Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 6.0

[Redick07]

Per Stein:

I'm okay with either of them individually but I'm totally against signing both. We need to improve our offense and signing two defensive focused players is not the right path. Yes their is an upgrade on offense going from Gary Harris to KCP but I think most of it would be countered by the offensive downgrade of going from Carter to Hartenstein. I just feel like that would be locking us in to again having a bottom half of the league offense. I like the idea of signing Hartenstein but if we do that we need our guard upgrade to be much more focused on offense even if they are not the best defender.

If we go the KCP/IHart route, fortunately, we still have pieces to make another move and upgrade the backcourt rotation. Imagine then trading for Simons to be our 20pt scorer off the bench (wcj/Cole/pick package?). Or waiting, then trading for Garland in Feb or next summer WITH KCP in the package (ultimate goal, IMO).

I like your idea. But I think if we want to acquire Simons, Jett should be included in the package.
Jett, WCJ, 2 FRPs for Simons.

Suggs/Black/Cole
Simons/KCP/Cole
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/da Silva
IHart/MoW

[basketballRob]

I think we're all getting desperate for a big signing. 2 months ago, this board unanimously didn't want to give PG a 4 year max deal. Now, almost unanimously, everyone does.

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[yoyojw17]

Per Stein:

I'm okay with either of them individually but I'm totally against signing both. We need to improve our offense and signing two defensive focused players is not the right path. Yes their is an upgrade on offense going from Gary Harris to KCP but I think most of it would be countered by the offensive downgrade of going from Carter to Hartenstein. I just feel like that would be locking us in to again having a bottom half of the league offense. I like the idea of signing Hartenstein but if we do that we need our guard upgrade to be much more focused on offense even if they are not the best defender.

If we go the KCP/IHart route, fortunately, we still have pieces to make another move and upgrade the backcourt rotation. Imagine then trading for Simons to be our 20pt scorer off the bench (wcj/Cole/pick package?). Or waiting, then trading for Garland in Feb or next summer WITH KCP in the package (ultimate goal, IMO).

KCP will be a quality stop gaps type player whose contract will eventually become valuable to fit the need in the future deal in the meantime... he will provide us with what we really do need at the moment. ballhandling/defense/perimeter scoring/championship experience. Well... that's how i think of it as a plus.

Now Hartenstein... His offensive rating of 136 and defensive of 108 is what intrigues me the most. we know what he can do on the defensive end. But... his IQ, passing, ball movement, and offensive rebounding rate make a huge difference.

a KCP and Suggs shooting backcourt along with improved shooting of Paolo and Franz (resurrection) would allow us to play Hartenstein in the paint.

And man... our bench will be stronggggg, depending on the growth of Black and Howard, and we'll be German AF (especially if we bring back Mo). lol

KCP/Black/Cole
Suggs/Howard
Franz/ Da Silva/Houstan
Paolo/JI
IHart/Wendell

And if we can get them back at a good price. harris and Fultz would be amazing tertiary players. I fully expect Mo to return.

[OrlandoMagic]

Anyone who is against signing PG whether due to age or injuries is nuts. He instantly and dramatically improves our team period.

[OrlandoMagic]

And with that being said I would look to sign Hartenstein while trading both Carter and Cole

[cedric76]

Hart is a nice player but Wcj fits our team better, Wcj s spacing is needed

[Skybox]

I like your idea. But I think if we want to acquire Simons, Jett should be included in the package.
Jett, WCJ, 2 FRPs for Simons.

Suggs/Black/Cole
Simons/KCP/Cole
Franz/Isaac
Paolo/da Silva
IHart/MoW

I'm practically Simons' agent on these boards but even I think that's a big overpay. POR already has 3 Centers onboard...I think the appeal of WCJ to POR has passed -unless we took Robert Williams back (I would, but it would limit our UFA spending). WCJ COULD, theoretically, play PF next to either Ayton or Clingan, because of his floor-spreading, but Williams, Clingan, and Ayton are all pure Centers with no game outside of the paint.

A good thing, that is a bit problematic for this plan, is that ORL really doesn't have any dead weight salary for matching. Cole is the only one who I'd consider "expendable" and his $13m isn't negative or even a bad deal, imo. Any significant trade we might do probably involves us taking back more than we send out...which makes casually throwing bags at KCP and Hartenstein impossible. The only big play we'd have is renouncing Isaac's non-guaranteed year of $17m - but I don't think that's something we would or should consider. I'd trade him in a package for the right player, but I doubt his trade value is even close to his on-court value to us.

I'd be happier just signing Hartenstein, keeping WCJ in a significant reserve role (or future trade), and sending Cole and a couple of firsts for Simons....just skip the KCP thing - he's not a big enough needle-mover, imo, for the $25m he's going to get...and, while I understand the logic, I'm not a supporter of "overpay him and then we can use him for a trade piece someday...for someone".

[CarraT]

And with that being said I would look to sign Hartenstein while trading both Carter and Cole

Is it possible to do a sign-and-trade for two players, like Hartenstein for Carter and Cole?

[OnlyFranz22]

Hartenstein is not a good fit in the starting lineup with Franz/Paolo who need space to operate in the mid range/paint.

If it was for a big off the bench role who brings energy/second chance opportunities and can get open looks on the perimeter with his passing I’d be 100 percent down……. But that’s not how he is gonna be paid.

[GelbeWand09]

How does his advanced metrics compare to say Andre Drummond who is cheaper and still only 30?

By advanced stats he was the 2nd best regular season defender behind Isaac. Drummond is a one trick rebound pony, with bad to mediocre defense.

Link to stats?

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

[Skybox]

And with that being said I would look to sign Hartenstein while trading both Carter and Cole

Is it possible to do a sign-and-trade for two players, like Hartenstein for Carter and Cole?

Not in Hartenstein's case, because NY can't pay him what he wants...or he'd already be re-upped. So, same as Monk, there's no option for a sign and trade, because his own team can't sign him for what he's now worth. Two options for Hart (same as Monk)...

1) accept NYK's max offer or appx $17m, profess his love for the teammates, the city, etc (because he didn't get outside offers that made it impossible to stay with his preferred location)

2) sign with a team with enough cap space to pay him more (probably over $20m, especially if less than 4yrs). Good news is that we are one of only a handful who have that option. OKC is a real threat. I doubt DET is because they have Duren and, honestly, what kind of difference is non-shooting Hartenstein going to make for them? I don't think SAS would commit big money at this stage, although the fit next to Wemby is kind of interesting (just like Chet in OKC). Not sure who else has significant money and need...CHA-no, IND-no, UTA-no, PHI-no.

[CarraT]

And with that being said I would look to sign Hartenstein while trading both Carter and Cole

Is it possible to do a sign-and-trade for two players, like Hartenstein for Carter and Cole?

Not in Hartenstein's case, because NY can't pay him what he wants...or he'd already be re-upped. So, same as Monk, there's no option for a sign and trade, because his own team can't sign him for what he's now worth. Two options for Hart (same as Monk)...

1) accept NYK's max offer or appx $17m, profess his love for the teammates, the city, etc (because he didn't get outside offers that made it impossible to stay with his preferred location)

2) sign with a team with enough cap space to pay him more (probably over $20m, especially if less than 4yrs). Good news is that we are one of only a handful who have that option. OKC is a real threat. I doubt DET is because they have Duren and, honestly, what kind of difference is non-shooting Hartenstein going to make for them? I don't think SAS would commit big money at this stage, although the fit next to Wemby is kind of interesting (just like Chet in OKC). Not sure who else has significant money and need...CHA-no, IND-no, UTA-no, PHI-no.

Ok. Still prefer PG and Carter, but in case PG decides for another team, im down on Hartenstein and getting a real shooter at guard, like Simons.

[OrlandoMagic]

And with that being said I would look to sign Hartenstein while trading both Carter and Cole

Is it possible to do a sign-and-trade for two players, like Hartenstein for Carter and Cole?

I actually was meaning trading both these players to other teams just to create more cap space.

[Def Swami]

Realistically, I believe Paul George is using us for leverage to get his 4 year max from the Clippers. I could see it as a courtesy meeting as well. I think this ends with both KCP and Hartenstein, which is a pretty good free agency as well.

[cedric76]

Looking at free agents field, I can't see us offering many long term deal, I think we ll be smart and position ourselves for Summer 2025

[Skybox]

Realistically, I believe Paul George is using us for leverage to get his 4 year max from the Clippers. I could see it as a courtesy meeting as well. I think this ends with both KCP and Hartenstein, which is a pretty good free agency as well.

If Suggs can play PG...that's a heck of a summer...I have doubts but watching occasional highlights of Suggs playing QB make it (maybe) what the team envisions. He's certainly got the demeanor and intensity for the role. If he AND AB take a leap forward, we could go from worst PG rotation (or basically none) in the league to a really good one - without changing bodies.

Not how I see it but, would certainly solve a lot of problems is Suggs is QB1

[VFX]

I would agree with this statement but 40 is crazy, lol. You know how many people even play until they are 40 much less productive at that age. Most guys are shell of themselves by 38. There is no chance PG will be better at that age. Not everyone is Lebron.

Yeah, lebron is an outlier it's hard to still be at a high level at that age....I mean look at what's happened to chris paul.....look at what's happening to klay thompson now....at some point father time is going to get you and i'm looking at PG now at 34 i mean he's already lost a step....for the kind of money he wants, you better make sure you feel he's going to be worth it....Looking back when we got shard it was like the perfect time, Dwight was ready to compete for titles.....we got hedo playing at a high level....Jameer and the rest of the guys knew their roles and was ready to go....For me getting PG now, the timeline is a bit off as i feel paolo and franz aren't ready just yet...by the time they are will PG still be playing at a high level? I'm torn, on one hand i'm happy Orlando is finally on a big name's short list as a destination.....on the other hand i just wish it was PG about 5 or so years ago

Who cares about some theoretical timeline when this is the last chance we will have to add a max player just in FA? After paying Suggs, Franz, Paolo we just won’t be able to do that anymore. I don’t get this, really? We should wait for a better time, when in reality this is the last time we have to sign someone that big? It’s either now or never. Let’s get relevant again, now!

Contracts care. Timeframes care.

You get PG this offseason, spend the cap and resign Suggs/Franz, that’s your team. That’s cool. We aren’t winning a championship and like Knightro said we are bridging the years with Franz/Paolo/Suggs until they are in their prime. I can buy that idea. The issue is the theoretical possibility of landing someone in the timeframe that stays with the team longer than 3 seasons to actually win a championship is still in the air. Do you trust this FO to replace Paul George’s production when he retires?

Don’t get me wrong. Like I said I buy into “bridging the gap because we have to spend money” I just don’t think 1 season of a first round exit is the time to push all our chips in for the next 3-4 seasons. Paul George is also fickle. I don’t see him retiring here when he gets complacent without a championship.

[Knightro]

Hartenstein is not a good fit in the starting lineup with Franz/Paolo who need space to operate in the mid range/paint.

If it was for a big off the bench role who brings energy/second chance opportunities and can get open looks on the perimeter with his passing I’d be 100 percent down……. But that’s not how he is gonna be paid.

The offense sucked with Carter “spacing” the floor for those guys though.

[Knightro]

Contracts care. Timeframes care.

You get PG this offseason, spend the cap and resign Suggs/Franz, that’s your team. That’s cool. We aren’t winning a championship and like Knightro said we are bridging the years with Franz/Paolo/Suggs until they are in their prime. I can buy that idea. The issue is the theoretical possibility of landing someone in the timeframe that stays with the team longer than 3 seasons to actually win a championship is still in the air. Do you trust this FO to replace Paul George’s production when he retires?

Don’t get me wrong. Like I said I buy into “bridging the gap because we have to spend money” I just don’t think 1 season of a first round exit is the time to push all our chips in for the next 3-4 seasons. Paul George is also fickle. I don’t see him retiring here when he gets complacent without a championship.

I get what you’re saying entirely, I just don’t think there’s a better alternative in the moment.

Especially when George won’t cost any trade assets to acquire.

If a big star hits the trade market in 12 months, the Magic still have every single trade bullet they have right now, ya know?

[Bergmaniac]

Hartenstein is not a good fit in the starting lineup with Franz/Paolo who need space to operate in the mid range/paint.

If it was for a big off the bench role who brings energy/second chance opportunities and can get open looks on the perimeter with his passing I’d be 100 percent down……. But that’s not how he is gonna be paid.

The offense sucked with Carter “spacing” the floor for those guys though.

Carter's spacing has always been overrated, teams leave him wide open to shoot 3s quite often yet he only averaged 1.3 makes per game last season on a pretty average percentage for the quality of looks he was getting. The offense has never been good with him on the court. A more traditional rim running centre can easily be better for the offense with his vertical spacing and offensive rebounding. And Hartenstein's passing would be huge on a team as lacking at this element as ours.