Why isn't this board more critical of Anthony Black?

[The-Stallion70]

10-15 years down the road I’m afraid we will look back on the 2023 draft and realize just how wrong they got it

There was never going to be a starting postion for these two picks, keeping either was a poor move in my opinion, and keeping both was bad managment.

and how big of an opportunity it really was to put two lottery picks next to Paolo and Franz.

I just don't agree with this. When the Magic drafted, Orlando needed a starting SG. There were loads of trade-availanle starting guards for the 6 and 11.]

My point: 6 and 11 are not draft slots to fill up a bench roster. But that is what Orlando decided to do.

How do you know this? Were you yourself working the phones? We don't necessarily know everything that was or wasn't discussed and I don't necessarily agree when you keep making this argument that teams keep constant, fluid continuous trade discussions with each other. Team gms don't have put that much time or effort into just trades there is alot more they have to do.

[Idiosyncratic]

Looking at the Basketball Reference draft summary page you can see total, shooting, per game, and advanced stats for everyone in that draft. I think if you ranked that draft by those stats you could end up with a top 20 that looks like this:

1: Victor Wembanyama
2: Amen Thompson
3: Dereck Lively II
4: Brandon Miller
5: Brandin Podziemski
6: Jaime Jaquez Jr.
7: Trayce Jackson-Davis
8: Keyonte George
9: Cason Wallace
10: Scoot Henderson
11: Toumani Camara
12: Bilal Coulibaly
13: Ausar Thompson
14: Marcus Sasser
15: Gradey Dick
16: Anthony Black
17: Cam Whitmore
18: GG Jackson II
19: Jalen Wilson
20: Kris Murray

So could you critique Anthony Black? Sure. He's only 16th in a ranking by overall productivity. Amen, Keyonte, Cason, Scoot, Ausar, and even Sasser have all been more productive.

What has held AB back? He's young, as a rookie he was placed in a narrow and specialized role, and as a sophomore he's playing off the bench.

This analysis doesn't capture his defensive contributions, which more than compensates for his lack in productivity IMO.

I don't critique him because I think that most of the board is against him, either because they loved Fultz and saw AB as a threat or hated Fultz and saw AB as a clone.

And in a list of who you would want for the next several years AB is much higher.

Wemby, Amen, Miller clearly ahead.

Whitmore probably ahead. Lively is good, but rim running bigs usually aren't the hardest to find, but we can say he's ahead.

I'd have AB in the 6-12 range with Keyonte, Scoot, Bilal and Cason maybe Ausar. I think I personally like him the most out of that bunch.

[eyriq]

And in a list of who you would want for the next several years AB is much higher.

Wemby, Amen, Miller clearly ahead.

Whitmore probably ahead. Lively is good, but rim running bigs usually aren't the hardest to find, but we can say he's ahead.

I'd have AB in the 6-12 range with Keyonte, Scoot Bilal and Cason maybe Ausar. I think I personally like him the most out of that bunch.

I'm right there with you. He's underperforming the 6th pick if you look narrowly at "what have you done for me lately". If you project forward his combination of positional size, defense, playmaking, and offensive upside places him right back in the range he was selected.

I'm hoping he makes the rising stars game.

[RichCollab]

AB will be fine.

[Idiosyncratic]

And in a list of who you would want for the next several years AB is much higher.

Wemby, Amen, Miller clearly ahead.

Whitmore probably ahead. Lively is good, but rim running bigs usually aren't the hardest to find, but we can say he's ahead.

I'd have AB in the 6-12 range with Keyonte, Scoot Bilal and Cason maybe Ausar. I think I personally like him the most out of that bunch.

I'm right there with you. He's underperforming the 6th pick if you look narrowly at "what have you done for me lately". If you project forward his combination of positional size, defense, playmaking, and offensive upside places him right back in the range he was selected.

I'm hoping he makes the rising stars game.

The free throw rate and improvement on making free throws this year is a big floor raiser for me.

He just has to be able to knock down wide-open kick out 3s at a decent rate when he's playing with Paolo and Franz and he's going to be more than fine.

[basketballRob]

Looking at the Basketball Reference draft summary page you can see total, shooting, per game, and advanced stats for everyone in that draft. I think if you ranked that draft by those stats you could end up with a top 20 that looks like this:

1: Victor Wembanyama
2: Amen Thompson
3: Dereck Lively II
4: Brandon Miller
5: Brandin Podziemski
6: Jaime Jaquez Jr.
7: Trayce Jackson-Davis
8: Keyonte George
9: Cason Wallace
10: Scoot Henderson
11: Toumani Camara
12: Bilal Coulibaly
13: Ausar Thompson
14: Marcus Sasser
15: Gradey Dick
16: Anthony Black
17: Cam Whitmore
18: GG Jackson II
19: Jalen Wilson
20: Kris Murray

So could you critique Anthony Black? Sure. He's only 16th in a ranking by overall productivity. Amen, Keyonte, Cason, Scoot, Ausar, and even Sasser have all been more productive.

What has held AB back? He's young, as a rookie he was placed in a narrow and specialized role, and as a sophomore he's playing off the bench.

This analysis doesn't capture his defensive contributions, which more than compensates for his lack in productivity IMO.

I don't critique him because I think that most of the board is against him, either because they loved Fultz and saw AB as a threat or hated Fultz and saw AB as a clone.

Only 3 players ahead of Black on that list are younger than him. Some are 1-3 years older. We need to look at the list after 3-4 years.

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[Blue_and_Whte]

In an ideal world AB is starting next to Suggs in the back court in a year or two.

Unfortunately I just don’t think he’s that good of a player from what I’ve seen. Just not impactful enough yet.

Hes a very good defender that can make plays in transition and make good reads sometimes. That’s it. He loses positional size advantage playing anywhere except point guard. The problem is that he’s just not a distributor or scorer on league level required for starters.

It’s just extremely difficult to justify AB in a starting lineup next to Suggs if he isn’t absolutely killing it from spot up 3’s or racking up a lot of assists. He really doesn’t do either of those things super proficiently.

I don’t really care what people say.. where you are drafted matters. Why? Because there are expectations in a world where everyone gets a trophy. Thats the pecking order when comparing the value of prospects.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, he is just turning 21 and maybe he hits some extra gear next season. He has to take a massive jump in 3pt volume and % OR become a difference maker on offense setting guys up. You can’t be a starting point guard in the league without doing either of those things and rely on being a very good defender with length. Thats a bench player.

That’s MCW…

[GameOver25]

He's seems like the type of kid who lets failure really get to him and is too hard on himself. Hopefully he grows out of it.

[CarraT]

In an ideal world AB is starting next to Suggs in the back court in a year or two.

Unfortunately I just don’t think he’s that good of a player from what I’ve seen. Just not impactful enough yet.

Hes a very good defender that can make plays in transition and make good reads sometimes. That’s it. He loses positional size advantage playing anywhere except point guard. The problem is that he’s just not a distributor or scorer on league level required for starters.

It’s just extremely difficult to justify AB in a starting lineup next to Suggs if he isn’t absolutely killing it from spot up 3’s or racking up a lot of assists. He really doesn’t do either of those things super proficiently.

I don’t really care what people say.. where you are drafted matters. Why? Because there are expectations in a world where everyone gets a trophy. Thats the pecking order when comparing the value of prospects.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, he is just turning 21 and maybe he hits some extra gear next season. He has to take a massive jump in 3pt volume and % OR become a difference maker on offense setting guys up. You can’t be a starting point guard in the league without doing either of those things and rely on being a very good defender with length. Thats a bench player.

That’s MCW…

Been saying that for a year now.

[JF5]

And in a list of who you would want for the next several years AB is much higher.

Wemby, Amen, Miller clearly ahead.

Whitmore probably ahead. Lively is good, but rim running bigs usually aren't the hardest to find, but we can say he's ahead.

I'd have AB in the 6-12 range with Keyonte, Scoot Bilal and Cason maybe Ausar. I think I personally like him the most out of that bunch.

I'm right there with you. He's underperforming the 6th pick if you look narrowly at "what have you done for me lately". If you project forward his combination of positional size, defense, playmaking, and offensive upside places him right back in the range he was selected.

I'm hoping he makes the rising stars game.

The free throw rate and improvement on making free throws this year is a big floor raiser for me.

He just has to be able to knock down wide-open kick out 3s at a decent rate when he's playing with Paolo and Franz and he's going to be more than fine.

How does FT rate matter if he's so terrible at everything else? You don't put the ball in a guy's hands if he's a complete negative on offense.

[basketballRob]

In an ideal world AB is starting next to Suggs in the back court in a year or two.

Unfortunately I just don’t think he’s that good of a player from what I’ve seen. Just not impactful enough yet.

Hes a very good defender that can make plays in transition and make good reads sometimes. That’s it. He loses positional size advantage playing anywhere except point guard. The problem is that he’s just not a distributor or scorer on league level required for starters.

It’s just extremely difficult to justify AB in a starting lineup next to Suggs if he isn’t absolutely killing it from spot up 3’s or racking up a lot of assists. He really doesn’t do either of those things super proficiently.

I don’t really care what people say.. where you are drafted matters. Why? Because there are expectations in a world where everyone gets a trophy. Thats the pecking order when comparing the value of prospects.

ALL OF THAT BEING SAID, he is just turning 21 and maybe he hits some extra gear next season. He has to take a massive jump in 3pt volume and % OR become a difference maker on offense setting guys up. You can’t be a starting point guard in the league without doing either of those things and rely on being a very good defender with length. Thats a bench player.

That’s MCW…

Been saying that for a year now.

And you're both wrong.

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[Idiosyncratic]

I'm right there with you. He's underperforming the 6th pick if you look narrowly at "what have you done for me lately". If you project forward his combination of positional size, defense, playmaking, and offensive upside places him right back in the range he was selected.

I'm hoping he makes the rising stars game.

The free throw rate and improvement on making free throws this year is a big floor raiser for me.

He just has to be able to knock down wide-open kick out 3s at a decent rate when he's playing with Paolo and Franz and he's going to be more than fine.

How does FT rate matter if he's so terrible at everything else? You don't put the ball in a guy's hands if he's a complete negative on offense.

Because it's one of the best ways to score the ball? It's a good skill to build on.

If he doesn't improve he is a bench defensive specialist for his entire career. The idea is that maybe he can improve like some young players do. I don't really care what he is now, I just want him to play. If he's the same guy by the end of next year after getting ample oppurtunity then let's talk about getting to the free throw line being meaningless.

[drsd]

My view: I am fine that the Magic drafted Black. But in no-gosh-darn-way-in-heck should the Magic have kept the 11.

[Idiosyncratic]

My view: I am fine that the Magic drafted Black. But in no-gosh-darn-way-in-heck should the Magic have kept the 11.

Or they could have just made an obvious pick in Lively. I would probably take 8 years of Lively or even Dick over whatever trade was there. Dick is shooting the ball exactly the same as Simons this year with better defense for 5 million bucks.

That's not even hindsight because those are the two guys most anyone would have picked. Some wanted Keyonte, I'll probably take him as well.

Jett had like a 2nd round grade on him, that always just made no sense. Jett pick isn't even worth discussing at this point, it just made no sense. I still hope he can turn into at least an NBA player, but it is what it is.

[Orlando Dawg]

It is what it is. It doesn’t become criminal until they give him a Fultz extension.

[RookieStar]

To be serious, I will be critical of him only after there isn't clear improvements AFTER his 3rd season.

People here are spoiled because of what Franz and Paolo gave us. Clear high expectations in their 1st year and Massive improvements in their 2nd right away. Their 3rd year was already nearing all-star/face of the team performances.

Then you guys remember Suggs. I was always rooting for him even though it seems like his first 2 years he forgot to shoot or even look like a NBA player. However, 3rd year it just clicked...

[basketballRob]

To be serious, I will be critical of him only after there isn't clear improvements AFTER his 3rd season.

People here are spoiled because of what Franz and Paolo gave us. Clear high expectations in their 1st year and Massive improvements in their 2nd right away. Their 3rd year was already nearing all-star/face of the team performances.

Then you guys remember Suggs. I was always rooting for him even though it seems like his first 2 years he forgot to shoot or even look like a NBA player. However, 3rd year it just clicked...

Black is only around 5 months older than Suggs was his rookie season. I'm hoping Black can have a little success in the playoffs this season, and that carries over next season. Year 3 was when Suggs and Cole both made jumps.

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[KillMonger]

My view: I am fine that the Magic drafted Black. But in no-gosh-darn-way-in-heck should the Magic have kept the 11.

Do you not know weltman by now?

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[drsd]

My view: I am fine that the Magic drafted Black. But in no-gosh-darn-way-in-heck should the Magic have kept the 11.

Or they could have just made an obvious pick in Lively. I would probably take 8 years of Lively or even Dick over whatever trade was there. Dick is shooting the ball exactly the same as Simons this year with better defense for 5 million bucks.

That's not even hindsight because those are the two guys most anyone would have picked. Some wanted Keyonte, I'll probably take him as well.

Jett had like a 2nd round grade on him, that always just made no sense. Jett pick isn't even worth discussing at this point, it just made no sense. I still hope he can turn into at least an NBA player, but it is what it is.

There is no way the Magic should have taken Howard at 11, given the players on the board. My point is that the Magic should not, under any circumstance, have kept this pick. There was no reason for Orlando to have tow rookies on the roster in 2024.

[I Rasharted]

Still high on Black. Me likey recent foul-drawing.