Bianchi: John Weisbrod Deserves Some Credit

[LiteHedded]

the doug christie trade kills me

[happypedro12]

Tracy is a terriffic player that always played hard for this franchise

terriffic player? yes. Played hard for the franchise? debatable. Yea he scored his butt off i'll give you that, but as far as beign a leader and playing for the team, I don't think so. He wanted a championship team to be given to him because he was good, but he didn't want to make a team into a championship because he's selfish. I hate bianchi with a passion, but this is..............dare i say it.............. a well written article by him

I like T-Mac but he's a scorer, not a winner

[sportsrock37]

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yeah protecting Grant Hill in the expansion draft, while leaving Zaza unprotected was idiotic. Like Charlotte wouldve taken Hills enormous contract. That was a dumb move.

Don't forget we also protected Andrew Declerq over Zaza too.

[UCF]

As far as the big one here..T Mac...please don't anyone call him Me Mac on this board ever again. That is a nickname thought of by the terrible Mike Bianchi. Let's not start using Bianchi terms on this board. Tracy is a terriffic player that always played hard for this franchise. He was never put with a formidable cast and he always had the disadvantage of playing with the uncertainty that was Grant Hill's health status. Yes I agree that we should have got out of the first round once with him, but if you watched him he always gave it his all on the court. Weis called him out and wanted to get rid of him just so he could say that he won't put up with whiny superstars and it is a team game. That is BS. Can you imagine if we would have held on to him and convinced him to play with Dwight. I truly believe that Weis just drove him away.
.

Me Mac... There I said it

Personally, I do think TMac was/is a bit selfish and I remember the events a little bit differently. Tmac wouldn't consider staying in Orlando if we drafted Dwight instead of Okafor. He cared about winning now and not later and Dwight was the "later" choice. I wonder if Tmac doesn't feel like a moron now for thinking that.

I said it back than I wouldn't mind seeing him traded and I'm glad we did deal him. Was I happy with what we got, nope. I think we could have done better, but that's the past and thats where that ends. We ended up down the road because of that trade with Lewis and besides his contract I like him a lot as a player.

T-Mac cares about himself, and I don't blame him.. that's everyone in this world.

[DontPushMe]

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Indeed -- if we would have only kept Steve-O and Mobley together we would certainly have had at least 3 NBA championships by now.

I doubt he was implying that. But the christie trade was horrible, and everyone here knows it.

Weisbrod made some good moves, some bad ones. Still after seeing what otis smith can do for a couple of years its obvioust hat we were much better off with weisbrod.

[mhectorgato]

I doubt he was implying that. But the christie trade was horrible, and everyone here knows it.

Weisbrod made some good moves, some bad ones. Still after seeing what otis smith can do for a couple of years its obvioust hat we were much better off with weisbrod.

Certainly in retrospect.

[Bensational]

Well, we have Rashard Lewis, Mo Pete, Brian Cook and Arroyo, none of whom we'd have if we kept Me-Back... and thats if he didn't force us to trade Dwight...

Tmac's trade can't be credited for Lewis, because had we kept Tmac and he had decided to walk, we'd have had cap space in the end anyways.

Brian Cook, Mo Evans and Arroyo for Tmac?

And i honestly don't think we're a better team for the moves that Weis made. we're better in spite of them. Hedo's only come out of his shell this season because of the coach that was haphazardly put in place. Battie or Gooden/Vareajo is a wash to me. the team's success has been a mix of better management and luck.

Weis acted like a jerk the entire time he was here and he deserves no respect in hindsight.

the Sentinel is a joke. Denton all the way.

[TheGlyde]

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Tmac's trade can't be credited for Lewis, because had we kept Tmac and he had decided to walk, we'd have had cap space in the end anyways.

You can't say we got nothing for it, we got a year and a half of productivity from Francis, we got half a year from Mobley, we got a year and a bit from Cato, we got parts of 3 seasons from Ariza, half a season from Mo and Cook, we got a few games from Christie, we got a season and a half from Darko, we got two seasons and counting from Arroyo, and we got capspace... all for TMac and a few spare parts.

If you want to argue about what we 'have left' from the trade, you need to include what each asset turned into, asset's evolve, they rarely drop off the face of the earth into nothingness (some do, Christie for example), Francis was traded for a reason; To get capspace to get a player like Lewis... We didn't trade TMac for Francis and then trade Francis away for nothing with the intent of never replacing him... he was replaced.

If you don't include what assets evolved into, you may as well say trading for Charles Barkley was horrible for the Suns, they gave up 3 players and they don't even have Barkley to show for it anymore...

The McGrady asset turned into Francis which turned into capspace which turned into Rashard Lewis, it's a fact.

[Bensational]

The McGrady asset turned into Francis which turned into capspace which turned into Rashard Lewis, it's a fact.

fair enough, i can see that.

however it becomes a moot point in my mind, simply because it was an end result that would've come about either way. no exactly as the

A) we take the path we went with and end up with the capability to sign Lewis or a Lewis type asset.
B) we retain Tmac and he walks and we end up with the capability to sign a Lewis type asset
C) we retain Tmac and he resigns and sticks with the team to date.

don't get me wrong, i'm aware that it's a blind way to look at the scenario by not including the pieces we had in between (Mobley, Cato, Darko, Christie, Ariza etc). other trades could've been made, players could've been resigned etc, but they weren't and we still came back to the same point. Tmac gone. Lewis in. it was going to happen one way or the other, we just chose the way that left us with Cook, Mo Evans and Arroyo at the end of it. that's essentially what the deal became.

[Last Guardian]

He got a lot of heat for the T-Mac trade, but I agreed with it. There is zero proof that PHX was willing to give up that rumored deal, it really didn't even make sense for them. Joe Johnson, Marion and the 7th pick? Despite T-Macs talent, that is way too much to give up for a disgruntled superstar.

The other thing is, lets not forget, that Tracy chose where he wanted to go. This wasn't an expiring contract, Tracy had to agree to go to a team or why would the team trade for him. T-Mac made it known he wanted to play with Yao.

So we got Francis/Mobley/Cato for him. And this team was great up until Weisbrod made his biggest mistake, trading Mobley for Christie. Too this day, who knows why that trade happened. We did have a short struggling span but then we had won 3 straight and boom, Cuttino was traded and the team fell apart.

Probably the biggest thing holding the team back was Johnny Davis. Had SVG been the coach of:

Francis/Nelson
Mobley/Stevenson
Hill/Turkoglu
Dwight/Garrity/BHunter
Cato/Battie/Kasun

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

That his biggest regret was throwing Varejao in the Battie trade. That trade really set the organization back in talent.

LOL.

What? The last thing this team needs is a pussy flopper.

I didn't like JW, btw. He made some bad trades.

[richboy]

Marion and JJ or Marion and #7 would both be better deals than the Francis deal.

I don't care what people thought about Gooden. You don't trade a guy that was just the #3 pick in the draft and one of the top international bigs for Tony Battie. The only reason Varejao went second round because of questions on when he could come over. Similar to Splitter now.

[HeyIt'sMe]

Varejao is a hell of a lot better than Foyle, that's for sure. Who cares if he flops?

BTW, I still liked the Battie trade for Gooden... had they not included Varejao. Gooden is a pretty talented low post scorer, but has no basketball IQ and is intent on shooting that mediocre mid range jumper he has. Battie, say what you want about him, is a better defender than Gooden and, more importantly, is a terrific leader. The Gooden trade allowed Howard more minutes and involvement on the team than he would of normally gotten (IMHO) and would of inhibited his development since Gooden would of taken even more shots from Dwight, and he hardly got any his rookie season to begin with. Not to mention, Gooden is a known party animal and wouldn't of been much of a mentor for Dwight... not compared to Battie.

[Devin 1L]

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I doubt he was implying that. But the christie trade was horrible, and everyone here knows it.

Weisbrod made some good moves, some bad ones. Still after seeing what otis smith can do for a couple of years its obvioust hat we were much better off with weisbrod.

Is this serious?

(Sorry, I'm not familiar with your views.)

[TheGlyde]

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Is this serious?

(Sorry, I'm not familiar with your views.)

Loved Ariza, felt it was a terrible trade, claimed Cook was worse than Garrity and would hurt the team every time he stepped onto the court.

[Shishnizzle]

I have all way's defended Weisbrod, but reading this thread it came to me. That one of the real reasons we are where we are today has alot more to do with good fortune than anything. The fact that thier first choice was Foyle and then we only ended up with Hedo. The fact that Donovan changed his mind in time to for us call in Kinko's to the rescue, the fact that the Knicks were stupid enough to take Steve Francis off our hands. I'm just saying after all of the bad luck this franchise has sufferd over the years. It looks like we may be turning the corner. Hopefully we can keep from shooting ourselves in the foot agian.

[Bay_Areas_Finest]

Ariza is/was over-rated and I still like the trade for Evans/Cook. BC isn't anything special, but he's a good 3-Pt shooter, and Evans is better than Ariza, especially for this team.

Varejao is a hell of a lot better than Foyle, that's for sure. Who cares if he flops?

I do.

Flopping shows a lack of a backbone, and I don't want a player like that on my team. I don't care who it is, and how good his numbers are. If you flop, you're trash.

[Bensational]

He got a lot of heat for the T-Mac trade, but I agreed with it. There is zero proof that PHX was willing to give up that rumored deal, it really didn't even make sense for them. Joe Johnson, Marion and the 7th pick? Despite T-Macs talent, that is way too much to give up for a disgruntled superstar.

The other thing is, lets not forget, that Tracy chose where he wanted to go. This wasn't an expiring contract, Tracy had to agree to go to a team or why would the team trade for him. T-Mac made it known he wanted to play with Yao.

So we got Francis/Mobley/Cato for him. And this team was great up until Weisbrod made his biggest mistake, trading Mobley for Christie. Too this day, who knows why that trade happened. We did have a short struggling span but then we had won 3 straight and boom, Cuttino was traded and the team fell apart.

Probably the biggest thing holding the team back was Johnny Davis. Had SVG been the coach of:

Francis/Nelson
Mobley/Stevenson
Hill/Turkoglu
Dwight/Garrity/BHunter
Cato/Battie/Kasun

i'm deadly glad that that team failed. imagine if we'd tasted a bit of success with Francis and the team never came to part with him??

[DontPushMe]

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Loved Ariza, felt it was a terrible trade, claimed Cook was worse than Garrity and would hurt the team every time he stepped onto the court.

Close. I didnt love ariza though. I wanted to trade him, just not for cook and mo evans. Ariza didnt fit in here anymore. You can only have so many SFs.

Anyway, even if otis managed to trade 1 scrub for 2 slightly better scrubs it doesnt negate everything else he has done here. If THAT is the move you will point to to say that otis is doing a good job, after 3 years here, it really says a lot about his skill as a gm. Try again when he makes a good draft pick, or a trade that really helps the team.

Jameers extension was (Please Use More Appropriate Word). Lewis was overpaid and we would have been better off with Gerald Wallace. Detroit raped us in the darko trade. He has yet to get production out of a draft pick he made. The guy sucks. He has lucked into the situation he is currently in, there is really no reason for anyone to defend him as even an average gm.

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Certainly in retrospect.

Not just in retrospect. The opinion on the trade here was resoundingly negative if i remember correctly.

[mhectorgato]

Not just in retrospect. The opinion on the trade here was resoundingly negative if i remember correctly.

Many also said that Christie was just what we needed - defensive minded, assisting and outside shooting 2 guard. Between he and Francis ball movement was near non-existent, Christie was brought in to help that, and give us a lock down 2 guard.

But that was my opinion of the move, so perhaps my memory is colored by that.