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Audi wrote:SOUL wrote:We can't be calling him WCJ if he is on our team while WCJ is on the team.
This. I have to remind myself what thread I’m in seeing things like “is WCJ really a PG?” and my brain hurts.
tiderulz wrote:fendilim wrote:Have my doubts on clayton.
He has steph size, sure
But not as fast as steph. Neither does he have a quick release that makes steph lethal.not as crafty too.
OK, so may Steph lite? I mean, Steph is a HOF. if we could get a lesser version for a non-lottery pick that had a floor as a solid backup PG, nothing wrong with that.
basketballRob wrote:Jase shot a good percentage at super low volume. He's like the Gary Harris of the NCAA. Jase shot 7.3 3s per 100 possessions. Clayton shot 13.5 per 100.
Gary Harris shot 7.1 3s per 100 possessions last season.
Sexton shot 7.6 3s per 100 in his one college season. Sexton also averaged 25.6 ppg per 40 mpg. Jase averaged 19.2 ppg per 40 mpg.
Jared McCain shot 11 3s per 100 in his one college season. My guess is that Clayton is more of a McCain type of player, and Jase will struggle to score in the NBA.
If we're looking for a player who'll draw a lot of gravity on the perimeter, I think it would be Clayton. Clayton will be looking to get up a lot of 3s. Jase will be looking for wide open shots that he won't get.
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basketballRob wrote:Jase shot a good percentage at super low volume. He's like the Gary Harris of the NCAA. Jase shot 7.3 3s per 100 possessions. Clayton shot 13.5 per 100.
Gary Harris shot 7.1 3s per 100 possessions last season.
Sexton shot 7.6 3s per 100 in his one college season. Sexton also averaged 25.6 ppg per 40 mpg. Jase averaged 19.2 ppg per 40 mpg.
Jared McCain shot 11 3s per 100 in his one college season. My guess is that Clayton is more of a McCain type of player, and Jase will struggle to score in the NBA.
If we're looking for a player who'll draw a lot of gravity on the perimeter, I think it would be Clayton. Clayton will be looking to get up a lot of 3s. Jase will be looking for wide open shots that he won't get.
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yoyojw17 wrote:basketballRob wrote:Jase shot a good percentage at super low volume. He's like the Gary Harris of the NCAA. Jase shot 7.3 3s per 100 possessions. Clayton shot 13.5 per 100.
Gary Harris shot 7.1 3s per 100 possessions last season.
Sexton shot 7.6 3s per 100 in his one college season. Sexton also averaged 25.6 ppg per 40 mpg. Jase averaged 19.2 ppg per 40 mpg.
Jared McCain shot 11 3s per 100 in his one college season. My guess is that Clayton is more of a McCain type of player, and Jase will struggle to score in the NBA.
If we're looking for a player who'll draw a lot of gravity on the perimeter, I think it would be Clayton. Clayton will be looking to get up a lot of 3s. Jase will be looking for wide open shots that he won't get.
Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app
Don't forget.... Jase started as a bench player. And moved into the starting lineup for the last 15 games... Averaged over 16 point on still amazing efficiency for a guard.... Let alone a freshman guard that was plugged in midseason .
If he's our choice .. I can see the vision.
https://youtu.be/dxDAZH48piY?si=tuPtUmd2jnmedm-W
basketballRob wrote:Jase shot a good percentage at super low volume. He's like the Gary Harris of the NCAA. Jase shot 7.3 3s per 100 possessions. Clayton shot 13.5 per 100.
Gary Harris shot 7.1 3s per 100 possessions last season.
Sexton shot 7.6 3s per 100 in his one college season. Sexton also averaged 25.6 ppg per 40 mpg. Jase averaged 19.2 ppg per 40 mpg.
Jared McCain shot 11 3s per 100 in his one college season. My guess is that Clayton is more of a McCain type of player, and Jase will struggle to score in the NBA.
If we're looking for a player who'll draw a lot of gravity on the perimeter, I think it would be Clayton. Clayton will be looking to get up a lot of 3s. Jase will be looking for wide open shots that he won't get.
eyriq wrote:We don't need Clayton to be a starting level guard. We need him to be a 6th man. I think he has an extremely high floor relative to other prospects (older, more evidence that he's a shooter). He should be top ten on our draft board.
Also, because this doesn't get enough pushback, we don't need a floor general. We have and will continue with a wing-hub offense. We need multiple scoring guards — a KCP replacement and a Cole/Jett replacement.
eyriq wrote:We don't need Clayton to be a starting level guard. We need him to be a 6th man. I think he has an extremely high floor relative to other prospects (older, more evidence that he's a shooter). He should be top ten on our draft board.
Also, because this doesn't get enough pushback, we don't need a floor general. We have and will continue with a wing-hub offense. We need multiple scoring guards — a KCP replacement and a Cole/Jett replacement.
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:eyriq wrote:We don't need Clayton to be a starting level guard. We need him to be a 6th man. I think he has an extremely high floor relative to other prospects (older, more evidence that he's a shooter). He should be top ten on our draft board.
Also, because this doesn't get enough pushback, we don't need a floor general. We have and will continue with a wing-hub offense. We need multiple scoring guards — a KCP replacement and a Cole/Jett replacement.
this couldn't be further from the truth.. Paolo our star player asked for a table setting guard last year so in his eyes he absolutely wants another floor general so he doesn't have the be the offense all the time. We need a guard who can bring the ball up the floor and then run an offensive set vs our guards getting the ball past 1/2 court and passing it to Paolo/Franz and then standing in the corner.
How I see it we need a dude who can be that 3rd playmaker who can find Paolo down low in the post, run PnR with Franz/Paolo screens and hit the open man. A Jameer Nelson type PG would absolutely open our offense up but then be able to play off ball when we run Paolo/Franz sets.
eyriq wrote:MartinsIzAfraud wrote:eyriq wrote:We don't need Clayton to be a starting level guard. We need him to be a 6th man. I think he has an extremely high floor relative to other prospects (older, more evidence that he's a shooter). He should be top ten on our draft board.
Also, because this doesn't get enough pushback, we don't need a floor general. We have and will continue with a wing-hub offense. We need multiple scoring guards — a KCP replacement and a Cole/Jett replacement.
this couldn't be further from the truth.. Paolo our star player asked for a table setting guard last year so in his eyes he absolutely wants another floor general so he doesn't have the be the offense all the time. We need a guard who can bring the ball up the floor and then run an offensive set vs our guards getting the ball past 1/2 court and passing it to Paolo/Franz and then standing in the corner.
How I see it we need a dude who can be that 3rd playmaker who can find Paolo down low in the post, run PnR with Franz/Paolo screens and hit the open man. A Jameer Nelson type PG would absolutely open our offense up but then be able to play off ball when we run Paolo/Franz sets.
You’re describing a skillset, not a role. We absolutely need guards who can run offense in pockets — hit reads, make plays out of PnR, and shoot — but that’s not the same thing as building around a floor general. This team is structured around wing initiators. The guard’s job is to complement that, not override it.
eyriq wrote:MartinsIzAfraud wrote:eyriq wrote:We don't need Clayton to be a starting level guard. We need him to be a 6th man. I think he has an extremely high floor relative to other prospects (older, more evidence that he's a shooter). He should be top ten on our draft board.
Also, because this doesn't get enough pushback, we don't need a floor general. We have and will continue with a wing-hub offense. We need multiple scoring guards — a KCP replacement and a Cole/Jett replacement.
this couldn't be further from the truth.. Paolo our star player asked for a table setting guard last year so in his eyes he absolutely wants another floor general so he doesn't have the be the offense all the time. We need a guard who can bring the ball up the floor and then run an offensive set vs our guards getting the ball past 1/2 court and passing it to Paolo/Franz and then standing in the corner.
How I see it we need a dude who can be that 3rd playmaker who can find Paolo down low in the post, run PnR with Franz/Paolo screens and hit the open man. A Jameer Nelson type PG would absolutely open our offense up but then be able to play off ball when we run Paolo/Franz sets.
You’re describing a skillset, not a role. We absolutely need guards who can run offense in pockets — hit reads, make plays out of PnR, and shoot — but that’s not the same thing as building around a floor general. This team is structured around wing initiators. The guard’s job is to complement that, not override it.
VFX wrote:eyriq wrote:MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
this couldn't be further from the truth.. Paolo our star player asked for a table setting guard last year so in his eyes he absolutely wants another floor general so he doesn't have the be the offense all the time. We need a guard who can bring the ball up the floor and then run an offensive set vs our guards getting the ball past 1/2 court and passing it to Paolo/Franz and then standing in the corner.
How I see it we need a dude who can be that 3rd playmaker who can find Paolo down low in the post, run PnR with Franz/Paolo screens and hit the open man. A Jameer Nelson type PG would absolutely open our offense up but then be able to play off ball when we run Paolo/Franz sets.
You’re describing a skillset, not a role. We absolutely need guards who can run offense in pockets — hit reads, make plays out of PnR, and shoot — but that’s not the same thing as building around a floor general. This team is structured around wing initiators. The guard’s job is to complement that, not override it.
Are you watching the finals?
Pascal Siakam is basically the mid-long range version of Paolo if you squint your eyes hard enough. He can win conference finals mvp without being Haliburton or Nembhard.
Role are based off of skillsets. Skillsets define what your offense is capable of doing. This is why Anthony Black isn’t a point guard despite everyone’s best effort to categorize him as one.
If Orlando drafted, or traded for, a “floor general” that would mean that the player in question is able to set the table for the wings.
That doesn’t mean they are tasked entirely with everything or asked to be a third scorer or whatever. It means they are significantly better than Franz or Paolo at running an offense either in transition or in a half court.
That’s a good thing. Not a bad thing.
You have this weird aversion to accepting how this team is structured. You say it’s within Weltmans purview to start building now,this season, by acquiring necessary talent. Then, in another post you are adhering to some strange transfixed belief that the team is what it is already. That Paolo and Franz are these “wing initiators” and Orlando doesn’t need more playmaking everywhere else on the floor.
No, Franz and Paolo are scorers. They are at the top of the box score in ppg, fts, mpg. They are not proven to have exceedingly high consistent assist totals or amazing a/to ratios. Why are we pretending like they are? If they were those guys the shooting numbers and offense wouldn’t look like garbage the last 3-4 seasons.
eyriq wrote:VFX wrote:eyriq wrote:
You’re describing a skillset, not a role. We absolutely need guards who can run offense in pockets — hit reads, make plays out of PnR, and shoot — but that’s not the same thing as building around a floor general. This team is structured around wing initiators. The guard’s job is to complement that, not override it.
Are you watching the finals?
Pascal Siakam is basically the mid-long range version of Paolo if you squint your eyes hard enough. He can win conference finals mvp without being Haliburton or Nembhard.
Role are based off of skillsets. Skillsets define what your offense is capable of doing. This is why Anthony Black isn’t a point guard despite everyone’s best effort to categorize him as one.
If Orlando drafted, or traded for, a “floor general” that would mean that the player in question is able to set the table for the wings.
That doesn’t mean they are tasked entirely with everything or asked to be a third scorer or whatever. It means they are significantly better than Franz or Paolo at running an offense either in transition or in a half court.
That’s a good thing. Not a bad thing.
You have this weird aversion to accepting how this team is structured. You say it’s within Weltmans purview to start building now,this season, by acquiring necessary talent. Then, in another post you are adhering to some strange transfixed belief that the team is what it is already. That Paolo and Franz are these “wing initiators” and Orlando doesn’t need more playmaking everywhere else on the floor.
No, Franz and Paolo are scorers. They are at the top of the box score in ppg, fts, mpg. They are not proven to have exceedingly high consistent assist totals or amazing a/to ratios. Why are we pretending like they are? If they were those guys the shooting numbers and offense wouldn’t look like garbage the last 3-4 seasons.
Franz and Paolo each post a 27% assist rate. They’re not just scorers, they are the offense. This team runs a shared creation model built around wing initiators, and the goal isn’t to override that with a floor general. It’s to add guards who can shoot, attack, and connect plays — not rewire the entire system. I emphasize this because it maximizes the value of this build.
It's possible Jase could be good. When I watched one of his games this season, he wasn't very assertive on the offensive end, causing him to have a poor offensive game. When I watched Clayton, it was the exact opposite.Knightro wrote:basketballRob wrote:Jase shot a good percentage at super low volume. He's like the Gary Harris of the NCAA. Jase shot 7.3 3s per 100 possessions. Clayton shot 13.5 per 100.
Gary Harris shot 7.1 3s per 100 possessions last season.
Sexton shot 7.6 3s per 100 in his one college season. Sexton also averaged 25.6 ppg per 40 mpg. Jase averaged 19.2 ppg per 40 mpg.
Jared McCain shot 11 3s per 100 in his one college season. My guess is that Clayton is more of a McCain type of player, and Jase will struggle to score in the NBA.
If we're looking for a player who'll draw a lot of gravity on the perimeter, I think it would be Clayton. Clayton will be looking to get up a lot of 3s. Jase will be looking for wide open shots that he won't get.
Jase's role changed dramatically as the season went on which is why so many people are high on him.
He opened the season coming off the bench and mostly being used off the basketball. The first 21 games of the season Jase came off the bench for every single one of them. Here were his numbers...
21.7 MPG, 6.1 FGA per game, 2.1 3PTA per game, 2.4 FTA per game, .523 FG%, .400 3PT%, .860 FT%, 9.3 PPG, 2.4 RPG, 2.0 APG, 0.8 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 0.9 TOV.
But he was so good in that limited role, and Michigan State needed him so much, that they moved him into the starting lineup and DRAMATICALLY expanded his role.
From Feb 8 through the end of the season (15 games), he averaged...
30.5 MPG, 10.9 FGA per game, 4.6 3PTA per game, 4.8 FTA per game, .470 FG%, .420 3PT%, .819 FT%, 16.1 PPG, 4.6 RPG, 1.7 APG, 0.9 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 0.7 TOV.
So really when you look at what Jase did once he was moved into more of a on-ball role in the second half of this season - 16.1 PPG on a .618 TS% and how he was able to maintain his efficiency on much higher usage in a tough conference and into the NCAA tournament as a teenager and you can see why the appeal is what it is even though he's short.
