Why does ORL turn it over SOOOOO much?

[RookieStar]

1.) We don't have a true PG in our SL
2.) Our PG of the future always picks his dribble up
3.) Cole Anthony

[drsd]

Coach Banchero was caught on a hot-mic on this issue during the Miami game. WHat he noticed, and told the magic players. was that the passes were being projected. Coach Banchero was recommending to not look at the player you intend to pass to, and to have some pump-fake passes to through the defense off-guard. That he is taking this in as a spectator should help his own game when he gets back on the court.

A p.s. on this: Coach F-Wagner is frequently giving in-game teaching lessons to da Silva.

[GelbeWand09]

Like most say, no ballhandling. When you're best ballhandler are 2 6'10 guys who aren't even elite ballhandler, just pretty good for their position, you have a big problem. Even more when the PO come and both 6'10 bigs have to navigate against tight halfcourt defenses all game when the tean doesn't force turnovers to run. How this looks we've seen in the games in Cleveland last year (Paolo 16 TO%, Suggs 17.4% which is really really bad, Franz only 7% but he couldn't even drive through this tight defenses to turn the ball over), or all games against good defense teams in the regular season the last 2 years. Reason I don't believe this will ever work without a real PG.

[Anti Chalmers]

We do not have an elite ball handler or true pg.

[Skybox]

I think dribbling without excessive turnovers might even surpass horrendous team 3pt shooting as a fundamental weakness. We have multiple guys that have displayed good shooting at points in their careers…they’re just missing for some reason. I have a hard time accepting that vet players just forget how to shoot.

[I Rasharted]

[anothermagicfan]

Too many simple answers being thrown out here. It takes a lot of practice with your teammates to know who's going to be where on the floor in what situation.

Paolo has only played in 5 games this year so the 2-6'10 forwards is a lazy answer.

Paolo and Franz both out for significant number of games. Now add in Moe gone for the year. That's a lot of scoring and usage not on the floor.

It seems like turnovers are really up since Franz went down. Playing without your 2 best/highest scoring players and then losing the most consistent bench player too on top of that. All of a sudden your looking for any way possible to score. Suggs is doing just fine. It's not like he can hand it off to anyone.

Turnovers are a symptom. They are not the problem. I mean they are a problem.

Like is bleeding the problem or is it the stab wound that's the problem. Once the stab wound heals the turnovers will go back down.

[T-Cat]

The easiest answer is no point guard but I think it goes deeper than that.

- poor spacing
- no real offense being ran
- no shooting threat
- not enough player movement without the ball

The main goal of the offense at times is ISO ball and creating driving to the basket. THAT DOES NOT work when your team is shooting so horribly. Defenses can cheat and pack the paint or double, triple, quadruple Paolo and Franz.

The real question is whether coach Mosley will get a consistent offense to go with our elite defense?

[T-Cat]

1.) We don't have a true PG in our SL
2.) Our PG of the future always picks his dribble up
3.) Cole Anthony

people always blame Cole Anthony

[VFX]

Paolo has only played in 5 games this year so the 2-6'10 forwards is a lazy answer.

Paolo and Franz both out for significant number of games. Now add in Moe gone for the year. That's a lot of scoring and usage not on the floor.

It seems like turnovers are really up since Franz went down. Playing without your 2 best/highest scoring players and then losing the most consistent bench player too on top of that. All of a sudden your looking for any way possible to score. Suggs is doing just fine. It's not like he can hand it off to anyone.

Turnovers are a symptom. They are not the problem. I mean they are a problem.

Like is bleeding the problem or is it the stab wound that's the problem. Once the stab wound heals the turnovers will go back down.

I find it SO goddamn funny a handful of posters here have bought into this narrative. Mostly because it’s something the FO will undoubtedly parrot when the season ends with no moves this offseason.

You have to completely disregard the entire 2023-24 season to actually believe this is not a valid concern. That’s the only way the narrative of “Paolo 5 games this season” works as a response.

Orlando was a bottom 10 team in turnovers last year (24th) with the healthiest season in forever. Does that not mean anything?

Now, if you want to say turnovers will be better with Paolo/Franz returning, then fine. But don’t pretend not having a real point guard on the team wouldn’t help solve the problem entirely. You are pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

[Skybox]

Paolo has only played in 5 games this year so the 2-6'10 forwards is a lazy answer.

Paolo and Franz both out for significant number of games. Now add in Moe gone for the year. That's a lot of scoring and usage not on the floor.

It seems like turnovers are really up since Franz went down. Playing without your 2 best/highest scoring players and then losing the most consistent bench player too on top of that. All of a sudden your looking for any way possible to score. Suggs is doing just fine. It's not like he can hand it off to anyone.

Turnovers are a symptom. They are not the problem. I mean they are a problem.

Like is bleeding the problem or is it the stab wound that's the problem. Once the stab wound heals the turnovers will go back down.

I find it SO goddamn funny a handful of posters here have bought into this narrative. Mostly because it’s something the FO will undoubtedly parrot when the season ends with no moves this offseason.

You have to completely disregard the entire 2023-24 season to actually believe this is not a valid concern. That’s the only way the narrative of “Paolo 5 games this season” works as a response.

Orlando was a bottom 10 team in turnovers last year (24th) with the healthiest season in forever. Does that not mean anything?

Now, if you want to say turnovers will be better with Paolo/Franz returning, then fine. But don’t pretend not having a real point guard on the team wouldn’t help solve the problem entirely. You are pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

Turnovers are a symptom of players that aren't good ball handlers/lack court vision/PG instincts....Being 6'10 only enhances the difficulty.

[RookieStar]

1.) We don't have a true PG in our SL
2.) Our PG of the future always picks his dribble up
3.) Cole Anthony

people always blame Cole Anthony

well I mean... most people do have eyes....

[basketballRob]

We were 19-15 last season.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Redphilly]

Why is Anthony not playing?

[JoshuaPotter]

Why all the turnovers?

Anyone?

Are you ok Skybox?

[Skybox]

Why all the turnovers?

Anyone?

Are you ok Skybox?

huh?

Legit question... I truly don't know if it's as simple as a lack of ballhandlers or offensive scheme or roster turnover/chemistry or what?

You all know I have strong opinions - but I'm always open-minded about having my mind changed with new information...but watching the games - it just looks like inept ball handling and sometimes lazy, sometimes bad decision-making when it comes to passes being picked. I think it's personnel more than systemic.

But I like to ask what others see because sometimes the answers aren't obvious...kind of like, why does a guy who shoots 40% from 3 for a decade, suddenly not shoot 35% from 3? especially if the eye test confirms that they are not looking like forced or bad shots...how does a whole team full of previously ok shooters, on an individual basis, combine to be the worst group in the NBA? Before I jump in and say "add shooters like Cam or Kennard-we don't have any", I've got to wonder WTF went wrong with our existing guys. An easy answer is to blame the lack of P&F's gravity...but I'm seeing a LOT of open shots being missed, not necessarily contested.

[JoshuaPotter]

Why all the turnovers?

Anyone?

Are you ok Skybox?

huh?

Legit question... I truly don't know if it's as simple as a lack of ballhandlers or offensive scheme or roster turnover/chemistry or what?

You all know I have strong opinions - but I'm always open-minded about having my mind changed with new information...but watching the games - it just looks like inept ball handling and sometimes lazy, sometimes bad decision-making when it comes to passes being picked. I think it's personnel more than systemic.

But I like to ask what others see because sometimes the answers aren't obvious...kind of like, why does a guy who shoots 40% from 3 for a decade, suddenly not shoot 35% from 3? especially if the eye test confirms that they are not looking like forced or bad shots...how does a whole team full of previously ok shooters, on an individual basis, combine to be the worst group in the NBA? Before I jump in and say "add shooters like Cam or Kennard-we don't have any", I've got to wonder WTF went wrong with our existing guys. An easy answer is to blame the lack of P&F's gravity...but I'm seeing a LOT of open shots being missed, not necessarily contested.

OK, I get you. I don't like using a word like "systemic" because I don't think that explains it properly. I do like using the phrase "we are in the exact position that I think the coach + management thinks we would be based on the roster and now the injury list."

I could go on and on about Mose absolute dunce cap level of offensive creativity, management ignoring the PG spot for 13 years, our backcourt PG age, the fact that Black is the closest we have to an legit NBA PG, to how P+F was supposed to by the point forward of the future, to how Mose for being an offensive dunce is a defensive and psychological mastermind, how we play an intense defensive game that I think is more physically demanding then teams are conditioned for, to experimental lineups, to Mose mentality for not sticking with a player whose name does not start with Paulo, Franz or Suggs.

In other words, there is no simple answer. I kinda think the shortest answer is that minus the injury this is unfortunately by design. I think somewhere in Paulo + Franz 5-7 year we were probably thinking we add our Derrick White then and make a title run if we hadn't already. As things stand now though. I think that sums it up nicely.

[anothermagicfan]

Paolo has only played in 5 games this year so the 2-6'10 forwards is a lazy answer.

Paolo and Franz both out for significant number of games. Now add in Moe gone for the year. That's a lot of scoring and usage not on the floor.

It seems like turnovers are really up since Franz went down. Playing without your 2 best/highest scoring players and then losing the most consistent bench player too on top of that. All of a sudden your looking for any way possible to score. Suggs is doing just fine. It's not like he can hand it off to anyone.

Turnovers are a symptom. They are not the problem. I mean they are a problem.

Like is bleeding the problem or is it the stab wound that's the problem. Once the stab wound heals the turnovers will go back down.

I find it SO goddamn funny a handful of posters here have bought into this narrative. Mostly because it’s something the FO will undoubtedly parrot when the season ends with no moves this offseason.

You have to completely disregard the entire 2023-24 season to actually believe this is not a valid concern. That’s the only way the narrative of “Paolo 5 games this season” works as a response.

Orlando was a bottom 10 team in turnovers last year (24th) with the healthiest season in forever. Does that not mean anything?

Now, if you want to say turnovers will be better with Paolo/Franz returning, then fine. But don’t pretend not having a real point guard on the team wouldn’t help solve the problem entirely. You are pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

In no way am I saying that this team is great at taking over the ball and consistently is top of the league with fewest turnovers. The lack of ball handling/point guard/lack of an offensive initiator or whatever was rambled on about all offseason isn't what this thread is about. It's simply about an uptick in turnovers and really bad passes and decision making. I'm not getting into a debate with you about the lack of a true point guard on this team. I will say Paolo and Franz have both stepped up in the assist category and actually look better than I thought they would-albeit really small sample size from Paolo.

My main point originally is that the recent influx of turnovers is due to all the different players playing recently. Trevelin Queen, Jett, TDS, Cole all getting lots of minutes of recently. Theres some youth and inexperience there but for me it comes down to unfamiliarity with the rest of the roster. couple that with basically a skeleton crew of usage players.

If I was pissing on your leg, I'd tell you I was pissing on your leg and if it was raining, I'd tell you it's raining, and you would respond to both observations that it's all managements fault that we don't have a true point guard. we've heard it all before from you day after day of coming in here just to piss in everyone's cheerios about how terrible this team is and here we sit only about 8 games from the halfway point in the season with our best player missing most of the games so far and now our second best player out for an extended period of time and were only like the 8th best team in the league according to the win/loss column.

[VFX]

Paolo has only played in 5 games this year so the 2-6'10 forwards is a lazy answer.

Paolo and Franz both out for significant number of games. Now add in Moe gone for the year. That's a lot of scoring and usage not on the floor.

It seems like turnovers are really up since Franz went down. Playing without your 2 best/highest scoring players and then losing the most consistent bench player too on top of that. All of a sudden your looking for any way possible to score. Suggs is doing just fine. It's not like he can hand it off to anyone.

Turnovers are a symptom. They are not the problem. I mean they are a problem.

Like is bleeding the problem or is it the stab wound that's the problem. Once the stab wound heals the turnovers will go back down.

I find it SO goddamn funny a handful of posters here have bought into this narrative. Mostly because it’s something the FO will undoubtedly parrot when the season ends with no moves this offseason.

You have to completely disregard the entire 2023-24 season to actually believe this is not a valid concern. That’s the only way the narrative of “Paolo 5 games this season” works as a response.

Orlando was a bottom 10 team in turnovers last year (24th) with the healthiest season in forever. Does that not mean anything?

Now, if you want to say turnovers will be better with Paolo/Franz returning, then fine. But don’t pretend not having a real point guard on the team wouldn’t help solve the problem entirely. You are pissing on my leg and telling me it’s raining.

In no way am I saying that this team is great at taking over the ball and consistently is top of the league with fewest turnovers. The lack of ball handling/point guard/lack of an offensive initiator or whatever was rambled on about all offseason isn't what this thread is about. It's simply about an uptick in turnovers and really bad passes and decision making. I'm not getting into a debate with you about the lack of a true point guard on this team. I will say Paolo and Franz have both stepped up in the assist category and actually look better than I thought they would-albeit really small sample size from Paolo.

My main point originally is that the recent influx of turnovers is due to all the different players playing recently. Trevelin Queen, Jett, TDS, Cole all getting lots of minutes of recently. Theres some youth and inexperience there but for me it comes down to unfamiliarity with the rest of the roster. couple that with basically a skeleton crew of usage players.

If I was pissing on your leg, I'd tell you I was pissing on your leg and if it was raining, I'd tell you it's raining, and you would respond to both observations that it's all managements fault that we don't have a true point guard. we've heard it all before from you day after day of coming in here just to piss in everyone's cheerios about how terrible this team is and here we sit only about 8 games from the halfway point in the season with our best player missing most of the games so far and now our second best player out for an extended period of time and were only like the 8th best team in the league according to the win/loss column.

The main point is that having a legitimate point guard would limit the turnovers.

Thats not being pessimistic. That's just reality.

I can buy someone telling me that it will get better with development, or that they will find an answer whether that be AB or someone else. However, this constant need to justify the FO by running cover for obvious roster flaws is silly.

Paolo and Franz being out is both the cause and the point of the absence of glaringly obvious skillsets. Yes, they make the team run infinitely better. No, it doesn't forgive the need to have that skillset elsewhere on the roster. You can believe both things simultaneously without need to point out a fraction of the reason as to why its even in question.

I'll be the first to admit this team has surpassed expectations this season winning games against teams they should have no business winning on paper without Franz and Paolo. Does that invalidate the question at hand though?

The answer to the OP's question is obvious for this reason. It's not a multiple choice answer.

[SOUL]

The answer to the OP's question is obvious for this reason. It's not a multiple choice answer.

I think everybody knows this, but they are (correctly) evaluating that we are not winning a chip this year and prioritizing development from our stars and trying to get minutes for our young guys still, to either have a cheap option moving forward to keep, or find out of they may be able to net us a really good player.

Spurs did this with Sochan at point. It wasn't pretty or successful, but if it made him even 10% more comfortable on ball, you take it. They didn't give Wemby any options last year to help him out and gave him CP3 this year. He's still taking a bunch of threes and he often talks about their development plan for him and how it's an evolving process. Raptors are doing it with Barnes and it's an ugly up and down process. These are teams that are losing doing this, and we were winning even with a lot of new responsibilities for our guys.

Franz is easily a better processor now by having all of that experience of on-ball pressure from college/rookie year until now. Paolo's first 5 games, he looked way more comfortable out there surveying the court and keeping his turnovers lower. These are not insignificant strides for our two best players.

AB is getting more minutes in general from not being blocked by anyone else.

It's not wrong to point out or THINK they shouldn't be doing any of this, that's your prerogative and your opinion, I just think it's extremely results-based before anything else.

Now, if their intention from it is because they think it's the best option, so they will NEVER get any sort of competent lead guard, even in the midst of contending, that's a bridge we'll cross when we get there. It's certainly a question because of how they've operated.