Official 2020 NBA Draft Thread

[pepe1991]

This is a fallacy that I wish people would stop using as a “reason” against attempting to get better odds. This is a down year without Isaac regardless.

That comes down to talent. Period.

People arguing the spurs have “great culture” and a hunger for “winning” must also not believe they finished with a worse record than Orlando this season. Why is that? Because they lack talent that they previously had. Not because of some perceived culture, HOF coach, better scouting, and superior development program.

This roster has been running the same offense for nearly a decade. If it’s time to take a step back, then so be it.

What probability?

Worst team in nba has 14% chance landing top pick, team with 6th worst record and probably 10 wins more -has 9%

Team with the worst record has 40,1% chance drafting within top 3 pick.
6th worst team has 27,6%

Team with the worst record has whooping 47,9% chance at drafting -5th.
Team with 6th worst record will probably draft 7th or 8th. Or win lottery. Their odds of winning are almost the same.

Pelicans won Zion Williams draft with 8th worst record but once again, it's not suprising if you know 8th worst record has 6% chance to draft first, compared to the worst team that has just 14%.

You CAN'T PLOT path toward high pick and view it as strategy. It's like taking million dollar studen loan because you belive you will win lottery.

Teams don't move young great players if they are not landing superstars. In general teams don't move great young players all together. Magic any trade involving Vuc, Evan or Gordon will land them bunch of unproven ( or proven to be bad) young players or expiring contracts. But it's baffling to assume Magic will do anything with cap space with 25 wins.

What i find so confusing about this board this year is why people want to move up in draft if they still have no clue who to draft. What's so bad at staying 15? What's there at 2# that won't be at 8,9, 10 or 15? So desparate to draft Lamelo Ball?

Magic have Okeke as rookie already.
Why not just do potential Tony Snell and Pistons pick for Gordon and Magic pick swap to move few spots? You can still draft Nesmith, Haliburton or Vassell.

I flat out don't understand fascination with 2# pick if you know you will have to take some dead cap like Wiggins to get there.

I'm 100% confident that if Darious Garland, with 5 college games played and that stat line was this year aveliable on draft- guy would go 1# . Not to mention i still think he has bigger chance at becomming above average PG than most of 2020 draftee PGs.

So your takeaways-

1- Some players are busts
2- The draft lottery is a lottery
3- You disagree with trading up in a draft because you personally dislike the options...

Ok.

All draft prospects are unproven. I’d rather our FO making a calculated move for a player they believe in, rather than let the draft 100% dictate their options like they’ve done every year so far.

One of Edwards, Hayes, Haliburton, or Deni will become a good to great nba player. History tells us those odds have a high probability of hitting. I’d be ok with Orlando selecting whoever they deem the best option should they believe trading up is a wise decision. There are even players at 15 I like in that spot, but I think they have a lesser chance at panning out.

To the topic at hand... No, I don’t see a downside to Orlando trading vets, in a projected down year without Isaac, to land better talent. I would rather they do it now while the time makes sense.

1. Most players are not worth tanking/sucking on purpose ( call it however you want )
2. Fixed lottery makes it almost impossible to rebuild via draft
3. Nothing personal. Just fundemntally flawed prospects in poor draft

What i find most interesting is this funny idea that Magic will trade Vuc and/or Gordon, let Evan walk, move up in 2020 draft, find some unnamed star that, i repeated it 50 times now- nobody can actually handpick and name, tank in 2021, win lottery, and get their Lebron there. Still acting like transending star in 2021 exist ( but there is 6'7 non shooter projected to go 1# ).

And we will all have good old collective amnesia and act like Magic are missing Kevin Durant, not 12 ppg Jonathan Isaac. And he will back and jump in his superstar role.

I just can't wait until November 18 pass so i don't need to hear about epic Lamelo Ball / insert Vassell, Haliburton, Avdija name here * trades that probably won't happen.

What i belive here is a case is half of the board are pushing their "trade Vuc and Evan "agenda through "moving up in draft ".
You guys don't actually want to move up in draft to get ANYBODY YOU LIKE, you just want to see Vuc, Evan ( and some of you Gordon) gone.

[pepe1991]

Hawks are latest team that is shopping their pick. Want impact player right away. Go figure.

[Skin]

1. Most players are not worth tanking/sucking on purpose ( call it however you want )
2. Fixed lottery makes it almost impossible to rebuild via draft
3. Nothing personal. Just fundemntally flawed prospects in poor draft

What i find most interesting is this funny idea that Magic will trade Vuc and/or Gordon, let Evan walk, move up in 2020 draft, find some unnamed star that, i repeated it 50 times now- nobody can actually handpick and name, tank in 2021, win lottery, and get their Lebron there. Still acting like transending star in 2021 exist ( but there is 6'7 non shooter projected to go 1# ).

And we will all have good old collective amnesia and act like Magic are missing Kevin Durant, not 12 ppg Jonathan Isaac. And he will back and jump in his superstar role.

I just can't wait until November 18 pass so i don't need to hear about epic Lamelo Ball / insert Vassell, Haliburton, Avdija name here * trades that probably won't happen.

What i belive here is a case is half of the board are pushing their "trade Vuc and Evan "agenda through "moving up in draft ".
You guys don't actually want to move up in draft to get ANYBODY YOU LIKE, you just want to see Vuc, Evan ( and some of you Gordon) gone.

I wanna trade up for Edwards if he's available in the Top 3 range.

I wanna trade up for Nesmith or Vassell if they're available in the 7-10 range.

I wanna keep the 15th pick.

Fit's what I've been saying we need to do:

1) Get rid of Henny's guys. Need to align team into WeHam's vision. We need to judge them on their own merits. Stop using Henny's players as a crutch.
2) Get players who are NBA ready and can step in on Day 1 and contribute in some way.
3) Focus on player development over winning.

[Skin]

Hawks are latest team that is shopping their pick. Want impact player right away. Go figure.

I wonder if they could be asking for that if they had a pick outside the lottery instead of the 6th overall pick. Whaddaya say to that Mr. "Lottery picks suck"?

[pepe1991]

1. Most players are not worth tanking/sucking on purpose ( call it however you want )
2. Fixed lottery makes it almost impossible to rebuild via draft
3. Nothing personal. Just fundemntally flawed prospects in poor draft

What i find most interesting is this funny idea that Magic will trade Vuc and/or Gordon, let Evan walk, move up in 2020 draft, find some unnamed star that, i repeated it 50 times now- nobody can actually handpick and name, tank in 2021, win lottery, and get their Lebron there. Still acting like transending star in 2021 exist ( but there is 6'7 non shooter projected to go 1# ).

And we will all have good old collective amnesia and act like Magic are missing Kevin Durant, not 12 ppg Jonathan Isaac. And he will back and jump in his superstar role.

I just can't wait until November 18 pass so i don't need to hear about epic Lamelo Ball / insert Vassell, Haliburton, Avdija name here * trades that probably won't happen.

What i belive here is a case is half of the board are pushing their "trade Vuc and Evan "agenda through "moving up in draft ".
You guys don't actually want to move up in draft to get ANYBODY YOU LIKE, you just want to see Vuc, Evan ( and some of you Gordon) gone.

I wanna trade up for Edwards if he's available in the Top 3 range.

I wanna trade up for Nesmith or Vassell if they're available in the 7-10 range.

I wanna keep the 15th pick.

Fit's what I've been saying we need to do:

1) Get rid of Henny's guys. Need to align team into WeHam's vision. We need to judge them on their own merits. Stop using Henny's players as a crutch.
2) Get players who are NBA ready and can step in on Day 1 and contribute in some way.
3) Focus on player development over winning.

I have said that i would take Nesmith, but i don't see any reasons to be moving more than some fringe asset and 15 pick to get into 8-10 range in order to secure that selection.

[pepe1991]

Hawks are latest team that is shopping their pick. Want impact player right away. Go figure.

I wonder if they could be asking for that if they had a pick outside the lottery instead of the 6th overall pick. Whaddaya say to that Mr. "Lottery picks suck"?

Imo magic are in perfect position sitting at 15# range.
Very low pressure and expetations, still plenty of good options, very cheap base salary for pick.

That's why most teams in lottery- want to get out of it, or move toward 10-14 range.

Hawks,according to Ringer

The Hawks are shopping their first-round pick and intend to push for the playoffs, according to multiple league sources. Expect them to also be aggressive in free agency; the franchise wants to win now and capitalize on Trae Young’s emergence.

Isn't this safe assumption that they value actual player more than pick?

[Bensational]

Hawks are latest team that is shopping their pick. Want impact player right away. Go figure.

I wonder if they could be asking for that if they had a pick outside the lottery instead of the 6th overall pick. Whaddaya say to that Mr. "Lottery picks suck"?

Imo magic are in perfect position sitting at 15# range.
Very low pressure and expetations, still plenty of good options, very cheap base salary for pick.

That's why most teams in lottery- want to get out of it, or move toward 10-14 range.

Hawks,according to Ringer

The Hawks are shopping their first-round pick and intend to push for the playoffs, according to multiple league sources. Expect them to also be aggressive in free agency; the franchise wants to win now and capitalize on Trae Young’s emergence.

Isn't this safe assumption that they value actual player more than pick?

I agree, we should capitalise on Trae Young's emergence as well...

(Also, personally, I think they should take Haliburton as he would complete that backcourt)

[pepe1991]

I wonder if they could be asking for that if they had a pick outside the lottery instead of the 6th overall pick. Whaddaya say to that Mr. "Lottery picks suck"?

Imo magic are in perfect position sitting at 15# range.
Very low pressure and expetations, still plenty of good options, very cheap base salary for pick.

That's why most teams in lottery- want to get out of it, or move toward 10-14 range.

Hawks,according to Ringer

The Hawks are shopping their first-round pick and intend to push for the playoffs, according to multiple league sources. Expect them to also be aggressive in free agency; the franchise wants to win now and capitalize on Trae Young’s emergence.

Isn't this safe assumption that they value actual player more than pick?

I agree, we should capitalise on Trae Young's emergence as well...

(Also, personally, I think they should take Haliburton as he would complete that backcourt)

People have said it last year when they drafted with 4th overall pick DeAndre Hunter and with 10th pick Cam Reddish. Their PG,SG,SF and PF positions were set.
But as usual, "sure things" in draft don't exist, so cruel reality is that both Cam Reddish and Hunter flat out sucked in rookie year.

Reddish gets some benefit of a doubt, guy is 21. But Hunter turns 23 within 2 weeks. Both can't really score with efficiency, are not ballhandlers, passers not scoring treats, and they are not even good shooters. And whole Hawks team is defensive disaster.

I remember posters drooling over Cam Reddish last year, new Jimmy Butler,new Kawhi Leonard... His rookie year went as him being definition of negative contributor on the floor. Guy even has negative win share. That's such hard thing to do, that even worst busts don't reach that. I don't think anybody since Bennett did it. Good company to be compared to.

[Skin]

1. Most players are not worth tanking/sucking on purpose ( call it however you want )
2. Fixed lottery makes it almost impossible to rebuild via draft
3. Nothing personal. Just fundemntally flawed prospects in poor draft

What i find most interesting is this funny idea that Magic will trade Vuc and/or Gordon, let Evan walk, move up in 2020 draft, find some unnamed star that, i repeated it 50 times now- nobody can actually handpick and name, tank in 2021, win lottery, and get their Lebron there. Still acting like transending star in 2021 exist ( but there is 6'7 non shooter projected to go 1# ).

And we will all have good old collective amnesia and act like Magic are missing Kevin Durant, not 12 ppg Jonathan Isaac. And he will back and jump in his superstar role.

I just can't wait until November 18 pass so i don't need to hear about epic Lamelo Ball / insert Vassell, Haliburton, Avdija name here * trades that probably won't happen.

What i belive here is a case is half of the board are pushing their "trade Vuc and Evan "agenda through "moving up in draft ".
You guys don't actually want to move up in draft to get ANYBODY YOU LIKE, you just want to see Vuc, Evan ( and some of you Gordon) gone.

I wanna trade up for Edwards if he's available in the Top 3 range.

I wanna trade up for Nesmith or Vassell if they're available in the 7-10 range.

I wanna keep the 15th pick.

Fit's what I've been saying we need to do:

1) Get rid of Henny's guys. Need to align team into WeHam's vision. We need to judge them on their own merits. Stop using Henny's players as a crutch.
2) Get players who are NBA ready and can step in on Day 1 and contribute in some way.
3) Focus on player development over winning.

I have said that i would take Nesmith, but i don't see any reasons to be moving more than some fringe asset and 15 pick to get into 8-10 range in order to secure that selection.

Gordon and Fournier ARE fringe assets.

[Skin]

Hawks are latest team that is shopping their pick. Want impact player right away. Go figure.

I wonder if they could be asking for that if they had a pick outside the lottery instead of the 6th overall pick. Whaddaya say to that Mr. "Lottery picks suck"?

Imo magic are in perfect position sitting at 15# range.
Very low pressure and expetations, still plenty of good options, very cheap base salary for pick.

That's why most teams in lottery- want to get out of it, or move toward 10-14 range.

Hawks,according to Ringer

The Hawks are shopping their first-round pick and intend to push for the playoffs, according to multiple league sources. Expect them to also be aggressive in free agency; the franchise wants to win now and capitalize on Trae Young’s emergence.

Isn't this safe assumption that they value actual player more than pick?

It's safe to say that they already have a lot of youth that they are trying to develop and they don't necessarily want to overcrowd and create an unhealthy environment that would stunt playing time needed for growth. Ie. Dipo vs Fournier. Tobias vs Gordon vs Hezonja.

That said, they are not giving us that pick for any of our available players who apparently you are afraid to give up. What does it say about that.... that they are not "actual players"? Lol

[Skin]

Imo magic are in perfect position sitting at 15# range.
Very low pressure and expetations, still plenty of good options, very cheap base salary for pick.

That's why most teams in lottery- want to get out of it, or move toward 10-14 range.

Hawks,according to Ringer


Isn't this safe assumption that they value actual player more than pick?

I agree, we should capitalise on Trae Young's emergence as well...

(Also, personally, I think they should take Haliburton as he would complete that backcourt)

People have said it last year when they drafted with 4th overall pick DeAndre Hunter and with 10th pick Cam Reddish. Their PG,SG,SF and PF positions were set.
But as usual, "sure things" in draft don't exist, so cruel reality is that both Cam Reddish and Hunter flat out sucked in rookie year.

Reddish gets some benefit of a doubt, guy is 21. But Hunter turns 23 within 2 weeks. Both can't really score with efficiency, are not ballhandlers, passers not scoring treats, and they are not even good shooters. And whole Hawks team is defensive disaster.

I remember posters drooling over Cam Reddish last year, new Jimmy Butler,new Kawhi Leonard... His rookie year went as him being definition of negative contributor on the floor. Guy even has negative win share. That's such hard thing to do, that even worst busts don't reach that. I don't think anybody since Bennett did it. Good company to be compared to.

Once again you're too premature to judge. Too early to call them busts. They actually had very good rookie seasons and Reddish especially turned a corner after the all star break. Gimme those 2 guys over Fournier and Ross any day.

[Knightro]

John Hollinger Mock Draft

1. Minnesota – LaMelo Ball
2. Golden State – James Wiseman
3. Charlotte – Anthony Edwards
4. Chicago – Tyrese Haliburton
5. Cleveland – Obi Toppin
6. Atlanta – Deni Avdija
7. Detroit – Patrick Williams
8. New York – Tyrese Maxey
9. Washington – Onyeka Okongwu
10. Phoenix – Killian Hayes
11. San Antonio – Isaac Okoro
12. Sacramento – Devin Vassell
13. New Orleans – Kira Lewis
14. Boston – Saddiq Bey
15. Orlando – Aaron Nesmith, SF, Vanderbilt

The history of this front office can be described in one word: Length. Since their days in Milwaukee, the team of Jeff Weltman and John Hammond has been obsessed with long limbs in the draft. Sometimes it gets them Giannis Antetokounmpo, and other times it gets them Melvin Frazier, but the track record here is really consistent.

That has everyone’s eyes cast toward Jaden McDaniels, the lanky young forward from Washington. The one caveat here is that McDaniels’ arms aren’t technically that long, but otherwise he fits the mold of a raw, oversized combo forward who this front office has picked.

The other issue, though, is how many players like this can you really have? I mean, if you spent the last couple years adding Jonathan Isaac, Al-Farouq Aminu and Chuma Okeke to a team that already had Aaron Gordon, are you really going to add another dude like this? I kind of doubt it.

That’s why I say Nesmith is the pick here. Surprise — he has long arms! Nesmith measured a 6-10 wingspan on his 6-5 frame. But he’s also a fantastic shooter who can play both wing positions, and this Orlando team is just desperate for shooting and spacing.

One note: The Magic are almost certainly looking closely at the point guard market. Markelle Fultz is locked into a backcourt slot, but he’s big enough to guard 2s and it’s still an open question whether he can ever be a high-end starter on a good team. If Kira Lewis falls here, I have to think the Magic pounce.

https://theathletic.com/2188482/2020/11/10/2020-nba-mock-draft-whos-going-where-in-the-first-round/ ($)

[Knightro]

Hayes, Okoro, Vassell and Lewis going 10-13 would be obnoxious and frustrating.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Hayes, Okoro, Vassell and Lewis going 10-13 would be obnoxious and frustrating.

Maxey going 8 is wild, I know he killed his Klutch Sports "Pro Day Workout" but damn NY will find a way to f that up

[Skin]

Hayes, Okoro, Vassell and Lewis going 10-13 would be obnoxious and frustrating.

Maxey going 8 is wild, I know he killed his Klutch Sports "Pro Day Workout" but damn NY will find a way to f that up

Patrick Williams at 7 and Saddiq Bey in the lottery are also question marks. I would love Nesmith to fall in our laps at but I don't think he'll be there.

[Nyce_1]

Hayes, Okoro, Vassell and Lewis going 10-13 would be obnoxious and frustrating.

you'd have to think if either of them are within reach, they'd make a serious play to move up and get that player.

[Ducklett]

If we somehow came away with Kira Lewis and Nesmith I would hold a parade for this disaster of a front office.

[dsg2021]

This is why I love the heck outta Nesmith. He literally meets WeHam's length criteria for most drafts. On top of being a historic shooter with very translatable NBA skills in sharpshooting. Plus a dash of shown potential in literally every other area in both offense and defense. Again, I'ma go with what another media source said; Nesmith's easily gone before #12. If it is cheap to trade up to #10, then why not.

Still high on Hayes, Haliburton, Edward too. Very spicy picks. But the trade vibes are feeling too high-cost, as per usual. You'd have to be Luka Doncic-sure on a guy who doesn't have a Luka Doncic-record.

Also, I'm watching All Star game highlights from 2019, and Vooch is an All Star player in it. Did anybody else briefly forget that like me? Lowkey, I think it's a mistake letting him go. I think he has 5 more seasons of high-caliber play, which is also plenty of time for Bamba to unleash the beast, and be the Dwight Howard (Swole Bamba on 2+ 3PT and BLKS) who replaces a Marcin Gortat (older Vooch) in 3-4 years.

[Bensational]

I would be just as happy with Nesmith as with most prospects in our range. I'd be hoping for a Duncan Robinson/Joe Harris type of impact guy out of him probably from early on, hoping he can add something of a dribble game and then just tighten his defense. He's ready to go at 50% on 8 3fgas a game (even if only 14 games).

He might not have the same star allure cos he's not breaking guys down with his dribble, but we've all seen the impact of Ross' hot hand, or Robinson's hot hand. And, Nesmith could be an instant replacement for Ross or Fournier, if either had to be moved.

I'd love to get another pick to take a punt on another prospect but not sure we'd be able to do so without giving up the #15. Adding another PG to replace DJ would be nice, and outside of the lottery names, there's still Flynn, Mannion Bolmaro, Maledon, and Cole floating around to look at.

[Knightro]

Nesmith is just meh to me.

He's a fantastic shooter, both static and off movement, which can be valuable.

I just don't see much else there. I don't see a good athlete. I don't see a player with the vision to make passes when he's forced to put it on the floor.

Defensively, I don't think he's terrible fundamentally, he's just not quick or explosive and he doesn't have great instincts to make up for that lack of athleticism.

Seems like if everything goes right he's Duncan Robinson. Otherwise he's Terrence Ross without the athleticism.