Official Speculation Thread ‘17-18’: XVIII: The Long Wait Continues

[BadMofoPimp]

So you are saying that 3 players that we all think suck and play for one of the worst teams in basketball should somehow be able to yeild us a better return than simply letting them expire for cap space?

And you are also basing this on soundbytes to the media?

What Clifford says to the media means nothing. The guy most likely hates Vuc more than all of us combined.

I don't have the video, but a few weeks ago he was on TV saying how he loves Vucevic!

Not sure your point here?

Just saying your irrational hatred for a player has you thinking that Coaches must hate him also. You have not a clue what anyone in the Magic organization thinks about each other or what their actual value is worth.

[VFX]

Part of me can't wait for March and April when Clifford is still cracking the whip on these guys and they end up going like 12-12 after the all-star break to play themselves from the 5th pick to the 9th pick.

This board is going to absolutely melt.

As it should. Considering the players that get them there won’t be on the roster next year anyway, at the expense of adding better talent to a talentless team. That makes WeHam bad at their job for failing to avoid such a travesty.

[PennytoShaq]

I don't have the video, but a few weeks ago he was on TV saying how he loves Vucevic!

Not sure your point here?

Just saying your irrational hatred for a player has you thinking that Coaches must hate him also. You have not a clue what anyone in the Magic organization thinks about each other or what their actual value is worth.

I wasn’t aware I had irrational hatred for Vuc. I just use logic and see a guy on film not hustling on a constant basis, understand that Clifford historically rages guys for doing that and realize that he most likely is as frustrated and annoyed as anyone else is when it comes to Vuc’s play.

[PrimeThyme]

How did we miss this point when we clearly explained to you why trading them would not have done much at all for any of those things?

And the irony of you wanting to see all of these Weltman guys play after saying multiple times that Weltman has not done anything since he got here is pretty funny.

It’s better to let expiring deals expire unless you can get one back in a trade. And most likely that has not been on the table for us. Why would a team trade us a 2nd rounder or a young guy for DJ Augustine? That doesn’t make much sense to me.

Lol man, you really are one of the more insufferable and condescending posters on this board these days. You pretty much attack anyone with differing opinions and instead of just sticking to healthy debate you always feel the need to inject your snarky remarks. You should check yourself, there is a reason why a large portion of this board calls you out for it.

I’ve credited him for the signing of birch and Briscoe multiple times on this board. Frazier and Iwundu are unproven and I have my doubts, but I’d rather see them get playing time then Simmons and Ross who will likely both be gone next offseason. Augustine could possibly be packaged in a deal with Simmons who could be a important piece off the bench on a playoff team and who is on a very good deal for a second. Augustine alone wouldn’t get us one.

The point is they are more valuable to us off the team then they are on it. Letting them stay this year and expire does nothing for us.

It’s funny and telling how I said nothing personal at all towards you except argue your points and you have to go into personal attack mode over a basketball duiscssion because my opinion frustrates you and makes you mad.

I don’t care what you think of me personally. Or anyone else. I don’t know you or hang out with you. Just because what I says makes you mad does not give you the right to make personal attacks on me. Please highlight where I did that to you.

Snark is all over this place. There are guys making snide comments, posting memes etc every day. I guess those are fine, but when it’s perceived against you, that makes me a bad person?

Again, I don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me. You can keep your personal thoughts out of it or meet me in person and tell to my face about it anytime.

Its the snarky and condescending tone that you come at everybody with on this board. That reply I had to you and Knightro was not snarky nor condescending and did not warrant that kind of response back. That just doesn't lead to healthy debate.

don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Me and MagicMatic/Pepe have disagreements all the time on this board especially when it comes to disagreements about certain players on this team. The difference is we try to still engage in healthy debate without attacking/talking down to the other just because of a difference in opinion.

[PennytoShaq]

Lol man, you really are one of the more insufferable and condescending posters on this board these days. You pretty much attack anyone with differing opinions and instead of just sticking to healthy debate you always feel the need to inject your snarky remarks. You should check yourself, there is a reason why a large portion of this board calls you out for it.

I’ve credited him for the signing of birch and Briscoe multiple times on this board. Frazier and Iwundu are unproven and I have my doubts, but I’d rather see them get playing time then Simmons and Ross who will likely both be gone next offseason. Augustine could possibly be packaged in a deal with Simmons who could be a important piece off the bench on a playoff team and who is on a very good deal for a second. Augustine alone wouldn’t get us one.

The point is they are more valuable to us off the team then they are on it. Letting them stay this year and expire does nothing for us.

It’s funny and telling how I said nothing personal at all towards you except argue your points and you have to go into personal attack mode over a basketball duiscssion because my opinion frustrates you and makes you mad.

I don’t care what you think of me personally. Or anyone else. I don’t know you or hang out with you. Just because what I says makes you mad does not give you the right to make personal attacks on me. Please highlight where I did that to you.

Snark is all over this place. There are guys making snide comments, posting memes etc every day. I guess those are fine, but when it’s perceived against you, that makes me a bad person?

Again, I don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me. You can keep your personal thoughts out of it or meet me in person and tell to my face about it anytime.

Its the snarky and condescending tone that you come at everybody with on this board. That reply I had to you and Knightro was not snarky nor condescending and did not warrant that kind of response back. That just doesn't lead to healthy debate.

don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Me and MagicMatic/Pepe have disagreements all the time on this board especially when it comes to disagreements about certain players on this team. The difference is we try to still engage in healthy debate without attacking/talking down to the other just because of a difference in opinion.

That’s nonsense. You only bring them up now because they plus one your attacks on me. Again, I don’t think I have seen a healthy debate from you or anyone else on here. You were going to leave the board before and I had nothing do with that. Don’t try and paint me as the bad guy because I am arguing with you now. The reality is you were the one who got mad and decided to personally attack me. PM me anytime you want if you want to go that route. I much prefer those conversations in person.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

If Clifford sticks to this...

Augustin
Fournier
Isaac
Gordon
Vucevic

Grant
Ross
Simmons
Bamba

Isaac plays backup PF along with starting SF.

[BadMofoPimp]

Eventually, you reach a point where you have to start developing players to become a playoff team instead of trying to lose games. Players want to win and they don't develop losing for 5-6 years in a row. Thus, we have reached a point where we are developing players into trying to win mentality.

[VFX]

It’s funny and telling how I said nothing personal at all towards you except argue your points and you have to go into personal attack mode over a basketball duiscssion because my opinion frustrates you and makes you mad.

I don’t care what you think of me personally. Or anyone else. I don’t know you or hang out with you. Just because what I says makes you mad does not give you the right to make personal attacks on me. Please highlight where I did that to you.

Snark is all over this place. There are guys making snide comments, posting memes etc every day. I guess those are fine, but when it’s perceived against you, that makes me a bad person?

Again, I don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me. You can keep your personal thoughts out of it or meet me in person and tell to my face about it anytime.

Its the snarky and condescending tone that you come at everybody with on this board. That reply I had to you and Knightro was not snarky nor condescending and did not warrant that kind of response back. That just doesn't lead to healthy debate.

don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Me and MagicMatic/Pepe have disagreements all the time on this board especially when it comes to disagreements about certain players on this team. The difference is we try to still engage in healthy debate without attacking/talking down to the other just because of a difference in opinion.

That’s nonsense. You only bring them up now because they plus one your attacks on me. Again, I don’t think I have seen a healthy debate from you or anyone else on here. You were going to leave the board before and I had nothing do with that. Don’t try and paint me as the bad guy because I am arguing with you now. The reality is you were the one who got mad and decided to personally attack me. PM me anytime you want if you want to go that route. I much prefer those conversations in person.

Listen guys. None of this is personal because quite frankly I know none of you personally. We all just happen to agree / disagree more with differing viewpoints. I’m very pessimistic about how the FO is handling things up to this point. Maybe that will change and maybe it won’t. That’s it.

[Knightro]

As it should. Considering the players that get them there won’t be on the roster next year anyway, at the expense of adding better talent to a talentless team. That makes WeHam bad at their job for failing to avoid such a travesty.

I'll be more than ok with it if Isaac, Gordon and Bamba are all playing big minutes, god forbid they're actually playing together by the end of the year, and playing well.

At that point, you'd be a PG and SG away (sign Terry Rozier and draft Romeo Langford?) from having a real nice young team with almost no really bad contracts.

[PrimeThyme]

It’s funny and telling how I said nothing personal at all towards you except argue your points and you have to go into personal attack mode over a basketball duiscssion because my opinion frustrates you and makes you mad.

I don’t care what you think of me personally. Or anyone else. I don’t know you or hang out with you. Just because what I says makes you mad does not give you the right to make personal attacks on me. Please highlight where I did that to you.

Snark is all over this place. There are guys making snide comments, posting memes etc every day. I guess those are fine, but when it’s perceived against you, that makes me a bad person?

Again, I don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me. You can keep your personal thoughts out of it or meet me in person and tell to my face about it anytime.

Its the snarky and condescending tone that you come at everybody with on this board. That reply I had to you and Knightro was not snarky nor condescending and did not warrant that kind of response back. That just doesn't lead to healthy debate.

don’t care what you and your little echoe chamber of merry men think of me.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Me and MagicMatic/Pepe have disagreements all the time on this board especially when it comes to disagreements about certain players on this team. The difference is we try to still engage in healthy debate without attacking/talking down to the other just because of a difference in opinion.

That’s nonsense. You only bring them up now because they plus one your attacks on me. Again, I don’t think I have seen a healthy debate from you or anyone else on here. You were going to leave the board before and I had nothing do with that. Don’t try and paint me as the bad guy because I am arguing with you now. The reality is you were the one who got mad and decided to personally attack me. PM me anytime you want if you want to go that route. I much prefer those conversations in person.

Its not that serious... This is a message board. Calling you out for coming at posters in a condescending and snarky manner is not an attack.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

So maybe Iwundu WILL get some minutes early on.

[Nemesis21]

You think that that is hard for me or something?? I've already done it, but you probably weren't around then. I took the first year post Dwight off.

And when I win, you have to leave the board FOREVER.


Since you suddenly think you have balls.

Fine, but I want the same offer from you.

The loser of the bet leaves the board forever.

I'm 100% a man of my word and will absolutely leave and never come back if I lose, but I have a feeling most of the people on here are going to be rooting for me and not you.

Yeah well that's your stupid opinion, because you are stupid. You are so full of yourself. I'm not as hated as you think I am around here. But you know again you are stupid.

I'm not the one making bets that people have to leave. You aren't Howard Mass. You don't get to decide that for anyone.

[PennytoShaq]

Its the snarky and condescending tone that you come at everybody with on this board. That reply I had to you and Knightro was not snarky nor condescending and did not warrant that kind of response back. That just doesn't lead to healthy debate.



I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. Me and MagicMatic/Pepe have disagreements all the time on this board especially when it comes to disagreements about certain players on this team. The difference is we try to still engage in healthy debate without attacking/talking down to the other just because of a difference in opinion.

That’s nonsense. You only bring them up now because they plus one your attacks on me. Again, I don’t think I have seen a healthy debate from you or anyone else on here. You were going to leave the board before and I had nothing do with that. Don’t try and paint me as the bad guy because I am arguing with you now. The reality is you were the one who got mad and decided to personally attack me. PM me anytime you want if you want to go that route. I much prefer those conversations in person.

Its not that serious... This is a message board. Calling you out for coming at posters in a condescending and snarky manner is not an attack.

It absoutely is an attack in my mind and was unwarranted. We can keep it on PM, but you can’t take offense from assumed tone I take with you and then expect me not to react in a similar way. That’s unfair and not how things work -message board or not.

[YosemiteSam]

The board slowly consumes itself 2 days before the season. Sounds about right. This is what the organization's ongoing ineptitude has wrought......Pure Magic!

[VFX]

As it should. Considering the players that get them there won’t be on the roster next year anyway, at the expense of adding better talent to a talentless team. That makes WeHam bad at their job for failing to avoid such a travesty.

I'll be more than ok with it if Isaac, Gordon and Bamba are all playing big minutes, god forbid they're actually playing together by the end of the year, and playing well.

At that point, you'd be a PG and SG away (sign Terry Rozier and draft Romeo Langford?) from having a real nice young team with almost no really bad contracts.

Maybe. If you are optimistic about landing in the draft range for Langford or actually being in the conversation for Rozier then that’s a different story. If Clifford wills this team to win more than it should I think Langford is off the table. Neither could also happen and we could be left with picking up overpriced scraps in free agency to accommodate whoever walks.

[rcklsscognition]

Five thirty eight predictions dropped. 32-50 with a 19% chance at the playoffs to start the season. Seems spot on.

[Knightro]

Yeah well that's your stupid opinion, because you are stupid. You are so full of yourself. I'm not as hated as you think I am around here. But you know again you are stupid.

I'm not the one making bets that people have to leave. You aren't Howard Mass. You don't get to decide that for anyone.

So I'm guessing you don't accept?

[Nemesis21]

The board slowly consumes itself 2 days before the season. Sounds about right. This is what the organization's ongoing ineptitude has wrought......Pure Magic!

[Nemesis21]

Yeah well that's your stupid opinion, because you are stupid. You are so full of yourself. I'm not as hated as you think I am around here. But you know again you are stupid.

I'm not the one making bets that people have to leave. You aren't Howard Mass. You don't get to decide that for anyone.

So I'm guessing you don't accept?

Uncalled for language. Please abstain from name-calling.

- Def Swami

[darthcheech2000]

So you are saying that 3 players that we all think suck and play for one of the worst teams in basketball should somehow be able to yeild us a better return than simply letting them expire for cap space?

And you are also basing this on soundbytes to the media?

What Clifford says to the media means nothing. The guy most likely hates Vuc more than all of us combined.

Wouldn't the "better return" you're talking about manifest itself in a better lottery pick. Thats value enough for me!

Actually, no it would not necessarily. It’s easy to forget that the Magic were not even projected to be a bottom 5 team last year until the injuries hit. Reality is that the Mavs, Kings, Hawks, Nets..etc were all incredibly bad.

Fast forward to this year where the lotto odds are not the same and it makes no sense.

Furthermore, if you take into account the “Vuc Sucks” logic, which basically is that Vuc sucks and we would be better without him - then why would trading him be a guarantee that we get worse? We may actually be better.

There are many guys in the echo chamber here who say that Clifford is an antiquated coach and playing 2 bigs is terrible. So based on their logic how would trading Vuc and going smaller do anything but make us better?

Thats the thing, I think Vuc is good, better than Bamba, and even Isaac/AG actually... right now.