What about the Center Spot?

[Skybox]

I'm not a WCJ fan. Not at all, really. But I don't deny that he has played good stretches of basketball in his career. I'm willing to consider the possibility that he's fine as our starting center, and that he will look better if we become more offensively competent as a team. I mean, that's typically a pretty simple reality for role players. They look good on good teams and bad on bad teams. We're not a bad team necessarily, but we're so bad on one side of the ball that it's nearly impossible for our role players to look good on offense.

Short version: I don't like him but I prioritize improving guard play and I'm willing to give him a chance within the framework of a more competent offensive team.

yeah...I fall for it too. He looked great last week. Don't let him fool you. ORL's biggest failing is clinging to mediocre players who have flashes of greatness. Learn. He's unreliable in health and effort. He's NOT a floor spreader. He's NOT a dominant rebounder. He's just not a solid starting C on a consistent basis.

We could do a lot worse...but we could certainly do better. To be fair, I don't think this team is the best fit for him either. He's (potentially) versatile and I believe we need simple, brutal, reliable...rebounding, picks, blocks, lobs - a bigger body. Anything beyond that would be gravy, imo

Whatever happened to the 10+ rebound guys? I really don't want to hear about Cole's excellent rebounding - Dwight would have inadvertently killed him like a mosquito if he got too close

[Skybox]

I saw some Mavs fans pitching Gafford for Cole and the 25th pick.

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They are insane...but, then again, so is their GM

[VFX]

You'll all get Wendell Carter Jr. and like it!

Wendell Carter for 6-8 more years I say.

I like my Centers to average less than 7 rebounds a game and less than a block.

[Skybox]

I like Bobby Portis as a backup.

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He's so versatile but still big and tough enough to give some minutes at C. He could replace 2 of our bigs.

[Skybox]

You'll all get Wendell Carter Jr. and like it!

Wendell Carter for 6-8 more years I say.

I like my Centers to average less than 7 rebounds a game and less than a block.

the key metric for Centers is ...pump fakes at the top of the key

[eyriq]

Trade WCJ for a starting scoring guard, start Goga, draft Wolf, give backup minutes to JI.

[anothermagicfan]

WCJ has some impressive games here and there, just like Cole. More often than not isn't that good. Doesn't protect the rim. Doesn't control the boards. The stupid pump fake and hold onto the ball trying to decide who to pass it to up on top of the arc just stagnates the ball movement and allows defenses to recover. He kills the offense and his defense is not what we need as a starting center. He is very good as a center switching to smaller players and he's also very good at missing 20 games a year. If he did all of this at 10 mil per as a backup I'd love him for this team. As a starter for almost 20 mil per is a weakness for the magic.

[T-Cat]

Free Agent Centers that MAY be of interest...SnT, MLE (or part of it, assuming we can get there with other cost-saving moves)...
*just listing guys...some may be way out of reach. Some would start, some might not get a minute if we're healthy

Steven Adams still one of the elite offensive rebounders and best pick setters EVER...great dude too. HOU would be foolish to let him get away
Clint Capela
Marvin Bagley (maybe not a real C, but perhaps a guy that could also burn minutes at PF, on a very low deal)
Andre Drummond one of the great rebounders of all time
Mason Plumlee had some really good seasons, very solid passer
DeAndre Jordan huge and (formerly?) athletic...anything left in the tank?
Luke Kornet almost 30, probably very happy in BOS, doing his thing, collecting rings
Santi Aldama very interesting, overlooked in MEM?, shoots 3's but can he do big man stuff defensively?
Jaxson Hayes catches lobs high above the rim...I think that's all he does well
Mo Bamba no, I'm serious, obviously a deep dive, vet min...but he can shoot 3's and, when active, he's an elite shot deterrent around the rim, weak

Guys that might be available via trade that MAY be of interest...
Mitchell Robinson really good, really big defender & rebounder...just too much of a chronic injury risk for me
Porzingis also a constant injury watch, but man is he good. BOS loves him, but could be a cap casualty for a less expensive, lesser player
Robert Williams I love Time Lord, and he's been playing this year, but another full-time injury risk guy...would be a great backup somewhere else
DeAndre Ayton superstar agility in a huge body. Good offensive skills inside, not a 3pt guy, expiring $35.6m, minimal defense. Clingan on-deck in POR
Jusuf Nurkic huge vet, not a mobile defender but good offensive skillset, expiring $19.4m, will CHA draft Maluach, will Mark Willliams stay healthy?
VUUUUUUC expiring $21.5m, dude can shoot and has been an elite defensive rebounder, weak defender, but big and smart, used to be McHale-like
Jakob Poeltl MY CHOICE for a trade target...I could see TOR taking WCJ+, drafting Maluach, saving some $$$, knowing WCJ can switch to PF when need
Zach Collins expiring $18m, skilled but yet another chronically injured big
RoLo retired, why not? get him and his brother on team-friendly one year deals, to play together, Disney together. Brook is still awesome.
Daniel Gafford expiring $14.4, could be available with Lively and AD onboard in DAL, but won't be very cheap, good vertical player on both ends
Kelly Olynyk expiring $13.4, Gonzaga smart, shoots 3's and passes exceptionally well...like a bigger Ingles, not a defender, should be here already
Yves Missi good rookie season, pure raw athleticism and motor, shouldn't be available unless NOLA drafts a bigger version in Maluach
Bobby Portis $13.4 PO, if Giannis asks out, what's there for him...not really a C, but could cover 4/5 really well, does it all and is tough
Walker Kessler $4.9 expiring then RFA...BIG, elite rebounder at both ends, shot blocker, constant concern for those driving to the paint. Love it.
Dwight retired, worn out, would jump to come back and finish in ORL, could he give 10 violent mpg? It's hard to imagine he couldn't impact

That's all for me...I'm exhausted...who'd I miss? who do you like? who am I wrong about that actually sucks?

Is Dwight Howard even eligible to play in the NBA because of Hall of Fame?

[KillMonger]

Yeah...... I disagree with all that

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Why

wrong thread......but if you ask me i'd rather have a stretch that can rebound than a clint capela type

[dsg2021]

Not sure who would want to pay 30+ a year to a 30 year old, injury prone, inconsistent impact Kristaps Porzingis after his last contract year for next season.

In other words, he might be more of a buy-low, keep-low candidate than we think. Of course, he will still always be worth probably 20+. And I’m not even salivating at his 3 point range per say. At this point, I love his height and blocking the most for us. Maybe cap his MPG to 29.5 in the reg season. Targeting to remove WCJ and Goga’s salaries to offset.

I would then Skybox this **** and make simultaneous cap clearing moves/trades and/or a 3-4 way trade to come out with Dejounte Murray and KP this Summer.

Murray / AB
Suggs / KCP
Franz / KCP
Paolo / JI / TDS
KP / Mo / 1st

Add 1-3 shooters. Shhh, don’t ask me how AB and TDS still on the roster.


I have a vaguely similar angle with DeAndre Ayton. Same last contract year next season. Same inconsistency. Not even the best engine I heard. So another true 7 footer that might not command 25-30+. The problem is if he has a great year in POR/ORL next season (with last year contract motivation), his agent gets to throw around his young-ish age again. Seems like a smaller gamble (where we don’t care too much if he walks) and if he was more of a throw-in with someone like Anfernee than we thought.

[drsd]

Just for general kickstart...it's ludicrous to have your least expensive C making $9m. Our starter is inexpensive but subpar, imo. Moe is fine as a backup, but his TO could be declined and he can be re-upped for something like $8m x 3years...I don't think that's negative or a slight to him, it's just more realistic for a guy deemed "can't be the starter".

I'm kind okay with Moe in the middle, but I'd like a better, bigger, meaner, more reliable C. For third string, I want a rookie scale guy - there are a few interesting ones - or a $3m crafty vet with no real need for regular minutes but can give them too you when needed (think Plumlee or Tristan Thompson, etc). I think Goga is too promising and highly paid for the role we have for him...it's a waste of talent and of payroll.

To start with, Bitadze will make "only" 7.6M next year.

The Magic currently has 36.7M tied up in the 2025/26 Center rotation. That is 18.8% of the salary line the Magic targets next year (below 195M); i.e. less than the 20% each rotation slot has allocated to it.

Yes the Centers could all be better. Yes Bitadze is overpaid in the sense that a 3rd-string backup should never make that much money; but justified in that Carter will never play a 70-game season and Bitadze will always get 10-15 starting gigs per year on a roster that has Carter on it.

For me the improving the salary line and improving the production line of the Centers is nowhere near a priority for this team. A new starting guard and a new backup SF are the priorities. Until those to are resolved, nothing else matters to me.

[pepe1991]

Goga got 11 min in playoffs. Scored once. Had 3 rebounds.

Mosley does not value him high enough to consider him long term starter. Nor he should. Goga is good value for what he is, backup C who has no issues losing rotation spot if team needs to remove him.

[AdamTheGreek]

Wendell cannot be a starting center. He’ll at best play a good 8 out of his 30 minutes.

He said in the exit interview that he was dealing with injuries all season (which I consistently pointed out).

Get off his contract now while it sort of appears he had a relatively healthy season. His plantar fasciitis is a problem that will not go away. His shooting was awful. He’s not a rim runner. We need a center that can do one or both, he does neither. His lateral defense is great, but that’s not what we need at center.

[JoshuaPotter]

While I agree that our PF / C rotation is bad. Very very bad. It's defense is anchored by a guy made of paper mache levels of bad. Isaac just isn't servicable for more then 15mpg of insanity. Goga, also, just brings no offense to relief a guy that brings a tiny bit of offense. In short. It's a mess.

Mo I consider a PF / C. But is the current only bench player that is known for consistent offense. Seeing as thats the harder of the 2 for us to find, I would like to keep him lol. Plus "effort" regarding Mo is not in question.

[eyriq]

Wendell cannot be a starting center. He’ll at best play a good 8 out of his 30 minutes.

He said in the exit interview that he was dealing with injuries all season (which I consistently pointed out).

Get off his contract now while it sort of appears he had a relatively healthy season. His plantar fasciitis is a problem that will not go away. His shooting was awful. He’s not a rim runner. We need a center that can do one or both, he does neither. His lateral defense is great, but that’s not what we need at center.

Agreed. The red flags are plentiful.

[Skybox]

Free Agent Centers that MAY be of interest...SnT, MLE (or part of it, assuming we can get there with other cost-saving moves)...
*just listing guys...some may be way out of reach. Some would start, some might not get a minute if we're healthy

Steven Adams still one of the elite offensive rebounders and best pick setters EVER...great dude too. HOU would be foolish to let him get away
Clint Capela
Marvin Bagley (maybe not a real C, but perhaps a guy that could also burn minutes at PF, on a very low deal)
Andre Drummond one of the great rebounders of all time
Mason Plumlee had some really good seasons, very solid passer
DeAndre Jordan huge and (formerly?) athletic...anything left in the tank?
Luke Kornet almost 30, probably very happy in BOS, doing his thing, collecting rings
Santi Aldama very interesting, overlooked in MEM?, shoots 3's but can he do big man stuff defensively?
Jaxson Hayes catches lobs high above the rim...I think that's all he does well
Mo Bamba no, I'm serious, obviously a deep dive, vet min...but he can shoot 3's and, when active, he's an elite shot deterrent around the rim, weak

Guys that might be available via trade that MAY be of interest...
Mitchell Robinson really good, really big defender & rebounder...just too much of a chronic injury risk for me
Porzingis also a constant injury watch, but man is he good. BOS loves him, but could be a cap casualty for a less expensive, lesser player
Robert Williams I love Time Lord, and he's been playing this year, but another full-time injury risk guy...would be a great backup somewhere else
DeAndre Ayton superstar agility in a huge body. Good offensive skills inside, not a 3pt guy, expiring $35.6m, minimal defense. Clingan on-deck in POR
Jusuf Nurkic huge vet, not a mobile defender but good offensive skillset, expiring $19.4m, will CHA draft Maluach, will Mark Willliams stay healthy?
VUUUUUUC expiring $21.5m, dude can shoot and has been an elite defensive rebounder, weak defender, but big and smart, used to be McHale-like
Jakob Poeltl MY CHOICE for a trade target...I could see TOR taking WCJ+, drafting Maluach, saving some $$$, knowing WCJ can switch to PF when need
Zach Collins expiring $18m, skilled but yet another chronically injured big
RoLo retired, why not? get him and his brother on team-friendly one year deals, to play together, Disney together. Brook is still awesome.
Daniel Gafford expiring $14.4, could be available with Lively and AD onboard in DAL, but won't be very cheap, good vertical player on both ends
Kelly Olynyk expiring $13.4, Gonzaga smart, shoots 3's and passes exceptionally well...like a bigger Ingles, not a defender, should be here already
Yves Missi good rookie season, pure raw athleticism and motor, shouldn't be available unless NOLA drafts a bigger version in Maluach
Bobby Portis $13.4 PO, if Giannis asks out, what's there for him...not really a C, but could cover 4/5 really well, does it all and is tough
Walker Kessler $4.9 expiring then RFA...BIG, elite rebounder at both ends, shot blocker, constant concern for those driving to the paint. Love it.
Dwight retired, worn out, would jump to come back and finish in ORL, could he give 10 violent mpg? It's hard to imagine he couldn't impact

That's all for me...I'm exhausted...who'd I miss? who do you like? who am I wrong about that actually sucks?

Is Dwight Howard even eligible to play in the NBA because of Hall of Fame?

I was goofing around with that one...but it is kind of hard to imagine that he couldn't contribute something ...I've been the Anti-Dwight guy around here.

[Skybox]

Wendell cannot be a starting center. He’ll at best play a good 8 out of his 30 minutes.

He said in the exit interview that he was dealing with injuries all season (which I consistently pointed out).

Get off his contract now while it sort of appears he had a relatively healthy season. His plantar fasciitis is a problem that will not go away. His shooting was awful. He’s not a rim runner. We need a center that can do one or both, he does neither. His lateral defense is great, but that’s not what we need at center.

Yep...from all accounts, most popular guy on the team, hilarious, etc...but it's time to stop clinging to guys while they fall apart before our eyes. Move him while he's movable. One more cheap year before his extension makes him a lot easier for a team to fit into their payroll.

[RichCollab]

I feel like this deserves a thread of its own...offseason is here and two completely convoluted threads re: the offseason probably isn't the cleanest way to go. Mods, if I'm out of line...kill me!

Backcourt offense, scoring, shooting & playmaking is pretty universally acknowledged as offseason priority #1 (as it should be)

But I think the Center spot, from top to bottom, needs a hard look.

WCJ fought hard vs BOS and, imo, put in his best work in a long time. He's got one more year at $10.9m and then his extension kicks in...18.1m, 19.6m and then a team option year at $21m...not really terrible deal for a full-time starting Center...but I don't know if he should be that.

Goga clearly has lost the trust of Mose, based on how little playoff time he got...as a result, imo, he looked kind of lost. I think, historically, he's played way better when he gets more time (starting for an oft-injured starter) than off the bench. He's due to make $8.3m next year and then one more at $7.6m

Moe tore his ACL and will likely not be back until December, well into next season. Right now, he's up in the air with a team option of $11m for next season. ACL shouldn't be a lingering type of injury and, by all accounts, he's progressing in his rehab.

I POSTED THIS ELSEWHERE BUT WANT TO RE-START THE CONVERSATION HERE...

How bad is Moe's defense really? Is it just unsalvageable or can it be brought up, schemed for, etc enough to make him playable (assuming he returns at full strength - whenever that is, December?). We bounce around a lot of names, including Danny Wolf, for an example...but can we go in that kind of finesse center direction or do we really need more of a defensive and rebounding anchor?

The whole "find a rim-protecting, rebounding, switching defender, who can knock down 3's and finish lobs 5' above the rim" ain't happening...what are the potential compromises.

I've suggested Sabonis and "defense sucks"
Capela - "can't spread the floor"
Maluach - "not really a rebounder" based on one game - after averaging 11.2 per game while still learning the sport
Poeltl - too slow, can't switch
I mean, everyone is some kind of compromise, what is our best option to concede...to me, it's the opposite of our Guard situation (which is "Enough with the freaking lockdown guys - we need guards to also do guard things").

WCJ spreads the floor, rebounds at a high level, is big and sturdy enough to mix it up with anyone, is reliable in effort and health, and on a good team-friendly deal...no, he's not any of those except in flashes (good effort vs BOS)

what do we really need that's gettable?

For me, it's throw picks around to get Maluach. Mosely would drool over a raw piece of 7' power and instinct with that level of mobility. We've had a tremendous defense without any kind of real rim-protecting deterrent. Maybe I'm underestimating WCJ - he does do an amazing job, at times, of switching onto smaller players and staying with them briefly...I just wish he'd get 10+ rebounds per game and not really look overmatched against the really big guys...sometimes he's dunking everything, grabbing boards in traffic and just looking possessed. He's awesome in spurts when he looks like he's playing angry - maybe right after he caught an accidental (or not) elbow...when I coached my young son, who was big & skilled among the other guys at the Y, I would marvel at the difference in his performance after he took a bump or, for whatever reason, got pissed off...I would (kind of) joke that I needed to call a timeout and pinch his tricep or nipple to get him going.

Anyway, what's our Center outlook? If you think it's fine as is, skip it and just go away

I doubt we address the center position this offseason other than maybe moving one.

[89Magicfan]

Is Myles Turner worth a look?

[drsd]

I doubt we address the center position this offseason other than maybe moving one.

If the Magic trade Carter or Bitadze, and re-sign M-Wagner, there will be a need to have a new 3rd stringer. Orlando could go vet-LLE: e.g. Luke Kornet or Mason Plumlee. Or use the #25 on a skilled big - low ceiling/high floor: e.g. Joan Beringer or Yaxel Lendeborg.

I'm OK with that.