Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 I: Big decisions on the horizon

[ezzzp]

This overusage of wingspan as gospel of quality has to stop

There is high lottery pick drafted few years back who is 6'7, with 7 foot wingspan and was projected to be Jimmy Butler.... His name is Stanley Johnson.
Thon Maker 9,2 standing rach ,7'2 wingspan.
Wiggins 6'8- 7'0 wingspan


On polar opposite side, measured in 2011,

Jimmy Butler 6'7 --- 6'7 wingspan
Klay Thompson 6'7 --- 6'9 wingspan

They will probably suck on defense and be total scrubs

Yep...wingspan is an important tool, but its just a sliver of what is required to be a good defender in NBA. Natural instincts, high bbIQ, excellent footwork + twitchy but in-control reactions, team defense discipline and awareness, excellent conditioning, and most importantly a hunger to excel on defense.

The DPOY types have most or all of these.

[SOUL]

Oladipo wasn't the only one that saw floor time.

Sorry, I meant as in the respective time frames of Atlanta vs Orlando's rebuild a year and a few months in. I actually forgot we acquired Tobias before Oladipo. But yeah, all I'm saying is judging Atlanta at this point in time too harshly is like judging us with Vucevic, half a season of Tobias, and a drafted Oladipo who never played yet. I think some people are downing Atlanta too quickly while others might be overrating them as well.

[VFX]

So Nets are favored to land KD... that means D-lo is certainly not getting resigned in Brooklyn.

Also, multiple sources are saying Vuc is in play for Boston. Sacramento’s WCS said he wants out and they could possibly make an offer.

I want to believe about Boston but it’s just hard to believe that they cleared Baynes 5 million into cap just to pay Vuc 20+. Maybe they just really like his game, who knows. It’ll probably be the sort of thing where if their plan A and B fail maybe C is to get a center like Vuc or trade for Steven Adams.

I think the Celtics are targeting 3 players in free agency with that cap room: Vucevic, Russell and Brogdon. The PGs are the priority targets, but Vucevic is the closest they can get to replicating Al Horford's skill set. With the other rumblings about Boston talking to Houston, I think they are looking to trade for a center like Capela or OKC's Adams as an alternative.

I think Plan A for the Celtics is to sign Russell or Brogdon, then trading for Capela or Adams.
If they whiff on Russell or Brogdon, Plan B is likely to sign Vucevic and re-sign Rozier. That's how I'm reading the tea leaves.

It depends on a few factors. Russell’s original list was Utah, Minnesota, Indiana, and Orlando. Out of that list - Utah is out of play because of Conley, Minnesota has to clear cap space, and Indiana could possibly be in play even though they have Collison and Joseph in the back court. Orlando still gives him the most opportunity.

Not saying it’s down to this imaginary list, but with all the info we have currently that’s what it seems like. From everything else people can gather it seems like Minnesota has made the most noise. Maybe Orlando tries for Tyus if they land D-lo over us.

[Skin]

This overusage of wingspan as gospel of quality has to stop

There is high lottery pick drafted few years back who is 6'7, with 7 foot wingspan and was projected to be Jimmy Butler.... His name is Stanley Johnson.
Thon Maker 9,2 standing rach ,7'2 wingspan.
Wiggins 6'8- 7'0 wingspan


On polar opposite side, measured in 2011,

Jimmy Butler 6'7 --- 6'7 wingspan
Klay Thompson 6'7 --- 6'9 wingspan

They will probably suck on defense and be total scrubs

Yeah there you go with the overexaggated hyperbole talk again. Who has ever said that is the one and only thing that leads to a successful player??? No one.

Is it one of the requirements of an ORL target? Yes.

Is it the only requirement? No.

[ezzzp]

You have to have some vets in roster to keep heads straight and spirit high and to teach them to grind through nba season and give them trouble in practice, but also give them ( youth) right advices.

Suns experiment with youth roster only was complete faliure as Morris twin was fighting everybody .

yep...and it can't just be any vet, it has to be a good starting caliber guy(s) still in their prime or able to produce at a high level. No young player was going to listen to Channing Frye giving advice on how to succeed in NBA. "Locker room presence" can't be some washed up vet, spinning tales about "back in my day" type nonsense.

[Skin]

I want to believe about Boston but it’s just hard to believe that they cleared Baynes 5 million into cap just to pay Vuc 20+. Maybe they just really like his game, who knows. It’ll probably be the sort of thing where if their plan A and B fail maybe C is to get a center like Vuc or trade for Steven Adams.

I think the Celtics are targeting 3 players in free agency with that cap room: Vucevic, Russell and Brogdon. The PGs are the priority targets, but Vucevic is the closest they can get to replicating Al Horford's skill set. With the other rumblings about Boston talking to Houston, I think they are looking to trade for a center like Capela or OKC's Adams as an alternative.

I think Plan A for the Celtics is to sign Russell or Brogdon, then trading for Capela or Adams.
If they whiff on Russell or Brogdon, Plan B is likely to sign Vucevic and re-sign Rozier. That's how I'm reading the tea leaves.

It depends on a few factors. Russell’s original list was Utah, Minnesota, Indiana, and Orlando. Utah is out of play because of Conley, Minnesota has to clear cap space, and Indiana could possibly be in play even though they have Collison and Joseph in the back court. Orlando still gives him the most opportunity.

Russell has a 6'10 wingspan so he's a potential target...



But there are several suitors for him and I don't we're giving up on Fultz yet. I can see us targeting Brogdon though since he's not a full time PG.

I would say he ends up in NY or BRK... where ever Kyrie doesn't go. DLo loves NYC. Other candidates... PHX, LA, DAL, BOS...

[VFX]

I think the Celtics are targeting 3 players in free agency with that cap room: Vucevic, Russell and Brogdon. The PGs are the priority targets, but Vucevic is the closest they can get to replicating Al Horford's skill set. With the other rumblings about Boston talking to Houston, I think they are looking to trade for a center like Capela or OKC's Adams as an alternative.

I think Plan A for the Celtics is to sign Russell or Brogdon, then trading for Capela or Adams.
If they whiff on Russell or Brogdon, Plan B is likely to sign Vucevic and re-sign Rozier. That's how I'm reading the tea leaves.

It depends on a few factors. Russell’s original list was Utah, Minnesota, Indiana, and Orlando. Utah is out of play because of Conley, Minnesota has to clear cap space, and Indiana could possibly be in play even though they have Collison and Joseph in the back court. Orlando still gives him the most opportunity.

Russell has a 6'10 wingspan so he's a potential target...



But there are several suitors for him and I don't we're giving up on Fultz yet. I can see us targeting Brogdon though since he's not a full time PG.

I would say he ends up in NY or BRK... where ever Kyrie doesn't go. DLo loves NYC. Other candidates... PHX, LA, DAL, BOS...

I don’t believe Fultz is factoring into any of these conversations, nor should he.

[ezzzp]

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[ezzzp]

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[Def Swami]

Considering the opening paragraph arguing to consider both present and future, maybe they meant no choice as in Vuc might choose to leave if another team like the Kings make a big offer. Which site put up this article anyway?

Looks like an ESPN article to me. I took that statement as even if Vuc is offered a 4 yr max by someone we may not have any other choice but to offer him that same contract because he is an asset we just cannot afford to lose.

I just don't see it that way. We are a rebuilding team that just picked a center 6th overall in last years draft. I could just as easily see the FO siding with resigning birch as our starter and grooming Bamba under him if Vuc signs for big money with another team.

Depends on the path that the front office want to take.

I don't anticipate that they or ownership have any intention of wanting to take steps backward. Which is why the expectation is they will do their best to retain Vucevic. If their goal is to continue onward as a playoff team, they will certainly have pressure to bring Vucevic back. UNLESS, there is an alternative plan to acquire another offensive option that makes up for Vucevic's win shares. That would involve more steps and luck and would be more challenging. It's possible, but if it's not probable, then they're going to do their best to bring Vucevic back. They don't have to match that max offer, but there will be some pressure if their intention is to remain competitive. And by all accounts, I believe that is the intent.

A follow up on our previous conversation.

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[ezzzp]

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[MagicFan101]

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?s=20

Isn’t this at least a week old? KAT has been screaming for it for longer but that doesn’t mean much. They spoke of Minny’s interest on draft night.

I just don’t see anyone taking on those contracts without sending a lot of crap back.

[Def Swami]

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?s=20

Isn’t this at least a week old? KAT has been screaming for it for longer but that doesn’t mean much. They spoke of Minny’s interest on draft night.

I just don’t see anyone taking on those contracts without sending a lot of crap back.

Zach Lowe mentioned in his last podcast that the Wolves are exuding some heir of confidence that they have a path to clear the cap space to land D'Angelo Russell. I can't see the path myself, but perhaps they have something up their sleeve.

[ezzzp]

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Isn’t this at least a week old? KAT has been screaming for it for longer but that doesn’t mean much. They spoke of Minny’s interest on draft night.

I just don’t see anyone taking on those contracts without sending a lot of crap back.

Last week there was some discussion around Wiggins.

The Teague/Dieng scenario has some possibility. That path is by being the highest bidder for JR Smith's contract.

If they swap Smith for Teague, they can get to $20m (1st year salary) by stretching Dieng, which might be enough if D-Lo really wants to play in Minnesota.

If they trade Dieng for Smith, they have a chance at a full max. They could then trade Teague's expiring to a team with cap space that needs to add a PG, somebody like Phoenix or Atlanta. In this scenario they could even keep Rose' cap hold and get to $25.5m

Three team trades that work:

Suns/Min/Cavs: http://tradenba.com/trades/r1zWBMylH

Atl/Min/Cavs: http://tradenba.com/trades/rkJHvzJgB

[pepe1991]

This overusage of wingspan as gospel of quality has to stop

There is high lottery pick drafted few years back who is 6'7, with 7 foot wingspan and was projected to be Jimmy Butler.... His name is Stanley Johnson.
Thon Maker 9,2 standing rach ,7'2 wingspan.
Wiggins 6'8- 7'0 wingspan


On polar opposite side, measured in 2011,

Jimmy Butler 6'7 --- 6'7 wingspan
Klay Thompson 6'7 --- 6'9 wingspan

They will probably suck on defense and be total scrubs

Yeah there you go with the overexaggated hyperbole talk again. Who has ever said that is the one and only thing that leads to a successful player??? No one.

Is it one of the requirements of an ORL target? Yes.

Is it the only requirement? No.

It wasn't directed to you. But it's laughable how much people here now look at wingspan as some indicator of basically talent.

As for Russell, his 6'10 wingspan is great example how long limbs don't make player good defender.

Aside from deflections and from to time block/steal/ rebounds there is no real benefits from having long arms for guard. Most of time their overly long arms hurt their shooting ( Rondo, Tony Allen, Ntikillina, Schroder) because shooting motion has too many moving parts.

For most players "wingspan" is not exstended by having long arms but freaky long fingers as well. That is another thing that hurts shooting motion of some players. Guys like Shaq, Dwight, GIannis , Marjanović, Noah Vonleh , Jah Okafor have some of largest hands ever measured in basketball.
You want some sort of repetition of holding ball to make it automatic when you shoot. IF your fists palm 70% of ball you will never get sense of how to hold ball or hands to make it .

Among biggest hand and wingspan players ever measured, Kawhi Leonard is only player who is actually good at shooting.

Even Jordan, by todays standards was mediocre 3 ball shooter, career 32,7%. / that's Hezonja's career percentage for comparison

[basketballRob]

This overusage of wingspan as gospel of quality has to stop

There is high lottery pick drafted few years back who is 6'7, with 7 foot wingspan and was projected to be Jimmy Butler.... His name is Stanley Johnson.
Thon Maker 9,2 standing rach ,7'2 wingspan.
Wiggins 6'8- 7'0 wingspan


On polar opposite side, measured in 2011,

Jimmy Butler 6'7 --- 6'7 wingspan
Klay Thompson 6'7 --- 6'9 wingspan

They will probably suck on defense and be total scrubs

Yeah there you go with the overexaggated hyperbole talk again. Who has ever said that is the one and only thing that leads to a successful player??? No one.

Is it one of the requirements of an ORL target? Yes.

Is it the only requirement? No.

It wasn't directed to you. But it's laughable how much people here now look at wingspan as some indicator of basically talent.

As for Russell, his 6'10 wingspan is great example how long limbs don't make player good defender.

Aside from deflections and from to time block/steal/ rebounds there is no real benefits from having long arms for guard. Most of time their overly long arms hurt their shooting ( Rondo, Tony Allen, Ntikillina, Schroder) because shooting motion has too many moving parts.

For most players "wingspan" is not exstended by having long arms but freaky long fingers as well. That is another thing that hurts shooting motion of some players. Guys like Shaq, Dwight, GIannis , Marjanović, Noah Vonleh , Jah Okafor have some of largest hands ever measured in basketball.
You want some sort of repetition of holding ball to make it automatic when you shoot. IF your fists palm 70% of ball you will never get sense of how to hold ball or hands to make it .

Among biggest hand and wingspan players ever measured, Kawhi Leonard is only player who is actually good at shooting.

Even Jordan, by todays standards was mediocre 3 ball shooter, career 32,7%. / that's Hezonja's career percentage for comparison

Durant is one and Brogdon has long arms for his size.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Yeah there you go with the overexaggated hyperbole talk again. Who has ever said that is the one and only thing that leads to a successful player??? No one.

Is it one of the requirements of an ORL target? Yes.

Is it the only requirement? No.

It wasn't directed to you. But it's laughable how much people here now look at wingspan as some indicator of basically talent.

As for Russell, his 6'10 wingspan is great example how long limbs don't make player good defender.

Aside from deflections and from to time block/steal/ rebounds there is no real benefits from having long arms for guard. Most of time their overly long arms hurt their shooting ( Rondo, Tony Allen, Ntikillina, Schroder) because shooting motion has too many moving parts.

For most players "wingspan" is not exstended by having long arms but freaky long fingers as well. That is another thing that hurts shooting motion of some players. Guys like Shaq, Dwight, GIannis , Marjanović, Noah Vonleh , Jah Okafor have some of largest hands ever measured in basketball.
You want some sort of repetition of holding ball to make it automatic when you shoot. IF your fists palm 70% of ball you will never get sense of how to hold ball or hands to make it .

Among biggest hand and wingspan players ever measured, Kawhi Leonard is only player who is actually good at shooting.

Even Jordan, by todays standards was mediocre 3 ball shooter, career 32,7%. / that's Hezonja's career percentage for comparison

Durant and Brogdon has long arms for his size.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

In nba average size of body/ wingspan is +3 inches to wingspan.
So him standing at 6'11 and 7'3 wingspan is pretty close to average. +4
Brogdon same story, 6'6 -6'10 wingspan isn't really that far off from average. +4

From guys i mentioned you have:
Rondo : 6'1- 6'2 --- 6'9 wingspan +6
Tony Allen 6'3---6'9 wingspan +6
Schroder : 6'2- 6'8 wingspan +6
Frank Ntilikina 6'5- 7'1 wingspan +6

Ntilikina allegedly has biggest wingspan among guards in nba, guess who also happends to be wost shooter among rotation guards?

[Skybox]

If Fultz returns as overall #1, nearly unanimous top pick Fultz, I'd be more interested in Brogdon than Russell. Depending on the offseason development of Bamba, the Vuc re-signing effort will have a different level of urgency. I love that we have no idea-WeHam keeps it close. It would not surprise me at all if he was looking harder at trading AG/Evan, picks, cap, etc for a Beal to run next to Fultz than running it back with Vuc and Ross. Exec of the Year if Fultz pans out, upgrade at SG, and Okeme and Isaac make us not miss AG. I'd be satisfied with running it back but...

[bigdogdylan5]

I am trying to get an answer on this. I saw Robbins did an athletic article about our cap room but I don’t have subscription to athletic. To max out Brogdan do we have to release cap holds of Vuc Ross and stretch Mozgov?

[Furinkazan]

Lol some of you love to set yourselves up for a disappointment
We are not in play for D-Lo get over it.We will most likely roll with almost same roster.