Summer Trades...never too early

[pepe1991]

First order of business is do whatever it takes to convince Evan Fournier he should opt out of his contract and then let him walk.

If he refuses, trade him immediately for any expiring contract.

I would heavily shop Vucevic as well, but I don't think that's going to happen.

a) He has to pick player's option to even be tradable
b) If he picks option he is exp contract for next year , if some team has desire to sign him they will be in contact before he picks option to avoid trade in first place
c) i'm not 100% sure but you can't trade him for player who's contract already expired and is FA ( because of date deadline for player's option)

And ofc, if he is gone, it's already a given that Magic will be more s**+y next year than they are this year.
Especially if Dj and him walk. Pending 35 wins season.

[tiderulz]

At the end of the season we will be at Year 3 of the Weham era and look to have taken a significant step back, but do have some hope with Issac and Fultz. They are our only two untouchables.

Packaging Fournier on draft night is critical. If we wait, we lose him for nothing if he opts out and if he is opts in his value will be much lower at the trade deadline. This front office had a 1st rounder for Elf Payton on draft night their first draft, but held on to him and later dumped him for a 2nd rounder. Gordon's value has also fallen.

Going back to draft night, we are going to have to see if we can get what we can for Fournier, maybe we can package the expiring of Augustin and our 1st rounder or Chuma. Would he opt in and go to Spurs if we went for Derozan? Can we swing for the fences and package him for Mccollum or Beal(I think less then 5% chance this happens)? We need a #1 option and we don't have cap room. So the best bet is to go big via trade and land a Derozan, or Mccollum.

Vucevic is one of the best big men out there, but doesn't have as much trade value as we once were hopeful for. I see ownership sticking with him unless a big offer comes along and it just won't happen. So after Fournier we have Gordon and Bamba as the next two and I think we have to do it. I don't think Weham trades Gordon unfortunately.

My prediction for summer time is we will make two trades swinging for the fence for a Fournier and DeRozan swap (both guys get extensions). Magic cut salary by swapping Ross for Powell.
Magic: Bamba, Fournier, Augustin, Chuma to Spurs
We get: Derozan, Poetl (Don't extend QO), Spurs 1st rounder

2nd Trade:
Magic trade Ross to Raptors
Magic receive Norman Powell, Future 2nd round pick

We draft: Zeke Naji and then trade the Spurs pick for a future 1st rounder, we draft Tre Jones in the 2nd round.
We resign Wesley Iwundu and Carter-williams and let Poetl and Frazier go and our big signing will be Nicholas Batum with the MLE.

Magic team
PG Markelle Fultz, Carter-Williams, (Draft: Tre Jones),
SG Demar Derozan, Norman Powell, Iwundu
SF Aaron Gordon, Nicholas Batum, James Ennis
PF John Issac, Al Aminu, (Draft: Zeke Naji with Spurs pick)
C Nik Vucevic, Khem Birch

Might not be exact players, but I expect similar like moves.

sorry, Evan cannot be traded due to his option.

[Skybox]

AG + 2020 frp for Caris Levert

AG + 2020 frp for James Johnson + Jarrett Culver

AG+ Ross for Derozan + White

Yes you got me i dont like Gordon on this team. One thing i blame FO is that they didnt trade Gordon last offseason. He had some value after promising playoffs, and we have enough data to confirm he is average player at best. Now i dont know how much value we can extract. We will have Isaac, Okeke, Aminu and Gordon, teams will try to low ball us, unless they really thing Gordon is a sf.

I like all of these but I think 1 and 2 are a little light considering the pick is added, perhaps adding in at least a 2rp, if not Juancho-type prospect to try out (how bad did your Magic ulcer feel when Beasley and Juancho contributed overnight to MIN's 3 point barrage?)

Third one I like but the new DeRozan deal could be frightening 30m+(if it's only 2 or 3 years-I'm in). It would have to be followed by getting some floor spreaders...Kennard? Somebody here proposed including Aminu in a deal-I'd really like to see him first as it's unlikely his trade return outweighs his possible value to us at this point.

[Knightro]

Evan has to decide his player option by June 29th, so the Magic will know where they stand with him before free agency opens.

But they can also trade him before June 29th if he commits to opting in early with his new team.

I’m suggesting trading Evan if he opts in for another contract that is also expiring after next season.

[Knightro]

And ofc, if he is gone, it's already a given that Magic will be more s**+y next year than they are this year.
Especially if Dj and him walk. Pending 35 wins season.

Pepe, the Magic are barreling towards 35 wins *THIS* year with 6 of their top 9 guys being veterans on their second or third contract.

No one can convince me that the Magic would actually be worse than they are right now if they let Augustin and Fournier walk for nothing in free agency and traded Vucevic and Ross.

[pepe1991]

And ofc, if he is gone, it's already a given that Magic will be more s**+y next year than they are this year.
Especially if Dj and him walk. Pending 35 wins season.

Pepe, the Magic are barreling towards 35 wins *THIS* year with 6 of their top 9 guys being veterans on their second or third contract.

No one can convince me that the Magic would actually be worse than they are right now if they let Augustin and Fournier walk for nothing in free agency and traded Vucevic and Ross.

So 30 wins next year

Ofc they would be worst. Team with no shooting giving up on only shooting they have.

[zaymon]

And ofc, if he is gone, it's already a given that Magic will be more s**+y next year than they are this year.
Especially if Dj and him walk. Pending 35 wins season.

Pepe, the Magic are barreling towards 35 wins *THIS* year with 6 of their top 9 guys being veterans on their second or third contract.

No one can convince me that the Magic would actually be worse than they are right now if they let Augustin and Fournier walk for nothing in free agency and traded Vucevic and Ross.

What a misleading post. Right now our rotation consists of 3 good veterans, one terrible veteran, two "rookies" and 4 minimum players.
Last sentence is pure madness i wont even try to convince you.

[GelbeWand09]

As if getting shooting is any problem. But you have to look for Shooters. You can always get the Korkmaz of this world for cheap. But the shooters we add probably at least doesnt think they are James Harden.

Even if we win only 30 games, which i doubt, with normal injury luck, thats still better than another 4 years of Vuc & Evan. We get a high pick, WeHam get fire under there Butts & the young guys are forced to deliver and we know what we got in them.
Whats the ceiling even in the best case scenario of a Vuc / Evan team. If we are healthy. If Okeke becomes Robert Covington & Gordon gets traded for a shooter? Are we much better than last year in a stronger eastern conference playoff race? Or still a 40-44 win 1st round exit 8-7th seed?
Look at the teams in front of us. Is our best case better than Milwaukee? Toronto? Boston? Philly? Even if they shake things up, they probably get a better fitting star for Simmons or Embiid. Indiana with a full season of Dipo & Sabonis + the Turner trade chip? Miami with Butler & all there producing young guns & Riley waiting already for the next available star? Brooklyn adding freaking Durant and a probably more healthy season of LeVert & Kyrie? Thats 7 teams significantly better than us.
Even in that best case scenarion, we are probably a 7th seed at best. What if Atlanta makes a big jump?

To say it again. The only playoff team that is not miles ahead of us in the moment, adds FREAKING KEVIN DURANT next season. Thats how far away we are. And no, we were a sub .500 before the injuries. Vuc, DJ & T-Ross regressed mightily from last season before the injuries already.

[Knightro]

What a misleading post. Right now our rotation consists of 3 good veterans, one terrible veteran, two "rookies" and 4 minimum players.
Last sentence is pure madness i wont even try to convince you.

It's not misleading whatsoever because I'm not suggesting the current rotation right now with the injuries.

I'm saying that when every single player on the roster is healthy, only 3 of the Magic's 9 rotation players (Fultz, Isaac and Bamba) would be guys on their rookie contracts and one of those guys is the 9th man. The backup C playing all of 15 MPG.

Everyone else - Augustin, Fournier, Ross, Gordon, Aminu and Vucevic - is a highly paid veteran and they're still barreling towards about 35 wins.

This season is as big of a disaster as you could possibly have and it's not close.

The organization, coaching staff and players are actively trying to win and are still only going manage to win 35?

They had to stretch a guy with a big expiring that could have possibly been used as a salary filler in a trade and also not sign their 1st round pick to avoid the friggin luxury tax! A completely capped out team (that's likely to make it even worse with Evan) that can't muster more than mid 30s wins?

Worst case scenario.

You cannot understate in any way how terrible this season has been from a "we want to accomplish X and we're actually only good enough to accomplish Y" perspective thus far.

[VFX]

And ofc, if he is gone, it's already a given that Magic will be more s**+y next year than they are this year.
Especially if Dj and him walk. Pending 35 wins season.

Pepe, the Magic are barreling towards 35 wins *THIS* year with 6 of their top 9 guys being veterans on their second or third contract.

No one can convince me that the Magic would actually be worse than they are right now if they let Augustin and Fournier walk for nothing in free agency and traded Vucevic and Ross.

So 30 wins next year

Ofc they would be worst. Team with no shooting giving up on only shooting they have.

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.

At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

There is no real downside to blowing up this roster.

[GelbeWand09]

Pepe, the Magic are barreling towards 35 wins *THIS* year with 6 of their top 9 guys being veterans on their second or third contract.

No one can convince me that the Magic would actually be worse than they are right now if they let Augustin and Fournier walk for nothing in free agency and traded Vucevic and Ross.

So 30 wins next year

Ofc they would be worst. Team with no shooting giving up on only shooting they have.

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.
At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

Excactly. The smart teams in our situation try to get 4 producing young players or veterans on 10-12 mil contracts instead of 2 for 45 mil. When you are not a contender & not a rebuilding team you need flexibility more than everything. You need players you can trade everytime when a opportunity pops up like Houston, Miami, Indiana are doing.

[zaymon]

What a misleading post. Right now our rotation consists of 3 good veterans, one terrible veteran, two "rookies" and 4 minimum players.
Last sentence is pure madness i wont even try to convince you.

It's not misleading whatsoever because I'm not suggesting the current rotation right now with the injuries.

I'm saying that when every single player on the roster is healthy, only 3 of the Magic's 9 rotation players (Fultz, Isaac and Bamba) would be guys on their rookie contracts and one of those guys is the 9th man. The backup C playing all of 15 MPG.

Everyone else - Augustin, Fournier, Ross, Gordon, Aminu and Vucevic - is a highly paid veteran and they're still barreling towards about 35 wins.

This season is as big of a disaster as you could possibly have and it's not close.

The organization, coaching staff and players are actively trying to win and are still only going manage to win 35?

They had to stretch a guy with a big expiring that could have possibly been used as a salary filler in a trade and also not sign their 1st round pick to avoid the friggin luxury tax! A completely capped out team (that's likely to make it even worse with Evan) that can't muster more than mid 30s wins?

Worst case scenario.

You cannot understate in any way how terrible this season has been from a "we want to accomplish X and we're actually only good enough to accomplish Y" perspective thus far.

Most of this veterans were, or are injured. For me one who dissapointed is Ross. Gordon i knew what we have in him and i hope its his last season with us. Vucevic is struggling a little, but still a good player.
I think we wanted to fight for the playoffs, and we currently are so i dont think this season is such a disaster. Worst thing happened was Isaac injury, rest is kind of irrelevant.

[zaymon]

So 30 wins next year

Ofc they would be worst. Team with no shooting giving up on only shooting they have.

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.
At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

Excactly. The smart teams in our situation try to get 4 producing young players or veterans on 10-12 mil contracts instead of 2 for 45 mil. When you are not a contender & not a rebuilding team you need flexibility more than everything. You need players you can trade everytime when a opportunity pops up like Houston, Miami, Indiana are doing.

Miami who everyone loves to compare us too did the same thing we are doing. They resigned their veterans and gathered their assets. NEVER TANKED. How can anyone bring Miami in this conversation and wont even check what they did for the last few years ?

[Knightro]

Most of this veterans were, or are injured. For me one who dissapointed is Ross. Gordon i knew what we have in him and i hope its his last season with us. Vucevic is struggling a little, but still a good player.
I think we wanted to fight for the playoffs, and we currently are so i dont think this season is such a disaster. Worst thing happened was Isaac injury, rest is kind of irrelevant.

This is not really accurate.

Fournier, Ross, Gordon, Fultz and Vucevic (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th on the team in MPG) have COMBINED to only miss 21 games.

That's pretty healthy all things considered.

Augustin and Aminu were the 7th and 8th men in the rotation. Those injuries are certainly not the reason why things are going so poorly.

Isaac's injury is unfortunate because he was playing so well defensively, but the were only on pace for 36 wins when he got injured anyway. Can't say his injury is the reason why they're struggling because they were already struggling before he went down.

[GelbeWand09]

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.
At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

Excactly. The smart teams in our situation try to get 4 producing young players or veterans on 10-12 mil contracts instead of 2 for 45 mil. When you are not a contender & not a rebuilding team you need flexibility more than everything. You need players you can trade everytime when a opportunity pops up like Houston, Miami, Indiana are doing.

Miami who everyone loves to compare us too did the same thing we are doing. They resigned their veterans and gathered their assets. NEVER TANKED. How can anyone bring Miami in this conversation and wont even check what they did for the last few years ?

1st How about you talk about the content of my message ?
2nd They did what i said. Signing alotta players on middling contracts. Hey suprise, they made a tons of trades now in a hurry, because of flexibility. Even slightly to bad contracts are easy to trade because every team got tons of those. Trading players like Vuc & Evan on 20+ is when it gets tricky.
3rd I wrote teams that are not contenders or REBUILDING teams. I know we wont tank under the new FO. Thats why i showed examples of teams in our current situation. If i wanna tank got nothing to do with that.
4th I wrote YOUNG or veterans. Which includes all there high producing players on rookie contracts

[Knightro]

Miami who everyone loves to compare us too did the same thing we are doing. They resigned their veterans and gathered their assets. NEVER TANKED. How can anyone bring Miami in this conversation and wont even check what they did for the last few years ?

Miami also has the absolute best player development staff in the NBA and has been able to dramatically outproduce draft slot on guys like Herro, Adebayo, Nunn, Richardson, Whiteside, Johnson, Robinson, etc.

Comparatively speaking, Miami is also a much bigger destination city for players than a place like Orlando.

Jimmy Butler *wanted* to go there without them even having any star players. No marquee names want to come to Orlando under the same circumstances.

[pepe1991]

Magic fans: we want what Heat has
Also Magic fans : get rid of every player over age of 22 so we can be favorite pedophiles team

[VFX]

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.
At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

Excactly. The smart teams in our situation try to get 4 producing young players or veterans on 10-12 mil contracts instead of 2 for 45 mil. When you are not a contender & not a rebuilding team you need flexibility more than everything. You need players you can trade everytime when a opportunity pops up like Houston, Miami, Indiana are doing.

Miami who everyone loves to compare us too did the same thing we are doing. They resigned their veterans and gathered their assets. NEVER TANKED. How can anyone bring Miami in this conversation and wont even check what they did for the last few years ?

Developed Bam Adebayo (pick #14 2017)
Developed Nunn (undrafted)
Developed Robinson (undrafted)
Developing Herro (27mpg #13 pick)
Trading for an elite player in Butler.
Trading Winslow for a great role player in Iguodala.

These are the reasons Miami is ahead of Orlando. They take chances on young players and actually develop them. They know when to move on from players that don’t make sense with their roster. They don’t overpay them when they provide **** results.

Also, Orlando is NOT Miami despite how many people think we have the same draw for free agents. Never going to happen until we land an elite player.

[Knightro]

Magic fans: we want what Heat has
Also Magic fans : get rid of every player over age of 22 so we can be favorite pedophiles team

Suggesting that the Magic should simply "replicate the HEAT" is similar to the people suggesting the Magic should replicate the Bucks or Nuggets and just find a top 5 NBA player later in the draft.

It's not realistic.

Miami's player development staff is unlike any other in the NBA. Plus they're a destination city.

[pepe1991]

So 30 wins next year

Ofc they would be worst. Team with no shooting giving up on only shooting they have.

And?

What’s the difference between a 30 win team and a 35 win team in the grand scheme? Nothing, it’s still an inconsequential **** nba team.
At least the former will be getting better draft odds and won’t be overpaying crap players to get +5 wins.

Excactly. The smart teams in our situation try to get 4 producing young players or veterans on 10-12 mil contracts instead of 2 for 45 mil. When you are not a contender & not a rebuilding team you need flexibility more than everything. You need players you can trade everytime when a opportunity pops up like Houston, Miami, Indiana are doing.

Actually difference between 30 and 40 games is huge.
It's actually in most cases addition of 1 great player difference.
If Warriors won "just" 10 games more they would have been 82-0 so 10 games means A LOT.
it's also difference between 40 and 50 wins, "just" 10 games.

last year 10 games swing was difference between home court adventage in first round on East ( Celtics) and missing playoffs ( Hornets)

This roster is underperforming because they lost 2 starters from last year and replaced them with limited , non-shooters. What's so suprising about current record but fact they are somehow still in playoffs ?
Being 8th means that HALF of the East is WORST than you are.

Magic fans should know better than any other fans that going from 25 to 35 wins is paaaaainfuuuuuull experience and after hitting rock bottom you have long way to come to halfway of standings.

Some posters are being hypocrics who are "tired of Evan" because "same face for years" and yet hope to God they keep Gordon around, despite them playing same amount of time for Magic.
Part of same posters who are "tired" of Evan were crying a river for Payton and Hezonja after 3 and 4 years of constant sucking.

So let's not pretend that every opinion is worth the same.

I don't care if Evan is gone, and if DJ is gone per-se. I know that they won't find adequate replacments because on FA market they don't attract anybody nor they have money to sign anybody that will bring them equal value. So it will be stuffing roster with more garbage that is willing to come. How execlly that will help a team? I guess in same manners how Aminu helped

By far most desired outcome of Evan situation is that he picks up his player's option for next year. SO you can trade him for equal value later or/and attack playoffs next year once again, with healty, and somewhat changed roster.

But ofc most people are hypocrits who deep inside know that, but because they are "tired" of good player, they want him gone. But that's non of my business.