Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[drsd]

Orlando has a favourable schedule the next 10 game: Wed, Dec 5 @Miami; Thu, Dec 6 vs Denver; Sat, Dec 8 vs Indiana; Tue, Dec 11 @Dallas; Fri, Dec 14 vs Chicago; Sat, Dec 15 vs Utah; Thu, Dec 20 vs San Antonio; Sat, Dec 22 @Chicago; Sun, Dec 23 vs Miami; Thu, Dec 27 vs Phoenix

It is fairly easy to image at least 6 winnable attempts. A 6-4 record would be nice.

Closing out the year is then: Sat, Dec 29 vs Toronto; Sun, Dec 30 vs Detroit; Mon, Dec 31 @Charlotte.

If the Magic can manage a 7-5 record to close out the year, this will be a winning franchise going in to the New Year!


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[MagicStarwipe]

Read on Twitter

Article Excerpt:
"The Warriors would rather live with this shot than double the post and open up space for a cutter to zip by—the only center who averages more potential assists (passes that would tally as an assist if the shot went in) is Jokic, who’s already the best passing big man of his generation—but a poison must be picked.

While the blend of three-point shooting and low-post craftsmanship helps make Vucevic a valuable commodity, a significant slice of his value has shockingly materialized on defense. Generally speaking, Magic head coach Steve Clifford wants to funnel ball handlers into the paint, towards dropping bigs who cement themselves near the basket. At the rim, opponents are shooting 56.6 percent when Vucevic is the closest defender to their shot. That number, along with the attempts faced, neighbors respectable shot blockers like Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, and Myles Turner."



Nikola Vucevic is the Nikola Jokic of the East. Or the closest thing you're gonna get to it.

Imagine if Vuc had the shooters and finishers that Denver has.


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I'm all for giving Vuc praise for his season, but let's not compare his passing to Jokic. Vuc is a good passer. Jokic is an out of this world passer.

[pepe1991]

Article Excerpt:
"The Warriors would rather live with this shot than double the post and open up space for a cutter to zip by—the only center who averages more potential assists (passes that would tally as an assist if the shot went in) is Jokic, who’s already the best passing big man of his generation—but a poison must be picked.

While the blend of three-point shooting and low-post craftsmanship helps make Vucevic a valuable commodity, a significant slice of his value has shockingly materialized on defense. Generally speaking, Magic head coach Steve Clifford wants to funnel ball handlers into the paint, towards dropping bigs who cement themselves near the basket. At the rim, opponents are shooting 56.6 percent when Vucevic is the closest defender to their shot. That number, along with the attempts faced, neighbors respectable shot blockers like Rudy Gobert, Jarrett Allen, and Myles Turner."



Nikola Vucevic is the Nikola Jokic of the East. Or the closest thing you're gonna get to it.

Imagine if Vuc had the shooters and finishers that Denver has.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

I'm all for giving Vuc praise for his season, but let's not compare his passing to Jokic. Vuc is a good passer. Jokic is an out of this world passer.

He is, but Vučević is far better defender.
Honestlly if we trade Vučević by ASG it will mean ( probably) that Magic from 2013-2018 had 3 allstar players and non of them played on Magic when they made it.
I think Harris is getting to ASG this year as coaches choice. He gets lot of hype lately and Clippers keep winning. Perfect storm

[Mauro Pedrosa]

Imagine if Vuc had the shooters and finishers that Denver has.


Sent from my iPad using RealGM mobile app

I'm all for giving Vuc praise for his season, but let's not compare his passing to Jokic. Vuc is a good passer. Jokic is an out of this world passer.

He is, but Vučević is far better defender.
Honestlly if we trade Vučević by ASG it will mean ( probably) that Magic from 2013-2018 had 3 allstar players and non of them played on Magic when they made it.
I think Harris is getting to ASG this year as coaches choice. He gets lot of hype lately and Clippers keep winning. Perfect storm

Wonder what would have happened if we kept all 3 and traded Payton

[MagicStarwipe]

I'm all for giving Vuc praise for his season, but let's not compare his passing to Jokic. Vuc is a good passer. Jokic is an out of this world passer.

He is, but Vučević is far better defender.
Honestlly if we trade Vučević by ASG it will mean ( probably) that Magic from 2013-2018 had 3 allstar players and non of them played on Magic when they made it.
I think Harris is getting to ASG this year as coaches choice. He gets lot of hype lately and Clippers keep winning. Perfect storm

Wonder what would have happened if we kept all 3 and traded Payton

Wonder what would have happened if we kept all 4 and had a coach that wasn't incompetent and a president that was willing to wait for them to grow up.

[fendilim]

This is what good coaching gives you.

CLifford masks our players' weakness and let them play to their strength. Strategically planning defense and offensive plays that allows our player to succeed. But more importantly, players are doing what he preach.

[drsd]

Neither. We let Simmons go this summer. Like I said before Frank is a waste of time... he needs more years to develop than we would spend on him.... and the end result is likely an average player or out of the league. We'd be better off taking a look at him in 3 or 4 years after he's bounced around a couple more teams.

Right now Ross must be looking for a multi-year deal averaging more than 10M a year (say 4 for 50M). It is hard to see Vučević at a deal less than a 25M salary next year. If we add that 35M on to next year's payroll, the Magic start the off-season at a touch over 115M.

There is not a lot of room for Orlando to improve next year after keeping those two. But then the roster reverts to what it was always about: the 2019-20 off-season when Mozgov, Augustin, Simmons, and Grant clear up nearly 30M in cap space.

Question: if the Magic make the second-round of the playoffs, "must" Vučević and/or Ross be re-signed? It is a complex question for me.


..

[cedric76]

In a recent interview, a journalist asked Evan why he thought VUC was playing so well this year, the Answer was:

VUC has always been a great player, Coach let him express himself fully, he also said that "maybe" vuc wasnt really in Vogel s plan.

This is to show how important it is to have a coach that believes in you.

As for Evan, he isnt happy with this production, he knows that he sucks this season, however he mentioned that he has improved everywhere else:

Better at passing, rebounding,defence , etc...

so as soon as his shoot is back, WATCH OUT

Playoff baby

Go magic


PS: really hope that Weham manages to get Frank on the cheap

[tiderulz]

PS: really hope that Weham manages to get Frank on the cheap

why? what does he bring?

[The Real Dalic]

PS: really hope that Weham manages to get Frank on the cheap

why? what does he bring?

Wingspan? That's the only thing I can think of.

[cedric76]

PS: really hope that Weham manages to get Frank on the cheap

why? what does he bring?

Wingspan? That's the only thing I can think of.

Do more homework then

Frank will become an elite 3&D PG

[fendilim]

Honestly, I don't mind trading for Frank if we can get him for cheap.

Doesn't hurt to get another young prospect on this team and try our luck. Its not like we're getting high lotto pick anyway.

[pepe1991]

why? what does he bring?

Wingspan? That's the only thing I can think of.

Do more homework then

Frank will become an elite 3&D PG

hmm

maybe, but now his D is slipping, his 3 is nowhere to be found ,and he ain't even PG any more.

[tiderulz]

why? what does he bring?

Wingspan? That's the only thing I can think of.

Do more homework then

Frank will become an elite 3&D PG

maybe we have done our homework and he looks like another in a long line of athletic tall guys that cant shoot.

[basketballRob]

Orlando has a favourable schedule the next 10 game: Wed, Dec 5 @Miami; Thu, Dec 6 vs Denver; Sat, Dec 8 vs Indiana; Tue, Dec 11 @Dallas; Fri, Dec 14 vs Chicago; Sat, Dec 15 vs Utah; Thu, Dec 20 vs San Antonio; Sat, Dec 22 @Chicago; Sun, Dec 23 vs Miami; Thu, Dec 27 vs Phoenix

It is fairly easy to image at least 6 winnable attempts. A 6-4 record would be nice.

Closing out the year is then: Sat, Dec 29 vs Toronto; Sun, Dec 30 vs Detroit; Mon, Dec 31 @Charlotte.

If the Magic can manage a 7-5 record to close out the year, this will be a winning franchise going in to the New Year!


..

Washington's schedule looks even more favorable than ours. I could see them catching us in the standings in the next week or so.

[pepe1991]

are we considering moving pick for actual talent?
I don't think Magic are lottery team this year, and even if they are, that pick won't be as valuable/high.

[OrlandoNed]

However, the real mistake will always be not beating that complete bargain of an offer that Dallas made to Atlanta for the #3 pick for an absolute savant like Doncic. It was a miracle that he even got to 3, and we missed on a golden opportunity to get the cornerstone of the next great era of this franchise. That is the latest failure in a long line that will haunt our franchise for a long time. Instead we settled on mediocrity while Dallas became a perfect example of fortune favoring the bold.

For what it's worth, there was no way to beat Dallas' offer because they were drafting ahead of Orlando.

Even if the Magic were willing to offer more than the Mavericks did, it wasn't going to happen because Atlanta wouldn't have gotten Trae at 6 (Dallas would have taken him at 5 or traded out with someone who wanted Trae at 5) which was the whole crux of the deal in the first place for the Hawks.

Now if you want to make the case that the Magic could have offered so much that it would have made Atlanta willing to accept not getting Young... I could buy that, but what would that have been? Three firsts? Four firsts?

Why on earth would Dallas take Young when they had already taken DSJ, who they were pretty content with, in the previous draft?
Dallas would of simply taken Bamba in that scenario to fill their glaring hole at center.

All Orlando would have to do to beat the Dallas offer of a top 6ish protected 2019 first, is just throw in a dang 2nd round pick so no, we wouldn't have to add in 3 or 4 firsts to do so.
An offer of a less protected 2019 first (which would currently be at 16), the OKC pick, a 2019 2nd and a future 2nd would of blown the Mavs offer out of the water and still would of been more than a fair price to secure Orlando's future for the next decade plus.

Like I said, it's a miracle that a opportunity like that presented itself. How often can you count on 3 franchises (well, really 2. Ayton was also a logical choice for Pheonix) being dumb enough to pass on the best prospect in the draft?

[OrlandoNed]

He is, but Vučević is far better defender.
Honestlly if we trade Vučević by ASG it will mean ( probably) that Magic from 2013-2018 had 3 allstar players and non of them played on Magic when they made it.
I think Harris is getting to ASG this year as coaches choice. He gets lot of hype lately and Clippers keep winning. Perfect storm

Wonder what would have happened if we kept all 3 and traded Payton

Wonder what would have happened if we kept all 4 and had a coach that wasn't incompetent and a president that was willing to wait for them to grow up.

We could of waited until 3018, Payton would still of been trash.

[Knightro]

Why on earth would Dallas take Young when they had already taken DSJ, who they were pretty content with, in the previous draft?
Dallas would of simply taken Bamba in that scenario to fill their glaring hole at center.

All Orlando would have to do to beat the Dallas offer of a top 6ish protected 2019 first, is just throw in a dang 2nd round pick so no, we wouldn't have to add in 3 or 4 firsts to do so.
An offer of a less protected 2019 first (which would currently be at 16), the OKC pick, a 2019 2nd and a future 2nd would of blown the Mavs offer out of the water and still would of been more than a fair price to secure Orlando's future for the next decade plus.

Like I said, it's a miracle that a opportunity like that presented itself. How often can you count on 3 franchises (well, really 2. Ayton was also a logical choice for Pheonix) being dumb enough to pass on the best prospect in the draft?

They took Luka who is, for all intents and purposes, a point guard as well.

Atlanta wasn't trading out of the 3rd spot without being absolutely sure they were getting Trae, that's my point. If they trade with Orlando (or anyone else who isn't Dallas frankly) they can't assure that.

Plus there's the possibility that Dallas beyond just picking Young themselves decides to trade out of the 5th pick with someone like Bulls or Knicks who wants to jump ahead of the Magic (subsequently the Hawks) for Trae.

Beyond that... if Atlanta takes Luka at 3 with the intent to trade him to Orlando at 6 and then Dallas screws it up by getting Young off the board, the Hawks would just keep Luka.

See what I mean? There's no scenario where anyone behind Dallas could have gotten Luka Doncic.

[rcklsscognition]

are we considering moving pick for actual talent?
I don't think Magic are lottery team this year, and even if they are, that pick won't be as valuable/high.

I'm probably wrong, but I do think I remember Woj mentioning we want playoffs and don't necessarily desire to keep our pick, or something along those lines.