Nelson still out

Max Power · Post #21 » by **Max Power** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:45 pm

Look, I won't say Jameer is Jason Kidd when it comes to defense, he's not. His size is a real liability. But lets face it, he's got a 5 extension or whatever it was, and that means in all likelyhood he'll be the guy unless the Magic make a deal (not very likely). My point is that all this complaining about him is counter productive. It helps nothing. Besides, even if we make a move, I still beleive he'll be here for a while as a reserve, because even with his deficiencies, when Jameer Nelson is on his game, he can go with the best of them.

Yeah, I admit, I am a fan of Jameer, and I hate to see him struggle like this. He's a good guy, and I hope he gets it together.

AdamTheGreek · Post #22 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:52 pm

Hopefully Jameer will realize that he needs to put forth full effort on both ends of the court like he was to start the season.

magicmamma · Post #23 » by **magicmamma** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:45 pm

IMO, Carlos doesn't defend at all, in part because he's too slow to keep up with the other point guards. He has been running a good offense the past few games. It would be great if we could get a big, defensively-minded point guard who could distribute the ball. Maybe one on the downside of his career who would come on the cheap for the chance at a championship. Yeah ... dream on.

I think it's actually good that Jameer is sitting with that foot. He needs to get all his damaged body parts healed up. He always plays well when he comes back from an injury. Watching games gets his thinking straight.

Post #24 » by **Devin 1L** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:03 pm

magicmamma wrote:IMO, Carlos doesn't defend at all, in part because he's too slow to keep up with the other point guards. He has been running a good offense the past few games. It would be great if we could get a big, defensively-minded point guard who could distribute the ball. Maybe one on the downside of his career who would come on the cheap for the chance at a championship. Yeah ... dream on.

I think it's actually good that Jameer is sitting with that foot. He needs to get all his damaged body parts healed up. He always plays well when he comes back from an injury. Watching games gets his thinking straight.

See, this is part of what frustrates me with him.

I don't think that it is due to him being too slow at all. In fact, I think he is rather quick.

You see his quickness when he has the ball, or when his offense is going, which leads me to believe that this is more of an issue of will.

drsd · Post #25 » by **drsd** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:05 pm

Dooling played well whenever he came in for Evans. Thus, as a SG. Arroyo wa average, but dod not hurt the Magic.

The Magic need Nelson to ensure depth.

bucsmagicfan · Post #26 » by **bucsmagicfan** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:06 pm

Idunkonyou2 wrote:Nelson is a streaky player. He is a backup in the NBA, not a starter. The Magic need to get a true starting PG for next season and a true starting PF.

and a true starting SG.

DiplomaticMagic · Post #27 » by **DiplomaticMagic** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:15 pm

Max Power wrote:You know, you guys can bitch all day about Jameer and it doesn't change the fact that he is THEE guy at the point here for the next several years. Might as well throw some support towards the guy. He isn't the worst player in the NBA like a majority of you guys claim.

Jameer can do a lot of things well, the problem being he hasn't done them together in a long while. There have been games this season where Jameer Nelson was the guy who's defense got the job done. Chauncey Billups is a 6 feet 4 inch pg, who outweighs Meer by 20 pounds. He's an MVP type of player, what the hell do you expect?

Jameer is a guy who puts forth the effort, he's not a lazy player, and he tries to lead too. I have a great deal of respect for him. I personally think he's got all the tools to be a pretty good player.

As for Arroyo, you guys are simply fooled by the fact that he's bigger than Jameer, as Carlos is just as bad on D as Meer is. Both are so weak it's not worth discussing.

I think that a lot of people underestimate Doolings worth. Whenever he gets DNP - Coaches decision, we lose. Dooling is by far this teams best perimeter defender. Sure, I agree his shot selection is almost as bad as Arroyo's, but the difference is, when I see Dooling take a bad shot, it goes in. He's a lot better than people think.

agreed..except the dooling part :wink:

However I don't think Arroyo is a bad defender..Is it just me?

I don't think Jameer is as bad as ppl think too..jameer some games hes awesome some games he's not..but he runs the offense good..he doesnt even chuck alot this year..his shots are way down. although hes not the best defender..he strips the ball alot especially with big men in the post..he comes and takes a swipe at it

mttingly2391 · Post #28 » by **mttingly2391** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:01 pm

Jameer is actualy worse than people make him out to be. He is not a starting pg and never will be. He is definitely more suited to come off the bench and make an impact that way. Look at the game he had against, I think it was Chicago off the bench. I don't blame him really. I blame the Magic for putting him in a role that he just isnt' good enough to play.

He is definitely one of, if not the worst defensive pg in the league. The Magic have had trouble over the last couple of years with penetration by the opposing team. That is due to lack of defense by guards up top. I'm not saying Carlos or Keyon is the answer, although I do like them both. I just think Jameer should be coming off the bench the rest of his career. I still can't believe that he got an extension after having a worse season last year than the year before. I know , I know...someone will say that "well could you imagine if we didn't resign him and he was having a breakout season"...that's true, but I still say that would have been great, but he didn't deserve the extension this past summer.

Sorry to be so negative...GREAT WIN LAST NIGHT, THAT'S FOR DAMN SURE!!!

Shishnizzle · Post #29 » by **Shishnizzle** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:17 pm

I think our offense runs better with Jameer at the point. I think agianst bigger point guards Jameer struggles to contian the best point guards in the game, Billups, Parker ect. I like Dooling guarding Billups, that was a good move by SVG. I think Carlos is playing very good lately.

I think there are a bunch of posters who think they know talent and don't. I here people say they hate Dooling, and he is playing hard on defense and he is being asked to play out of position and he just mans up and play's. I think the hate for Dooling by some Magic fans is based in ignorance.

Posters either hate a player or fall in love with a player, as if they expect every player to be a super star or a scrub. We have some good role players on our team.

Jameer is our best option at point guard, but I hope we try and get our future point guard in the draft, because if we can find a top5 type point guard we will be ste.

drsd · Post #30 » by **drsd** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:15 pm

NumeroUn0 wrote:Jameer is our best option at point guard, but I hope we try and get our future point guard in the draft, because if we can find a top5 type point guard we will be ste.

It takes years to develop a PG out of the draft. If you think the Magic can upgrade at the PG slot, propose trades or FA moves, not the draft.

JigenDaisuke · Post #31 » by **JigenDaisuke** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:52 pm

I am interested to see how the Magic play against Memphis with Nelson out.

Post #32 » by **craig01** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:01 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

agreed..except the dooling part

However I don't think Arroyo is a bad defender..Is it just me?

Arroyo's feet defensively = molasses.

MagicStarwipe · Post #33 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:03 am

Jameer is the best at running our offense. That can't be denied. Dooling is the best defender, but he makes me want to tear my eyes out when he plays the point.

Oh, and Carlos is NOT a better defender than Jameer.

Shishnizzle · Post #34 » by **Shishnizzle** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:54 am

drsd wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

It takes years to develop a PG out of the draft. If you think the Magic can upgrade at the PG slot, propose trades or FA moves, not the draft.

I don't have a problem developing a point guard. If we trade for one Jameer will have to be traded too, because he has a long term contract. I'm talking long term because of Jameer's contarct. Any trade suggested would be just anther board pipe dream. So for me, the most likely solution is the draft. I don't believe all the Magic's solutions can be solved through a fantasy trade. Would'nt mind seeing one. If you have a realistic trade I would'nt mind hearing it.

BadMofoPimp · Post #35 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:23 am

I have been saying that Nelson should not be the Magic's starting PG for years. I was soo pissed they signed him that extension. He makes a good backup though. But, he gets killed by bigger PG's. I would love to see a trade involving Jameer. Arroyo and Dooling can hold the point until the summer anyways.

Last Guardian · Post #36 » by **Last Guardian** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:53 am

bucsmagicfan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

and a true starting SG.

So we need a true starting SG, PG and PF. We must have the friggin worst record in the league right now.

Lets face it, you guys either underrate the players we have right now or the league is lying and the Magic only have 5 wins right now.

lovehoops01 · Post #37 » by **lovehoops01** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:51 am

UCFJayBird wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

ur joking right? Jameer not playing had zero effect on Billups. Billups wasn't aggressive last night and didn't try and take a lot of shots, that's the only reason he didn't tear us up. Carlos is just as bad a defender as Jameer.

Well, the fact of the matter is that Dooling and Bogans -- two guys who play primarily shooting guard -- were the primary defenders Monday on Billups. The Pistons tried to beat the Magic with their frontcourt mostly anyway. There were parts of the game when they had Bogans guarding Billups and Evans guarding Rip at the same time.