Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[orlando_joe]

This is also why trading for a 2 or 3 year vet who has actually shown some NBA ability (NAW...) makes sense to me. Giving a guy a 4 year deal and conceding that he won't have value for 3 is the sad state we're facing with a pure youth movement. Personally, I don't care to watch us fight for the top pick for the next 3 years.

naw is a vet ? what has he shown? that his cousin is good?..cole and hampton and okeke have shown as much as naw
i guess a vet to me guy has to at least be in his second contract

[Def Swami]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment. I am a little worried about how all these young guys are going to mesh next season. Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Carter, Okeke, Anthony, Hampton, and two or three draft picks this year is almost an entire team of 23 and under guys. I wouldn't mind consolidating some of these assets to move up in the draft, but I know that's unlikely.

This team is assuredly going to be bad with 9 or 10 guys 23 y/o or younger. I'm hoping Weltman and Hammond can sift through the madness and find who's worth building around and who's worth ditching. Having some vets are definitely going to be necessary. Luckily, I don't see a lot of score first, high usage guys in our cast of young guys. Okeke and Isaac can mesh well with most lineups given their versatility; neither commands the ball. Carter and Bamba are going to duke it out to earn a second contract somewhere in the NBA. Both will have to prove they can defend in space, protect the rim, rebound, and finish around the basket. Everything else is window dressing.

The guard rotation makes me nervous. I can see Anthony and Hampton trying to do their best Garland and Sexton rendition. Those are the only two guys I worry about a little. Fultz won't be back for most of the season. Anthony and Hampton are not the best passers (Hampton a little better here), and I feel like that final game against the Sixers was a little glimpse into what you may get from Anthony next year. He's going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points inefficiently, and end up a minus on the court. If there's a better, more viable offensive option, I'm hoping it arises. Toss in Ross who is a blackhole.

If they bring all these young players into the season, I don't anticipate the front office has any expectations for winning. It's essentially a year-long try out to figure out who is good and who isn't. We're basically going to be OKC East, trying to identify our version of SGA while losing a lot.

[fendilim]

I’m not sure if any of our younger guys would be enough to trade up, imo.

Maybe Hampton?

[zaymon]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment. I am a little worried about how all these young guys are going to mesh next season. Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Carter, Okeke, Anthony, Hampton, and two or three draft picks this year is almost an entire team of 23 and under guys. I wouldn't mind consolidating some of these assets to move up in the draft, but I know that's unlikely.

This team is assuredly going to be bad with 9 or 10 guys 23 y/o or younger. I'm hoping Weltman and Hammond can sift through the madness and find who's worth building around and who's worth ditching. Having some vets are definitely going to be necessary. Luckily, I don't see a lot of score first, high usage guys in our cast of young guys. Okeke and Isaac can mesh well with most lineups given their versatility; neither commands the ball. Carter and Bamba are going to duke it out to earn a second contract somewhere in the NBA. Both will have to prove they can defend in space, protect the rim, rebound, and finish around the basket. Everything else is window dressing.

The guard rotation makes me nervous. I can see Anthony and Hampton trying to do their best Garland and Sexton rendition. Those are the only two guys I worry about a little. Fultz won't be back for most of the season. Anthony and Hampton are not the best passers (Hampton a little better here), and I feel like that final game against the Sixers was a little glimpse into what you may get from Anthony next year. He's going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points inefficiently, and end up a minus on the court. If there's a better, more viable offensive option, I'm hoping it arises. Toss in Ross who is a blackhole.

If they bring all these young players into the season, I don't anticipate the front office has any expectations for winning. It's essentially a year-long try out to figure out who is good and who isn't. We're basically going to be OKC East, trying to identify our version of SGA while losing a lot.

I think we need two veterans in starting lineup and at least one from the bench. We have Harris as ideal veteran. Second one is a little tricky. On one hand we want Okeke and Isaac to play together, on the other hand they are both propably better playing pf and they are both inexperienced. Bringing back Porter or Ennis is propably our best choice but do we really want to get better ?
On the bench we have Ross who i expect to get traded, MCW who could play but is he really best used as 3 ?

[Xatticus]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment. I am a little worried about how all these young guys are going to mesh next season. Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Carter, Okeke, Anthony, Hampton, and two or three draft picks this year is almost an entire team of 23 and under guys. I wouldn't mind consolidating some of these assets to move up in the draft, but I know that's unlikely.

This team is assuredly going to be bad with 9 or 10 guys 23 y/o or younger. I'm hoping Weltman and Hammond can sift through the madness and find who's worth building around and who's worth ditching. Having some vets are definitely going to be necessary. Luckily, I don't see a lot of score first, high usage guys in our cast of young guys. Okeke and Isaac can mesh well with most lineups given their versatility; neither commands the ball. Carter and Bamba are going to duke it out to earn a second contract somewhere in the NBA. Both will have to prove they can defend in space, protect the rim, rebound, and finish around the basket. Everything else is window dressing.

The guard rotation makes me nervous. I can see Anthony and Hampton trying to do their best Garland and Sexton rendition. Those are the only two guys I worry about a little. Fultz won't be back for most of the season. Anthony and Hampton are not the best passers (Hampton a little better here), and I feel like that final game against the Sixers was a little glimpse into what you may get from Anthony next year. He's going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points inefficiently, and end up a minus on the court. If there's a better, more viable offensive option, I'm hoping it arises. Toss in Ross who is a blackhole.

If they bring all these young players into the season, I don't anticipate the front office has any expectations for winning. It's essentially a year-long try out to figure out who is good and who isn't. We're basically going to be OKC East, trying to identify our version of SGA while losing a lot.

I think we need two veterans in starting lineup and at least one from the bench. We have Harris as ideal veteran. Second one is a little tricky. On one hand we want Okeke and Isaac to play together, on the other hand they are both propably better playing pf and they are both inexperienced. Bringing back Porter or Ennis is propably our best choice but do we really want to get better ?
On the bench we have Ross who i expect to get traded, MCW who could play but is he really best used as 3 ?

I just don't believe that the cure for this potential problem is more veterans. I believe you want high-character individuals that understand that the best way for them to accomplish personal goals is by playing for the benefit of the team and not their own stat lines. Mikal Bridges is an example of this. He is going to get paid because Phoenix is good when he is on the floor.

I think we have to draw a clear distinction between a player having a low usage rate and a player being a bad offensive player. If you give me a choice between a guy that shoots too much and a guy that doesn't shoot enough, I'm taking the latter as I find it far less egregious and far easier to correct.

I've made no secret of my belief that Fournier was what was rotten in our team chemistry. He's a veteran. I think it would be a terrible idea to add him to this roster. People talk about wanting an alpha to establish a hierarchy, but isn't that simply exacerbating the problem that we are discussing here? I think what you really hope for is that your best player is focused on team goals. If he is motivated by personal goals, then you have a problem.

[zaymon]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment. I am a little worried about how all these young guys are going to mesh next season. Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Carter, Okeke, Anthony, Hampton, and two or three draft picks this year is almost an entire team of 23 and under guys. I wouldn't mind consolidating some of these assets to move up in the draft, but I know that's unlikely.

This team is assuredly going to be bad with 9 or 10 guys 23 y/o or younger. I'm hoping Weltman and Hammond can sift through the madness and find who's worth building around and who's worth ditching. Having some vets are definitely going to be necessary. Luckily, I don't see a lot of score first, high usage guys in our cast of young guys. Okeke and Isaac can mesh well with most lineups given their versatility; neither commands the ball. Carter and Bamba are going to duke it out to earn a second contract somewhere in the NBA. Both will have to prove they can defend in space, protect the rim, rebound, and finish around the basket. Everything else is window dressing.

The guard rotation makes me nervous. I can see Anthony and Hampton trying to do their best Garland and Sexton rendition. Those are the only two guys I worry about a little. Fultz won't be back for most of the season. Anthony and Hampton are not the best passers (Hampton a little better here), and I feel like that final game against the Sixers was a little glimpse into what you may get from Anthony next year. He's going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points inefficiently, and end up a minus on the court. If there's a better, more viable offensive option, I'm hoping it arises. Toss in Ross who is a blackhole.

If they bring all these young players into the season, I don't anticipate the front office has any expectations for winning. It's essentially a year-long try out to figure out who is good and who isn't. We're basically going to be OKC East, trying to identify our version of SGA while losing a lot.

I think we need two veterans in starting lineup and at least one from the bench. We have Harris as ideal veteran. Second one is a little tricky. On one hand we want Okeke and Isaac to play together, on the other hand they are both propably better playing pf and they are both inexperienced. Bringing back Porter or Ennis is propably our best choice but do we really want to get better ?
On the bench we have Ross who i expect to get traded, MCW who could play but is he really best used as 3 ?

I just don't believe that the cure for this potential problem is more veterans. I believe you want high-character individuals that understand that the best way for them to accomplish personal goals is by playing for the benefit of the team and not their own stat lines. Mikal Bridges is an example of this. He is going to get paid because Phoenix is good when he is on the floor.

I think we have to draw a clear distinction between a player having a low usage rate and a player being a bad offensive player. If you give me a choice between a guy that shoots too much and a guy that doesn't shoot enough, I'm taking the latter as I find it far less egregious and far easier to correct.

I've made no secret of my belief that Fournier was what was rotten in our team chemistry. He's a veteran. I think it would be a terrible idea to add him to this roster. People talk about wanting an alpha to establish a hierarchy, but isn't that simply exacerbating the problem that we are discussing here? I think what you really hope for is that your best player is focused on team goals. If he is motivated by personal goals, then you have a problem.

Well you make great points but i looked at it from different angle. Its just hard to play good and instill good habits when no one knows what they are doing. You can be selfless but what if you screw every rotation ? In the end its propably mixture of both becouse there are veterans who cant execute gameplan ( Ross), and there are young players who can ( Okeke). Another point is that more seasoned player propably knows his place ( Gary Harris ), he will hold other guys accountable. Other players propably wont listen to a rookie or sophomore.

[Def Swami]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment. I am a little worried about how all these young guys are going to mesh next season. Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Carter, Okeke, Anthony, Hampton, and two or three draft picks this year is almost an entire team of 23 and under guys. I wouldn't mind consolidating some of these assets to move up in the draft, but I know that's unlikely.

This team is assuredly going to be bad with 9 or 10 guys 23 y/o or younger. I'm hoping Weltman and Hammond can sift through the madness and find who's worth building around and who's worth ditching. Having some vets are definitely going to be necessary. Luckily, I don't see a lot of score first, high usage guys in our cast of young guys. Okeke and Isaac can mesh well with most lineups given their versatility; neither commands the ball. Carter and Bamba are going to duke it out to earn a second contract somewhere in the NBA. Both will have to prove they can defend in space, protect the rim, rebound, and finish around the basket. Everything else is window dressing.

The guard rotation makes me nervous. I can see Anthony and Hampton trying to do their best Garland and Sexton rendition. Those are the only two guys I worry about a little. Fultz won't be back for most of the season. Anthony and Hampton are not the best passers (Hampton a little better here), and I feel like that final game against the Sixers was a little glimpse into what you may get from Anthony next year. He's going to take a lot of shots, score a lot of points inefficiently, and end up a minus on the court. If there's a better, more viable offensive option, I'm hoping it arises. Toss in Ross who is a blackhole.

If they bring all these young players into the season, I don't anticipate the front office has any expectations for winning. It's essentially a year-long try out to figure out who is good and who isn't. We're basically going to be OKC East, trying to identify our version of SGA while losing a lot.

I think we need two veterans in starting lineup and at least one from the bench. We have Harris as ideal veteran. Second one is a little tricky. On one hand we want Okeke and Isaac to play together, on the other hand they are both propably better playing pf and they are both inexperienced. Bringing back Porter or Ennis is propably our best choice but do we really want to get better ?
On the bench we have Ross who i expect to get traded, MCW who could play but is he really best used as 3 ?

I just don't believe that the cure for this potential problem is more veterans. I believe you want high-character individuals that understand that the best way for them to accomplish personal goals is by playing for the benefit of the team and not their own stat lines. Mikal Bridges is an example of this. He is going to get paid because Phoenix is good when he is on the floor.

I think we have to draw a clear distinction between a player having a low usage rate and a player being a bad offensive player. If you give me a choice between a guy that shoots too much and a guy that doesn't shoot enough, I'm taking the latter as I find it far less egregious and far easier to correct.

I've made no secret of my belief that Fournier was what was rotten in our team chemistry. He's a veteran. I think it would be a terrible idea to add him to this roster. People talk about wanting an alpha to establish a hierarchy, but isn't that simply exacerbating the problem that we are discussing here? I think what you really hope for is that your best player is focused on team goals. If he is motivated by personal goals, then you have a problem.

That's probably a more accurate depiction of a core of young players to build with in a healthy environment.

[VFX]

I think we need two veterans in starting lineup and at least one from the bench. We have Harris as ideal veteran. Second one is a little tricky. On one hand we want Okeke and Isaac to play together, on the other hand they are both propably better playing pf and they are both inexperienced. Bringing back Porter or Ennis is propably our best choice but do we really want to get better ?
On the bench we have Ross who i expect to get traded, MCW who could play but is he really best used as 3 ?

I just don't believe that the cure for this potential problem is more veterans. I believe you want high-character individuals that understand that the best way for them to accomplish personal goals is by playing for the benefit of the team and not their own stat lines. Mikal Bridges is an example of this. He is going to get paid because Phoenix is good when he is on the floor.

I think we have to draw a clear distinction between a player having a low usage rate and a player being a bad offensive player. If you give me a choice between a guy that shoots too much and a guy that doesn't shoot enough, I'm taking the latter as I find it far less egregious and far easier to correct.

I've made no secret of my belief that Fournier was what was rotten in our team chemistry. He's a veteran. I think it would be a terrible idea to add him to this roster. People talk about wanting an alpha to establish a hierarchy, but isn't that simply exacerbating the problem that we are discussing here? I think what you really hope for is that your best player is focused on team goals. If he is motivated by personal goals, then you have a problem.

That's probably a more accurate depiction of a core of young players to build with in a healthy environment.

I agree with this.

However, it’s more about the player in question actually having the ability to do so. Not so much them believing they are an alpha without the skill to back it up. This is where coaching comes in.

Let’s actually get the talent first and worry about it being a problem later. People are the ones that put these labels on players being an “alpha” or not. They only become that if they can prove it.

[orthoman]

Why not sign Tim Tebow as a locker room coach and veteran presence, if he's cut by the Jags
Heck, he can try basketball.

[[whistler]]

I think there is more than one way to build a team. You can have a bunch of unselfish team-first guys and then create a system that works with those players or you can have a team with an "alpha" player that wants to stuff that stat sheet so you put a supporting cast around him and you create a system that works with that.

The point should be to have some sort of plan or system and then you go out and get the players that will work within that system.

[zaymon]

You can have alpha who is pass first and likes to involve others. Thats why i want Giddey or Cooper.

[Catledge]

People are making a lot of good points about personalities, but my primary concern is about players who can actually execute a game plan. So I guess I'm looking for two things:

1) Does the player have the skillset to execute a traditional role (3nD, creator, rim protector + rim roller) in a traditional NBA game plan?

2) Does the player have the professional discipline (bring mental focus, eat reasonably healthy, don't drink the night before games or practice, be on time to everything) to play an assigned role to the best of his ability?

Typically, people under 24ish can very rarely do both 1 and 2 above. If you want to teach a young guy to do these things, then it's a good idea to surround him with lots of other people who can. If you hand a basketball to five guys who can't do either of these things, then you will have a good tank team, but you also won't know what you have in those five guys.

If you pick the wrong three guys to build around and turn out to be a treadmill team in five years, then that's a bit of a bummer, but you rebuild and try again the same as we are doing after our all-young-guys rebuild failed.

[EasternMagic]

You can have alpha who is pass first and likes to involve others. Thats why i want Giddey or Cooper.

Do we think Giddey's an alpha? I watched his video with Mike Schmitz, and when asked if he needed the ball in his hands (if he should be the point guard) Giddey said he'll do whatever the coach asks him to do. Which, I love that answer, but doesn't scream alpha to me.

[fendilim]

You can have alpha who is pass first and likes to involve others. Thats why i want Giddey or Cooper.

Do we think Giddey's an alpha? I watched his video with Mike Schmitz, and when asked if he needed the ball in his hands (if he should be the point guard) Giddey said he'll do whatever the coach asks him to do. Which, I love that answer, but doesn't scream alpha to me.

Kuminga does

Given his shot selection, that’s confidence right there. Haha

[rcklsscognition]

While it's not a be all end all I would like a guy who has a history of a large number of shot attempts. It shows they have the desire to step into that role. You don't want a chucker but someone who does have something inside them telling them to get the ball and try to score.

[zaymon]

You can have alpha who is pass first and likes to involve others. Thats why i want Giddey or Cooper.

Do we think Giddey's an alpha? I watched his video with Mike Schmitz, and when asked if he needed the ball in his hands (if he should be the point guard) Giddey said he'll do whatever the coach asks him to do. Which, I love that answer, but doesn't scream alpha to me.

There was a time when Harden wanted to play selfless. If Giddey ends up better with the ball than the rest it can happen naturaly. I agree he doesnt seem like a leader but you dont have to be a leader to be a lead ball handler.

[drsd]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment.

Harris, Ross and Carter-Williams will be critical players next year.

Based on your statement, this is a reason not to get a 3rd stringer C in the 3rd round and instead get a journeyman vet (to teach Carter and Bamba).


..

[RookieStar]

I don't disagree that this team needs good vets to help create the right team environment.

Harris, Ross and Carter-Williams will be critical players next year.

Based on your statement, this is a reason not to get a 3rd stringer C in the 3rd round and instead get a journeyman vet (to teach Carter and Bamba).


..

Agree... are our vets those who stays in the gym longer than everyone else? Are they blowing their $$$ in strip joints and hookers? We need our young guys to see the vets do all the right things and none of the wrong stuff. Hopefully based on history, Harris Ross and MCW aren't known for their Harden-like strip club addiction or super-cool Beasley's high times right?

[Skybox]

This is also why trading for a 2 or 3 year vet who has actually shown some NBA ability (NAW...) makes sense to me. Giving a guy a 4 year deal and conceding that he won't have value for 3 is the sad state we're facing with a pure youth movement. Personally, I don't care to watch us fight for the top pick for the next 3 years.

naw is a vet ? what has he shown? that his cousin is good?..cole and hampton and okeke have shown as much as naw
i guess a vet to me guy has to at least be in his second contract

I said a "2 or 3 year vet", is that really that hard to reconcile?

NAW has shown that he can have big games in the actual NBA. He's gotten relatively limited minutes and his production has increased with his opportunities. He's got the same size and toolbox as the cousin you're talking about (I didn't say same level). He's a ball handler, shooter, offensive initiator...I like his upside more than what I'm able to gamble on in the second half of the lottery. If he was in the draft at 8, knowing what I know of him (which is a heck of a lot more than I KNOW of any of the children in the draft, who have been shooting 18' 3pt shots, against other children), I would choose him...there are certainly better players in the draft, but with a young vet you would just have a little more basis for your choice. There's also a very good chance that half of the top 10 will not be as good as NAW ultimately becomes...we just don't know who yet.

[tiderulz]

This is also why trading for a 2 or 3 year vet who has actually shown some NBA ability (NAW...) makes sense to me. Giving a guy a 4 year deal and conceding that he won't have value for 3 is the sad state we're facing with a pure youth movement. Personally, I don't care to watch us fight for the top pick for the next 3 years.

naw is a vet ? what has he shown? that his cousin is good?..cole and hampton and okeke have shown as much as naw
i guess a vet to me guy has to at least be in his second contract

I said a "2 or 3 year vet", is that really that hard to reconcile?

NAW has shown that he can have big games in the actual NBA. He's gotten relatively limited minutes and his production has increased with his opportunities. He's got the same size and toolbox as the cousin you're talking about (I didn't say same level). He's a ball handler, shooter, offensive initiator...I like his upside more than what I'm able to gamble on in the second half of the lottery. If he was in the draft at 8, knowing what I know of him (which is a heck of a lot more than I KNOW of any of the children in the draft, who have been shooting 18' 3pt shots, against other children), I would choose him...there are certainly better players in the draft, but with a young vet you would just have a little more basis for your choice. There's also a very good chance that half of the top 10 will not be as good as NAW ultimately becomes...we just don't know who yet.

i dont know. I was all for rescuing NAW off the Pelicans bench, but im still not sold he is a completely solid player. very jeckyl and hyde with his play and disappears a lot. that could possibly be shaken off by more playing time or it could continue.