I'm gonna say it, the ball is moving better

[RichCollab]

I want to see us healthy and have the group play 15 games together.

1. Priority make playoffs
2. Home court advantage
3. Win a series.

I’m ok with the start so far and look forward to us being healthy and building chemistry with the new rotation this year.

KCP starting
Black getting 25 minutes
JI playing in most games for 20+ minutes.

I’m curious if when we are fully healthy does TDS take over the backup SF going forward and getting 15 minutes a game.

[eyriq]

I want to see us healthy and have the group play 15 games together.

1. Priority make playoffs
2. Home court advantage
3. Win a series.

I’m ok with the start so far and look forward to us being healthy and building chemistry with the new rotation this year.

KCP starting
Black getting 25 minutes
JI playing in most games for 20+ minutes.

I’m curious if when we are fully healthy does TDS take over the backup SF going forward and getting 15 minutes a game.

What's your bench unit when fully healthy?

[KillMonger]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

thank you for this, people trying to shake the boat for no reason

[RichCollab]

I want to see us healthy and have the group play 15 games together.

1. Priority make playoffs
2. Home court advantage
3. Win a series.

I’m ok with the start so far and look forward to us being healthy and building chemistry with the new rotation this year.

KCP starting
Black getting 25 minutes
JI playing in most games for 20+ minutes.

I’m curious if when we are fully healthy does TDS take over the backup SF going forward and getting 15 minutes a game.

What's your bench unit when fully healthy?

Suggs/ Black
KCP/ Harris
Franz / TDS
Paolo / JI
WCJ / Moe

9 man rotation Harris 1st out / TDS 2nd out

[dsg2021]

We're a beautiful ball movement team with some good passers. I want that SAS-esque passing offense from their title years. Paolo doesn't detract from that at all, but he does beget over-reliance once in a while.

This is why I said the injury was a blessing in disguise. I was wrong about the record so far, but right about how badly we needed Paolo-less Magic growing.

The one thing I would say is it feels like Franz maybe greases the offense a tiny bit better. Like he creates hockey assists more or something. He's also more of a quiet scorer where you look down at the boxscore and you're like damn, he at 26 point right now?

This is why I never want a ball-dominant PG. This is Franz. And this is Paolo. And when Paolo is back, maybe Franz can point forward possessions a touch more than Paolo as an experiment. Maybe it gives Paolo the energy to score better or rebound like a monster. But key word, "point forward" the possessions. That doesn't quite mean FGA's and usage rate. Paolo is still getting his 30+. And now we're working on Franz getting his 30 more consistently too. We have a real big three!

[The-Stallion70]

The offense is clearly worse without Paolo, this is another bad narrative.

K well I just like disagree then man, it was horrible before he went down.

Do you have the stats to back this up?

Magic ORTG with Paolo: 111.8 (15th)
Magic ORTG without Paolo: 108.1 (25th)

Now the ORTG without Paolo is completely submarined by that absolutely horrific back-to-back in Dallas/OKC.

Since that back-to-back, the ORTG is 113.5 (12th)

But it's also worth pointing out that Franz was sick as a dog for a few of the games he played with Paolo too. So we really only got 2-3 games with a completely healthy Paolo/Franz.

My statement still stands then, the ball appears to be moving better, regardless of ortg.

Does Paolo have some Derozan/Rudy Gay/Cousins to his game?

[The-Stallion70]

We're a beautiful ball movement team with some good passers. I want that SAS-esque passing offense from their title years. Paolo doesn't detract from that at all, but he does beget over-reliance once in a while.

This is why I said the injury was a blessing in disguise. I was wrong about the record so far, but right about how badly we needed Paolo-less Magic growing.

The one thing I would say is it feels like Franz maybe greases the offense a tiny bit better. Like he creates hockey assists more or something. He's also more of a quiet scorer where you look down at the boxscore and you're like damn, he at 26 point right now?

This is why I never want a ball-dominant PG. This is Franz. And this is Paolo. And when Paolo is back, maybe Franz can point forward possessions a touch more than Paolo as an experiment. Maybe it gives Paolo the energy to score better or rebound like a monster. But key word, "point forward" the possessions. That doesn't quite mean FGA's and usage rate. Paolo is still getting his 30+. And now we're working on Franz getting his 30 more consistently too. We have a real big three!

I had this impression as well from the other night.

[The-Stallion70]

The offense is clearly worse without Paolo, this is another bad narrative.

And for the record, your narrative that this is a bad narrative, is a bad narrative.

[Catledge]

This is why I never want a ball-dominant PG. This is Franz. And this is Paolo. And when Paolo is back, maybe Franz can point forward possessions a touch more than Paolo as an experiment. Maybe it gives Paolo the energy to score better or rebound like a monster. But key word, "point forward" the possessions. That doesn't quite mean FGA's and usage rate. Paolo is still getting his 30+. And now we're working on Franz getting his 30 more consistently too. We have a real big three!

Yeah, this is my takeaway also. I was lamenting the absence of a real PG because I didn't know Franz could do what he's done these last few weeks.

Franz's passing as the primary playmaker has been very good. If he keeps this up, then the vision for Suggs at PG makes a lot more sense.

[Instincts]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

Though you use the available stats the available stats are not an apples to apples comparison of offensive rating.

Your Paolo lead offensive stats are based on an offense with both Paolo and Franz. Two of two of teams best offensive players.

Your Franz lead offensive stats are based on an offense with Franz and no Paolo. Only one of two of teams best offensive players.

It is not apples to apples comparison.

And what Stallion was suggesting or should have been suggesting was not a one of Paolo or Franz should be traded, but a discussion of what share of the primary facilitator duties Paolo and Franz lead when the team is at full strength.

Stallion is also picking up intuitively on Franz’s assist to turnover ratio which is quickly trending into impressive territory with 4.5 assists to 1 turnover over the last eight games.

Chris Paul has a career stat of 4.04 assists to 1 turnover.

If Franz can continue this assist / turnover trend the front office will not be able to ignore it. It is simply to efficient.

In the end the team needs two stars to compete for championships, but the exact role Paolo and Franz will play is still in flux and is definitely worthy of a forum topic.

Also on a related topic it will be interested to see future growth in Paolo and Franz playing off of and making each other better. We have seen flashes, but if 1+1 can equal 3, then the sky is the limit.

[jezzerinho]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

Though you use the available stats the available stats are not an apples to apples comparison of offensive rating.

Your Paolo lead offensive stats are based on an offense with both Paolo and Franz. Two of two of teams best offensive players.

Your Franz lead offensive stats are based on an offense with Franz and no Paolo. Only one of two of teams best offensive players.

It is not apples to apples comparison.

And what Stallion was suggesting or should have been suggesting was not a one of Paolo or Franz should be traded, but a discussion of what share of the primary facilitator duties Paolo and Franz lead when the team is at full strength.

Stallion is also picking up intuitively on Franz’s assist to turnover ratio which is quickly trending into impressive territory with 4.5 assists to 1 turnover over the last eight games.

Chris Paul has a career stat of 4.04 assists to 1 turnover.

If Franz can continue this assist / turnover trend the front office will not be able to ignore it. It is simply to efficient.

In the end the team needs two stars to compete for championships, but the exact role Paolo and Franz will play is still in flux and is definitely worthy of a forum topic.

Also on a related topic it will be interested to see future growth in Paolo and Franz playing off of and making each other better. We have seen flashes, but if 1+1 can equal 3, then the sky is the limit.

100% agree.

The style of offense we play when Franz is at the point is more efficient than the style when Paolo is at point. I thinknthat needs to be accounted for when Paolo comes back. Nobody knows for sure what's going to happen. As happy as Paolo surely is for his team and the standings, the competitor in him won't like Franz getting all this adulation too much. His reintroduction will be very interesting, especially if Goga is still the center.

[The-Stallion70]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

Though you use the available stats the available stats are not an apples to apples comparison of offensive rating.

Your Paolo lead offensive stats are based on an offense with both Paolo and Franz. Two of two of teams best offensive players.

Your Franz lead offensive stats are based on an offense with Franz and no Paolo. Only one of two of teams best offensive players.

It is not apples to apples comparison.

And what Stallion was suggesting or should have been suggesting was not a one of Paolo or Franz should be traded, but a discussion of what share of the primary facilitator duties Paolo and Franz lead when the team is at full strength.

Stallion is also picking up intuitively on Franz’s assist to turnover ratio which is quickly trending into impressive territory with 4.5 assists to 1 turnover over the last eight games.

Chris Paul has a career stat of 4.04 assists to 1 turnover.

If Franz can continue this assist / turnover trend the front office will not be able to ignore it. It is simply to efficient.

In the end the team needs two stars to compete for championships, but the exact role Paolo and Franz will play is still in flux and is definitely worthy of a forum topic.

Also on a related topic it will be interested to see future growth in Paolo and Franz playing off of and making each other better. We have seen flashes, but if 1+1 can equal 3, then the sky is the limit.

I did not suggest this because this is often way way WAY easier said than done. If it was easier to get a ball dominant iso player to play more within a team ball movement system then Derozan and Rudy Gay's careers may have gone differently. It may have also been easier to reintegrate Carmelo into the Knicks in 2012 when he was out during Linsanity.

A real question to ask is whether Franz and Goga are simply durable enough as players to play in their increased roles over the course of entire seasons and also whether this style can carry over into the playoffs.

I think that Goga has earned the starting job when Wendell comes back because he just seems to play off of his teammates better.

He is a better finisher around the basket, more comfortable in his role and doesn't try to take bad shots at random times out of some mistaken urge to prove his draft position like Wendell.

[drsd]

I'm gonna say it, the ball is moving better

.... accept when Anthony has the ball. He is pressing so much now; incapable of passing.

[KillMonger]

K well I just like disagree then man, it was horrible before he went down.

Do you have the stats to back this up?

Magic ORTG with Paolo: 111.8 (15th)
Magic ORTG without Paolo: 108.1 (25th)

Now the ORTG without Paolo is completely submarined by that absolutely horrific back-to-back in Dallas/OKC.

Since that back-to-back, the ORTG is 113.5 (12th)

But it's also worth pointing out that Franz was sick as a dog for a few of the games he played with Paolo too. So we really only got 2-3 games with a completely healthy Paolo/Franz.

My statement still stands then, the ball appears to be moving better, regardless of ortg.

Does Paolo have some Derozan/Rudy Gay/Cousins to his game?

No.....he does not

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[ogmagicfan]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

Thank you for providing numbers to support that this is a farce.

Why I think posters are saying this is theyre comparing the offense last season to this season with Franz, and not the games that Paolo played this season which showed improved ball movement in comparison to last season

[The-Stallion70]

It really isn't much different, other than the player roles. Yes, Paolo Banchero would get the majority of the passes going to him when he was playing. But, it's obvious why. He's the best player on the offense for the Magic. Now, that level of passes to is going to Franz Wagner. In October - granted a smaller sample size of games - the passing stats actually look narrowly better than November. Again, it's important to point out the larger sample size in November without Paolo (15 games). The law of large numbers could be attributed to a slightly smaller average of passes. You know what's really interesting to me? That the Magic take more 2-pointers than 3-pointers with Paolo out of the lineup this year. That typically correlates with lower efficiency on offense. I pulled some stats from NBA and put totals down at the bottom to show my point. My main takeaways:

- The Magic shoot less 3-point shots and at a worse percentage (-6%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic shoot more 2-point shots at a better percentage (+2.26%) with Paolo out of the lineup.
- The Magic pass a bit more per game with Paolo in the lineup, but it's a relatively negligible amount.
- The Magic have an assist rate that is basically 1:1 with or without Paolo in the lineup.

Please excuse my messy formatting, I didn't have too much time to pretty this up for a reply. I did feel the need to show actual statistics because I think you're - possibly unintentionally - creating a false narrative. If you can provide any sort of statistical analysis, I'd love to hear it. Your perception and "I just like disagree" position isn't a position at all.

Read on Twitter

NBA Stat source #1: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=1
NBA Stat source #2: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612753/passes-dash?Month=2

These numbers give some context but I still think most of you are missing the point. My statement was remarking on the 'quality' of ball movement but the only number here that seems kind of relevant is the number of passes made per game.

My point is that a pass made to an open Goga Bitadze as he's ready to power dribble into a dunk will look the same according on these stats as does a pass to Wendell Carter as he forces a contested shot. One play involves properly reading the defense and the other doesn't, if we are simply counting passes.

The team appears more in sync, reading off of each other better and reacting to what the defense gives them more rather than relying on Paolo to make a difficult shot. We don't have Paolo as the "crutch" so to speak.

[Rainwater]

With fewer Paolo isos and more quick decisions made from Franz/ballhandlers up top. The team visibly appears more in sync when the lead dog gets his points more within the natural flow of an offense rather than isolation.

The Magic have one of the worst offenses in the league. Bottom 5 in ppg and offensive rating. Have Paolo would kinda help, lol.

[Blue_and_Whte]

The statistical evidence is great, but I could've told you this is wrong using the eyeball test.

[The-Stallion70]

The statistical evidence is great, but I could've told you this is wrong using the eyeball test.

Watch more games then

[JoshuaPotter]

I would like to also suggest that due to injury and lack of playmaking from Paolo being absent that we have AB with the ball more.

Observe @ 2:12 & @7:47

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