Payton - ROY?

JF5 · Post #21 » by **JF5** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 11:31 pm

tiderulz wrote:Wiggins will win it, and he should. But Elf is definitely a keeper. If he can develop any reliable jump shot, especially a 3, then he will become someone a team has to game plan against

This... I just want him to be Jason Kidd reliable from the Arc...

MagicFan101 · Post #22 » by **MagicFan101** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:39 am

drsd wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Wiggins will win it, and he should. But Elf is definitely a keeper. If he can develop any reliable jump shot, especially a 3, then he will become someone a team has to game plan against

FUlly agree.

And in the end, this is a bit like Carter-Williams over Oladipo. Yes he had a better season, but which player would you rather have? Last season to this season, Orlando drafted the second best rookie with a huge upside beyond the freshman hype.

..

I'm as high on Elf as anyone but this is crazy.

Wiggins is everything he was hyped to be (a ridiculous athlete, a strong defender with elite defensive potential and a capable scorer).

But he has also (almost) silenced quite a few of the knocks on him. His shooting is streaky but his stroke is nice and he has far more hot games than expected. His passion and fire were also in question. I have watched almost every T-Wolves game this season that didn't overlap with an Orlando game. He will never be KG but this isn't an issue.

I love Elf and we have struck pure gold here but Wiggins is very special.

MCW is fools gold. I think of him the way I think of Tobias Harris. These are nice players who will make you pay if you let them but these aren't the anchors of a good team.

Comparing Wiggins to MCW in any way (even indirectly) is nuts.

CraZyPraiZ · Post #23 » by **CraZyPraiZ** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:30 am

I could care less who wins it. Elf at 10 is a steal and will become a franchise player. Elf did tonight what no other Magic player has ever done. Not even Penny who is by far my favorite Magician ever recorded back to back triple doubles. This kid is special and no one but Henny saw it. Elf is a beast who will not back down. I love this kid. Oh and btw Hinkie got schooled by Henny.

iTs JusT zo · Post #24 » by **iTs JusT zo** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:36 am

If he can get to 4 triple doubles in a row he has a chance

Hogified05 · Post #25 » by **Hogified05** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:15 am

Wiggins has been far and away the best rookie. Most consistent. Payton has been really really good since the All-Star break but he was sporadic before that. I love his fire and demeanor on the court. Definitely a keeper, just hope he improves that stroke.

Wiggins is going win an MVP one day IMO. Specially if Minny lands Okafor or Towns. They are going be really good in the near future with a tandem like that and Wiggins will be averaging like 20 something on a great team. He will be in contention believer me. I do like me some Wiggins.

fendilim · Post #26 » by **fendilim** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:17 am

JF5 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Wiggins will win it, and he should. But Elf is definitely a keeper. If he can develop any reliable jump shot, especially a 3, then he will become someone a team has to game plan against

This... I just want him to be Jason Kidd reliable from the Arc...

Jason Kidd is actually 5th in NBA history for 3pointers made.

ivDT · Post #27 » by **ivDT** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:40 am

CraZyPraiZ wrote:I could care less who wins it. Elf at 10 is a steal and will become a franchise player. Elf did tonight what no other Magic player has ever done. Not even Penny who is by far my favorite Magician ever recorded back to back triple doubles. This kid is special and no one but Henny saw it. Elf is a beast who will not back down. I love this kid. Oh and btw Hinkie got schooled by Henny.

i dunno. dario saric could be really good 3 years from now...

shadrock · Post #28 » by **shadrock** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:52 am

So is Payton worth more to this team now than Vic?

Post #29 » by **eyriq** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 3:56 am

shadrock wrote:So is Payton worth more to this team now than Vic?

More sweater vests!

NickAnderson · Post #30 » by **NickAnderson** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:04 am

shadrock wrote:So is Payton worth more to this team now than Vic?

I like Payton but no way.

woosah · Post #31 » by **woosah** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:08 am

Must we have a hierarchy? Winning teams have a big 2 or 3 and they are equally important so why do we have to have this definitive "the guy" on our team. Both Elf and Vic are vital to this team's success.

JF5 · Post #32 » by **JF5** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:10 am

fendilim wrote:Jason Kidd is actually 5th in NBA history for 3pointers made.

Though this is true... Jason was never a really good shooter from the 3 point line. Just average at best for most of it. At the end with Dallas, that's when the shot got more reliable...

shadrock · Post #33 » by **shadrock** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:12 am

NickAnderson wrote:
shadrock wrote:So is Payton worth more to this team now than Vic?

I like Payton but no way.

Hmmm interesting. I see Payton as being a PG on the level of JKidd/Rondo. I dont mnow Vic will ever quite reach that level. Either way, our backcourt is so solid

Just need to draft WCS now and were going to be damn good next year.

Post #34 » by **Devin 1L** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:14 am

fendilim wrote:
JF5 wrote:
tiderulz wrote:Wiggins will win it, and he should. But Elf is definitely a keeper. If he can develop any reliable jump shot, especially a 3, then he will become someone a team has to game plan against

This... I just want him to be Jason Kidd reliable from the Arc...

Jason Kidd is actually 5th in NBA history for 3pointers made.

While factually correct, I think it can be a bit misleading in the context of his statement (I felt like I knew exactly what he meant as I've thought the same thing, so I'm taking the liberty.)

-Since the three point line wasn't introduced until 1980, anyone before then, or during the change, is either ineligible or shortchanged by however many years they didn't have the opportunity. This basically leads to an advantage to anyone whose career began and ended between 1980 and now. (Note: 13 of the all-time Top 20 are still active players.)
-Bonus for those playing when the NBA shortened the line in 94-97.

Basically, Kidd started his career in the three-point era, in the shortened-three pointer no less, and had an ridiculously long career where he played until he was old enough to coach. In his latter years, his offense was essentially pass or stand at the three point line for a spot-up three. He literally took and made more three pointers than two pointers in the last five or so years of his career. This is what I took the OP to reference. He's never going to be a Steph Curry/Jamal Crawford/Steven Nash pull-up three point bomber --and he doesn't need to be-- but if he can do the things he's already doing and be able to space the floor as a (a) reliable (b) spot-up (c) three point shooter, then he's good -- that's sufficient given the all the other things he brings to the table.

Saying something like Kidd is 5th all time 3 point shooter is about as relevant, without the proper context, as pointing out that Steve Nash is 15th.

Post #35 » by **Bensational** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:29 am

We got one of the currently best 3 players in this draft with the #10 pick, so that's ROY enough for me.

I think Wiggins gets it because he is having a great season and looking every bit worthy of that #1 pick.

But if Elf can wrangle another triple double or two in these closing games (lofty aspirations, I know, but he's 1 rebound shy of 3 triple doubles in a row) then he might make enough of a case to draw some media attention and slight star status.

In the end, it's just a popularity contest. And I'd take Elf over Wiggins any day, rational or not, because I love to watch him play. He is, without question, my favorite player in the league.

And best of all, he went and got a triple double on my birthday!

woosah · Post #36 » by **woosah** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:35 am

Bensational wrote:We got one of the currently best 3 players in this draft with the #10 pick, so that's ROY enough for me.

I think Wiggins gets it because he is having a great season and looking every bit worthy of that #1 pick.

But if Elf can wrangle another triple double or two in these closing games (lofty aspirations, I know, but he's 1 rebound shy of 3 triple doubles in a row) then he might make enough of a case to draw some media attention and slight star status.

In the end, it's just a popularity contest. And I'd take Elf over Wiggins any day, rational or not, because I love to watch him play. He is, without question, my favorite player in the league.

And best of all, he went and got a triple double on my birthday!

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!

Post #37 » by **Bensational** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:37 am

woosah wrote:
Bensational wrote:We got one of the currently best 3 players in this draft with the #10 pick, so that's ROY enough for me.

I think Wiggins gets it because he is having a great season and looking every bit worthy of that #1 pick.

But if Elf can wrangle another triple double or two in these closing games (lofty aspirations, I know, but he's 1 rebound shy of 3 triple doubles in a row) then he might make enough of a case to draw some media attention and slight star status.

In the end, it's just a popularity contest. And I'd take Elf over Wiggins any day, rational or not, because I love to watch him play. He is, without question, my favorite player in the league.

And best of all, he went and got a triple double on my birthday!

Happy Birthday!!!!!!!!!!

Cheers mate!

Payton has given me the best gift of the day - glowing pride in my team.

InFlames · Post #38 » by **InFlames** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:57 am

One thing that stands out about Payton to me is his ridiculous motor. He never even looks winded which is nuts considering how active he is on both ends of the floor.

Post #39 » by **SOUL** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:01 am

games like the one''s hes had is the reason i defend him (and oladipo last year) and even AG from people making absurd comments throughout the season when you can obviously see the skill in the players we draft. a lot of our problems are opportunity and coaching based.

ivDT · Post #40 » by **ivDT** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:07 am

Bensational wrote:We got one of the currently best 3 players in this draft with the #10 pick, so that's ROY enough for me.

I think Wiggins gets it because he is having a great season and looking every bit worthy of that #1 pick.

But if Elf can wrangle another triple double or two in these closing games (lofty aspirations, I know, but he's 1 rebound shy of 3 triple doubles in a row) then he might make enough of a case to draw some media attention and slight star status.

In the end, it's just a popularity contest. And I'd take Elf over Wiggins any day, rational or not, because I love to watch him play. He is, without question, my favorite player in the league.

And best of all, he went and got a triple double on my birthday!

crazy. i was actually out celebrating my birthday and was going to watch the game on my dvr when i got home. unfortunately, the heat fans that took me out to dinner had to listen to the heat-nuggets game on the way home and ended up ruining the score for me. had i not come here first, i probably would've deleted a crisp 1080i recording of elf getting his second triple double in a row.