to him even when he does next to nothing.

Current Magic roster, with or without Black simply lacks type of player to create stuff like that.

Yes

We have so many of the same guys. It’s why I’m not as confident as others on us making a deep run. When the defenses get intense, I see us struggling to create quality shots

[The-Stallion70]

Franz would be getting shat on if he would have put up Paolo's numbers the last few games.

[The-Stallion70]

I remember saying i like him as prospect but don't like fit with us.
He looks better than he looked last year as PG but season just started so it's hard to tell.

Black is already better in off ball positioning than Fultz and Payton ever were.

What is it about the fit that you don’t like?

Lack of traditional pick&roll treat, limited dribble penetration and spacing.

For Black better fit would be Utah for example, overlapping in skills would be avoided , he would be anti Sexton/Keyonte George type of guard, defensive specialist who isn't ball dominant, and them would be doing some line breakups with ball in dribble penetration.

On Magic there is redundancy between him and Suggs ( and even KCP and Harris to a degree) where non of them is traditional ballhandler/playmaker who puts defense on a heels, keeps dribble alive, attacks closeouts off dribble and can break defense 1 on 1.

Current Magic construction does not put pressure on solid, tall defense. We even saw that vs Memphis last night. They anticipated line attacks from Paolo ( and he didn't adjust) and Franz ( he did some demage but settled for 3s ) . At the end of a game, Magic scored only 34 poitns in paint. Memphis 62.

Whole lot of it is just Ja creating pressure.

In just several plays you had Ja breaking 1 on 3 transition defense going through Moe, Harris and Black.
Memphis did some sort of inverted back screen allyoop. Ja bumps Suggs, screens Wendell, slips below and catches allyoop.

Ja didn't even have good game, but he created so much havoc by ball pressure and defense (over)reacts to him even when he does next to nothing.

Current Magic roster, with or without Black simply lacks type of player to create stuff like that.

Yea I personally find it odd how a point guard taken fifth overall in the spacing era can't shoot the ball or shoot off the dribble.

We could cite percentages all day but the real shooters and offensive threats are the guys who create space and Black doesn't really do that.

The Magic are getting away with playing two shooting guards as guards because our best players are tall point forwards.

[VFX]

What is it about the fit that you don’t like?

Lack of traditional pick&roll treat, limited dribble penetration and spacing.

For Black better fit would be Utah for example, overlapping in skills would be avoided , he would be anti Sexton/Keyonte George type of guard, defensive specialist who isn't ball dominant, and them would be doing some line breakups with ball in dribble penetration.

On Magic there is redundancy between him and Suggs ( and even KCP and Harris to a degree) where non of them is traditional ballhandler/playmaker who puts defense on a heels, keeps dribble alive, attacks closeouts off dribble and can break defense 1 on 1.

Current Magic construction does not put pressure on solid, tall defense. We even saw that vs Memphis last night. They anticipated line attacks from Paolo ( and he didn't adjust) and Franz ( he did some demage but settled for 3s ) . At the end of a game, Magic scored only 34 poitns in paint. Memphis 62.

Whole lot of it is just Ja creating pressure.

In just several plays you had Ja breaking 1 on 3 transition defense going through Moe, Harris and Black.
Memphis did some sort of inverted back screen allyoop. Ja bumps Suggs, screens Wendell, slips below and catches allyoop.

Ja didn't even have good game, but he created so much havoc by ball pressure and defense (over)reacts to him even when he does next to nothing.

Current Magic roster, with or without Black simply lacks type of player to create stuff like that.

Yea I personally find it odd how a point guard taken fifth overall in the spacing era can't shoot the ball or shoot off the dribble.

We could cite percentages all day but the real shooters and offensive threats are the guys who create space and Black doesn't really do that.

The Magic are getting away with playing two shooting guards as guards because our best players are tall point forwards.

So is he a shooting guard or a point guard? You can’t even stay consistent with your takes in the same post.

[Bakomagic]

Franz would be getting shat on if he would have put up Paolo's numbers the last few games.

Paolo gets shat on when he does not play well, too; there was a thread on Paolo last year, and people were proposing trading him for role-playing journeymen because they were "a better fit."

Don't make this my guy vs. your guy thing; that's weird man.

[eyriq]

Yea I personally find it odd how a point guard taken fifth overall in the spacing era can't shoot the ball or shoot off the dribble.

We could cite percentages all day but the real shooters and offensive threats are the guys who create space and Black doesn't really do that.

The Magic are getting away with playing two shooting guards as guards because our best players are tall point forwards.

Man, you know, this is why I really wish we had kept Fultz. We've really exposed ourselves by letting our only PG walk, and the resulting lack of shooting from our backcourt is going to really bite us in the ***.

[The-Stallion70]

Lack of traditional pick&roll treat, limited dribble penetration and spacing.

For Black better fit would be Utah for example, overlapping in skills would be avoided , he would be anti Sexton/Keyonte George type of guard, defensive specialist who isn't ball dominant, and them would be doing some line breakups with ball in dribble penetration.

On Magic there is redundancy between him and Suggs ( and even KCP and Harris to a degree) where non of them is traditional ballhandler/playmaker who puts defense on a heels, keeps dribble alive, attacks closeouts off dribble and can break defense 1 on 1.

Current Magic construction does not put pressure on solid, tall defense. We even saw that vs Memphis last night. They anticipated line attacks from Paolo ( and he didn't adjust) and Franz ( he did some demage but settled for 3s ) . At the end of a game, Magic scored only 34 poitns in paint. Memphis 62.

Whole lot of it is just Ja creating pressure.

In just several plays you had Ja breaking 1 on 3 transition defense going through Moe, Harris and Black.
Memphis did some sort of inverted back screen allyoop. Ja bumps Suggs, screens Wendell, slips below and catches allyoop.

Ja didn't even have good game, but he created so much havoc by ball pressure and defense (over)reacts to him even when he does next to nothing.

Current Magic roster, with or without Black simply lacks type of player to create stuff like that.

Yea I personally find it odd how a point guard taken fifth overall in the spacing era can't shoot the ball or shoot off the dribble.

We could cite percentages all day but the real shooters and offensive threats are the guys who create space and Black doesn't really do that.

The Magic are getting away with playing two shooting guards as guards because our best players are tall point forwards.

So is he a shooting guard or a point guard? You can’t even stay consistent with your takes in the same post.

Regarding Black? I was not referring to Black because he does not start, we start KCP and Suggs.

Black is more of an offensively inept point guard but because he is so versatile defensively he can fit in alot of ways. Usually a point guard taken fifth overall is more than a fourth or fifth offensive option though.

My point was not to remark on Black but to make a general statement about the team, looks like you missed that bit.

[The-Stallion70]

Franz would be getting shat on if he would have put up Paolo's numbers the last few games.

Paolo gets shat on when he does not play well, too; there was a thread on Paolo last year, and people were proposing trading him for role-playing journeymen because they were "a better fit."

Don't make this my guy vs. your guy thing; that's weird man.

People were already ready to scapegoat Franz for his contract before the season even started.

Welcome to Realgm this is absolutely a place where have your guy vs my guy arguments. Legitimate basketball discussion with good analysis is hard to find.

[Bakomagic]

Franz would be getting shat on if he would have put up Paolo's numbers the last few games.

Paolo gets shat on when he does not play well, too; there was a thread on Paolo last year, and people were proposing trading him for role-playing journeymen because they were "a better fit."

Don't make this my guy vs. your guy thing; that's weird man.

People were already ready to scapegoat Franz for his contract before the season even started.

Welcome to Realgm this is absolutely a place where have your guy vs my guy arguments. Legitimate basketball discussion with good analysis is hard to find.

There was no “good analysis” in your post and your point was not legitimate as I provided an example of Paolo receiving similar treatment. I felt like you were just trying to stir stuff up.

But it’s possible I misunderstood your intent.