Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 7.0: KCP Signed, What's Next?

[drsd]

As best I can tell, a three year room contract would pay M-Wagner 7.7+8.085+8.489 = 24.27M.

Is that correct? I ask as that is less than what Bitadze got.

EDIT: it starts at 7.9+ not 7.7, so a room would be:
7,983,000 y1
8,382,150 y2
8,801,257 y3
= 25,166,407

Or, essentially the same as Bitadze in total.

[axl_c_cool]

As of today, this is the current depth chart.

Suggs/Anthony/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Harris/Howard
F-Wagner/Houstan/da Silva
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/Bitadze



Two thoughts;

1) the Magic is actually not at the salary floor yet, but even a vet-min contract take the Magic to it. To get to the 141 cap, the Magic has about 13M to spend. So: expect Orlando to sign M-Wagner for more than the room deal, say three-years 35M. And then to use a LLE exemption on Mr #15, who really needs to be a vet PF.

2) If you would have told me that Black and Howard would both be 3rd stringers in the sophomore years, I would have thought you were trolling.

I called this lineup a month ago with Thompson of George instead of KCP, it makes so much sense. Some of our starters from last year are high level backups, add the continuity to that and they had to come back.

A big part people are missing are Banchero, Wagner, and Suggs development. If you sign George or Thompson everyone drops down a role except Banchero, who has to share with them. It’s likely we win with George or Thompson, this gives those 3 at least another season of being our big 3 and supporting them with shooting role players.

[Howard Mass]

When I and others on the Forum look at this offseason and evaluate what The Magic have done this offseason so far, I think there are some takes and questions you have to ask.

Draft

At #18, would you have made a different move than taking Tristan Da Silva? If so, what?: Da Silva was the top player on my Board at #18.

At #47, would you have kept a player to Draft and do you feel that player could have stuck?: If it had been for cash, I would not be ok with it. However, as you saw in the 2nd round this year, a lot of the names people wanted, went in the 30's. In this CBA, every 2nd round asset helps and having the right to swap (2030 and 2031) with a team even years down the line makes the pick more valuable.

Given how The Magic already has youth on the roster, it's possible Antonio Reeves might not have had a chance here even as a Two-Way Contract and they choose to accumulate a future asset.

Remember, The Magic used 2nd round assets to get the right to swap their 2026 first round pick in 2026 for the less favorable of Phoenix and Washington's. That's looking pretty good right now.

Here are the 3 picks they traded for that right.

2024 Denver 2nd (Would have been #58 or #59): This was forfeited by Phoenix due to a tampering charge so pick was erased.
2026 2nd (Least favorable of Detroit, Milwaukee and Orlando)
2028: Boston's 2nd (If pick is 46-60, if not, it's nothing).

When you look at the above, I don't think any of those 2nds are going to be good.

What The Magic have been doing very quietly is setting themselves up well in the 2nd round for when they are good and will need cheap players to fill out their roster.

This one is a tough call and whether or not, you felt Reeves had staying power. I am kind of on the fence but lean toward getting the swap rights in 2030 and 2031.

Free Agency so Far

Kentavious Caldwell Pope- The question is not if this was a good pickup (he was). KCP is a wonderful addition. The question and concern here is many of us wanted Jalen Suggs to move to shooting guard me included.

I would have liked The Magic to sign Tyus Jones to split minutes at the point with Anthony Black who needs minutes.

Instead, it appears Jalen Suggs will be back at PG and the offensive d not look good with him running it. Now, I'm ok with that death lineup (Suggs, F. Wagner, Banchero, Carter and Issac) if they are up by over 5 points in the 4th Quarter.

However, you need someone who can create and not sure this is changing much next season which is a major concern.

So, I like KDP but wanted Suggs to be starting at SG next year and this means he will be a PG.

Goga Bitadze- It was a surprise that The Magic brought him back for 3y/$25 million given Wendell Carter Jr. is on the roster and Mo Wagner is expected to re-sign.

It's encouraging though that The Magic want to give him minutes given they need more of a defensive center there and went on a streak with him in the lineup. You can argue Bitadze was the best on the market outside of Isaiah Hartenstein who went to Oklahoma City.

The real question here is if a trade is coming to free up minutes. Bitadze is a good value at his rate if he is playing. Let's see what else happens here.

Gary Harris- He's serviceable and good in the Locker Room. That 2nd year is likely a team option too. It helps to have as an option on the bench.

The rest of the roster is still filling out. Here is where myself and a lot of us are frustrated.

Questions.

Point Guard: The offensive setup looked bad last year with Suggs as The Starter and other than Anthony Black potentially playing more minutes, it does not look much has changed and it needs too.

Development: You don't use two lottery Picks to let them ride the pine multiple seasons. Anthony Black should be playing the backup PG minutes next season. The team did well with him in the starting lineup and need a creator. I do feel he will end being the point guard of the future.

Jett Howard was the 2nd Lottery pick in 2023. Many of us myself included had a few others on our Boards before him and that is what frustrates people.

While I do see how he can become a light it up scorer, if he does not pan out, the BIG problem here isJeff Weltman passed on a center of the future in Dereck Lively and a few good swingman prospects to select him.

I still think Jett can pan out though but that above question will loom over this pick.

He should not automatically get minutes but if Weltman was so high on him, he needs to have a chance to get minutes on a team that has Three-Point shooting issues.

If you were not going to develop these guys, then why not deal them for future assets or players that could better help this team?

Some will give the argument about earning minutes but you got to play them to see what you got especially given the high investment.

Trades and more to come. We just got to see how the rest of the roster fills out and if any trades are looming. At worst, there will be more speculation at this year's Trading Deadline.

[OnlyFranz22]

What would you give up for Nurkic?

[KillMonger]

If we're done in free agency and we don't make any trades then we're banking on internal development again....cool....if thats the case though....DEVELOP them....they better be playing and not racking up dnp's

[The-Stallion70]

Calling Suggs our "point gyard" is really just an argument of who will bring the ball up every now abd then. Paolo is the team's "Point guard" and we've chosen to double down on our defensive identity and load up with two defensive guards at the guard spots.

[cedric76]

As of today, this is the current depth chart.

Suggs/Anthony/Black
Caldwell-Pope/Harris/Howard
F-Wagner/Houstan/da Silva
Banchero/Isaac
Carter/Bitadze



Two thoughts;

1) the Magic is actually not at the salary floor yet, but even a vet-min contract take the Magic to it. To get to the 141 cap, the Magic has about 13M to spend. So: expect Orlando to sign M-Wagner for more than the room deal, say three-years 35M. And then to use a LLE exemption on Mr #15, who really needs to be a vet PF.

2) If you would have told me that Black and Howard would both be 3rd stringers in the sophomore years, I would have thought you were trolling.

Black and Jett won't be 3rd string, Cole and Harris will

Suggs/Black/ cole
Caldwell-Pope/Howard / Harris
F-Wagner/Houstan/da Silva
Banchero/Isaac / Moe/ Joe
Carter/Bitadze / Moe

[RookieStar]

This is just like the local ymca/weekend tournaments/wednesday night league/ etc etc

Doesnt matter if you have a PG in your team or not, guy dribble to the halfcourt and you give the ball to your best player and let him cook as a pg/scorer/shooter/whatever.

[cedric76]

When I and others on the Forum look at this offseason and evaluate what The Magic have done this offseason so far, I think there are some takes and questions you have to ask.

Draft

At #18, would you have made a different move than taking Tristan Da Silva? If so, what?: Da Silva was the top player on my Board at #18.

At #47, would you have kept a player to Draft and do you feel that player could have stuck?: If it had been for cash, I would not be ok with it. However, as you saw in the 2nd round this year, a lot of the names people wanted, went in the 30's. In this CBA, every 2nd round asset helps and having the right to swap (2030 and 2031) with a team even years down the line makes the pick more valuable.

Given how The Magic already has youth on the roster, it's possible Antonio Reeves might not have had a chance here even as a Two-Way Contract and they choose to accumulate a future asset.

Remember, The Magic used 2nd round assets to get the right to swap their 2026 first round pick in 2026 for the less favorable of Phoenix and Washington's. That's looking pretty good right now.

Here are the 3 picks they traded for that right.

2024 Denver 2nd (Would have been #58 or #59): This was forfeited by Phoenix due to a tampering charge so pick was erased.
2026 2nd (Least favorable of Detroit, Milwaukee and Orlando)
2028: Boston's 2nd (If pick is 46-60, if not, it's nothing).

When you look at the above, I don't think any of those 2nds are going to be good.

What The Magic have been doing very quietly is setting themselves up well in the 2nd round for when they are good and will need cheap players to fill out their roster.

This one is a tough call and whether or not, you felt Reeves had staying power. I am kind of on the fence but lean toward getting the swap rights in 2030 and 2031.

Free Agency so Far

Kentavious Caldwell Pope- The question is not if this was a good pickup (he was). KCP is a wonderful addition. The question and concern here is many of us wanted Jalen Suggs to move to shooting guard me included.

I would have liked The Magic to sign Tyus Jones to split minutes at the point with Anthony Black who needs minutes.

Instead, it appears Jalen Suggs will be back at PG and the offensive d not look good with him running it. Now, I'm ok with that death lineup (Suggs, F. Wagner, Banchero, Carter and Issac) if they are up by over 5 points in the 4th Quarter.

However, you need someone who can create and not sure this is changing much next season which is a major concern.

So, I like KDP but wanted Suggs to be starting at SG next year and this means he will be a PG.

Goga Bitadze- It was a surprise that The Magic brought him back for 3y/$25 million given Wendell Carter Jr. is on the roster and Mo Wagner is expected to re-sign.

It's encouraging though that The Magic want to give him minutes given they need more of a defensive center there and went on a streak with him in the lineup. You can argue Bitadze was the best on the market outside of Isaiah Hartenstein who went to Oklahoma City.

The real question here is if a trade is coming to free up minutes. Bitadze is a good value at his rate if he is playing. Let's see what else happens here.

Gary Harris- He's serviceable and good in the Locker Room. That 2nd year is likely a team option too. It helps to have as an option on the bench.

The rest of the roster is still filling out. Here is where myself and a lot of us are frustrated.

Questions.

Point Guard: The offensive setup looked bad last year with Suggs as The Starter and other than Anthony Black potentially playing more minutes, it does not look much has changed and it needs too.

Development: You don't use two lottery Picks to let them ride the pine multiple seasons. Anthony Black should be playing the backup PG minutes next season. The team did well with him in the starting lineup and need a creator. I do feel he will end being the point guard of the future.

Jett Howard was the 2nd Lottery pick in 2023. Many of us myself included had a few others on our Boards before him and that is what frustrates people.

While I do see how he can become a light it up scorer, if he does not pan out, the BIG problem here isJeff Weltman passed on a center of the future in Dereck Lively and a few good swingman prospects to select him.

I still think Jett can pan out though but that above question will loom over this pick.

He should not automatically get minutes but if Weltman was so high on him, he needs to have a chance to get minutes on a team that has Three-Point shooting issues.

If you were not going to develop these guys, then why not deal them for future assets or players that could better help this team?

Some will give the argument about earning minutes but you got to play them to see what you got especially given the high investment.

Trades and more to come. We just got to see how the rest of the roster fills out and if any trades are looming. At worst, there will be more speculation at this year's Trading Deadline.

Nice post

[basketballRob]

Instead of signing Ingles as the 15th man maybe we should sign Precious. He could fill in when Isaac is injured. NY is hoping to re-sign him for $ 5 - 6m. He's a rim running player. I think he has the potential to be a great defender.

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[Skybox]

The re-signings were all reasonable tradable deals, on an individual basis...

Ingles isn't on the team, Mo isn't on the team (technically)...I expect Mo back, at least

CENTERS
Goga and Mo will get similar, individually reasonable deals...which, imo, makes a trade of one of the 3 C's likely
-oddly, Mo, at least in fans' minds can't be moved, because his brother would be sad, but he's also got the least trade value because most teams would want a better defender at that spot. WCJ is better overall than Goga, but I'd still consider rolling with Goga and Mo if WCJ brought us the best return (I like the CJ McCollum angle as it really fits NOLA too)

FORWARDS
Supposedly, we are working out a fair extension for Isaac. I like that and I like our forward group as is. I don't see any potential or likely trade bait among them. If there's room on the end of the bench for Ingles, I'd like him back on a vet min. Weltman hasn't given out any bad deals yet - so I'm hopeful Isaac can be locked up on a team-friendly deal too. Long term, Paolo, Isaac, Franz, da Silva looks good to me. I also really like the idea of Black getting significant minutes at SF (which also might be why Ingles isn't needed)

GUARDS
Still lacking and unbalanced, imo. But also, with guys under reasonable deals and good depth - there's no reason to not look for a "correction" trade. KCP, Suggs, and Harris are all pretty sound 3&D. Houstan and Jett appear to be just 3 with some D...The only guys that vaguely resemble a table-setter, ball handler are Cole and AB - and neither are starter level game managers, but both have game value in different roles...Also, it's very reasonable to believe that AB hasn't yet shown what he will be and might even take another season or more to get there. This group NEEDS a veteran ball handler, game manager off the bench and we certainly have other kinds of talent to spare. I really have to think that's on purpose as it's easier to trade viable player(s) under contract as very few teams have the cap space to take in players. Houstan's really a F, but he's another 3& not enough D. I just don't know if there's a role for him this year, unless Jett flounders and injuries hit us. Add him to the trade bait pile.

Harris, Cole, Jett could all be trade bait, along with any one of the Centers and future picks...This could happen this week or, more likely, knowing Weltman, he'll wait and see which teams become sellers at the TD. I find that kind of reactive and depressing because we've already, basically, seen this group. KCP is an improvement over Harris, probably to a similar degree that you can project improvement from AB and, hopefully Jett (if Jett can get on the floor).

Getting KCP and getting all of these guys tuned up and locked in financially is productive...but one more move for a significant reserve guard who can bring more than just spot up offense would make me very happy. Brogdon, Tyus, CJ, etc would make a lot of sense and, ostensibly, clear out some of the excess redundant guys before they rot on the bench and lose trade value. IF Jett's going to play Gary can't. If AB moves up, Cole is likely moving back...those guys all have value and their talent will be quickly forgotten if they are out of the rotation...Goga too. Make a trade...I think there are suitable targets that are easily obtained...Do it Now. A knock on Weltman is holding onto guys who should be decent trade chips until after they lose all value.

[tooler]

Keys to a successful season next year, from most important on down:

• Paolo emerging as a potential superstar
• Franz regaining his 3PT shot to become a legitimate all-star candidate
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
• Health in general (important but we have some depth)
• Suggs taking another mini-leap forward as a guard
• Cole and WCJ returning to form or traded
• More 3-pointers as a team

For better or worse, all the moves this summer seem secondary (or complimentary) to what's still important about this team.

[Skybox]

Having a really good (and expensive) 3rd string at C and guard spots is a waste of money...hopefully, there is a consolidation move for less, but better.

Right now, Cole, Jett, Harris, Houstan and all of the Centers are on "good" deals...the longer they sit on the bench, the quicker they look like "negative value" guys to the world. Each of them can perform well and put up marketable stats if given the minutes...but we just can't showcase them all at the same time, especially as we expect to be a legit playoff team.

[drsd]

Development: You don't use two lottery Picks to let them ride the pine multiple seasons. Anthony Black should be playing the backup PG minutes next season. The team did well with him in the starting lineup and need a creator. I do feel he will end being the point guard of the future.

Jett Howard was the 2nd Lottery pick in 2023. Many of us myself included had a few others on our Boards before him and that is what frustrates people..

Loved every pixel of your post, but this really stands out to me. It is OK that Howard is the 3rd string SG this year. It is NOT OK that Black would be a 3rd stringer.

If this is the roster WePark thinks moves the Magic forward, trade Anthony right now. For anything. Black needs to develop and Anthony is the odd man out.

[basketballRob]

I think Cole and Harris should be the backups until we see that Black or Jett are clearly better than them. Then, we could package one or both of Cole and Harris before the deadline.

Black was close to being better than Cole last season.

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[Nyce_1]

I know we just got him, and he's a fit, but I wouldn't be surprised if KCP was used to get Garland. Cavs will want good players to help them contend with Mitchell, and KCP fits that desire.

[Knightro]

We are good offensively. This team has shooter now. If Franz gets back to 35% from 3 this teams going to be a top 4 team. KCP and Suggs will shut Donovan Mitchell and Garland down. Goga's going to take over the starting spot and Jett and AB will carve out some burn... relax the sky is not falling.

It’s literally the exact same team as last year which was decidedly not good enough offensively + KCP who is a low usage player on that end.

Hard to say they’ve really done enough personnel wise on that end of the floor.

They are basically forced to hope Cole has a significant bounce back season or else they have virtually zero juice off the bounce in the backcourt at all.

What do you mean we have KCP, Suggs, Black, Jett, Harris, likely Ingles coming back too all shooters really to space the floor for Paolo so he can eat. Teams wont be packing the paint on us anymore

All of those guys were here last year (minus KCP) and the offense was quite bad.

I don’t really see how it’s going to be any different.

As it stands right now the only way the Magic’s offense is going to improve is if Paolo and Franz each level up pretty significantly as distance shooters and playmakers.

[fendilim]

Interesting

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iLAy6FEi9caa6E4C9teZYQ

Is that on 150% speed?

As a Isaac fan i like it.

Hahaha yes. I find that makes me less sleepy listening to podcast

[JT3000]

Interesting

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=iLAy6FEi9caa6E4C9teZYQ

Oh HELL no. That man owes the team money, not the other way around.

[Bergmaniac]

Black and Jett won't be 3rd string, Cole and Harris will

Jett played zero non-grabage time minutes last season and spent half the year playing in the G-league. The odds of him being in the rotation at the start of the season ahead of Cole and Harris, two vets the coach clearly likes and trusts, are very low.