2022-2023 Magic Trade and Free Agency Idea Thread III

[cedric76]

I would say that Hawks f*** up by keeping their picks ( Cam Reddish selected 10, Okonwgu 6#) when they didn't need those guys and those picks had way more value as picks , before they turned into players.

Hawks on backs of Young, Collins ;Capella, Galo, Bogdan went to ECF.
Their lottery picks (Hunter, Okonwgu, Cam) are all mediocre role players that would have been way more valuable as trade assets than actual players. Hell, Cam is excellent example of player who's value nosedived over time to the point of no value left to be traded.

No they **** up because they decided to build around an overrated chucker

[Skybox]

Who do you think equals pick #6 value for a vet?

I'm leaning Wiggins at the moment, considering cap space too for GSW...otherwise, they'd have no interest
In another thread, Lavine came up...I'd only do it if we still had cap (and a wink wink) for FVV, I don't want Lavine without a strong vet presence at PG.
It's well documented that I'd like a vet PG...anyone you'd see out there for #6 that could run things?

What do you think?

Warriors will move Poole before Wiggins I think.

Pass on Lavine.

No doubt at all they'd prefer it but it's completely different math. I'm proposing Wiggins as GSW making an unfortunate decision to give up a guy they want to keep - under financial duress (and maybe a new GM with marching orders). There's no buyer's remorse on Wiggins' new deal...that's (nearly) a WCJ-level discount coming off a sensational performance in the playoffs. Honestly, my offer is light - I'd easily add the DEN pick.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Or maybe the Hawks should draft better.

It's not really objective scenario to win games, go for title, develop young players and give them proper repetition, usage and time to learn through mistakes.

For example Cam Reddish, he was BPA and player in position of need. They gave him starting job off gates, they played worst with him.
In sophmore year he was still starter, but they benefited a lot from his injury. They were 31-15 without him and 10-16 with him.
by year 3 they tapped out on that experiment and he was removed.

Kuminga/Wiseman/ Moody thing pretty much suggests that it's not possible to keep high winning percentage and play that many young , inexperienced, flat out bad players all at once without decline in quality of final outcome.

Well yeah, Golden State decided to pay Poole a ridiculous undeserving contract and trade back for Gary Payton.

Wiseman is a bust and Kuminga/Moody simply weren’t good enough to log real minutes. They used their vet deals on J. Green and Iguodala who wasn’t available.

That’s kinda what happens when you have the most expensive roster in history paying 5 guys huge salaries.

Where I’d meet you halfway is that the Warriors should have traded one or both of the Kuminga/Moody picks considering they were already contenders.

I fully believe Kuminga and Moody have been held back.

[Skybox]

It's not really objective scenario to win games, go for title, develop young players and give them proper repetition, usage and time to learn through mistakes.

For example Cam Reddish, he was BPA and player in position of need. They gave him starting job off gates, they played worst with him.
In sophmore year he was still starter, but they benefited a lot from his injury. They were 31-15 without him and 10-16 with him.
by year 3 they tapped out on that experiment and he was removed.

Kuminga/Wiseman/ Moody thing pretty much suggests that it's not possible to keep high winning percentage and play that many young , inexperienced, flat out bad players all at once without decline in quality of final outcome.

Well yeah, Golden State decided to pay Poole a ridiculous undeserving contract and trade back for Gary Payton.

Wiseman is a bust and Kuminga/Moody simply weren’t good enough to log real minutes. They used their vet deals on J. Green and Iguodala who wasn’t available.

That’s kinda what happens when you have the most expensive roster in history paying 5 guys huge salaries.

Where I’d meet you halfway is that the Warriors should have traded one or both of the Kuminga/Moody picks considering they were already contenders.

I fully believe Kuminga and Moody have been held back.

I agree...I have said that rookie Kuminga would have been our leading scorer - we'd be terrible, and he'd be inefficient, but he'd go crazy in a not-yet-winning environment. The humbling exposure to such a championship atmosphere might serve a team that picks him up in a "reverse-rebuild" fire sale.

[VFX]

It's not really objective scenario to win games, go for title, develop young players and give them proper repetition, usage and time to learn through mistakes.

For example Cam Reddish, he was BPA and player in position of need. They gave him starting job off gates, they played worst with him.
In sophmore year he was still starter, but they benefited a lot from his injury. They were 31-15 without him and 10-16 with him.
by year 3 they tapped out on that experiment and he was removed.

Kuminga/Wiseman/ Moody thing pretty much suggests that it's not possible to keep high winning percentage and play that many young , inexperienced, flat out bad players all at once without decline in quality of final outcome.

Well yeah, Golden State decided to pay Poole a ridiculous undeserving contract and trade back for Gary Payton.

Wiseman is a bust and Kuminga/Moody simply weren’t good enough to log real minutes. They used their vet deals on J. Green and Iguodala who wasn’t available.

That’s kinda what happens when you have the most expensive roster in history paying 5 guys huge salaries.

Where I’d meet you halfway is that the Warriors should have traded one or both of the Kuminga/Moody picks considering they were already contenders.

I fully believe Kuminga and Moody have been held back.

Yeah, I don’t believe they are busts. Warriors just couldn’t afford to develop them because their dynasty window is closing and they needed vets in the rotation as opposed to rookies.

I just don’t subscribe to the idea that guys on rookie deals are detrimental to your cap space if you have a roster worthy of competing.

Sure, it’s not ideal to have 5 guys on rookie deals needing the max, but that’s when decisions need to be made. OKC might see something like that. It just wasn’t the case with Golden State. They should have moved one of those picks because there were limited minutes.

If it proves anything it’s that your pick value depreciates if the guys you select have zero path towards minutes and can’t get on the floor. BPA be damned.

[drsd]

Are you guys aware that Wiggins' new contract (starting this year) averages $27m? ?

ANd-1

The NBA will average paying its players 9M per year. And this goes to over 10M per in 2-years time.

It's not like the 200th best player in the NBA will make 10M a year; all that 10M+ money goes to the top-100 players only (minus the bad contracts). This "only" 27M deal will probably barley be the 50th highest NBA player.

Rhetoric question: would one rather pay Wiggens 27M or VanVleet 35M? This is what new contacts will look like for basically similar contributions to a team.

[drsd]

Why don't you want Harris around? He is a good vet and is expiring (nice trade chip)

G-Harris is a totally ineffective player on offense and the worst scoring starting SGs in the league. This is objective. He has only 12 games last year scoring 10 points. He had more games scoring 5 or less than 10 or more. G-Harris was not good.

Kevon Harris had similar per36 numbers as G-Harris. That is not ok.

As for trade-chip, yes trade him.

[cedric76]

Why don't you want Harris around? He is a good vet and is expiring (nice trade chip)

G-Harris is a totally ineffective player on offense and the worst scoring starting SGs in the league. This is objective. He has only 12 games last year scoring 10 points. He had more games scoring 5 or less than 10 or more. G-Harris was not good.

Kevon Harris had similar per36 numbers as G-Harris. That is not ok.

As for trade-chip, yes trade him.

Doesn't mean we can't keep him till the trade deadline. Good vet présence, good D, good 3pt, good role player

[SOUL]

The way the CBA is set up makes it so drafting well is a bit of a gift and a curse. Could be in a Boston scenario where you're not sure you want to pay Jaylen Brown so much money with Tatum so that you can't fill out your team because of two people taking up so much of your cap.

You get some cost-controlled years at very cheap but you have to start paying guys if they hit. This also isn't like the NFL where you can cheaply replace vets because NFL rookies and primes start pretty young and then flame out before 30. In the NBA, usually your guys' primes aren't until after their first contracts.

[bigdogdylan5]

If we’re trading 6 and 11 I would hope we are getting something good back and honestly because 3 and 4 might be for sale I doubt we get good value for 6 and 11

[thelead]

The way the CBA is set up makes it so drafting well is a bit of a gift and a curse. Could be in a Boston scenario where you're not sure you want to pay Jaylen Brown so much money with Tatum so that you can't fill out your team because of two people taking up so much of your cap.

You get some cost-controlled years at very cheap but you have to start paying guys if they hit. This also isn't like the NFL where you can cheaply replace vets because NFL rookies and primes start pretty young and then flame out before 30. In the NBA, usually your guys' primes aren't until after their first contracts.

They’re going to need to adjust the way drafted player’s max contracts count towards the cap. You should be able to have a slight advantage of keeping your well-scouted player while not hindering you for being able to do your job well.

[cedric76]

If we can't trade for Simmons, OG or vassell on draft night I want us to sign Gary Trent jr in free agency.
A front loaded 75M over 4 yrs should be enough.

He is a perfect 4 th option, 2 way player, fit for our team

[whatisacenter]

Just over on GSW board and financial realities hitting hard, will new GM be directed to take some action, while still trying to contend for a few years? Let's help


GSW sends Wiggins and #19
ORL sends #6 , Gary Harris (and simply absorbs Wiggins' deal)

Fultz/Cole/Cason Wallace(#11)
Wiggins/Suggs
Franz/Houstan/Okeke
Paolo/Isaac/M. Wagner
WCJ/Lively (#19)/Goga

...depending on Cole's extension talks, Isaac's health, Wallace's likelihood of being a long-term starter, etc...I'd be looking at further trades, perhaps in-season. More cap space next summer, particularly if we have to waive Isaac.

I'm not against providing GSW some tax relief by taking on Wiggins (or potentially Poole), but I'm certainly not giving them the 6th overall pick to do it.

Dubs fan here, I can't see the Warriors salary dumping Wiggins at all. He is the second best player on the roster on the best value contract. Curry is untouchable and Wiggins is second on my list of Warriors to keep. Everyone else and the 19th pick should be available IMO but I think they want to keep the core together plus Wiggins/Looney.

Is WCJ in your long-term plans?

Would a Poole/Kuminga 19 get the Dubs close to WCJ/Fultz?

[eyriq]

Just over on GSW board and financial realities hitting hard, will new GM be directed to take some action, while still trying to contend for a few years? Let's help


GSW sends Wiggins and #19
ORL sends #6 , Gary Harris (and simply absorbs Wiggins' deal)

Fultz/Cole/Cason Wallace(#11)
Wiggins/Suggs
Franz/Houstan/Okeke
Paolo/Isaac/M. Wagner
WCJ/Lively (#19)/Goga

...depending on Cole's extension talks, Isaac's health, Wallace's likelihood of being a long-term starter, etc...I'd be looking at further trades, perhaps in-season. More cap space next summer, particularly if we have to waive Isaac.

I'm not against providing GSW some tax relief by taking on Wiggins (or potentially Poole), but I'm certainly not giving them the 6th overall pick to do it.

Dubs fan here, I can't see the Warriors salary dumping Wiggins at all. He is the second best player on the roster on the best value contract. Curry is untouchable and Wiggins is second on my list of Warriors to keep. Everyone else and the 19th pick should be available IMO but I think they want to keep the core together plus Wiggins/Looney.

Is WCJ in your long-term plans?

Would a Poole/Kuminga 19 get the Dubs close to WCJ/Fultz?

Hard to say what our long-term plans are outside of Franz and Paolo right now without getting playoff exposure first. That said, he's the only starter with a multi-year deal that isn't still on their rookie contract.

[pepe1991]

New CBA limits championship window for teams that are building from ground up.
For first few years your team is too young to win, and once they hit 6,7,8th year in nba, they become too expensive.

[The Effect]

Say we use 6 & 11 on a high upside player (thompson, whitmore) and a big (walker\hendricks\Lively), in my scenario im going ausar and Lively (im not a fan and dont want to take him, but i know we will likely take a big at some point)

How would you guys feel about us making a play for Bruce Brown from Denver if he opts out? I know its not the high profile FA SG many would want, but i think he would fit very nicely on this team. Good defender, good shooter, great athlete, experience on successful team etc
I know hes not exactly young, but hes still only 27 (come opening day), and has shown enough to be a starter to me

Go into next year with a rotation of something like

WCjr | lively
Paolo | Isaac (for about 7 games) | Mo
Franz | Chuma
Brown | Ausar/Suggs (in either order)
Fultz | Cole | Suggs

Fill out the rest of the roster with guys like Houstan, admiral and Bailey (my pick if we keep our 2nd rounder pick for once )

Sounds like a fun team to watch next year

Watch on YouTube

[eyriq]

New CBA limits championship window for teams that are building from ground up.
For first few years your team is too young to win, and once they hit 6,7,8th year in nba, they become too expensive.

What's the right approach to team building under the new CBA?

[pepe1991]

New CBA limits championship window for teams that are building from ground up.
For first few years your team is too young to win, and once they hit 6,7,8th year in nba, they become too expensive.

What's the right approach to team building under the new CBA?

1 mega star
+ 1 above average fringe allstar
+ bunch of role players

sounds like finanicially stable team


Almost no teams with 2 massive contracts can sustain ability to contend

[eyriq]

New CBA limits championship window for teams that are building from ground up.
For first few years your team is too young to win, and once they hit 6,7,8th year in nba, they become too expensive.

What's the right approach to team building under the new CBA?

1 mega star
+ 1 above average fringe allstar
+ bunch of role players

sounds like finanicially stable team


Almost no teams with 2 massive contracts can sustain ability to contend

Makes sense. Thanks!

This sounds like it impacts all team building strategies equally, whether building through the draft, free agency, or trades.

WeHam's organic build approach does run the risk of turning out like you say, with years of ramping up into playoff contention but being too young to contend, and then once in contention facing difficult financial choices and unravelling.

We have to hope that we have a top 5 player in Paolo.

Step 1. Identify your batman
Step 2. Identify your robin
Step 3. Identify two quality starters
Step 4. Identify two key role players
Step 5. Round out your rotation
Step 6. Round out your bench

[Skybox]

Just over on GSW board and financial realities hitting hard, will new GM be directed to take some action, while still trying to contend for a few years? Let's help


GSW sends Wiggins and #19
ORL sends #6 , Gary Harris (and simply absorbs Wiggins' deal)

Fultz/Cole/Cason Wallace(#11)
Wiggins/Suggs
Franz/Houstan/Okeke
Paolo/Isaac/M. Wagner
WCJ/Lively (#19)/Goga

...depending on Cole's extension talks, Isaac's health, Wallace's likelihood of being a long-term starter, etc...I'd be looking at further trades, perhaps in-season. More cap space next summer, particularly if we have to waive Isaac.

I'm not against providing GSW some tax relief by taking on Wiggins (or potentially Poole), but I'm certainly not giving them the 6th overall pick to do it.

Dubs fan here, I can't see the Warriors salary dumping Wiggins at all. He is the second best player on the roster on the best value contract. Curry is untouchable and Wiggins is second on my list of Warriors to keep. Everyone else and the 19th pick should be available IMO but I think they want to keep the core together plus Wiggins/Looney.

Is WCJ in your long-term plans?

Would a Poole/Kuminga 19 get the Dubs close to WCJ/Fultz?

I’d do that