Money real reason no trade made

[lovehoops01]

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But where, WHERE did I stated that we would contend by doing a move with our expirings? Stop finding excuses and read my posts like I write them.

My point is....if you're not making a move to make the team a championship team and you have other plans if you can't make a trade to make you a championship team, then why add salary?

[zuppafly]

Because a championship team is built with pieces that fit together. Filling our PF hole would make us stronger. Using the MLE later would make us even stronger. And you get 2 guys to complement our main pieces instead of adding a 13 millions contract that lands us one piece and keeps another hole open.
You keep adding a few until you have the assets to contend and if things don't work out with those role players you use their expiring contrats to acquire other players.

You can't build a house by placing 2 walls and a roof. You need 4 walls to support the roof.

[EasternMagic]

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Where did I say "we're screwed"? Don't put words in my mouth, please. I said, and I repeat it, that we lost our best chance of using valuable assets to at least improve some glaring holes (or one, as I expected). We are still the third best record in the east right now and I want us to improve. And that's why I believe we dodged a great chance to do.

I may have gone far with the "we are screwed" im just angry at whats his face denying i have no evidence when i most certainly do. what my point was i stated the 50 wins because theres a feeling of disapointmen on this board like now that we didnt make a trade we lose potential. where i dont think thats true and when we aquire a free agent power forward in the off season who is better than kurt thomas i think people here will agree with me. (or God willing, Fran decides to be a beast)

[EasternMagic]

Because a championship team is built with pieces that fit together. Filling our PF hole would make us stronger. Using the MLE later would make us even stronger. And you get 2 guys to complement our main pieces instead of adding a 13 millions contract that lands us one piece and keeps another hole open.
You keep adding a few until you have the assets to contend and if things don't work out with those role players you use their expiring contrats to acquire other players.

You can't build a house by placing 2 walls and a roof. You need 4 walls to support the roof.

so by saying that your suggesting that otis passed on someone he knew would fit like that. i dont think so. i think he passed cause there was noone who could fit like that

[maginno]

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I may have gone far with the "we are screwed" im just angry at whats his face denying i have no evidence when i most certainly do.

You have none. If you do then present the place in print or otherwise where any team stepped up and said they would offer Shard the max. Thats what I said you had no evidence on. and don't go running away into some other topic.

As anyone whose been around can attest I have no problems in responding to your put downs but I pass. simply present the evidence to "whats his face" or run away to another point. I have a safe bet which you will choose.

[zuppafly]

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I may have gone far with the "we are screwed" im just angry at whats his face denying i have no evidence when i most certainly do. what my point was i stated the 50 wins because theres a feeling of disapointmen on this board like now that we didnt make a trade we lose potential. where i dont think thats true and when we aquire a free agent power forward in the off season who is better than kurt thomas i think people here will agree with me. (or God willing, Fran decides to be a beast)

I agree that we didn't became worse, it'd be stupid to say so.

But I do think we lost potential, and by potential I mean expiring contracts and one or two players that could be used in a trade because they are not main pieces of our roster and could have landed us someone like Wilcox that could have helped the team more than these expirings do.

About Fran, a few years ago (months before we drafted him) I wrote in another board (MagicMadness) that we should get him. I see quite a few Spanish league games here in Portugal and he was amazing back then. The perfect fit to go alongside Howard... athletic, long arms, showing signs of having an outside jumper. When we drafted I couldn't believe I had picked him a few months before. Then his "novel" begun and frankly it seems that in this period in Spain he didn't develop at all... I think he lost a few years that could have made him develop into a good player... right now I'm not so sure he could be a real contributor to this team. I hope I'm wrong though.

[lovehoops01]

Because a championship team is built with pieces that fit together. Filling our PF hole would make us stronger. Using the MLE later would make us even stronger. And you get 2 guys to complement our main pieces instead of adding a 13 millions contract that lands us one piece and keeps another hole open.
You keep adding a few until you have the assets to contend and if things don't work out with those role players you use their expiring contrats to acquire other players.

You can't build a house by placing 2 walls and a roof. You need 4 walls to support the roof.

And that power forward was?

The one deal we heard out there that there was an actual shot at a deal was Kurt Thomas. He is 35 years old and his contract is up after this season. He ended up being dealt to the Spurs by a guy who got his start at being a GM with the Spurs. That's the deal that would be pieces they could make fit?

Or perhaps you meant Udonis Haslem? The guy that Brian Schmitz, John Denton and the guy who covers the Heat for the South Florida paper said would not be dealt to Orlando by Orlando under any circumstances because of acrimony between the teams over the hiring of Van Gundy this summer.

Or maybe there was someone else?

[EasternMagic]

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You have none. If you do then present the place in print or otherwise where any team stepped up and said they would offer Shard the max. Thats what I said you had no evidence on. and don't go running away into some other topic.

As anyone whose been around can attest I have no problems in responding to your put downs but I pass. simply present the evidence to "whats his face" or run away to another point. I have a safe bet which you will choose.

you right almight maginno you must be a basketball genius! None else wouldve have paid rashard to put him on their team! Thats stupid!!! You must be a psychic with those safe bets of yours too!!!!

[zuppafly]

[quote="lovehoops01"][/quote]
Wilcox. As I've said a lot of times in my last posts on this boards. It was reported by Denton that Otis had talks to get him. Want a better and cheaper young (still) PF with potential, that bangs inside and grabs rebounds? Doubt you'll find one better.
His price? 6.5 millions. Seattle wanted expirings and Arroyo or expirings and JJ and a pick in those deals. It was reported (IIRC) in the Sentinel too. Otis didn't want to part with JJ nor Arroyo.

[EasternMagic]

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I agree that we didn't became worse, it'd be stupid to say so.

But I do think we lost potential, and by potential I mean expiring contracts and one or two players that could be used in a trade because they are not main pieces of our roster and could have landed us someone like Wilcox that could have helped the team more than these expirings do.

About Fran, a few years ago (months before we drafted him) I wrote in another board (MagicMadness) that we should get him. I see quite a few Spanish league games here in Portugal and he was amazing back then. The perfect fit to go alongside Howard... athletic, long arms, showing signs of having an outside jumper. When we drafted I couldn't believe I had picked him a few months before. Then his "novel" begun and frankly it seems that in this period in Spain he didn't develop at all... I think he lost a few years that could have made him develop into a good player... right now I'm not so sure he could be a real contributor to this team. I hope I'm wrong though.

i see were your coming from with wilcox. but im pretty sure if we couldve had Wilcox JUST for Garrity, Arroyo, and bogans otis wouldve done that. but im pretty sure they wanted more like a dooling and a draft pick and we wouldve had to take on rindinour or someone we dont necessarily need and whos contract is to big to be worth it. i could be wrong but thats just what ive narrowed it down to.

as for the fran thing, i remember all the hype about him, and agree he shouldnt have pulled that stunt. he probably made himself worse. but i really hope we can do something with him, whether it be a trade or play time just something

[maginno]

The goal of every team in the NBa. NO scratch that - in any professional sport is to win a title. I don't see the Patriots jumping up and down now. Every year we have teams that do well in the regular season and hit a brick wall and get bounced first round in the playoffs.

Without question Zuppa is right. we didn't become a worse team but we failed to become a team that can seriously contend in the playoffs where the intensity is ratcheted up and rebounding , defense and size play a big part. 90% of this board now sees that Otis is anything but a premier Gm not just because of what he didn't do but by what he is saying is the reason for not doing anything.

A few posters whining about the general consensus isn't going to do anything to change the boards consensus.

[zuppafly]

What was in some article was that Wilcox would cost an expiring (maybe garrity? ), Arroyo or JJ and a pick.
IDK about them adding Ridnour or Watson.

[N4U|Redux]

For one, you may have all the reason in the world but you lose it the moment you start giving arguments like "kids like you".

That's an inherently absurd remark...what makes this statement of yours so? A guy cannot post to you like a jerk but still have a valid point? He sure can.

BTW - I do not particularly agree with the argument he's presented, just remarking how idiotic it is that it's viewed that if you say something someone else deems an "insult" that your argument is also belittled. It may not be great debate style and he may annoy you, but if the man has a point, he has a point...in this case, he doesn't have a point, you do, lol.

Secondly, I'd like people to stop talking about "our 50 wins team". Let the season finish and let the playoffs come to fully understand our real value, ok? I hope we do get over 50 wins and I hope we can get to the conference semi-finals at least. But we have to wait to see it.

The thing about being a 50-win team in the east is that that means very little. Can we honestly say we're head and shoulders better than the other 40-win teams in the west if we meet up in the playoffs by some fluke? A 50-win team in the east is mundane out west..and in order to not get raped in the finals by the west, you need to be better than a borderline 50-win team out east. None of the actual contenders (even if most are out west) have the significant holes we do; hence, we're not a legit contender.

[EasternMagic]

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You have none. If you do then present the place in print or otherwise where any team stepped up and said they would offer Shard the max. Thats what I said you had no evidence on. and don't go running away into some other topic.

As anyone whose been around can attest I have no problems in responding to your put downs but I pass. simply present the evidence to "whats his face" or run away to another point. I have a safe bet which you will choose.

and of course i dont have NBA papers of other teams willing to give him that kind of money. i dont work for the NBA, but i garuntee you we were not the only team who wanted him and was willing to pay top dollar for him. Not as high as we did, cause obviously thats how we got him. You really think that if we couldve gotten him for cheaper we wouldnt have? You honest cant think that there werent other teams who wanted to acquire him. and you can not produce INK that says im wrong, where as i can produce logic as to why you are wrong

[EasternMagic]

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The thing about being a 50-win team in the east is that that means very little. Can we honestly say we're head and shoulders better than the other 40-win teams in the west if we meet up in the playoffs by some fluke? A 50-win team in the east is mundane out west..and in order to not get raped in the finals by the west, you need to be better than a borderline 50-win team out east. None of the actual contenders (even if most are out west) have the significant holes we do; hence, we're not a legit contender.

lol thanks i guess, i shouldnt have said it though its just sinking down to his level

[N4U|Redux]

i garuntee you we were not the only team who wanted him and was willing to pay top dollar for him.

I guarantee I was the one that turned Britney Spears into the whore she is today.

You really think that if we couldve gotten him for cheaper we wouldnt have?

Yes.

You honest cant think that there werent other teams who wanted to acquire him. and you can not produce INK that says im wrong, where as i can produce logic as to why you are wrong

The opposing logic is stronger -- more logical -- what were these mysterious teams this past summer that had as much cap room as we did?

[EasternMagic]

What was in some article was that Wilcox would cost an expiring (maybe garrity? ), Arroyo or JJ and a pick.
IDK about them adding Ridnour or Watson.

i talked with some people and read many articles and the consensus i came to was that definitely would have had to have expirings and a pick. in other articles i read, they said that Carlisimo wants to start building around him and the other bigs they kept, i think if wilcox could have been had that easily another team would have picked him up when we passed. i think he had a little more value than thomas and wally

[maginno]

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you right almight maginno you must be a basketball genius! None else wouldve have paid rashard to put him on their team! Thats stupid!!! You must be a psychic with those safe bets of yours too!!!!

I can safely cash in my chips yes. exactly what I said you would do. Wheres the evidence you claimed to have? You....have....none. theres zip evidence anyone was going to offer Shard the max. Nada.

and its just a fact that we couldn't be worrying about money if we hadn't thrown the whole bank at him. I don't know anyone that thinks we shouldn't have gotten Shard just not for the max. Of course its done but at times like this its just one more example of a long line of Otis blunders that is causing even his most loyal supporters to abandon ship.

[lovehoops01]

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Wilcox. As I've said a lot of times in my last posts on this boards. It was reported by Denton that Otis had talks to get him. Want a better and cheaper young (still) PF with potential, that bangs inside and grabs rebounds? Doubt you'll find one better.
His price? 6.5 millions. Seattle wanted expirings and Arroyo or expirings and JJ and a pick in those deals. It was reported (IIRC) in the Sentinel too. Otis didn't want to part with JJ nor Arroyo.

A Seattle newspaper said that Wilcox and Collison are considered "mainstays,'' that it was Thomas they intended to move all along.

Carlesimo said last week the Sonics want to take a long look at their big men -- Swift and Johan Petro -- and he won't use a five-man rotation at center and power forward. The two players in that mix who won't lose playing time are Chris Wilcox and Nick Collison, meaning Thomas is almost certain to spend more time on the bench.

"It's going to be more dramatic with the (big men) because we haven't had a chance to look at those guys," Carlesimo said. "I haven't figured out (what happens to Thomas) and more importantly I haven't talked to Kurt or Robert about it, or Johan. We're not going to juggle five guys, I will tell you that. It will be lesser guys. That's part of what we haven't figured out."

So with a five-man rotation out of the question and Swift and Petro still young and unproven, and Wilcox and Collison being mainstays, it appears Thomas is out and perhaps could be moved by Thursday's trade deadline.

Link:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basketbal ... onx19.html

[EasternMagic]

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The opposing logic is stronger -- more logical -- what were these mysterious teams this past summer that had as much cap room as we did?

HAHAHAHA at the britney spears.
but seriously asking hear, you dont think if we couldve gotten him for cheaper we wouldnt have?