What effect would Trae have on Paolo?

[cedric76]

I think offensively there is little debate Trae would make Paolo life much easier. People would be surprised how efficient Paolo can be with real ball handler. Would he dribble the ball less ? Yes, for sure, but seeing him for last 2 years thats what he needs to be more effective. Those 1/4 pick and roll would be lethal, and Paolo would finally feel how its like to catch a lob. We could still go with Paolo isolation whenever we wanted to.
Defensively it would be tougher especially in lineups without JI. WCJ is a bad option to cover for both of them. Thats why Suggs/Harris/WCJ worked well in the playoffs becouse they could all switch. You cant do that with Young. We would need Claxton or force JI in to the starting lineup.
I would think about that trade depending on assets needed to add. Adding Franz is 100% no and even adding Suggs would be hard to justify unless we think Black is a solid starter next year. We are propably few years away from such risky move. There is no need to do that. We can roll with Jones/Dlo/Monk and see how it goes than pivot to more risky moves if needed.

There is debate actually, Trae s huge usage rate would be really bad for Paolo and Franz

[MartinsIzAfraud]

I think offensively there is little debate Trae would make Paolo life much easier. People would be surprised how efficient Paolo can be with real ball handler. Would he dribble the ball less ? Yes, for sure, but seeing him for last 2 years thats what he needs to be more effective. Those 1/4 pick and roll would be lethal, and Paolo would finally feel how its like to catch a lob. We could still go with Paolo isolation whenever we wanted to.
Defensively it would be tougher especially in lineups without JI. WCJ is a bad option to cover for both of them. Thats why Suggs/Harris/WCJ worked well in the playoffs becouse they could all switch. You cant do that with Young. We would need Claxton or force JI in to the starting lineup.
I would think about that trade depending on assets needed to add. Adding Franz is 100% no and even adding Suggs would be hard to justify unless we think Black is a solid starter next year. We are propably few years away from such risky move. There is no need to do that. We can roll with Jones/Dlo/Monk and see how it goes than pivot to more risky moves if needed.

There is debate actually, Trae s huge usage rate would be really bad for Paolo and Franz

Paolo was already at 30%, Franz at 25%. Paolo down the stretch was being asked to do way too much and it hurt us. Taking away some usage could definitely help us offensively.

Only way Trae works is if he buys into the gameplan.

[Rainwater]

I just don’t like how Trae plays basketball, I think he is very overrated. He is good at getting points, fishing for fouls, and passing but he doesn’t do much else. Crowned the next Curry he is far from it. While a good scorer he is a very inefficient and avg to poor shooter. He has only shot over 45% from the field once in his career and shoots below 40% from 3 for his career. He tends to take bad shots while also talking too many shots. He is turnover prone and he plays no defense.

With that being said he may work as a second or third option but it would be vital that he breaks many of the habits listed above. If not it would be sad to watch Trae chuck bad shot after bad shot as Franz and Paolo watch. There is a reason why coaches like coach Pop don’t want him even as a second option.

he doesnt just shoot below 40%, he shoots WELL below 40% from 3.

Edited, lol.

[BadMofoPimp]

Sure he would help and his defense could be overcome with 4 other defensive players around him. But, I doubt the Magic can even come close to offering an acceptable trade without giving up one of Suggs, Paolo or Franz. Maybe WCJ, Black, Jett and two future 1sts. I am sure a team like another team could make a better offer.

[The-Stallion70]

Paolo is probably being asked to do to much as the main ball handler AND the main scorer. It doesn't surprise me to see that most posters have missed the point of this thread.

Paolo probably really wants a primary ball handler around because it may allow him to focus on his scoring game and really develop as a scorer.

[cedric76]

Having Trae+Franz+Paolo means that you ll soon hit the 2nd apron and this is VERY bad.

2nd apron isn't only about spending more money (which most wealthy owners don't care), it s also about penalties that block you from improving your team.

Trade restrictions
Free agency restrictions
Pick trades restrictions

Etc....

The only time it s ok to be above the 2nd apron is when you won a title and want to keep your core together

[GelbeWand09]

I just don’t like how Trae plays basketball, I think he is very overrated. He is good at getting points, fishing for fouls, and passing but he doesn’t do much else. Crowned the next Curry he is far from it. While a good scorer he is a very inefficient and avg to poor shooter. He has only shot over 45% from the field once in his career and shoots below 40% from 3 for his career. He tends to take bad shots while also talking too many shots. He is turnover prone and he plays no defense.

With that being said he may work as a second or third option but it would be vital that he breaks many of the habits listed above. If not it would be sad to watch Trae chuck bad shot after bad shot as Franz and Paolo watch. There is a reason why coaches like coach Pop don’t want him even as a second option.

he doesnt just shoot below 40%, he shoots WELL below 40% from 3.

Edited, lol.

That doesnt even matter that much because he got the reputation of being a 3Point shooter. Unlike all our ''shooters'', despite his % he got insane gravity combined with top 3-5 passing vision, which is much more important to open the offense.
I'm not a big Trae fan but he definitely would improve our offense a lot.

[cedric76]

he doesnt just shoot below 40%, he shoots WELL below 40% from 3.

Edited, lol.

That doesnt even matter that much because he got the reputation of being a 3Point shooter. Unlike all our ''shooters'', despite his % he got insane gravity combined with top 3-5 passing vision, which is much more important to open the offense.
I'm not a big Trae fan but he definitely would improve our offense a lot.

Top 3-5 passing vision??? 4.4 TO per page , not even in the top 25 in Ass/To ratio (below guys like Monk)

People really need to stop with this fool's gold

[Rainwater]

Edited, lol.

That doesnt even matter that much because he got the reputation of being a 3Point shooter. Unlike all our ''shooters'', despite his % he got insane gravity combined with top 3-5 passing vision, which is much more important to open the offense.
I'm not a big Trae fan but he definitely would improve our offense a lot.

Top 3-5 passing vision??? 4.4 TO per page , not even in the top 25 in Ass/To ratio (below guys like Monk)

People really need to stop with this fool's gold

Yeah, he just has so many flaws in his game.

[pepe1991]

he doesnt just shoot below 40%, he shoots WELL below 40% from 3.

Edited, lol.

That doesnt even matter that much because he got the reputation of being a 3Point shooter. Unlike all our ''shooters'', despite his % he got insane gravity combined with top 3-5 passing vision, which is much more important to open the offense.
I'm not a big Trae fan but he definitely would improve our offense a lot.

Problem is that he also thinks he is better shooter than he is. Guy averges 9 three point attemps per game in playoffs, while shooting 30%.

Trae Young in playoffs while left wide open:

2021: 25/83
2022: 4/9
2023: 12/30

41/122, that's 33,6% . Wide open.



Trae in playoffs wile getting open shots:
2021: 19/57
2022: 3/26
2023: 6/22

28/105, that's 26,6%. Open.


So overall he never had shooting showcase in playoffs that was even average.

Even in series vs Celtics, he did average 30-10, but if you dig bit deeper:
lowest EFG on a team- Trae
lowest 3% on a team- Trae
lowest raw FG- Trae
lowest TS- Trae


How did he get that many points? Well, Bogdan had 70% TS , but Bogdan attemped 54 shots whole series long, Trae Young attemped 149
Murray who avearged 23 ppg, still attemped only 103 shots (46 less than Trae).

So real question is: can Trae be effective scorer and not just skyhigh usage shooter who just "shoots" himself into fat stats? Or pairing him and Banchero will look execlly like pairing of Melo & Iverson, where you have 3 NPC starters as two of them exchange in never ending shooting barage of low efficiency shots in hope refs save them.

Whole question boils down to simple , personal opinion, do you belive it's possible to win championship with 5'11- 165 pounds unathletic PG who takes 30% usage ?

[cedric76]

Edited, lol.

Whole question boils down to simple , personal opinion, do you belive it's possible to win championship with 5'11- 165 pounds unathletic PG who takes 30% usage ?

Answer is Simple: NOOOOOOOOOOO

[Skybox]

[
So real question is: can Trae be effective scorer and not just skyhigh usage shooter who just "shoots" himself into fat stats? Or pairing him and Banchero will look execlly like pairing of Melo & Iverson, where you have 3 NPC starters as two of them exchange in never ending shooting barage of low efficiency shots in hope refs save them.
?

This is what it boils down to…if you have a Paolo, adding Trae could ( likely) be a chemistry disaster. I like Trae and I loved Iverson, but you can’t simply add them to a team and expect it to mesh gracefully. Those are all guys you need to build a complementary supporting cast around and let them do their thing. Otherwise, somebody’s being badly compromised…and, generally, it’s not going to be the guy who’s got the ball off the inbounds.

This isn’t even factoring in cost in assets to get him, salary added to upcoming extensions (including Isaac). I mihpght be the most “aggressive” trader here but I think Trae could be a mistake for THIS team.

[GelbeWand09]

Edited, lol.

That doesnt even matter that much because he got the reputation of being a 3Point shooter. Unlike all our ''shooters'', despite his % he got insane gravity combined with top 3-5 passing vision, which is much more important to open the offense.
I'm not a big Trae fan but he definitely would improve our offense a lot.

Top 3-5 passing vision??? 4.4 TO per page , not even in the top 25 in Ass/To ratio (below guys like Monk)

People really need to stop with this fool's gold

What has TO to do with passing Vision? LeBron is always around 3.5 - 4.2 TO per game and he got one of the best visions ever. Low TO guys are mostly ol skool low risk pass guys. That has nothing to do with Passing Vision.
Trae lead the leaque in ASS% despite playing with a 2nd PG. You can hate the guy but doesnt make stuff up just because you doesnt like a player or his playing style. I doesnt like Trae's attitude or his playing style but i still can acknowledge the things he is good at. He is a very good offensive player. There is a reason ATL's offense is good since he is there. Even in a extreme down year, his offensive stats are still MUCH better than Murray's (or any of our players, including Paolo), who hasnt made any winning impact on the Spurs or Atlanta.

[Knightro]

Having Trae+Franz+Paolo means that you ll soon hit the 2nd apron and this is VERY bad.

2nd apron isn't only about spending more money (which most wealthy owners don't care), it s also about penalties that block you from improving your team.

Trade restrictions
Free agency restrictions
Pick trades restrictions

Etc....

The only time it s ok to be above the 2nd apron is when you won a title and want to keep your core together

They wouldn’t hit the second apron for at least the next three seasons.

[cedric76]

Having Trae+Franz+Paolo means that you ll soon hit the 2nd apron and this is VERY bad.

2nd apron isn't only about spending more money (which most wealthy owners don't care), it s also about penalties that block you from improving your team.

Trade restrictions
Free agency restrictions
Pick trades restrictions

Etc....

The only time it s ok to be above the 2nd apron is when you won a title and want to keep your core together

They wouldn’t hit the second apron for at least the next three seasons.

Just in time when you want to make move to win a title, Terrible timing

So as i said, it s a short sighted move that Wepark would not make

[VFX]

The question isn’t about whether Trae would make lives easier for everyone on the court.

The question is whether you can pay everyone on the court 2-3 seasons from now if you trade for him. The answer is no.

[Knightro]

The question isn’t about whether Trae would make lives easier for everyone on the court.

The question is whether you can pay everyone on the court 2-3 seasons from now if you trade for him. The answer is no.

"2-3 seasons" is not really an accurate representation IMO.

The Magic would be able to run a Young/Paolo/Franz/Suggs four-man core for the next three seasons without hitting the second tax apron.

Now if the argument back is "oh well I don't think the Magic's ownership will want to pay the luxury tax period, much less approach the 1st or 2nd tax apron" then we obviously have much bigger problems because paying the tax is just a part of life for a contender.

But basically they would have 3 shots at making a championship run before they would be in truly rough financial shape and would need to get rid of one of the four guys.

And ultimately isn't a 3-year championship competitive window what we want? And at the end of it, they'd just let Young walk if it ended up not working out and they'd still have the guys they have now.

It just feels like far too many people get lost in the sauce of how bad something could hurt down several years road and not how much it could help the years before it hurts.

[Knightro]

Now look...

If your answer is "I don't think the Magic are a title contender with Young/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Center" - then ok. That obviously changes the calculus significantly.

If you don't think that way, then he's not worth pursuing.

[VFX]

The question isn’t about whether Trae would make lives easier for everyone on the court.

The question is whether you can pay everyone on the court 2-3 seasons from now if you trade for him. The answer is no.

"2-3 seasons" is not really an accurate representation IMO.

The Magic would be able to run a Young/Paolo/Franz/Suggs four-man core for the next three seasons without hitting the second tax apron.

Now if the argument back is "oh well I don't think the Magic's ownership will want to pay the luxury tax period, much less approach the 1st or 2nd tax apron" then we obviously have much bigger problems because paying the tax is just a part of life for a contender.

But basically they would have 3 shots at making a championship run before they would be in truly rough financial shape and would need to get rid of one of the four guys.

And ultimately isn't a 3-year championship competitive window what we want? And at the end of it, they'd just let Young walk if it ended up not working out and they'd still have the guys they have now.

It just feels like far too many people get lost in the sauce of how bad something could hurt down several years road and not how much it could help the years before it hurts.

Well you have one part of the issue. The money and timeframe.

The other side of this is at what cost? What assets are required for Trae Young? What does the team look like after this hypothetical trade? Is Orlando finding vet min guys to fill out important bench roles? Are they adding 3-4 firsts for the next half decade on top of filler?

It’s a two pronged issue and not just “meh we can make it work if it mean’s championships”.

No. You have to have proven depth and IF you manage to fumble this kind of trade you potentially lose a lot more than just the assets to get you there for the next 4+ seasons. I’m looking at Los Angeles or Phoenix in this situation. LA loses that bubble Mickey Mouse ring and their “all in” for AD is an abject failure. Phoenix is absolutely screwed and it’s deserving because their owner is an idiot that doesn’t understand timing.

[Knightro]

Well you have one part of the issue. The money and timeframe.

The other side of this is at what cost? What assets are required for Trae Young? What does the team look like after this hypothetical trade? Is Orlando finding vet min guys to fill out important bench roles? Are they adding 3-4 firsts for the next half decade on top of filler?

It’s a two pronged issue and not just “meh we can make it work if it mean’s championships”.

No. You have to have proven depth and IF you manage to fumble this kind of trade you potentially lose a lot more than just the assets to get you there for the next 4+ seasons. I’m looking at Los Angeles or Phoenix in this situation. LA loses that bubble Mickey Mouse ring and their “all in” for AD is an abject failure. Phoenix is absolutely screwed and it’s deserving.

It works both ways though. For every Phoenix that goes all in and busts, there's another team and then some that's had more success than they otherwise would have by being aggressive buyers.

Dallas, Minnesota, Miami, Boston, Milwaukee, Toronto a few years back, Indiana and New York on a smaller scale this year.

And I do find it a bit funny that one of your "failures" is a team that actually won a title. Give me that level of failure any day of the week