poll: Austin Reaves and/or Fred VanVleet

[KillMonger]

why does he have to stand in the corner?

well he's best with the ball in his hands, who's hands we taking the ball out of if he plays here? Fultz? not a chance he runs the show as of now....Franz? can't see it......Paolo? that would be a joke.....So until Fultz shows he can shoot consistently, it's no use having him on the floor unless he has the ball in his hands a lot as he's not an off-ball threat......So how is reeves fitting into that? primarily as a floor spacer in my eyes....

Reaves though doesnt have to pound the air out of the ball. with more people that can handle the ball, the ball can move around faster. the better teams have multiple ball handlers

sure in general but that's not quite how WE play....unfortunately we do a little too much pounding the air out of the ball in our offense

[tiderulz]

well he's best with the ball in his hands, who's hands we taking the ball out of if he plays here? Fultz? not a chance he runs the show as of now....Franz? can't see it......Paolo? that would be a joke.....So until Fultz shows he can shoot consistently, it's no use having him on the floor unless he has the ball in his hands a lot as he's not an off-ball threat......So how is reeves fitting into that? primarily as a floor spacer in my eyes....

Reaves though doesnt have to pound the air out of the ball. with more people that can handle the ball, the ball can move around faster. the better teams have multiple ball handlers

sure in general but that's not quite how WE play....unfortunately we do a little too much pounding the air out of the ball in our offense

maybe we wouldnt if we had more ball handlers

[KillMonger]

Reaves though doesnt have to pound the air out of the ball. with more people that can handle the ball, the ball can move around faster. the better teams have multiple ball handlers

sure in general but that's not quite how WE play....unfortunately we do a little too much pounding the air out of the ball in our offense

maybe we wouldnt if we had more ball handlers

maybe but mose is going to have to show me that

[drsd]

#blowitup

Really?

You want to restart the rebuild?


//

[eyriq]

#blowitup

Really?

You want to restart the rebuild?


//

The backcourt, blow up the backcourt

[drsd]

The backcourt, blow up the backcourt[/quote]

If the Magic do acquire VanVleet, I would hope that both Fultz and Suggs are shipped off. But I think Anthony could be a nice backup to VanVleet. And then the Magic could go for either a star SG (e.g. Beal) or a 3D SG (e.g. Terance Mann). Or, to stay on topic, Reaves at SG would definitely compliment VanVleet as a lead guard.

[eyriq]

If the Magic do acquire VanVleet, I would hope that both Fultz and Suggs are shipped off. But I think Anthony could be a nice backup to VanVleet. And then the Magic could go for either a star SG (e.g. Beal) or a 3D SG (e.g. Terance Mann). Or, to stay on topic, Reaves at SG would definitely compliment VanVleet as a lead guard.

The way I'm thinking about it. We need a veteran to help lead the team into playoff contention, which preferably has a good pedigree. FVV passes this as a former allstar and a former NBA champion.

Then we need a rising star at a guard position. We have two lottery picks and an unfinished story with Suggs.

The last thing I'm worried about is the bench rotation. I like Jonathan Isaac. I like Bol. I like Moritz Wagner. I like Goga.

Deep bench. I still like Caleb Houston and I still like Okeke. We can do some other small deals or whatever.

[Skybox]

First of all, it’s completely clear that FVV would not be getting $30m to play the CJ “undersized spot up SG” role, so the whole poll is misleading. He would come in as QB1, pushing Fultz out of that spot…just because FVV has successfully played next to Lowry in the past doesn’t make it an ideal pairing. SG’s who can shoot are a lot easier to find than a savvy lead PG.

I keep trying to figure out who you keep referring to when you write about "FVV"?

The only FVV that I know played for the Raptors last season and he is not a good shooter and is a ball hog (the exact opposite of a "savvy lead PG").

Not to mention that he is commonly referred to as Freddie Toast (other times Freddie Ball Hog) as he gets burnt so bad on defense.

Yeh, that is the guy I want to bring in to lead this team.

And before moving on to his "championship pedigree", that team was made up of Snow White and the 7 dwarves and Freddie Ball Hog was Grumpy. Not sure bringing in Grumpy dwarf to a young Magic team is a great fit.

Wow. That's some great stuff.

[Skybox]

First of all, it’s completely clear that FVV would not be getting $30m to play the CJ “undersized spot up SG” role, so the whole poll is misleading. He would come in as QB1, pushing Fultz out of that spot…just because FVV has successfully played next to Lowry in the past doesn’t make it an ideal pairing. SG’s who can shoot are a lot easier to find than a savvy lead PG.

If Fultz is in Magic blue, he will be starting. This thus squarely leads to a lot of confusion as to why VanVleet would be brought in. At least confusing to me. But that's been discussed in depth in the VanVleet thread.

..

I agree with this statement. It would be insane to bring in FVV to play next to Fultz - he would be a replacement or no thanks.

[Skybox]

I don't think it can quite be overstated just how big an upgrade FVV would be for our backcourt. He's currently ranked 53rd by the Ringer. Our only backcourt player to rank is Fultz, at 122.

A. Our backcourt sucks, probably worse in the league
B. FVV IS A FREAKING STUD

This is the reality...we can debate FVV's price, his predicted decline, or whether we're ready to make a big move, etc

But there is NO debate about where FVV compares to any of our backcourt...It's just not a topic. He's in an entirely different stratosphere.

He's always been small and less athletic and he's always been a solid defender. He's not a ball hog - that's just baseless no matter how many times you choose to shout it. He's a very good player...there's no reasonable basis for comparison with anyone in ORL's backcourt.

[SOUL]

If the Magic do acquire VanVleet, I would hope that both Fultz and Suggs are shipped off. But I think Anthony could be a nice backup to VanVleet. And then the Magic could go for either a star SG (e.g. Beal) or a 3D SG (e.g. Terance Mann). Or, to stay on topic, Reaves at SG would definitely compliment VanVleet as a lead guard.

The way I'm thinking about it. We need a veteran to help lead the team into playoff contention, which preferably has a good pedigree. FVV passes this as a former allstar and a former NBA champion.

Then we need a rising star at a guard position. We have two lottery picks and an unfinished story with Suggs.

The last thing I'm worried about is the bench rotation. I like Jonathan Isaac. I like Bol. I like Moritz Wagner. I like Goga.

Deep bench. I still like Caleb Houston and I still like Okeke. We can do some other small deals or whatever.

You don't like the guard rotation that are (granted) all average.. but like Okeke (kinda bad), Isaac (unreliable), Bol (young but bad), MoeW (energy 3rd stringer/sometimes good), Goga (unproven but decent)?

I do think we need a star guard but I think there's more talent in our guard spots, which means less worry for me. If we're talking about a championship, sure, but people are too obsessed with finding stars at every position when it's very simple. Just need 1 superstar or 2 stars which we hope are can be Paolo/Franz, a bunch of guys that do their job well, and a bench that isn't trash.

Not sure I agree with drsd's post either.. ship a potential 3&D guy off in Suggs for an older one in Mann? People are going to be complaining in the next years if we start to overcorrect with what we need and realize we have a bunch of guys who aren't great at the little things.

[thelead]

I would go with Reaves because he would be cheaper and is way younger. Lakers likely match though.

FVV isn't leaving Toronto anyway IMO.

We have two lotto picks and a few young guards with room for growth. You can't wait forever but moving too fast is not smart either.

[thelead]

Hey guys, let's trade Suggs and a lotto pick for a 'proven' player... it worked out so well for us the last time we tried that

[SOUL]

A. Our backcourt sucks, probably worse in the league
B. FVV IS A FREAKING STUD

The guy shot 38/36, 40/37 and 39/34 the last 3 years. Let's calm down a bit This isn't a Brunson situation.

Raptors fans need shooting and guard play bad and a majority don't want him back.

I brought this up before and Knightro said that we can't trust Raptors fans or take them at their word, but then if I applied that same logic to Orlando fans with Fultz, people would be like "Well, that's different..." - I trust people who have watched this guy for the past 4-5 years over insane hyperbole from some of us. I'm sure some of them overstate his struggles, but obviously there's some big warts to have so many people wanting him out.

This is the reality...we can debate FVV's price, his predicted decline, or whether we're ready to make a big move, etc

But there is NO debate about where FVV compares to any of our backcourt...It's just not a topic. He's in an entirely different stratosphere.

I mean that is the debate though. Is he worth bringing over at an expensive price while turning 30 with numbers that aren't great, even if he is an upgrade to our team?

Is he worth chasing or will names that make more sense for us spring up in the next year?

The issue isn't finding an upgrade for our team, it's deciding when and who to make those moves on. Sometimes you gotta ignore the short-term boon.

[Bensational]

We need to have patience with the process and give our young guys time to acclimate and start ramping up to their prime. I don’t think making either of these two the highest paid player on the team is a good idea when we have a stable full of young pieces who have proven they deserve more time to show how good they can become.

It’s better to save these big spends for closer to the end of Paolo and Franz’s rookie deals once we have a stronger idea of how ready they are for a deep playoff run.

[eyriq]

If the Magic do acquire VanVleet, I would hope that both Fultz and Suggs are shipped off. But I think Anthony could be a nice backup to VanVleet. And then the Magic could go for either a star SG (e.g. Beal) or a 3D SG (e.g. Terance Mann). Or, to stay on topic, Reaves at SG would definitely compliment VanVleet as a lead guard.

The way I'm thinking about it. We need a veteran to help lead the team into playoff contention, which preferably has a good pedigree. FVV passes this as a former allstar and a former NBA champion.

Then we need a rising star at a guard position. We have two lottery picks and an unfinished story with Suggs.

The last thing I'm worried about is the bench rotation. I like Jonathan Isaac. I like Bol. I like Moritz Wagner. I like Goga.

Deep bench. I still like Caleb Houston and I still like Okeke. We can do some other small deals or whatever.

You don't like the guard rotation that are (granted) all average.. but like Okeke (kinda bad), Isaac (unreliable), Bol (young but bad), MoeW (energy 3rd stringer/sometimes good), Goga (unproven but decent)?

I do think we need a star guard but I think there's more talent in our guard spots, which means less worry for me. If we're talking about a championship, sure, but people are too obsessed with finding stars at every position when it's very simple. Just need 1 superstar or 2 stars which we hope are can be Paolo/Franz, a bunch of guys that do their job well, and a bench that isn't trash.

Not sure I agree with drsd's post either.. ship a potential 3&D guy off in Suggs for an older one in Mann? People are going to be complaining in the next years if we start to overcorrect with what we need and realize we have a bunch of guys who aren't great at the little things.

I should clarify. I like JI as a combo forward off the bench, Moritz as a combo big off the bench, and Goga as a power center off the bench. Rotation guys but not key contributors. I like Bol and Okeke as 3rd stringers.

Now, as to talent in our guard spots right now... I mean I don't think Cole and Fultz are trash by any means, but I don't see star upside. And when I think about where we are in our rebuild, and when I think about what we can do in this years lottery, it just makes too much sense to go in for another bite at the lottery apple and try for a rising star at the guard position.

[SOUL]

Now, as to talent in our guard spots right now... I mean I don't think Cole and Fultz are trash by any means, but I don't see star upside. And when I think about where we are in our rebuild, and when I think about what we can do in this years lottery, it just makes too much sense to go in for another bit at the lottery apple and try for a rising star at the guard position.

Cole can probably be a top 5 backup guard if he wants to be that. I agree if we're talking about being a starter but he might have insane value depending on price as a backup guard. Fultz will have this upcoming season to prove who he will be in the league. If he continues to be just a solid player that has huge warts in his game for a guard, I think we'd probably look to upgrade. Suggs already has value with defense alone but his offense is what is going to get him paid or not.

I think there's just more question marks there, but all of these guys are easily playable for 20-30 minutes a game while I'm not sure I can say that for most of the 2nd/3rd stringer forwards or centers we have.

Lottery should just be BPA. If there's no guard in a spot we think could even be half decent, maybe we package it.

[thelead]

We need to have patience with the process and give our young guys time to acclimate and start ramping up to their prime. I don’t think making either of these two the highest paid player on the team is a good idea when we have a stable full of young pieces who have proven they deserve more time to show how good they can become.

It’s better to save these big spends for closer to the end of Paolo and Franz’s rookie deals once we have a stronger idea of how ready they are for a deep playoff run.

I like the Reaves signing because he would 'only' make ~$11 mil per for the first two years IIRC (it jumps to $30 mil for the last two season if we 'max' him out). That works fairly well considering we would still have plenty of cap space next summer to make a big splash... but again, Lakers would match so I'm not going to worry about it much.

[Last Guardian]

Hey guys, let's trade Suggs and a lotto pick for a 'proven' player... it worked out so well for us the last time we tried that

The board lost its mind, no other explanation

[MasterGMer]

I think Magic needs to be smart enough for what they do.

Yes, we have cap space right now probably up to 55M. We have needs at backup rotational spots in SG, Forward and Center. Or, we could upgrade our starting PG or SG.

We do not necessarily have to spend this summer. Why? Because we just need to be patient and rely on the draft possibly or internal growth.

In two years when rookie extension kicks in, we gonna spend a ton on our rookies like Cole, Franz and Paolo. If we somehow spend this summer, we probably will hit luxury tax when that happens. That is a big NO NO. Does the owner want to do that for a small market team like Orlando? I don’t think so.

So what? We have to find quality and reasonable free agent this summer. We do not need 35M on FVV. When Franz and Paolo hits rookie extension, FVV will be probably 33 or 34, right on the decline.

Let’s just be patient and rely on our young guys to develop. We need continuity and culture. Plus we need to find our identity as a team! That is more key than signing FVV


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