All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0

[VFX]

This, again, misses the point entirely on what Orlando is missing in this group. None of you have learned anything from the acquisitions this offseason.

The Orlando Magic do not need a volume shooting guard that gets 3 assists per game. Shooting has never been the issue. The problem is bad stagnant offense with guys taking difficult shots instead of easy shots. Orlando needs someone to create looks for the players they already have.

Our shooting is not an issue? We were 29th in the league last year in terms of 3pt FGA and one of the bottom 5 in 3pt shooting%

This season KCP didn't get going and Harris is missing all his shots

Our shooting is one of our biggest problem, sir

Jalen Suggs is shooting a repeat of .400 from last season currently.

Franz Wagner should be hitting 3’s as a max player if he’s actually worth his contract.

They signed KCP and Gary Harris.

And you want to tell me the answer to bad terrible offense is MORE shooting.

No. The answer to better offense is actually running plays with a point guard that can get players into better scoring opportunities. It’s never increasing volume shooting at one position by taking the ball out of Paolo and Franz hands. Obviously. Sir.

And no, you don’t make a random panic move trade because Paolo is out until January.

[Magicman125]

Simons hasn't had a great start thus far imo, but he is talented. I like him as an upgrade to Cole's role as a sixth man scoring punch, but he'd probably move KCP to the bench and Suggs to the 2 if we traded for him and would get more like 30 - 34 mpg.I worry about his efficiency and defense, but I do think he's better as a point guard/passer than is given credit for. He was just asked to do a lot for their team and had really high usage so was more looking to score, but he can pass decently too.

[three3d]

All this focus and fuss on defense alone is kinda crazy. Honestly, it doesn’t matter if you hold your appointment to 99 points if you can’t score 100.

[basketballRob]

All this focus and fuss on defense alone is kinda crazy. Honestly, it doesn’t matter if you hold your appointment to 99 points if you can’t score 100.

At the end of this season, Simons' agent is going to ask for a max extension.

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[Skybox]

After the deals Suggs & Franz got...Simons looks like a pauper while he puts up 22.6 with 3.4 3's made, 92% FTs, and 5.5 assists last year. I'm not and never have said he's a great player - he just does what we don't do and he's probably very available. Some of us have pitched trade offers for Schroder that would probably get it done for Simons...We could move KCP to the 2nd unit or watch Black and Simons beat the crap out of Suggs & KCP in practice (sometimes ). Simons could contend for 6th man of the year in what should have been the Cole role if ORL wanted to scheme that way with Paolo back.

ORL sends: DEN 25 frp (top 5), ORL 25 frp (top 8), Cole Anthony & Gary Harris
POR sends: Anfernee Simons
(tough to match salaries - POR definitely doesn't need any marginal Centers)

*I understand he's on a bad team - that means he gets more shots than he would here but it doesn't make the shots go in. You could also make the argument that he'd feast on opposing defenders as the 3rd option, rather than the only guy worth defending on POR. I think he's likely ready to subjugate himself as needed to play in a winning environment.

All kinds of backcourt pairings...with KCP even picking up some SF minutes...Suggs, KCP, Simons, Black can all play together in one of the strongest backcourt groups in the NBA. 3 of the 4 rotation guys playing ELITE defense and all 4 (maybe) capable of pushing for 40% from 3 - at least 2 at high volume.

[Last Guardian]

Seems like he's just a better Cole. Magic need a modern Penny.

[BlazersBroncos]

FWIW - as a Blazers fan I dont think Simons pulls 2 FRP.

Filler, Houstan or Howard and the lower of the 25 FRP should get it done. History has shown that players with Simons skillset and size dont pull a big return.

[Skybox]

FWIW - as a Blazers fan I dont think Simons pulls 2 FRP.

Filler, Houstan or Howard and the lower of the 25 FRP should get it done. History has shown that players with Simons skillset and size dont pull a big return.

I was also factoring in that we don't really have any expiring "filler", so if they don't love Cole we have to pay a little extra for the cap hit.

[BlazersBroncos]

FWIW - as a Blazers fan I dont think Simons pulls 2 FRP.

Filler, Houstan or Howard and the lower of the 25 FRP should get it done. History has shown that players with Simons skillset and size dont pull a big return.

I was also factoring in that we don't really have any expiring "filler", so if they don't love Cole we have to pay a little extra for the cap hit.

Ya I forgot Cole has 2 more years to Simons 1.

Not sure that necessitates another FRP though. Maybe a something like 3 SRP.

This actually works - and lets ORL keep Harris as a elite 3rd stringer and locker room vet -

Cole + Jett + lower 25 FRP + 3 future SRP for Simons.

[orlando_joe]

FWIW - as a Blazers fan I dont think Simons pulls 2 FRP.

Filler, Houstan or Howard and the lower of the 25 FRP should get it done. History has shown that players with Simons skillset and size dont pull a big return.

I was also factoring in that we don't really have any expiring "filler", so if they don't love Cole we have to pay a little extra for the cap hit.

Ya I forgot Cole has 2 more years to Simons 1.

Not sure that necessitates another FRP though. Maybe a something like 3 SRP.

This actually works - and lets ORL keep Harris as a elite 3rd stringer and locker room vet -

Cole + Jett + lower 25 FRP + 3 future SRP for Simons.

all i can do is shake my head on these crazy value for simons ...sky look on general board no other team even offers 1 first...he is now more like expiring and a 2nd or 2...lol
cole 3rd yr is team option so expiring next season if he does not turn around..if he has yr like 3rd yea he is a steal at 13 will be under mle by a few mill solid deal for 6th man...and that is what simons is also

[Skybox]

I was also factoring in that we don't really have any expiring "filler", so if they don't love Cole we have to pay a little extra for the cap hit.

Ya I forgot Cole has 2 more years to Simons 1.

Not sure that necessitates another FRP though. Maybe a something like 3 SRP.

This actually works - and lets ORL keep Harris as a elite 3rd stringer and locker room vet -

Cole + Jett + lower 25 FRP + 3 future SRP for Simons.

all i can do is shake my head on these crazy value for simons ...sky look on general board no other team even offers 1 first...he is now more like expiring and a 2nd or 2...lol
cole 3rd yr is team option so expiring next season if he does not turn around..if he has yr like 3rd yea he is a steal at 13 will be under mle by a few mill solid deal for 6th man...and that is what simons is also

Not really gauging value based on general board clowns (like us)...he's among the best shooters in the league - proven for years. You don't put up those points by accident. I think people terribly overestimate the value of frps from a team like DEN and even a team like ORL...especially with some reasonable protections. The difference between a top 5 pick and a pick in the 20's is night and day. If you want to reference other boards, look at the Magic thread where, recently, people were tearing up all of the ORL top 10 picks that amounted to little...the bunch of them wouldn't add up to 22ppg and 5.5 assists. He would have been our leading scorer, our leading assist guy and the most prolific 3-pt shooter on our roster last season. We just threw a max deal, a $30m x 5 deal, and $22m per for guys that didn't do anywhere near that offensive output. I understand that we doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on defense bu...if you want to go on about defense - I guess he'd be making $50m if he was a good defender. He's overpaid, not a good defender but he's REALLY good at what ORL is not. All of these crappy pieces don't add up to one proven, known quantity, young veteran.

Doesn't anyone else get tired of watching such an awful unreliable offense?

*By the way, I didn't include Jett in my proposal- I had Harris. IF Jett's in - that's another frp out, imo.

[Skybox]

Seems like he's just a better Cole. Magic need a modern Penny.

A better Cole sounds really good to me. Halliburton sounds nice - good luck with that.

[tester551]

ORL sends: DEN 25 frp (top 5), ORL 25 frp (top 8), Cole Anthony & Gary Harris
POR sends: Anfernee Simons

I like this. I think it's fair for both sides.

Portland has to either include one more player (or cut one) to make it a legal trade. Jabari Walker is likely available in this type of trade... but it looks like he makes just a hair too much (~$12k) to include him. Maybe he is routed elsewhere (Sacramento?) for a mediocre asset.

[basketballRob]

ORL sends: DEN 25 frp (top 5), ORL 25 frp (top 8), Cole Anthony & Gary Harris
POR sends: Anfernee Simons

I like this. I think it's fair for both sides.

Portland has to either include one more player (or cut one) to make it a legal trade. Jabari Walker is likely available in this type of trade... but it looks like he makes just a hair too much (~$12k) to include him. Maybe he is routed elsewhere (Sacramento?) for a mediocre asset.

Simons is due for an extension at the end of this season. I don't think the Magic would trade for him until they see what that extension looks like. We aren't going to have 3 max players when 2 of them aren't all stars.

Toronto would be a good trade partner for Portland. They like to pay non all stars big money.

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[Skybox]

ORL sends: DEN 25 frp (top 5), ORL 25 frp (top 8), Cole Anthony & Gary Harris
POR sends: Anfernee Simons

I like this. I think it's fair for both sides.

Portland has to either include one more player (or cut one) to make it a legal trade. Jabari Walker is likely available in this type of trade... but it looks like he makes just a hair too much (~$12k) to include him. Maybe he is routed elsewhere (Sacramento?) for a mediocre asset.

Simons is due for an extension at the end of this season. I don't think the Magic would trade for him until they see what that extension looks like. We aren't going to have 3 max players when 2 of them aren't all stars.

Toronto would be a good trade partner for Portland. They like to pay non all stars big money.

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Kind of funny that throughput the Simons talk…
1. We’ll have to pay him a ton
And,
2. He’s not worth a frp. Empty stats

[Walton1one]

Not really gauging value based on general board clowns (like us)...he's among the best shooters in the league - proven for years. You don't put up those points by accident. I think people terribly overestimate the value of frps from a team like DEN and even a team like ORL...especially with some reasonable protections. The difference between a top 5 pick and a pick in the 20's is night and day. If you want to reference other boards, look at the Magic thread where, recently, people were tearing up all of the ORL top 10 picks that amounted to little...the bunch of them wouldn't add up to 22ppg and 5.5 assists. He would have been our leading scorer, our leading assist guy and the most prolific 3-pt shooter on our roster last season. We just threw a max deal, a $30m x 5 deal, and $22m per for guys that didn't do anywhere near that offensive output. I understand that we doubled/tripled/quadrupled down on defense bu...if you want to go on about defense - I guess he'd be making $50m if he was a good defender. He's overpaid, not a good defender but he's REALLY good at what ORL is not. All of these crappy pieces don't add up to one proven, known quantity, young veteran.

Doesn't anyone else get tired of watching such an awful unreliable offense?

*By the way, I didn't include Jett in my proposal- I had Harris. IF Jett's in - that's another frp out, imo.

Good post. I think Simons would be a nice fit in ORL. I know it is commonplace to pick guys apart for their flaws (Simons\defense), but your points are valid and I agree with them. He put up 22 pts/g LY on 38.5% 3pt shooting, on high volume (8.8 att/g).

I also think the fit with ORL is good, (2) bigger PG in Suggs & Black, allow Simons to play his preferred role (SG).

You are also correct on the value of LATE 2nd round picks, of which both of these picks would be. Yes, they have value, but there is a less likely chance that the players chosen with either of those picks would be as an impactful player as Simons is now, who BTW is only 25. What you could reasonably want to protect yourself from (at least with the ORL pick) is something unforseen happening (Banchero shut down for year, team spirals, misses playoffs, then hits lottery luck), so a Top 5 protection seems reasonable on that pick.

I like the thought process of Anthony\GHJ to match salary and then either (2) 25' 1st's or (1) 25' 1st and Howard. Seems fair to me.

I could also see POR throwing another player back in the deal (Reath\Walker) to avoid having to waive a player on their end.

Also, Simons' contract is up after the NEXT season

[JRoy]

Im on board, but how to get him? Cole, Howard, Houstan plus 2 firsts? I would do that.

Portland is starting Simons and bringing Scoot off the bench, I’d imagine this is just to showcase Simons and keep his trade value up. I’d throw them two 1st round draft picks and Jett to see if they’d bite at that. Not giving away AB at all nor would I think they’d need him but perhaps would try to ask for him. Between our own 2024 1st round pick + Denver’s 2024 1st round Draft Pick that would give them 3 2024 1st round picks which are huge in a deep draft like this for themselves or the package to move up picks.

Starting Simons is not just to showcase him. Scoot really sucks.

[Skybox]

Im on board, but how to get him? Cole, Howard, Houstan plus 2 firsts? I would do that.

Portland is starting Simons and bringing Scoot off the bench, I’d imagine this is just to showcase Simons and keep his trade value up. I’d throw them two 1st round draft picks and Jett to see if they’d bite at that. Not giving away AB at all nor would I think they’d need him but perhaps would try to ask for him. Between our own 2024 1st round pick + Denver’s 2024 1st round Draft Pick that would give them 3 2024 1st round picks which are huge in a deep draft like this for themselves or the package to move up picks.

Starting Simons is not just to showcase him. Scoot really sucks.

Send him too

[JRoy]

Portland is starting Simons and bringing Scoot off the bench, I’d imagine this is just to showcase Simons and keep his trade value up. I’d throw them two 1st round draft picks and Jett to see if they’d bite at that. Not giving away AB at all nor would I think they’d need him but perhaps would try to ask for him. Between our own 2024 1st round pick + Denver’s 2024 1st round Draft Pick that would give them 3 2024 1st round picks which are huge in a deep draft like this for themselves or the package to move up picks.

Starting Simons is not just to showcase him. Scoot really sucks.

Send him too

No. He needs more time.

[basketballRob]

Simons is improving his D-EPM this season. The last couple of seasons I believe he was last. This season, he improved to second to last.

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