Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[pepe1991]

Robbins interview was pretty brutal.

Esencially said they hired him because he is yes man.
Said previous rebuild failed because players only played for money.
Said team has no talent right now
Said that front office only main goal is to win lottery next year
Said Scottie Barnes is not point guard and is not shooter and Orlando needs offense
Said that Orlando Magic fans should be concerned if he is pick

Sheesh, i thought i'm harsh but Josh came here

This is most brutal and honest interview i heared in loooooooooong time.

There wasn't anything too insightful behind it, and any brutality was superficial at best.

First off, he didn't seem to have done his homework on Mosley, he just said the headline which has been handed around - "player's coach and development coach". He struggled to think of a second attribute or description of him, and "he's a very good tactician with X's and O's on the defensive end". I wonder if Robbins even put in some calls to learn about Mosley?

If you want to be brutal, I'd be asking who Mosley has developed, as someone with a rep for developing players. In his time in Denver, there were no prominent risers from their youth. They went almost all veteran during his years there. Afflalo and Lawson were the only ones to emerge from the young group he groomed. One became an alcoholic and the other became the face of a tanking team.

Then he went to Cleveland, and the only notable names remaining from their tanking and developing years are Kyire and Tristan Thompson. Anthony Bennet, Dion Waiters, Dellavedova and Seth Curry are some of the other names brought in during his final year in Cleveland. One flamed out of the league as a #1 pick, Waiters became a journeyman, Delly became a role player on a contender and Curry also became a journeyman who's career didn't really take shape until he reunited with Mosley in Dallas.

In Dallas, DSJr fizzled, Luka came pre-developed, and Porzingis seemed to regress. Dwight Powell was probably his biggest overachiever. The fruits of Josh Green and Tyrell Terry have yet to fully blossom, though.

I would say that his reputation doesn't seem to hold up to his actual record of successfully developing players - if I were looking to be brutal. You could blame management for drafting poor players, but Mosley doesn't seem to have done much to actually elevate anyone's game.

I think in general there is too big emphacy on who develops players over who gets developed. Very few players can be developed.
I look at soccer and there is crazy big pool of young players that make big moves from teams around age 17-20. Vast majority of them never take another step in their careers or that step is nothing major, hardly even noticable. That's why you have guys who at age of 16 are viewed as "next Messi " or "next Neymar" and 3 years later that guy is in second division some crappy league.
But teams don't care, they simply use quantity, sign incredible amount of young players, and even if 95% of them fail, 5% of them who make leap, still bring them invested money back, with profit.

And reasons for it are multiple. Some of them get overhyped, some of them kick puberty sooner so use physical tools to dominate same age groups in their grownup bodies, some don't have drive to suceed, some get pu*** and it turns out to be their only goal in life, some get hooked on money and life of a party... Some of them simply don't have next step in them.

If young guy is only motivated by money and fame ( and let's face it, most of them are) , how hard will he work, if you throw 4 years $20M guaranteed at him? He is kind a set for life
If you are Ben Simmons, people are nagging you about "development "and "shooting " and sure, it probably bothers you, but it's much easier to get over it if you go home , in your 23 000 000 worth mansion in LA and drive in your costom made "Jordan" Ferrari. Life can't be that hard... Ofc he is not improving, he is megastar ,at age of 24 ,living Sims- cheat mode life , every day some instamodel is in his GM trying to suck him off. I'm not blaming them for not caring all that much about basketball.
Very few people say they want to be best in the world and really mean it. I wouldn't. I would want to live my life in best way i can, not be bothered about internet fan telling me i have no jumpshot.

[Knightro]

I'll give Jamahl a chance, like i did with Clifford ( despite initially not liking him at all ) . But boooy oh boy, it will take some epic ego menagment to not create JV vol 2 situation, where Harris, Vuc, Oladipo, Payton,Gordon , Evan were all more interested into "making name for themselfs" by pumping usage than team actually ever being- A team.

I’m still not really sure what your point is.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, completely understands that the Magic are going to have a poor record for multiple seasons.

We all get it.

Mosley’s success or lack there of is going to have to be judged much more broadly than the win/loss record because the record *by design* is going to be bad.

What you really seem to be suggesting is that there’s no such thing as tangible success during a major rebuild because there’s no way to keep guys from developing bad habits or chasing their own individual numbers at the expense of the team as a whole. The only success it seems you actually believe in is - “did you find a star player or not?”

Which is totally fine if that’s what you believe, but obviously we can’t fast forward past these tanking/rebuilding years either. They are gonna happen whether we want them to or not, so trying to find positives beyond the W/L record is all we can really do.

[Nyce_1]

that's quietly been my fear this whole process and such a let down if true.

A well liked players coach that will actually develop people and not be a retread coach like Clifford or Scottie Brooks or whoever is a breath of fresh air, I really don't even care about the politics behind it.

Yeah, how is it a problem? Magic are in a rebuild where properly developing players to gauge who’s worth keeping and who should be moved is essential. You don’t necessarily want that derailed by a coach who wants to run Khem Birch out just to squeeze out some more wins which ultimately won’t be worth anything.

It’s actually great news that he’s willing to play his role for the team at this stage. WeHam just gotta get him some good talent to develop.

I have zero issues with hiring for developmental purposes but why not hire for both, development and to win? It's possible, right?

My disappointment is they didn't interview all of the best candidates available. Maybe Kenny wasn't the right fit, but you don't know until you INTERVIEW him. Maybe Kenny didn't want to be interviewed and this is all moot. Mosley could be great, and that's what we all hope for, but I'm a bit disappointed they elected to pass on INTERVIEWING, not even hiring, but a simple interview, of a coach that has proven he can develop talent AND win as a head coach in this league.

It is what it is.

[89Magicfan]

Some of y’all act like you never had jobs or interviews before. Or even started a business.

Companies have a vision. If you aren’t on board to support that, then you aren’t going to last. That’s a big part on why you have an interview. Rest is negotiating. If you’re an entrepreneur, your whole business is started from a vision.

We got the lowest informed local reporters I’ve ever seen. They do no work other than talk. I’m from Orlando and still live there. I tuned them out a loooong time. Daniels is the only I could’ve tolerate as he at least he seems to not let his emotions run his mouth like Schmitz who’s an absolute joke.

[Bensational]

A well liked players coach that will actually develop people and not be a retread coach like Clifford or Scottie Brooks or whoever is a breath of fresh air, I really don't even care about the politics behind it.

Yeah, how is it a problem? Magic are in a rebuild where properly developing players to gauge who’s worth keeping and who should be moved is essential. You don’t necessarily want that derailed by a coach who wants to run Khem Birch out just to squeeze out some more wins which ultimately won’t be worth anything.

It’s actually great news that he’s willing to play his role for the team at this stage. WeHam just gotta get him some good talent to develop.

I have zero issues with hiring for developmental purposes but why not hire for both, development and to win? It's possible, right?

My disappointment is they didn't interview all of the best candidates available. Maybe Kenny wasn't the right fit, but you don't know until you INTERVIEW him. Maybe Kenny didn't want to be interviewed and this is all moot. Mosley could be great, and that's what we all hope for, but I'm a bit disappointed they elected to pass on INTERVIEWING, not even hiring, but a simple interview, of a coach that has proven he can develop talent AND win as a head coach in this league.

It is what it is.

We don’t know the details. They might have reached out for an interview and been turned down? Or heard through his people that he’s not interested in joining a rebuild so early. Mosley might be happy taking a chance on being a lame duck, scape goat rebuild coach for his first shot. Kenny probably wants to take over the team in a few years once we have talent and need to learn how to win.

[Def Swami]

I don't think Atkinson interviewed for any head coaching gig. Or at least it wasn't reported.

[basketballRob]

A well liked players coach that will actually develop people and not be a retread coach like Clifford or Scottie Brooks or whoever is a breath of fresh air, I really don't even care about the politics behind it.

Yeah, how is it a problem? Magic are in a rebuild where properly developing players to gauge who’s worth keeping and who should be moved is essential. You don’t necessarily want that derailed by a coach who wants to run Khem Birch out just to squeeze out some more wins which ultimately won’t be worth anything.

It’s actually great news that he’s willing to play his role for the team at this stage. WeHam just gotta get him some good talent to develop.

I have zero issues with hiring for developmental purposes but why not hire for both, development and to win? It's possible, right?

My disappointment is they didn't interview all of the best candidates available. Maybe Kenny wasn't the right fit, but you don't know until you INTERVIEW him. Maybe Kenny didn't want to be interviewed and this is all moot. Mosley could be great, and that's what we all hope for, but I'm a bit disappointed they elected to pass on INTERVIEWING, not even hiring, but a simple interview, of a coach that has proven he can develop talent AND win as a head coach in this league.

It is what it is.

Kenny is still collecting a check from the Nets and won't be interviewing until that contract is up.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[bigdogdylan5]

that's quietly been my fear this whole process and such a let down if true.

A well liked players coach that will actually develop people and not be a retread coach like Clifford or Scottie Brooks or whoever is a breath of fresh air, I really don't even care about the politics behind it.

Yeah, how is it a problem? Magic are in a rebuild where properly developing players to gauge who’s worth keeping and who should be moved is essential. You don’t necessarily want that derailed by a coach who wants to run Khem Birch out just to squeeze out some more wins which ultimately won’t be worth anything.

It’s actually great news that he’s willing to play his role for the team at this stage. WeHam just gotta get him some good talent to develop.

Exactly this! They haven't even been hiding this! They have said they wanted everyone on the same page and no doubt some of that is playing Khem Birch over Bamba or MCW over Hampton. Its lunacy, when did having an organization with a common goal and path be a bad thing? The only people that have a problem with this are the people who don't agree with the path. Its disingenuous at best,

[jvdas]

If young guy is only motivated by money and fame ( and let's face it, most of them are) , how hard will he work, if you throw 4 years $20M guaranteed at him? He is kind a set for life
If you are Ben Simmons, people are nagging you about "development "and "shooting " and sure, it probably bothers you, but it's much easier to get over it if you go home , in your 23 000 000 worth mansion in LA and drive in your costom made "Jordan" Ferrari. Life can't be that hard... Ofc he is not improving, he is megastar ,at age of 24 ,living Sims- cheat mode life , every day some instamodel is in his GM trying to suck him off. I'm not blaming them for not caring all that much about basketball.
Very few people say they want to be best in the world and really mean it. I wouldn't. I would want to live my life in best way i can, not be bothered about internet fan telling me i have no jumpshot.

That part is so true. But that is part of the problem, that even absolute role players at best get those crazy 20M contracts thrown after them, take a look at the year where Biyombo, Mozgov, Deng got those absolutely massive team crippling contracts. For doing what?

Deng didn't even hat to go practice anymore, got some first row seats for free every game while having to do absolutely nothing and get paid a ridiculous amount of money.

And once you made it in the NBA, even if you only get drafted in the lottery you're set for life just with your rookie contract. If you don't have the right mindset to get better all the time and be one of the best of the game, there is not much hope for a lot of players to get a lot better during their career. Because they made it already.

[MasterGMer]

I am I among the minority that keeping 5 and 8 is more valuable than using that and trading for another star in the league?

[RookieStar]

I am I among the minority that keeping 5 and 8 is more valuable than using that and trading for another star in the league?

Just to be clear.. you think 5 and 8 is more valuable AND using it rather than trading those 2 picks for a star in the league?

Answer : is it a tier-1 or tier-2 star? aka are we talking about Dame type or CJ type? IF Dame type, you take it and run especially if they are still young, if the CJ type then nope

[Catledge]

What you really seem to be suggesting is that there’s no such thing as tangible success during a major rebuild because there’s no way to keep guys from developing bad habits or chasing their own individual numbers at the expense of the team as a whole.

I'm not the person you were addressing this to, and I'm not sure if pepe believes what you are suggesting he is arguing for, but I think I kind of believe something similar to what you have paraphrased above.

I think it's virtually impossible to build from scratch with only young players, and I think our last attempted rebuild is evidence of this. I think that rebuild would have been less disastrous if we had focused on developing Oladipo, Harris, and Vooch and surrounded them with vets who fit well with them. What we did instead was give then rivals who worked against them more than with them.

I think after the draft, we should pick three guys to develop (I would choose Isaac, RJ, and Fultz unless we draft somebody who lights my heart on fire). Everybody else in the rotation needs to be able to play an NBA role. Other players who haven't learned to play a role in the league should not be in the regular rotation.

[RookieStar]

What you really seem to be suggesting is that there’s no such thing as tangible success during a major rebuild because there’s no way to keep guys from developing bad habits or chasing their own individual numbers at the expense of the team as a whole.

I'm not the person you were addressing this to, and I'm not sure if pepe believes what you are suggesting he is arguing for, but I think I kind of believe something similar to what you have paraphrased above.

I think it's virtually impossible to build from scratch with only young players, and I think our last attempted rebuild is evidence of this. I think that rebuild would have been less disastrous if we had focused on developing Oladipo, Harris, and Vooch and surrounded them with vets who fit well with them. What we did instead was give then rivals who worked against them more than with them.

I think after the draft, we should pick three guys to develop (I would choose Isaac, RJ, and Fultz unless we draft somebody who lights my heart on fire). Everybody else in the rotation needs to be able to play an NBA role. Other players who haven't learned to play a role in the league should not be in the regular rotation.

I'm actually thinking the same. We think of the positives like "let them fight it out" especially in terms of wcj/Mo but we never addressed the negatives that surrounding our young guys with rivals would make them look to "get theirs" instead of developing properly. Like I can see it now, RJ might get threatened with Bouk or Okeke might feel the same with Kuminga/Barnes...

[Def Swami]

What you really seem to be suggesting is that there’s no such thing as tangible success during a major rebuild because there’s no way to keep guys from developing bad habits or chasing their own individual numbers at the expense of the team as a whole.

I'm not the person you were addressing this to, and I'm not sure if pepe believes what you are suggesting he is arguing for, but I think I kind of believe something similar to what you have paraphrased above.

I think it's virtually impossible to build from scratch with only young players, and I think our last attempted rebuild is evidence of this. I think that rebuild would have been less disastrous if we had focused on developing Oladipo, Harris, and Vooch and surrounded them with vets who fit well with them. What we did instead was give then rivals who worked against them more than with them.

I think after the draft, we should pick three guys to develop (I would choose Isaac, RJ, and Fultz unless we draft somebody who lights my heart on fire). Everybody else in the rotation needs to be able to play an NBA role. Other players who haven't learned to play a role in the league should not be in the regular rotation.

I'm actually thinking the same. We think of the positives like "let them fight it out" especially in terms of wcj/Mo but we never addressed the negatives that surrounding our young guys with rivals would make them look to "get theirs" instead of developing properly. Like I can see it now, RJ might get threatened with Bouk or Okeke might feel the same with Kuminga/Barnes...

Good. That's how cream rises to the top. This happens on every basketball team in the world. A hierarchy develops naturally in every team. And if it doesn't it just means the team doesn't have players that are good enough. Donovan Mitchell walked into Utah and immediately pushed every guard on the roster to the wayside. Collin Sexton saw a void in Cleveland and at least tried to step up and fill it.

The problem with the last rebuild is no one was actually good enough to build around. The cast of players over the last decade have been a collection of mediocre role players and then Vucevic became good over the last 3 seasons. No one else stepped in to fill that talent void. Instead we kept hoping one of those players would develop into something more than they were capable of. Hennigan did try to sign some vets to complement that roster. That was the idea behind Channing Frye, a 4 who could create gravity and stretch the floor to create driving lanes for all those young players who couldn't shoot.

They eventually did pick the guys they wanted to develop in Payton and Gordon when they traded both Oladipo and Harris at 50 cents on the dollar. Then realized they traded the wrong guys away for the wrong reasons at a low price. You can even live with some of those low returns on assets if you actually had star players to build with (the Suns for example can live with missing on Jalen Smith or giving TJ Warren away for nothing because hitting on Booker and Ayton and Bridges compensates for a lot of mistakes). But, the team never had that.

At the end of the day all of this is moot if you don't have elite, top 20-30 level guys on your team. None of this fit stuff matters on the road to figuring out who that guy is. All these picks and young guys are going to have an opportunity to fill that void. Whoever wants to step up, please be my guest.

[RookieStar]

I'm not the person you were addressing this to, and I'm not sure if pepe believes what you are suggesting he is arguing for, but I think I kind of believe something similar to what you have paraphrased above.

I think it's virtually impossible to build from scratch with only young players, and I think our last attempted rebuild is evidence of this. I think that rebuild would have been less disastrous if we had focused on developing Oladipo, Harris, and Vooch and surrounded them with vets who fit well with them. What we did instead was give then rivals who worked against them more than with them.

I think after the draft, we should pick three guys to develop (I would choose Isaac, RJ, and Fultz unless we draft somebody who lights my heart on fire). Everybody else in the rotation needs to be able to play an NBA role. Other players who haven't learned to play a role in the league should not be in the regular rotation.

I'm actually thinking the same. We think of the positives like "let them fight it out" especially in terms of wcj/Mo but we never addressed the negatives that surrounding our young guys with rivals would make them look to "get theirs" instead of developing properly. Like I can see it now, RJ might get threatened with Bouk or Okeke might feel the same with Kuminga/Barnes...

Good. That's how cream rises to the top. This happens on every basketball team in the world. A hierarchy develops naturally in every team. And if it doesn't it just means the team doesn't have players that are good enough. Donovan Mitchell walked into Utah and immediately pushed every guard on the roster to the wayside. Collin Sexton saw a void in Cleveland and at least tried to step up and fill it.

The problem with the last rebuild is no one was actually good enough to build around. The cast of players over the last decade have been a collection of mediocre role players and then Vucevic became good over the last 3 seasons. No one else stepped in to fill that talent void. Instead we kept hoping one of those players would develop into something more than they were capable of. Hennigan did try to sign some vets to complement that roster. That was the idea behind Channing Frye, a 4 who could create gravity and stretch the floor to create driving lanes for all those young players who couldn't shoot.

They eventually did pick the guys they wanted to develop in Payton and Gordon when they traded both Oladipo and Harris at 50 cents on the dollar. Then realized they traded the wrong guys away for the wrong reasons at a low price. You can even live with some of those low returns on assets if you actually had star players to build with (the Suns for example can live with missing on Jalen Smith or giving TJ Warren away for nothing because hitting on Booker and Ayton and Bridges compensates for a lot of mistakes). But, the team never had that.

At the end of the day all of this is moot if you don't have elite, top 20-30 level guys on your team. None of this fit stuff matters on the road to figuring out who that guy is. All these picks and young guys are going to have an opportunity to fill that void. Whoever wants to step up, please be my guest.

What if this will be like a dejavu? Its gonna be like everyone is gonna concentrate on getting theirs to the detriment of the team as that interview with ( was it dipo or tobes ) and we ended up trading the better players ( in the long run ) over their teammate/rival.

[Xatticus]

I'm actually thinking the same. We think of the positives like "let them fight it out" especially in terms of wcj/Mo but we never addressed the negatives that surrounding our young guys with rivals would make them look to "get theirs" instead of developing properly. Like I can see it now, RJ might get threatened with Bouk or Okeke might feel the same with Kuminga/Barnes...

Good. That's how cream rises to the top. This happens on every basketball team in the world. A hierarchy develops naturally in every team. And if it doesn't it just means the team doesn't have players that are good enough. Donovan Mitchell walked into Utah and immediately pushed every guard on the roster to the wayside. Collin Sexton saw a void in Cleveland and at least tried to step up and fill it.

The problem with the last rebuild is no one was actually good enough to build around. The cast of players over the last decade have been a collection of mediocre role players and then Vucevic became good over the last 3 seasons. No one else stepped in to fill that talent void. Instead we kept hoping one of those players would develop into something more than they were capable of. Hennigan did try to sign some vets to complement that roster. That was the idea behind Channing Frye, a 4 who could create gravity and stretch the floor to create driving lanes for all those young players who couldn't shoot.

They eventually did pick the guys they wanted to develop in Payton and Gordon when they traded both Oladipo and Harris at 50 cents on the dollar. Then realized they traded the wrong guys away for the wrong reasons at a low price. You can even live with some of those low returns on assets if you actually had star players to build with (the Suns for example can live with missing on Jalen Smith or giving TJ Warren away for nothing because hitting on Booker and Ayton and Bridges compensates for a lot of mistakes). But, the team never had that.

At the end of the day all of this is moot if you don't have elite, top 20-30 level guys on your team. None of this fit stuff matters on the road to figuring out who that guy is. All these picks and young guys are going to have an opportunity to fill that void. Whoever wants to step up, please be my guest.

What if this will be like a dejavu? Its gonna be like everyone is gonna concentrate on getting theirs to the detriment of the team as that interview with ( was it dipo or tobes ) and we ended up trading the better players ( in the long run ) over their teammate/rival.

That really comes down to the players and personalities that you draft doesn't it? Selflessness is a significant part of the appeal of guys like Barnes, Giddey, and Wagner. It's why I just don't care for drafting guys that impose themselves on the game. You don't end up with more possessions simply because you fill your team up with guys that take a bunch of shots. The quality of possessions matters far more than does the distribution of field goal attempts.

[Bensational]

I'm not the person you were addressing this to, and I'm not sure if pepe believes what you are suggesting he is arguing for, but I think I kind of believe something similar to what you have paraphrased above.

I think it's virtually impossible to build from scratch with only young players, and I think our last attempted rebuild is evidence of this. I think that rebuild would have been less disastrous if we had focused on developing Oladipo, Harris, and Vooch and surrounded them with vets who fit well with them. What we did instead was give then rivals who worked against them more than with them.

I think after the draft, we should pick three guys to develop (I would choose Isaac, RJ, and Fultz unless we draft somebody who lights my heart on fire). Everybody else in the rotation needs to be able to play an NBA role. Other players who haven't learned to play a role in the league should not be in the regular rotation.

I'm actually thinking the same. We think of the positives like "let them fight it out" especially in terms of wcj/Mo but we never addressed the negatives that surrounding our young guys with rivals would make them look to "get theirs" instead of developing properly. Like I can see it now, RJ might get threatened with Bouk or Okeke might feel the same with Kuminga/Barnes...

Good. That's how cream rises to the top. This happens on every basketball team in the world. A hierarchy develops naturally in every team. And if it doesn't it just means the team doesn't have players that are good enough. Donovan Mitchell walked into Utah and immediately pushed every guard on the roster to the wayside. Collin Sexton saw a void in Cleveland and at least tried to step up and fill it.

The problem with the last rebuild is no one was actually good enough to build around.

I think it’s more of your second point here and less of the first, for me.

I think people, generally, rise to their best by both their own desires, and from being in a supportive environment. Competition only really works to incentivise those who don’t have their own personal drive to improve, and the results of that lead to more acts of self interest.

Let’s imagine you’re adding 2 players. If you add two who are determined to be the leading shot taker and maker and duking it out for shots, it could damage both them and the team. If you draft one scorer and one facilitator, you can improve the shots of the scorer and others. The second option improves both players and the team. In my own very simplistic/reductive overview, anyway.

[pepe1991]

Animal farm. When everybody wants to be equal, some of them become more equal than others.

As i've said, on team without structual base, without veterans around it's pretty much battle royal about usage rate, that leads to big contract. Yes, players can be friends among each others, but they also view each other, especially on teams without structure as competition.

Two names were mentioned, and i'll just use them as example of opposite approach.

Colin Sexton

Various Cavs players still grow frustrated by the way Sexton dominates the ball, and opponents taunt them by saying during games, "you know he's not going to pass you the ball."

This is pure example of poor team. No vet presence ( Love who doesn't give a f*** ) and too many young players playing for stats.

Read on Twitter

Plays like this show how irritated teammate are with self- proclaimed "first option" . This is "Kobe mentality" in person who should be your Fisher or Omar Cook.



Donovan Mitchel as statistical "leader" in rookie season. Let's see structure of Utah in his rookie year:
PG: 27 years old, 8 yeras veteran Ricky Rubio
SG: Donovan (21)
SF: 30 years old Joe Ingles
PF: 26 years old Favors
C: 25 years old Gobert

Bench: Joe Johnson (36); Crowder (27) and Sefalsoha (33) . It's not hard to "fix" behavior of rookie or teach him how to become team oriented guy, when he every single person around him is top tear professional.


I haven't seen sucessful rebuild that has no veteran presence whatsoever.

76ers first sucessful winning season after "process" was one when they had 27 years old Covingon , 33 yeras old JJ Redick, 31 years old Bellineli, 30 years old Amir Johnson, 30 yeras old Booker, 30 years old Illyasova...
They scooped up their star lottery picks and added veterans.


Def Swami wrote

The problem with the last rebuild is no one was actually good enough to build around.

This is partically true, but partially isn't.
First rebuild had players that absolutely had star potential. We just wasted them.
Oladipo exploded with Pacers, later injuries wracked him, but if player can achive that next level 25, and failed to do so for 4 years on prevoius team, it's on that team that they couldn't bring most out of him.
Harris exploded with Clippres, at age of 26. Again , pointing out Orlando couldn't bring best out of him.
Vucevic is only player who ( probably) maximised his potential with Orlando.
Stagnation in development comes probably from multiple reasons. Obvious one is having roster that never made any structual sense. Second is surrounding players with no veterans to be their leaders (Oladipo interview proved this ), and third is surrounding guys like Harris, Oladipo and Vuc with players who didn't fit their game at all.
Payton at PG was mockery, Gordon was proclaimed "superstar" after scoring bunch of points in single game during summerleague. New coach arives in town and calls 9 ppg ,20 yeras old player next Paul George, as Paul George was comming off 2 ECF and 2 great battles with probably (second? ) best player ever. This is definition of feeding into player's delusions and stunnting growth of a team by cherrypicking future "star" despite player in that moment wasn't even better player than Harris. ( and future proved he never become better than Harris).

Would Oladipo- Vuc- Harris, with better supporting cast ever lead team anywhere? Maybe no, but if you had GM that could see Payton and Gordon as assets for future superstar trades, who knows how final Orlando roster could look like. Look around 2016-2018, guys like Butler, Irving, George, Haywrad, Dragic, Conley, Porzingis,Westbrook, Wall , Griffin were all involved in trade rumors or traded. We would probably won at lest few more playoff games. 5 years later, we are at point zero anyway. You can always start over, instad. Hitting restart button is easiest thing to do in nba. That's why there is no point of being pu***y when it comes to agressive and higher risk trades. It's not like you can be demoted to second division or something like in non-american sports.

[Skybox]

That Oladipo, Fournier, Harris, Vuc, Harkless period was the ugliest example of player or team "development" I can recall. As mentioned earlier, Oladipo was very clear in articulating what a sh**-show it was. Night after night, a different player gets his glorious season high and, night after night, we're never really in the game.

It's gratifying to talk about "Mamba Mentality" and how much of a punk Bamba is, etc...but today's NBA draftees are kids. Immature, relatively unskilled "projects", across the board. A rare example might claw his way to the top, but a more realistic avenue is accepting that most of these kids don't know how to play. They've always been the best or the biggest or both, from youth leagues to AAU and high school. For the most part, they've been told they'll be in the NBA their whole lives. Writing it down and reading it every day or some other BS makes for a good interview, but it's just more "content"...maybe you get an occasional cold-blooded savage like Giannis who has fought for everything and will, just by his nature, kill to win, but that's not a typical draftee today.

I truly wish they all played 3 years of college, so you could draft actual players.

You can shelter, develop, and be patient with them or you can just burn through them...it may not be "right", but it's where we are. I think we got the right Coach. He'll be a Dad, a teacher, etc...you can say the Coach shouldn't need to but the SVG, Cliff model is dying or dead.

[Skybox]

This is also why trading for a 2 or 3 year vet who has actually shown some NBA ability (NAW...) makes sense to me. Giving a guy a 4 year deal and conceding that he won't have value for 3 is the sad state we're facing with a pure youth movement. Personally, I don't care to watch us fight for the top pick for the next 3 years.