Maybe Stan has a plan...or is getting one?

magicman123 · Post #21 » by **magicman123** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:50 pm

D12Howard wrote:JJ will hit the buzzer beating game winning three in game 7 after sitting cold the entire series. Then he will be benched in round 2 and forgotton about

ha, only jj

MitchellUK · Post #22 » by **MitchellUK** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:12 pm

craig01 wrote:Hell, I still don't know if Redick is good OR not good.????????

How would anybody know at this point.

I would take the fact that he hasn't beaten out three career journeymen for minutes as a good indicator that he isn't that great.....

DiplomaticMagic · Post #23 » by **DiplomaticMagic** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:31 pm

Well we weren't really blowing them out. The lead was like 9 and Foyle/Garrity/Redick was on the floor.

But I still wouldn't look much into it.

maginno · Post #24 » by **maginno** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:16 pm

MitchellUK wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I would take the fact that he hasn't beaten out three career journeymen for minutes as a good indicator that he isn't that great.....

So is it "isn't that great" or not good? or do JJ haters not know the difference? they certainly don't know about Bball since players often get better moving from one team to another based on the system. lest you forget recent history Evans wasn't worth keeping on the lakers. JJ isn't a journeyman which is to his advantage if your figure it out.

Meanwhile last game just continues the trend I have been watching and pointing out for months - most of the time JJ when gets more than ten minutes he does double digits in scoring. Clearly an indication of how much of a bust he has proven to be in the NBA ).

MitchellUK · Post #25 » by **MitchellUK** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:36 pm

maginno wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

So is it "isn't that great" or not good? or do JJ haters not know the difference? they certainly don't know about Bball since players often get better moving from one team to another based on the system. lest you forget recent history Evans wasn't worth keeping on the lakers. JJ isn't a journeyman which is to his advantage if your figure it out.

Meanwhile last game just continues the trend I have been watching and pointing out for months - most of the time JJ when gets more than ten minutes he does double digits in scoring. Clearly an indication of how much of a bust he has proven to be in the NBA ).

I'm no 'JJ hater'. I'd love to see him do well for Orlando as long as it benefits the team. And the "isn't that great" comment was merely a turn of phrase. My opinion is that JJ is a pretty good player who could have a solid NBA career, not that JJ was a journeyman - but odds are he could be given time. I agree, in the right system Redick could have a nice career. But he's not going to be the bigtime player some seem to think he will be.

There is a difference between being willing to trade someone and not seeing the worth in keeping them - from what I read on Laker forums, and the comments made by Laker staff, they were sorry to lose Maurice.

Re: your observation, Redick has played double digit minutes 9 times this season, getting into double figures in points 4 times, and averaged 7.1ppg. Hardly qualifies as any kind of trend.

The stats support SVGs reasons for leaving him out - Van Gundy has stated that he prefers to play Bogans and Evans over JJ because he doesn't need more offense, but help in other areas:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/sta ... 48&split=0

If you ignore Marcin Gortat, who has only played in five games, JJ is third in points per 48. He is also last in rebounds, last in steals, last in blocks and has the worst ast:to ratio of all Magic perimeter players.

OMPunk · Post #26 » by **OMPunk** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:53 pm

It's a catch 22.....JJ needs to be playing with a big PG, like Keyon. He also needs to be around some rebounders and at the very least a decent bigman.

For JJ to see significant time next season we have to get rid of Bogans..get a starting PF that moves Rashard to SF and Hedo to SG and move Mo to back up SF. So in a nutshell.....I can't wait to get my next team's JJ jersey.

maginno · Post #27 » by **maginno** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:04 am

MitchellUK wrote:Re: your observation, Redick has played double digit minutes 9 times this season, getting into double figures in points 4 times, and averaged 7.1ppg. Hardly qualifies as any kind of trend.

Well I wouldn't expect you to look more closely at the stats. You simply are not thorough enough to realize that most of his sub 10 point games came in december when he was clearly not looking for his shot and still trying to crack the rotation by working on his play without the ball. I wouldn't expect him to score above ten taking only two or three attempts or were you figuring he should get some 4 point plays?

Craig's point on this is right. JJ hasn't played enough for anyone to measure him pro or con to make claims that he isn't good because he doesn't fit in here. No one was saying anything about being an all star. He's a three point specialist and those can be used on a lot of teams that have better team defense.

MagicNolesFSU · Post #28 » by **MagicNolesFSU** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:11 am

I dont understand...Everyone bashes bogans ALL THE TIME and yet JJ cant beat him out to break the rotation? Their are reasons he is NOT playing but only the people that see him practice no those reasons. The same people trashing others because JJ hasnt played enough to prove hes a bust need to realize it works both ways. No1 has seen JJ enough to say he BELONGS in the NBA as well. Well except svg who has put him on the bench.

MitchellUK · Post #29 » by **MitchellUK** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:43 am

maginno wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Well I wouldn't expect you to look more closely at the stats. You simply are not thorough enough to realize that most of his sub 10 point games came in december when he was clearly not looking for his shot and still trying to crack the rotation by working on his play without the ball.

So if we're ignoring December, JJ's trend stretches to:

10 points in 16 minutes of a double digit defeat to Philadelphia
11 points in 12 minutes of a pointless game against the Hawks
18 points in 24 minutes of a pointless game against the Wizards.

You'll excuse me if I am still not the slightest bit impressed.

maginno wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
He's a three point specialist and those can be used on a lot of teams that have better team defense.

Orlando has 3 guys who shoot better than .400 from three, and another 5 guys who shoot in the mid to high .300s. They need defensive help, which is why Mo Evans, Keith Bogans and Keyon Dooling, who shoot .391, .361 and .344 respectively, and defend better, get minutes.

If the Magic develop to the stage of being a Boston type defensive team, maybe JJ's deficiencies in that area can be ignored. Or maybe he will end up on a team that does play better defense. Of course, Orlando is already ranked 6th in the league in defensive efficiency, and that still hasn't been enough for JJ to see playing time.

maginno · Post #30 » by **maginno** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:25 pm

Who cares whether you are impressed or not? He did it again last night and sent your argument down the tubes. You can make all kinds of excuses for why it doesn't count but its an nba team with NBA players on it and he shot 50% from the arc and from everywhere else on the floor. Whenever he's got sufficient time and actually looked for his shot he's been in double digits. The facts close your case. Try on some other point.

MitchellUK · Post #31 » by **MitchellUK** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:43 pm

maginno wrote:Who cares whether you are impressed or not? He did it again last night and sent your argument down the tubes. You can make all kinds of excuses for why it doesn't count but its an nba team with NBA players on it and he shot 50% from the arc and from everywhere else on the floor. Whenever he's got sufficient time and actually looked for his shot he's been in double digits. The facts close your case. Try on some other point.

You're actually trying to say that JJ scoring 18 points against a .500 team's benchwarmers is proof of his ability? What about the San Antonio game, where he came in - playing meaningful minutes in a meaningful game against a good team - and went 0-5 for 2 points and 1 turnover, and nothing else in 9 minutes?

I would say that neither game is particularly indicative of his ability. His actual NBA plateau falls somewhere in between, as the kind of guy who plays 15-20 minutes a night, adds some shooting potency and little else. But to actually claim that him dropping 18 on the likes of Nick Young and Roger Mason ends the discussion on his NBA future is completely nonsensical.

maginno · Post #32 » by **maginno** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:00 pm

MitchellUK wrote:e. But to actually claim that him dropping 18 on the likes of Nick Young and Roger Mason ends the discussion on his NBA future is completely nonsensical.

Completely nonsensical is you not knowing how to read and trying to claim I am making an argument anyone who can read would see I never made. Anyone can scroll up and read where I said more than once that based on the number of games played no one can say anything definitive about JJ's future. That goes for those who are pro and fellows like you who are con based on his experience on one NBA team that already has three point shooters and a poor team defense.

Facts are what you can't deal with. the guy that put him on the bench has already said he can play on offense but that he supplies what this particular team already has. So it doesn't say anything that a practical rookie (in playing time ) would be behind journeymen veterans. Nada. . You have no point on that . Its busted so like I said -

try another point .

The stats prove that when he is looking for his shot he makes the buckets. You got like one game where he goes 0-5 after sitting for weeks as your key stat and I have all the other games. I know it must be a little offsetting to have your stat line blown up by the last two games but buck up there. Stick around and you'll win one with time.

MitchellUK · Post #33 » by **MitchellUK** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:19 pm

Read my previous post again - I said that him scoring 18 was no indicator of his NBA future, just as the 0-5 against San Antonio wasn't either. But don't let that slow you down.

If you read back still further, you would notice that I have said more than once that I think JJ can have a solid NBA career, and have also acknowledged SVGs reasons for leaving him on the bench (top of page 3). But again, don't let that slow you down.

You claimed that

spinedoc · Post #34 » by **spinedoc** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:45 pm

MitchellUK wrote:Read my previous post again - I said that him scoring 18 was no indicator of his NBA future, just as the 0-5 against San Antonio wasn't either. But don't let that slow you down.

If you read back still further, you would notice that I have said more than once that I think JJ can have a solid NBA career, and have also acknowledged SVGs reasons for leaving him on the bench (top of page 3). But again, don't let that slow you down.

You claimed that