The Tobias Harris Situation

[MagicFan101]

Harris is not worth close to 15 a year. The corpse of Matt Barnes is better and can be had for a tenth the price. Magic are smart to not match.

really, thats why Barnes cant stay on a team? he also isnt getting better, isnt 22.

To be fair, Harris is 22 and could very well be headed to his 3rd team where both changes came by choice of the owning team...

[floppymoose]

Harris is not worth close to 15 a year. The corpse of Matt Barnes is better and can be had for a tenth the price. Magic are smart to not match.

really, thats why Barnes cant stay on a team? he also isnt getting better, isnt 22.

Clearly Tobias is still young and could improve. The question is do you want to spend 15 million a year to find out?

[tiderulz]

If Orlando offered $9M per year and refused to budge then yes, this looks bad for them but we do not know what happened.

We don't know which side ended negotiations.

We don't know what Tobias was asking for.

We don't know anything really.

You have assumed to know the answers to all of these questions but you don't know the answers and neither does anyone else here.

Harris is a nice player, but a 6th man isn't worth a max contract. Hopefully we know when to cut our losses and move on.

interesting other teams like Detroit, Toronto, LA, possibly NY, do not consider him a 6th man. Its mostly just Magic fans

We only know that these teams are rumored to be interested in paying him a near max contract. We don't know what their plans for him would be.

NY can spend as much as they wish. Luxury tax fees do not scare them. Would Harris start next to Melo or be the mini-Melo the man the 2nd team?

Wtf is Boston doing? They aren't tanking like Philly but are collecting assets in no obvious team related manner.

Detroit has a super star big man in the paint. That is a location where a forward like Harris makes a lot of sense. That could be a very good spot for him with newly acquired Ilysova playing the 6th man role I pegged Harris for here.

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

[mojosodope]

Still not sure what to feel. I don't think Tobias sucks at all, but I don't think losing him would be the worst thing either. If he doesn't get max I think we should match, if it's to the point where its like "ehh.." then I'm okay with losing him.

This is pretty much how I feel. I just don't see Harris as a guy that has a big impact on w/l record. With or without him, I see us right around 35 wins.

there is no one on our roster right now that has an impact on our W/L yet.

actually neon posted these stats a while back

Harris only had 23 games where he took 16 or more FGA's we were 12-11 in those games.

In games where Tobias took 18 or more FGA we were 6-5.


True attempts are FGA+(FTA/2).
In games where Harris attempted 18 or more we were 12-8.
In games where Harris had 20 or more true attempts we were 8-5.


When we actually used him...our record was significantly better

[tiderulz]

Harris is not worth close to 15 a year. The corpse of Matt Barnes is better and can be had for a tenth the price. Magic are smart to not match.

really, thats why Barnes cant stay on a team? he also isnt getting better, isnt 22.

Clearly Tobias is still young and could improve. The question is do you want to spend 15 million a year to find out?

he has shown himself to be a top-6ish SF this year, while only getting better. Yeah, i think im willing to keep him.

[floppymoose]

Now you've really got me curious. Who are SF's 1-20 in your opinion?

I'll throw out a list of how I see the SF's next year. this is rough and I'm not sure about how some of them will bounce back from injuries etc:

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Luol Deng
Carmelo Anthony
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Chandler Parsons
Tony Allen
Trevor Ariza
Danilo Gallinari
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nicolas Batum
Matt Barnes
Mike Dunleavy
Robert Covington
Al-Farouq Aminu
Joe Johnson
Thaddeus Young
DeMarre Carroll
Andrew Wiggins
Harrison Barnes
Paul Pierce
Rudy Gay
Jabari Parker
PJ Tucker
Tobias Harris
Terrence Ross
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Green

[MagicFan101]

interesting other teams like Detroit, Toronto, LA, possibly NY, do not consider him a 6th man. Its mostly just Magic fans

We only know that these teams are rumored to be interested in paying him a near max contract. We don't know what their plans for him would be.

NY can spend as much as they wish. Luxury tax fees do not scare them. Would Harris start next to Melo or be the mini-Melo the man the 2nd team?

Wtf is Boston doing? They aren't tanking like Philly but are collecting assets in no obvious team related manner.

Detroit has a super star big man in the paint. That is a location where a forward like Harris makes a lot of sense. That could be a very good spot for him with newly acquired Ilysova playing the 6th man role I pegged Harris for here.

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

Golden State brought in Iggy at $12M per. That worked out. David Lee was paid $15M on the bench but they brought him in originally with higher hopes.

No, I'm sure these teams have high hopes for Harris and even I think he would flourish in the right role on a strong team but he is a role player and NOT a franchise player to build around.

Detroit has a great foundation to place Harris alongside. He could be a very nice starter for them.

NY and Boston make less sense, but overspending on a talented young kid who might eventually be better suited for a 6th man spot doesn't worry those big market GMs as much.

[tooler]

Now you've really got me curious. Who are SF's 1-20 in your opinion?

I'll throw out a list of how I see the SF's next year. this is rough and I'm not sure about how some of them will bounce back from injuries etc:

This just became a huge waste of time.

[tiderulz]

We only know that these teams are rumored to be interested in paying him a near max contract. We don't know what their plans for him would be.

NY can spend as much as they wish. Luxury tax fees do not scare them. Would Harris start next to Melo or be the mini-Melo the man the 2nd team?

Wtf is Boston doing? They aren't tanking like Philly but are collecting assets in no obvious team related manner.

Detroit has a super star big man in the paint. That is a location where a forward like Harris makes a lot of sense. That could be a very good spot for him with newly acquired Ilysova playing the 6th man role I pegged Harris for here.

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

Golden State brought in Iggy at $12M per. That worked out. David Lee was paid $15M on the bench but they brought him in originally with higher hopes.

No, I'm sure these teams have high hopes for Harris and even I think he would flourish in the right role on a strong team but he is a role player and NOT a franchise player to build around.

Detroit has a great foundation to place Harris alongside. He could be a very nice starter for them.

NY and Boston make less sense, but overspending on a talented young kid who might eventually be better suited for a 6th man spot doesn't worry those big market GMs as much.

Iggy wasnt a max. Lee was a starter until he got hurt. in fact, Lee was the starter just last year.

[Viper1500]

This team needs scoring, he's perfect on this team, hopefully he can play some pf this year. Also, hezonja is no guarantee.. Would hate to find that out after losing Harris


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

[tiderulz]

Now you've really got me curious. Who are SF's 1-20 in your opinion?

I'll throw out a list of how I see the SF's next year. this is rough and I'm not sure about how some of them will bounce back from injuries etc:

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Luol Deng
Carmelo Anthony
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Chandler Parsons
Tony Allen
Trevor Ariza
Danilo Gallinari
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nicolas Batum
Matt Barnes
Mike Dunleavy
Robert Covington
Al-Farouq Aminu
Joe Johnson
Thaddeus Young
DeMarre Carroll
Andrew Wiggins
Harrison Barnes
Paul Pierce
Rudy Gay
Jabari Parker
PJ Tucker
Tobias Harris
Terrence Ross
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Green

seriously? Harris behind Covington, Aminu, Barnes, Allen, Dunleavy, Tucker.

if that is your ranking, not even worth my time

[MagicFan101]

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

Golden State brought in Iggy at $12M per. That worked out. David Lee was paid $15M on the bench but they brought him in originally with higher hopes.

No, I'm sure these teams have high hopes for Harris and even I think he would flourish in the right role on a strong team but he is a role player and NOT a franchise player to build around.

Detroit has a great foundation to place Harris alongside. He could be a very nice starter for them.

NY and Boston make less sense, but overspending on a talented young kid who might eventually be better suited for a 6th man spot doesn't worry those big market GMs as much.

Iggy wasnt a max. Lee was a starter until he got hurt. in fact, Lee was the starter just last year.

Exactly.

Teams are rumored to have interest in a NEAR max deal for Harris. As he has fewer than 6 years in the league that number is a bit less than a true max.

Iggy was paid $12M specifically for a backup role.

David Lee was paid a big deal and eventually moved to the bench where he was a better fit despite his salary.

So what I am suggesting does happen. Sure these teams have hopes of him becoming a star in the starting lineup but even if that doesn't happen, it can be a success story.

[OrlandoDream]

Thank you for the memories Tobias, but I see why Rob is hesitant to throw you a max. He had some great games with us, but the bottom line is that with you in our starting lineup for 3 seasons, we have yet to surpass the 25 win mark. He may become an all star and even a even better scorer one day, but its not like we would be losing Lebron, Durant, or a Paul George. Tobias is a good player, but he is replaceable. If we are going to throw a max around, Id rather wait and shoot for KD(unlikely) or another high caliber FA.

[floppymoose]

if that is your ranking, not even worth my time

So you aren't going to list out your top 20 or so? I don't see how he can possibly be 6th. I'm wondering who you have behind him 7-20.

I provided my list as a sign of good faith. I'm not going to criticize your list without providing one of my own.

[ezzzp]

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

Yes, because a max contract (15.8) in 2015 is not a max contract in year two because of the massive cap increase.

The salary cap is going to be dramatically increasing in one year (from 67m to 89m) and in two years (from 89m to 110m) and those estimates where before the massive Nike/NBA apparel deal were factored in.

You can't think of Harris getting a max contract (15.8m) in the same terms as prior years because of this. 15.8m will proportion down (% of team total cap) to a very reasonable deal approximately in the same range as Vuc's.

[Magic#1]

Now you've really got me curious. Who are SF's 1-20 in your opinion?

I'll throw out a list of how I see the SF's next year. this is rough and I'm not sure about how some of them will bounce back from injuries etc:

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Kawhi Leonard
Paul George
Gordon Hayward
Luol Deng
Carmelo Anthony
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Chandler Parsons
Tony Allen
Trevor Ariza
Danilo Gallinari
Giannis Antetokounmpo
Nicolas Batum
Matt Barnes
Mike Dunleavy
Robert Covington
Al-Farouq Aminu
Joe Johnson
Thaddeus Young
DeMarre Carroll
Andrew Wiggins
Harrison Barnes
Paul Pierce
Rudy Gay
Jabari Parker
PJ Tucker
Tobias Harris
Terrence Ross
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Green

Do you really believe that PJ Tucker, Barnes, Aminu, Covington, Barnes are better than Tobias? Tobias si so far ahead of those others. Of course he's not close to the same level as LeBron, Durant, Melo or a healthy George, but he's in the same conversation of Hayward and Deng. He's a 22-year old player who just averaged 17 and 6 and wasn't at his best most of the year. He can shoot and his defense is adequate. Tobias isn't a max level player, but he is way, way better than where you listed him.

[tiderulz]

Golden State brought in Iggy at $12M per. That worked out. David Lee was paid $15M on the bench but they brought him in originally with higher hopes.

No, I'm sure these teams have high hopes for Harris and even I think he would flourish in the right role on a strong team but he is a role player and NOT a franchise player to build around.

Detroit has a great foundation to place Harris alongside. He could be a very nice starter for them.

NY and Boston make less sense, but overspending on a talented young kid who might eventually be better suited for a 6th man spot doesn't worry those big market GMs as much.

Iggy wasnt a max. Lee was a starter until he got hurt. in fact, Lee was the starter just last year.

Exactly.

Teams are rumored to have interest in a NEAR max deal for Harris. As he has fewer than 6 years in the league that number is a bit less than a true max.

Iggy was paid $12M specifically for a backup role.

David Lee was paid a big deal and eventually moved to the bench where he was a better fit despite his salary.

So what I am suggesting does happen. Sure these teams have hopes of him becoming a star in the starting lineup but even if that doesn't happen, it can be a success story.

im not sure what you are arguing. You say that he is a 6th man, but other teams dont view him as a 6th man and that you wont pay someone near max to be a 6th man.

you have me lost now

[tiderulz]

Thank you for the memories Tobias, but I see why Rob is hesitant to throw you a max. He had some great games with us, but the bottom line is that with you in our starting lineup for 3 seasons, we have yet to surpass the 25 win mark. He may become an all star and even a even better scorer one day, but its not like we would be losing Lebron, Durant, or a Paul George. Tobias is a good player, but he is replaceable. If we are going to throw a max around, Id rather wait and shoot for KD(unlikely) or another high caliber FA.

so are we saying by to Vuc too? he has been in our starting lineup longer than Harris and we have yet to surpass the 25 win mark.

[tiderulz]

if that is your ranking, not even worth my time

So you aren't going to list out your top 20 or so? I don't see how he can possibly be 6th. I'm wondering who you have behind him 7-20.

I provided my list as a sign of good faith. I'm not going to criticize your list without providing one of my own.

let me re-phrase, he was about 6ish last year.

James
Durant
Kawhi
Rudy
Hayward
Harris

that is about how i saw it last year.

[tiderulz]

cmon man, do you think any team is going to pay max to a player for a 6th man role?

Yes, because a max contract (15.8) in 2015 is not a max contract in year two because of the massive cap increase.

The salary cap is going to be dramatically increasing in one year (from 67m to 89m) and in two years (from 89m to 110m) and those estimates where before the massive Nike/NBA apparel deal were factored in.

You can't think of Harris getting a max contract (15.8m) in the same terms as prior years because of this. 15.8m will proportion down (% of team total cap) to a very reasonable deal approximately in the same range as Vuc's.

i repeat, no one is paying him a max contract now for a 6th man role. you wont see it, not gonna happen