Is Skiles going to ruin any chance of FA signing

[The_Watcher]

I have no choice but to believe yes -

Put yourself in a player's shoes in this situation. Most likely the week they start getting woo'd at midnight, they really start considering who they want to go to (with who is interested anyway). Let's say you're Mike Conley - if Orlando calls at midnight, the next morning, or even immediately after the call - your agent calls and says something like "Hey, Orlando is interested. What do you think?". First thing you think about is money (let's be honest), then who is on the team, right? "Oh, at least I'll be in the east", "I'll probably start"..

"..but Skiles is their coach, f**k. Gotta pass".


That's how I would see it. Chances are, they also ask the agent and friends in the NBA what they think of Skiles. They have to, in my opinion.

[paperboymafia]

I'll wait till summer before passing judgement/opinion but the omens aren't great...it's a shame because even though we are improved over last season...this feels like a big missed opportunity with how tight the east is above us.

If Skiles doesn't work out (assuming he'll get a good shot at next season to 'prove' something) and the next Coach isn't a tried and tested Coach *star* that can guarantee immediate improvement and free agent attraction (ie Thibs lvl at a minimum) we've basically lost any momentum and set the clock back a couple of years and boom, another rebuild. It kind of really sucks because the realist in me is having a hard time imagining this working out how most of us wish (improvement, playoffs, consistency) and I consider myself one of the more level headed non-reactionary Magic fans.

We'll see what happens. Maybe there's a rabbit in the hat somewhere still.

[purpleswordfish]

No way. Vaugh was on his way out. Henny was going after Thibs and when he decided to step out, thats when Alex Martin stepped in.

Maybe Thibs didn't want the job and Henny panicked then settled on Skiles.

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

Do you have any sources to back up that statement?

[OrlandoDream]

I have no choice but to believe yes -

Put yourself in a player's shoes in this situation. Most likely the week they start getting wood at midnight, they really start considering who they want to go to (with who is interested anyway). Let's say you're Mike Conley - if Orlando calls at midnight, the next morning, or even immediately after the call - your agent calls and says something like "Hey, Orlando is interested. What do you think?". The first thing you think about is money (let's be honest), then who is on the team, right? "Oh, at least, I'll be in the east", "I'll probably start".

"..but Skiles is their coach, f**k. Gotta pass".


That's how I would see it. Chances are, they also ask the agent and friends in the NBA what they think of Skiles. They have to, in my opinion.

I don't know about that. Like you said, the first thing FAs think about is gonna be the money. If we throw Conley a max, that alone will bring a smile to his face. Players think about coaches when they are choosing between teams. Like you said, I would figure the first thing an FA contemplates(besides $$$) is the quality of players, the conference that will give them the best chance of winning, the organization and the city. Skiles will have some effect but won't be the primary reason a player passes on us.

Maybe Thibs didn't want the job and Henny panicked then settled on Skiles.

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

Do you have any sources to back up that statement?

Read and article about it a while back. You can do a quick google and look for it if you are so inclined. Even then, this is all speculation here. Nobody here is a Magic insider so this is just opinions. But seriously, it should be very obvious.

Edit: Also we fired JV midway or so through the season and let JB take over the rest of the way. Skiles was available then and had been unemployed since 2013. If Henny wanted to hire him, he would have done so months ago.

[NBlue]

Maybe Thibs didn't want the job and Henny panicked then settled on Skiles.

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

Do you have any sources to back up that statement?

So here are the facts.

1) Hennigan had never met Skiles
2) Skiles had been completely out of the NBA for 3 years
3) Skiles last coaching stint was an utter disaster over 5 years at another small market team.

So your position is -- that's the guy Henny went after on his own? Um, ok...

[TreasureCoast]

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

Do you have any sources to back up that statement?

So here are the facts.

1) Hennigan had never met Skiles
2) Skiles had been completely out of the NBA for 3 years
3) Skiles last coaching stint was an utter disaster over 5 years at another small market team.

So your position is -- that's the guy Henny went after on his own? Um, ok...

I remember Martins explaining in the press conference that he told Hennigan before he met Skiles that he should put all his preconceived notions about Skiles aside and let their meeting be his initial impression. Now that clearly proves that Martins' hair matches his persona: a greasy salesman!

[ezzzp]

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

After he failed on Thibs.

Thats what I think. Thibs was Hennys #1 target. After he missed out, Martins was like "Ok, you struck out with Thibs and failed miserably with Vaugh. Its my turn and I pick one of my all time Magic favs."

During the pres conference, nobody had a bigger smile than martins.

Thibs is Skiles on steroids...LOL ...this board would be in tears

When you yell and scream and holler and push every single day, at some point it becomes too much. While Thibodeau seems to know no other way of coaching, Joakim Noah told Shelburne that it might not even be necessary with this Bulls team: “Do you think I play hard because of a coach?” Noah asks. “Do you think Jimmy plays hard because of a coach? Do you think Derrick plays hard because of a coach?”

They'll have a new coach next year all the same, and whoever it is will bring major changes...A modernized offense, more rest and redefined roles will shake up the Windy City.

players didn't support Thibodeau's return during exit interviews and avoided him during the past offseason....choosing to work out outside the Bulls' practice facilities to avoid him, suggests his style had been wearing thin on them for a while.

Thibodeau has been known to ride his star players for heavy minutes, a practice that has been going out of style as teams try to find ways to prevent injury. Over the years, multiple Bulls have been encouraged to play through pain by their coach, which can also explain why some might have turned on him.

"Thibodeau, like Vinny Del Negro before him, relies on Hinrich for major minutes despite the fact that Hinrich is one of the least productive players in the NBA. He's a crutch, in a way."

Thibodeau is also known to be a hardass, grating on the players he coaches and the front office he reports to.

[ezzzp]

In case y'all forgot who RH was eyeing as well:

GM Rob Hennigan held face-to-face interviews with three other candidates before hiring Skiles, Robbins writes in a separate story. They were former Warriors coach Mark Jackson, Iowa State coach Fred Hoiberg and Clippers assistant Mike Woodson, who has served as head coach of the Hawks and Knicks. “I truly wanted this to be an objective decision about his coaching ability,” CEO Alex Martins said of the hiring process. “I didn’t want my personal past with Scott and my experience with him of having been a player here and our relationship to enter into that.”

[tiderulz]

I have no choice but to believe yes -

Put yourself in a player's shoes in this situation. Most likely the week they start getting wood at midnight, they really start considering who they want to go to (with who is interested anyway). Let's say you're Mike Conley - if Orlando calls at midnight, the next morning, or even immediately after the call - your agent calls and says something like "Hey, Orlando is interested. What do you think?". The first thing you think about is money (let's be honest), then who is on the team, right? "Oh, at least, I'll be in the east", "I'll probably start".

"..but Skiles is their coach, f**k. Gotta pass".


That's how I would see it. Chances are, they also ask the agent and friends in the NBA what they think of Skiles. They have to, in my opinion.

I don't know about that. Like you said, the first thing FAs think about is gonna be the money. If we throw Conley a max, that alone will bring a smile to his face. Players think about coaches when they are choosing between teams. Like you said, I would figure the first thing an FA contemplates(besides $$$) is the quality of players, the conference that will give them the best chance of winning, the organization and the city. Skiles will have some effect but won't be the primary reason a player passes on us.

Nah, Martins and DeVos forced Skiles on Henny.

Do you have any sources to back up that statement?

Read and article about it a while back. You can do a quick google and look for it if you are so inclined. Even then, this is all speculation here. Nobody here is a Magic insider so this is just opinions. But seriously, it should be very obvious.

Edit: Also we fired JV midway or so through the season and let JB take over the rest of the way. Skiles was available then and had been unemployed since 2013. If Henny wanted to hire him, he would have done so months ago.

problem is, most of the good players will get multiple max offers. So after money is equal, coaches will quickly be viewed next

[tiderulz]

After he failed on Thibs.

Thats what I think. Thibs was Hennys #1 target. After he missed out, Martins was like "Ok, you struck out with Thibs and failed miserably with Vaugh. Its my turn and I pick one of my all time Magic favs."

During the pres conference, nobody had a bigger smile than martins.

Thibs is Skiles on steroids...LOL ...this board would be in tears

When you yell and scream and holler and push every single day, at some point it becomes too much. While Thibodeau seems to know no other way of coaching, Joakim Noah told Shelburne that it might not even be necessary with this Bulls team: “Do you think I play hard because of a coach?” Noah asks. “Do you think Jimmy plays hard because of a coach? Do you think Derrick plays hard because of a coach?”

They'll have a new coach next year all the same, and whoever it is will bring major changes...A modernized offense, more rest and redefined roles will shake up the Windy City.

players didn't support Thibodeau's return during exit interviews and avoided him during the past offseason....choosing to work out outside the Bulls' practice facilities to avoid him, suggests his style had been wearing thin on them for a while.

Thibodeau has been known to ride his star players for heavy minutes, a practice that has been going out of style as teams try to find ways to prevent injury. Over the years, multiple Bulls have been encouraged to play through pain by their coach, which can also explain why some might have turned on him.

"Thibodeau, like Vinny Del Negro before him, relies on Hinrich for major minutes despite the fact that Hinrich is one of the least productive players in the NBA. He's a crutch, in a way."

Thibodeau is also known to be a hardass, grating on the players he coaches and the front office he reports to.

granted injuries, but look how good Chicago is doing with a modernized offense and new coach

[Bensational]

Generally, I don't think coaches are the draw card, most players join a new team because of other players, team performace, team culture, money or other non-basketball reasons. But I guess it's worth considering player movement under Skiles' former teams.

Phoenix:
- no major FA acquisitions in 2 summers.
- there was rumours of him pushing to ship Kidd out of Phoenix after Kidd's legal issues. Skiles was fired the following season.

Chicago:
- Nocioni signed
- Eddy Curry (22) traded after Skiles' first full season (47 win season, too), for Jermaine Jackson, Tim Thomas (both waived), Mike Sweetney (22) and 2 future 1sts (LMA and Noah. Man, Chicago royally screwed themselves trading LMA for Tyrus Thomas!).
- Ben Wallace (32) signs in 2006 (summer of Skiles' 4th season).
- starter Tyson Chandler (23) was traded for 36 year old PJ Brown to be a reserve after Skiles 3rd year
- Joe Smith (32) signs after Skiles' 4th season for a bench role.

Milwaukee
- Joe Alexander (22), Hakim Warrick (27) and 2010 draft pick Kevin Seraphin traded for 30 year old John Salmons and Larry Sanders (and later, Isaiah Thomas) after Skiles' 1st season.
- Richard Jefferson (28) traded for Kurt Thomas (37), and Bruce Bowen (waived), and Fabricio Oberto, who was ultimately traded for Delfino (27).
- Drew Gooden (29) signs
- Dan Gadzuric traded for Maggette
- Maggette, Salmons for Stephen Jackson (33), Shaun Livingston (26) and Tobias Harris (19)
- Livingston (26) and Jeremy Lamb traded for Dalembert (
- Mike Dunleavy (31) signs.
- Andrew Bogut (27) and Stephen Jackson (33) traded for Monta Ellis (26), Kwame (waived) and Ekpe Udoh

I'll leave it to you guys to find patterns.

[JF5]

Generally, I don't think coaches are the draw card, most players join a new team because of other players, team performace, team culture, money or other non-basketball reasons. But I guess it's worth considering player movement under Skiles' former teams.

Phoenix:
- no major FA acquisitions in 2 summers.
- there was rumours of him pushing to ship Kidd out of Phoenix after Kidd's legal issues. Skiles was fired the following season.

Chicago:
- Nocioni signed
- Eddy Curry (22) traded after Skiles' first full season (47 win season, too), for Jermaine Jackson, Tim Thomas (both waived), Mike Sweetney (22) and 2 future 1sts (LMA and Noah. Man, Chicago royally screwed themselves trading LMA for Tyrus Thomas!).
- Ben Wallace (32) signs in 2006 (summer of Skiles' 4th season).
- starter Tyson Chandler (23) was traded for 36 year old PJ Brown to be a reserve after Skiles 3rd year
- Joe Smith (32) signs after Skiles' 4th season for a bench role.

Milwaukee
- Joe Alexander (22), Hakim Warrick (27) and 2010 draft pick Kevin Seraphin traded for 30 year old John Salmons and Larry Sanders (and later, Isaiah Thomas) after Skiles' 1st season.
- Richard Jefferson (28) traded for Kurt Thomas (37), and Bruce Bowen (waived), and Fabricio Oberto, who was ultimately traded for Delfino (27).
- Drew Gooden (29) signs
- Dan Gadzuric traded for Maggette
- Maggette, Salmons for Stephen Jackson (33), Shaun Livingston (26) and Tobias Harris (19)
- Livingston (26) and Jeremy Lamb traded for Dalembert (
- Mike Dunleavy (31) signs.
- Andrew Bogut (27) and Stephen Jackson (33) traded for Monta Ellis (26), Kwame (waived) and Ekpe Udoh

I'll leave it to you guys to find patterns.

Oh dear god...

[Def Swami]

He certainly doesn't help the case.

[ezzzp]

granted injuries, but look how good Chicago is doing with a modernized offense and new coach

Green font?

Under Thibs, Chicago was 50-32 (2nd Round) with an ORtg of 107.5 - that was 11th in NBA

Under Hoiberg, Chicago is 32-30 hanging on by their fingernails to 8th seed with an ORtg of 103.8 - that is 26th in NBA

...Thibs dealt with serious injury issues too

[OrlandO]

well let's just say I don't think Skiles as coach will be part of any sales pitch made to free agents....

[bigdogdylan5]

I give it to you money is number 1 for players but winning and coach/team fit are definitely second and third and are really close and Skiles definitely hurts us there. Think about it this way you have your choice of jobs they all pay the same since basically everyone has cap would you go work for the hard ass boss that consistently will throw you under bus to his boss blaming you for everything or any other one?

[neuraldarwinism]

in fairness to skiles, his player evaluations suck so he wouldnt go after quality free agents anyway

[RickB-Orlando]

After he failed on Thibs.

Thats what I think. Thibs was Hennys #1 target. After he missed out, Martins was like "Ok, you struck out with Thibs and failed miserably with Vaugh. Its my turn and I pick one of my all time Magic favs."

During the pres conference, nobody had a bigger smile than martins.

Thibs is Skiles on steroids...LOL ...this board would be in tears

When you yell and scream and holler and push every single day, at some point it becomes too much. While Thibodeau seems to know no other way of coaching, Joakim Noah told Shelburne that it might not even be necessary with this Bulls team: “Do you think I play hard because of a coach?” Noah asks. “Do you think Jimmy plays hard because of a coach? Do you think Derrick plays hard because of a coach?”

They'll have a new coach next year all the same, and whoever it is will bring major changes...A modernized offense, more rest and redefined roles will shake up the Windy City.

players didn't support Thibodeau's return during exit interviews and avoided him during the past offseason....choosing to work out outside the Bulls' practice facilities to avoid him, suggests his style had been wearing thin on them for a while.

Thibodeau has been known to ride his star players for heavy minutes, a practice that has been going out of style as teams try to find ways to prevent injury. Over the years, multiple Bulls have been encouraged to play through pain by their coach, which can also explain why some might have turned on him.

"Thibodeau, like Vinny Del Negro before him, relies on Hinrich for major minutes despite the fact that Hinrich is one of the least productive players in the NBA. He's a crutch, in a way."

Thibodeau is also known to be a hardass, grating on the players he coaches and the front office he reports to.

Stop trying to confuse things with facts. Thankfully you left out all the comments that NBA insiders have made about how well thought regarded Skiles is as a coach.

Most people on this board are convinced that the players hate Skiles, regardless of what people in the know are actually saying.

[OrlandoDream]

Generally, I don't think coaches are the draw card, most players join a new team because of other players, team performace, team culture, money or other non-basketball reasons. But I guess it's worth considering player movement under Skiles' former teams.

Phoenix:
- no major FA acquisitions in 2 summers.
- there was rumours of him pushing to ship Kidd out of Phoenix after Kidd's legal issues. Skiles was fired the following season.

Chicago:
- Nocioni signed
- Eddy Curry (22) traded after Skiles' first full season (47 win season, too), for Jermaine Jackson, Tim Thomas (both waived), Mike Sweetney (22) and 2 future 1sts (LMA and Noah. Man, Chicago royally screwed themselves trading LMA for Tyrus Thomas!).
- Ben Wallace (32) signs in 2006 (summer of Skiles' 4th season).
- starter Tyson Chandler (23) was traded for 36 year old PJ Brown to be a reserve after Skiles 3rd year
- Joe Smith (32) signs after Skiles' 4th season for a bench role.

Milwaukee
- Joe Alexander (22), Hakim Warrick (27) and 2010 draft pick Kevin Seraphin traded for 30 year old John Salmons and Larry Sanders (and later, Isaiah Thomas) after Skiles' 1st season.
- Richard Jefferson (28) traded for Kurt Thomas (37), and Bruce Bowen (waived), and Fabricio Oberto, who was ultimately traded for Delfino (27).
- Drew Gooden (29) signs
- Dan Gadzuric traded for Maggette
- Maggette, Salmons for Stephen Jackson (33), Shaun Livingston (26) and Tobias Harris (19)
- Livingston (26) and Jeremy Lamb traded for Dalembert (
- Mike Dunleavy (31) signs.
- Andrew Bogut (27) and Stephen Jackson (33) traded for Monta Ellis (26), Kwame (waived) and Ekpe Udoh

I'll leave it to you guys to find patterns.

We're so screwed.

[rusoopE]

well not sure if Skiles could be a very bad option for every player, but a coach and his staff is always a big key in hiring players, imagine if pop would be in orlando...