2024-2025 Regular Season Game 79: Atlanta Hawks (37-41) at Orlando Magic (38-40) - 7pm

[drsd]

One thing of note: with this Win the Magic is guaranteed a winning home record this season.

[zaymon]

I watched after having some time to cool off.
Still have similar feelings even after our win streak.
Paolo is playing a lot better but i still wont eat crow.
Its against bad teams. He is surrounded by our best players and shooters when Franz sits. He misses a bunch of reads, has tunnel vision. His effort is more off than on. Its painful to hear his mother needs to tell him to rebound.....
At least we can try to assemble a good team without him losing trade value.
Denver pick could be very useful. Another underrated move by Weltman.

[thelead]

NBA drafts are such a crapshoot. Sometimes you get the #1 pick and get a player like Paolo and others you get Risacher. I like Risacher but I bet the Hawks would trade him without thought for a real shot at Flagg.

[jezzerinho]

It is so binary how - when we move the ball properly - the Magic scores enough to win or actually wins.

When the ball sticks, we become really easy to defend. Last night, it was moving pretty well and they created enough low risk shots to score a pretty respectable points total in today's NBA. Wasn't perfect - and Atlanta is a weird mix of amazing defenders and total non defenders - but it was enough. Surely inside the team they know the ball HAS to keep moving.

[I Rasharted]

Let's be real, non of this really matters.

Watch on YouTube

[Skybox]

Just read the last 3 pages and my head is spinning. Even Barbies world is not as pink.

This best young core of all time is not even top 3 (5?) young core this season.
Hell even when you take out the obvious young teams, even the Cavs have 3 at least fringe Allstars in the age range of our core who won at our last year's win rate even before Mitchell was there when healthy.

Rockets just won 52( hell, can be 55 ) games with:
Amen Thompson - 22 years old
Segun - 22 years old
Green -23 years old
Tari- 23 years old
Jabari -21 years old
Whitmore- 20 y.o.

So, best core in history?

maybe best young coach is the difference in HOU...plus, they have even younger Reed Sheperd - at worst, a pretty attractive trade chip. Also, a bunch of picks. They are in really good shape. But, imo, the thing that got them moving is having a veteran two-way PG that keeps them all in the right place at the right time. Even if he's gone this offseason, FVV's "overpay" for two years will have massive impact on their development. Young players don't develop by themselves - good coach, good vets, system that puts them in position to succeed and play quality basketball. Maybe limit the scope of their roles while they grow and gain confidence. Opposite of "theory" being thrown around that forcing Paolo & Franz to swim upstream on every possession and succeed IN SPITE of their teammates' inadequacy and poor fit is good for their growth. Bad practice makes for bad habits.

It's much more realistic to start with a more limiting role and then adding superstar iso stuff than to think you'll just abandon bad habits later when proper team is assembled.

Only criticism of HOU is that nearly ALL of their team will be hitting extensions at the same time and tough decisions will have to be made...I expect some kind of consolidation trade this summer that moves them into contention NEXT season.

[Skybox]

Wcj showing why he is going however.

Big that can switch like him are rare so trading him would be a mistake

You're right - He's maddening because he is REALLY good at times.

Still very young.
There IS a floor-spacer, to some extent, in there somewhere.
There IS a guy who should average 10+ rebounds per game - he's done it before. Nobody on the team comes down with big, man-sized rebounds in traffic like him.
You're right about his perimeter switching - it's exceptional and rare for a guy so physically strong.
He doesn't meet people at the rim on the Top 5 plays, but he does defend very well by maintaining position.
He (usually) has good hands and can finish drop offs at the rim.

I just wish he'd do it more often and not miss so many games - he's always wrapped in tape, rubbing his frequently poked eyes, etc. He's actually been in uniform a lot this year. His extension is a nightmare based on his early season play, but it's actually fine - if he plays to 75%+ of his capability nightly.

By all accounts, he's one of the locker room leaders and favorites among the team. I trade him 10x a day here but, upon reflection, he could be/should be a solid piece of our core going forward if he can show consistency. He's also a guy that could easily come off the bench at 4 as well as 5...so I wouldn't pass on an opportunity to clean out 2 or 3 less useful bigs, upgrade starting C and give Wendell consistent minutes off the bench at multiple spots.

Jury's definitely still out for me...but he could be a really solid player and he already is on his good days. Just need to be able to count on good days. Playoffs will tell a lot.

[drsd]

Solid level-2 Happiness level for me for this game.

[eyriq]

Meh. 7 of the 10 games were against teams under .500.

Washington twice, Charlotte once and San Antonio once. Four of the wins were against teams very clearly tanking.

And when they played Sacramento, the Kings were in the midst of losing 7 of 8, their worst stretch of basketball all year.

Lakers game was a quality win for sure. Hawks too I guess although they had a huge rest advantage.

Since the all-star break they are 13th in net rating, 21st in offense and 4th on defense.

11 games against teams over .500 since the ASB and they’re 3-8.

12 games against teams under .500 since the ASB and they’re 9-3.

You mean to tell me we aren’t contenders? Shocking news. Fire Mosley?

[JoshuaPotter]

Since the all-star break they are 13th in net rating, 21st in offense and 4th on defense.

11 games against teams over .500 since the ASB and they’re 3-8.

12 games against teams under .500 since the ASB and they’re 9-3.

You mean to tell me we aren’t contenders? Shocking news. Fire Mosley?

P+F + anything that equals an rough NBA point guard = .500 team. MUST I SPELL IT?

No, this is purely roster construction before firing Mose. You can't make so many non scorers and shooters rise collectively all at once to career high PPGs to make us competitive.

To me, reality is simple, we need a Suggs level defender and offensive player at the bare minimum. AND an actual NBA point guard.

[eyriq]

The fundamental problem is expectations. Many fans expected this team to contend this season, earn home-court advantage, and reach the second round of the playoffs.

But is that reasonable? Our core this season is 22, 23, and 23 years old—all on rookie-scale contracts. What are reasonable expectations for a core like that? Put differently: controlling for the age of a team's core, what is the expected win total?

The reality is that teams with young cores are usually bad. Most organic rebuilds fail. Most young cores break up before ever achieving meaningful success.

This young core is different. It won 47 games while all members were 22 or younger, and it's stacking up “youngest ever” accolades. Then injuries hit, and suddenly fans are losing their minds—calling to trade Paolo and Franz, to fire Mosley and Weltman—all because they're failing to control for age when setting expectations.

And when I point this out, I’m accused of cherry-picking and being disingenuous. LMAO.

[Def Swami]

Kudos to Corey Joseph man... the calming force out there.

A game changer for our season, and huge indictment on this roster that we have to rely on Cory Joseph this much. Same thing with Joe Ingles last year.

[VFX]

It is so binary how - when we move the ball properly - the Magic scores enough to win or actually wins.

When the ball sticks, we become really easy to defend. Last night, it was moving pretty well and they created enough low risk shots to score a pretty respectable points total in today's NBA. Wasn't perfect - and Atlanta is a weird mix of amazing defenders and total non defenders - but it was enough. Surely inside the team they know the ball HAS to keep moving.

Absolutely.

For the long stretches of time Paolo will make the right decisions and score pretty easily when the ball is moving. Then, for no reason at all, he will have like 5-6 possessions in a row of just forced terrible attempts at the rim. This lets Atlanta come back and hang around obviously.

This game was the perfect example of this.

This team needs someone to set the tempo on offense with ball movement. Paolo and Franz aren’t those guys and Corey Joseph can’t be their best option.

[JoshuaPotter]

It is so binary how - when we move the ball properly - the Magic scores enough to win or actually wins.

When the ball sticks, we become really easy to defend. Last night, it was moving pretty well and they created enough low risk shots to score a pretty respectable points total in today's NBA. Wasn't perfect - and Atlanta is a weird mix of amazing defenders and total non defenders - but it was enough. Surely inside the team they know the ball HAS to keep moving.

Absolutely.

For the long stretches of time Paolo will make the right decisions and score pretty easily when the ball is moving. Then, for no reason at all, he will have like 5-6 possessions in a row of just forced terrible attempts at the rim. This lets Atlanta come back and hang around obviously.

This game was the perfect example of this.

This team needs someone to set the tempo on offense with ball movement. Paolo ad. Franz aren’t those guys and Corey Joseph can’t be their best option.

Like the written down answer is so gosh darn simple. Get a PG out there who sets the table and allows everyone to get into a rhythm then profit off of it the rest of the game. This keeps Paolo to those 5-6 possessions because I doubt he will ever be able to change until he hits his prime and the game comes to him more naturally. (If that ever happens.)

Maybe in a short sample Suggs could do this through volume 3pt shooting. As Corey Joseph isn't exactly the usage % monster. Otherwise, you really need to look at getting another Ingles / Corey type and fast.

[JF5]

Kudos to Corey Joseph man... the calming force out there.

A game changer for our season, and huge indictment on this roster that we have to rely on Cory Joseph this much. Same thing with Joe Ingles last year.

I don't think it's much of an indictment. This team is a young team. They're not supposed to have it all figured out at this point. That's why it's important to have playable vet presence to help guide them when constructing the roster going forward.

[zaymon]

Kudos to Corey Joseph man... the calming force out there.

A game changer for our season, and huge indictment on this roster that we have to rely on Cory Joseph this much. Same thing with Joe Ingles last year.

I don't think it's much of an indictment. This team is a young team. They're not supposed to have it all figured out at this point. That's why it's important to have playable vet presence to help guide them when constructing the roster going forward.

Problem is when there is narration that only best players should handle the ball and more team oriented players like Gary Harris and KCP are frozen out of the offense.
Some of it is being young of course, but who will handle them the lesson ?
Mosley struggles with it, and Cory Joseph doesnt have the authority. Joe was good but too old. We wont have enough money to bring someone like that with coming extensions.
I am clear and stable with my view.

[VFX]

Kudos to Corey Joseph man... the calming force out there.

A game changer for our season, and huge indictment on this roster that we have to rely on Cory Joseph this much. Same thing with Joe Ingles last year.

I don't think it's much of an indictment. This team is a young team. They're not supposed to have it all figured out at this point. That's why it's important to have playable vet presence to help guide them when constructing the roster going forward.

Missing the point.

They aren’t saying the current players “are supposed to have it all figured out”. Has nothing to do with the team being young.

Weltman should have had a point guard on the roster so players like Ingles and Joseph weren’t the only options. “Vet presence” from Corey Joseph (a reserve) shouldn’t be replacing what they should have had 3 seasons ago instead of the redemption arc Fultz experience.

[eyriq]

If you just knew the average age of a team's core you'd have expected Orlando to win ~29 games last season. We won 47. That's also why everyone celebrated 34 wins the season before.

Weltman said we were ahead of schedule. That's why.

[JF5]

A game changer for our season, and huge indictment on this roster that we have to rely on Cory Joseph this much. Same thing with Joe Ingles last year.

I don't think it's much of an indictment. This team is a young team. They're not supposed to have it all figured out at this point. That's why it's important to have playable vet presence to help guide them when constructing the roster going forward.

Problem is when there is narration that only best players should handle the ball and more team oriented players like Gary Harris and KCP are frozen out of the offense.
Some of it is being young of course, but who will handle them the lesson ?
Mosley struggles with it, and Cory Joseph doesnt have the authority. Joe was good but too old. We wont have enough money to bring someone like that with coming extensions.
I am clear and stable with my view.

That's the thing though... The best players have the ball in their hands 80-90 percent of the time. If your best player isn't able to somewhat playmake or involve others in today's NBA he'll be relegated as a 3rd option most of the time in a winning situation. Because it shows he cannot make the team around him better.

I do want this team to find a PG and they need one.
but it's like that PG is not going to be handling the ball as much with Paolo and Franz on the court. Those guys are still going to have to figure out eventually how to not turnover the ball so much.

[Rainwater]

NBA drafts are such a crapshoot. Sometimes you get the #1 pick and get a player like Paolo and others you get Risacher. I like Risacher but I bet the Hawks would trade him without thought for a real shot at Flagg.

NBA drafts are typically not crapshoots. You may get guys like Wiggins and Risacher but the top of the draft, the top 5, typically turn out to be pretty good players. I just think last year’s draft was just incredibly weak.