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Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2081 » by j-ragg » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:39 pm

89Magicfan wrote:I get that with Barnes but I don’t understand why one would be against Barnes and for Kuminga. Form? That’s all I see that he has over Barnes.

Less to do with form and more to do with offensive potential. I think if Kuminga is developed correctly he could be a 20+ ppg wing scorer with good defense. His shot looks translatable, he has some 1 on 1 ability. I don’t see those things so much with Scottie. His positives are nice, but less important on my hierarchy of ‘things we need from a wing’.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2082 » by 89Magicfan » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:47 pm

j-ragg wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I get that with Barnes but I don’t understand why one would be against Barnes and for Kuminga. Form? That’s all I see that he has over Barnes.

Less to do with form and more to do with offensive potential. I think if Kuminga is developed correctly he could be a 20+ ppg wing scorer with good defense. His shot looks translatable, he has some 1 on 1 ability. I don’t see those things so much with Scottie. His positives are nice, but less important on my hierarchy of ‘things we need from a wing’.



I’m not seeing the one on one skill. He mainly gets by on his athleticism. His post up game seems to be his strong skill. Maybe he can evolve that. A step back. Neither which are efficient though but has the moves nonetheless. Other than that...Doesn’t have advanced ball handling nor possess much of anything off the dribble to break his defender down. He also makes some terrible decisions with the ball when passing.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2083 » by tiderulz » Fri Jul 2, 2021 5:59 pm

j-ragg wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I get that with Barnes but I don’t understand why one would be against Barnes and for Kuminga. Form? That’s all I see that he has over Barnes.

Less to do with form and more to do with offensive potential. I think if Kuminga is developed correctly he could be a 20+ ppg wing scorer with good defense. His shot looks translatable, he has some 1 on 1 ability. I don’t see those things so much with Scottie. His positives are nice, but less important on my hierarchy of ‘things we need from a wing’.

whens the last time we really developed an offensive player?
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2084 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:17 pm

j-ragg wrote:Less to do with form and more to do with offensive potential. I think if Kuminga is developed correctly he could be a 20+ ppg wing scorer with good defense. His shot looks translatable, he has some 1 on 1 ability. I don’t see those things so much with Scottie. His positives are nice, but less important on my hierarchy of ‘things we need from a wing’.

I'm far from being in love with either, but If skillset-wise they are even, or damn close, I think character issues with Kuminga would lead me towards siding with Barnes. I was even listening to a podcast with Russilo, && he was talking about a discussion he had with Jarrett Jack (who played on that Ignite team) where Jack was clearly way higher on Green and how eager he was to learn, over Kuminga.

A quick Youtube search will show Kuminga jawing with an out-of-the-league Michael Beasley and getting scored on at will too. Not to mention all the other stuff surrounding his time with Ignite and how he basically quit on the team.

Barnes is at least 100% going to be the consummate teammate who has an infectious personality that others love being around. Maybe Kumingas red flags are being overstated a bit, but when I'm looking at drafting a project forward/big in the top 5 I'd prefer to have them at least check most of the boxes character-wise and to be a player I know is going to be engaged and focused on improving.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2085 » by Magic Mops » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:23 pm





Magic get Kuminga and Wagner
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2086 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:33 pm

Magic Mops wrote:



Magic get Kuminga and Wagner

This would be an absolute fever dream scenario for me. The scary thing is that it doesn't seem unlikely either.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2087 » by Xatticus » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:39 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:
Xatticus wrote:I'd be perfectly happy with Sengun at 5.

What makes you so high on him? Just out of curiosity. He doesn't seem like the type of player/skillset that you usually gravitate towards.

I haven't done much digging into him, but just at face value his post centric offensive game, lack of floor spacing, lack of ability to cover in space, lack of athleticism, && him possibly being a tweener at the next level doesn't skyrocket him up my big board.

His ceiling seems to be Sabonis, which is no knock. I just don't see that as a high-impact player.


He's just a really good basketball player. His skill level is exceptionally high for an 18 year old. Make no mistake, Sabonis would be a very good outcome from the 5th pick, but that's not his ceiling. His upside is more like Jokic. He's really good in the post, but he is so much more than that. He is a terrific offensive rebounder. He runs the floor hard. His finishing is really good. He is going to be able to shoot sooner rather than later. He gets to the line a ton. He can handle the ball in the open floor. He can attack a big off the dribble. He is an advanced passer in pretty much every situation.

Compare him to Bouknight...

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Which is the better prospect? Sengun played against much tougher competition as well. I believe we are really overthinking this. It's fine to have preferences, but you can't let that obscure the obvious.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2088 » by basketballRob » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:53 pm

Xatticus wrote:
PrimeThyme wrote:
Xatticus wrote:I'd be perfectly happy with Sengun at 5.

What makes you so high on him? Just out of curiosity. He doesn't seem like the type of player/skillset that you usually gravitate towards.

I haven't done much digging into him, but just at face value his post centric offensive game, lack of floor spacing, lack of ability to cover in space, lack of athleticism, && him possibly being a tweener at the next level doesn't skyrocket him up my big board.

His ceiling seems to be Sabonis, which is no knock. I just don't see that as a high-impact player.


He's just a really good basketball player. His skill level is exceptionally high for an 18 year old. Make no mistake, Sabonis would be a very good outcome from the 5th pick, but that's not his ceiling. His upside is more like Jokic. He's really good in the post, but he is so much more than that. He is a terrific offensive rebounder. He runs the floor hard. His finishing is really good. He is going to be able to shoot sooner rather than later. He gets to the line a ton. He can handle the ball in the open floor. He can attack a big off the dribble. He is an advanced passer in pretty much every situation.

Compare him to Bouknight...

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Which is the better prospect? Sengun played against much tougher competition as well. I believe we are really overthinking this. It's fine to have preferences, but you can't let that obscure the obvious.
Not saying Bouknight will be bad, but he played a weak college schedule.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2089 » by MagicFan101 » Fri Jul 2, 2021 6:54 pm

If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2090 » by basketballRob » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:00 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.
It would depend if the wanted Barnes or Kuminga. My dream scenario is to end up with Keon and Wagner.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2091 » by Skybox » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:01 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.


Or, just trade #33 for Kanter :roll:
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2092 » by Xatticus » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:08 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.


Because of OKC.

Much has been made of GS not wanting to use those two picks, but I'm skeptical. All the world thinks they are going to move Wiseman, but the owner, I believe, has said it isn't happening. I'm not convinced that they aren't already planning for life after Steph, even though everyone else thinks they should do everything they can to make another run at a title. They could split the difference and go with something like Mitchell and Wagner with their picks. Those two could help them win games now, wouldn't cost much money, and would provide more long-term value than simply using the picks to try to flip Wiggins for a third star. I don't think they'd take Sengun after taking Wiseman, but I don't know that for certain.

I'd have to have very good intel on OKC's plans before I would commit to that though.

My ideal outcome is still Suggs and Sengun at 5 and 8 respectively, but if you end up taking Sengun at 5, I want someone that can run our offense. We'd have too many talented bigs to waste development time with poor pick-and-roll ball handlers. If we took Barnes at 5, then he is my point guard.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2093 » by KillMonger » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:10 pm

89Magicfan wrote:
j-ragg wrote:
89Magicfan wrote:I get that with Barnes but I don’t understand why one would be against Barnes and for Kuminga. Form? That’s all I see that he has over Barnes.

Less to do with form and more to do with offensive potential. I think if Kuminga is developed correctly he could be a 20+ ppg wing scorer with good defense. His shot looks translatable, he has some 1 on 1 ability. I don’t see those things so much with Scottie. His positives are nice, but less important on my hierarchy of ‘things we need from a wing’.



I’m not seeing the one on one skill. He mainly gets by on his athleticism. His post up game seems to be his strong skill. Maybe he can evolve that. A step back. Neither which are efficient though but has the moves nonetheless. Other than that...Doesn’t have advanced ball handling nor possess much of anything off the dribble to break his defender down. He also makes some terrible decisions with the ball when passing.

he has shot creation ability...people just tend to think that shot creation is just on the perimeter...olajuwon was as good a shot creator as anyone but he wasn't crossing people up on the perimeter....If you really did watch the games and not the highlights then you would see that while Kuminga didn't shoot good percentages there wasn't anyone that was able to effectively stop him from doing whatever he wanted to do....whether that was a face-up jumper...back to the basket....turn-around jumpers....step backs.....dream shakes....up and unders with either hand....great footwork for his age....it's all there to see if you really did watch the games....I also didn't see any motor issues, what i did see was him being lost and caught out of position quite a bit....You have all that and i didn't even mention his athleticism yet...It just bothers me a bit that anyone can watch the games and think he's just a run and jump athlete, it makes me wonder if they know anything about basketball(in general)

Whether it's kuminga or barnes they both have a long way to go, and honestly in my opinion so does everyone in the top 5 minus cade
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2094 » by Magic Mops » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:14 pm

basketballRob wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.
It would depend if the wanted Barnes or Kuminga. My dream scenario is to end up with Keon and Wagner.

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Really?
Interesting to hear!
Why you choose Keon and Franz?

Franz is pretty underrated!
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2095 » by PrimeThyme » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:16 pm

Xatticus wrote:Which is the better prospect? Sengun played against much tougher competition as well. I believe we are really overthinking this. It's fine to have preferences, but you can't let that obscure the obvious.

I suppose I just haven't seen the same level of passing from Sengun that I saw from Jokic.

He's definitely a functional/effective passer, similar to Vuc, but Jokic is a once-in-a-generation type of playmaker from the 5 spot which is what separates him from others and makes him the impact MVP caliber player he is. Most of the deep scouting reports I've read/watched make the distinction that he's more of the Sabonis/Vuc archetype than the Jokic one.

I'd need to be fully convinced that he's in that Jokic archetype over the Sabonis/Vuc, because if I have to build a playoff team around a Vuc/Sabonis or a Beal/Booker I'm choosing the latter every time.

It certainly is a preference thing, though. I prefer a player with Bouknights skillset, particularly in the playoffs, over a player with Sengun's. However, I'd be banking on Bouknight developing into something resembling a Booker over a Lavine (though Lavine has improved in recent years).

Bouknight's FTR and feel as a scorer, gives me hope that he will be able to get to the line at a high rate and become an all-around scorer like a Booker or Beal (though he struggled to get to the line early). I can see the argument and trepidation regarding him as a prospect, however. He's no sure bet. But it's a skill set I'd prefer to make a bet on over a Kuminga or Barnes.

The jury is still out for me on Sengun. I'm going to do a deeper dive into him leading up to the draft. You've sparked my interest.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2096 » by basketballRob » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:21 pm

Magic Mops wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.
It would depend if the wanted Barnes or Kuminga. My dream scenario is to end up with Keon and Wagner.

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Really?
Interesting to hear!
Why you choose Keon and Franz?

Franz is pretty underrated!
They fit team personality wise and what they do on the court. I think they are both high motor guys that will maximize the potential they have.

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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2097 » by nicnac215 » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:42 pm

MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.

I would like that trade if that means we can get Sengun, (Moody/Bouknight), and Tre Mann.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2098 » by tiderulz » Fri Jul 2, 2021 7:43 pm

Magic Mops wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:If you guys are so high on Sengun and we are convinced that we just can’t get a star at #5 then why not just offer #5 to GS for both of their picks?

We would have #7,8 and 14 to work with.

I’m pretty sure we could get Bouk + Sengun and a nice prospect at #14 as well.


Outside of people telling me we can flip our crap for Beal or other unrealistic nonsense, I’m honestly open to all ideas at this point.
It would depend if the wanted Barnes or Kuminga. My dream scenario is to end up with Keon and Wagner.

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Really?
Interesting to hear!
Why you choose Keon and Franz?

Franz is pretty underrated!

not sure Franz is underrated, but i view him as a glue guy. He doesnt do anything elite or spectacular. Good passer, okay but not great shooter, good defender, no first step, below average athleticism. Great glue guy, but someone you would expect to go early teens
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2099 » by VFX » Fri Jul 2, 2021 8:01 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Magic Mops wrote:https://sircharlesincharge.com/2021/07/01/nba-mock-draft-post-lottery-magic/amp/6/

5.Orlando Magic – Alperen Sengun, F/C, Besiktas

It is complete rebuild mode for the Magic after trading Nikola Vucevic, Aaron Gordon, Khem Birch, and Evan Fournier.

While Sengun probably will not end up being a franchise player, he has the potential to give the Magic some much-needed floor spacing and 3-point shooting that should help the Magic tremendously.

Given that the Magic currently lack either of these things on their current roster, adding someone like Sengun will benefit their current crop of players.

The Basketball Super League, which is where Sengun originates from, is arguably the most competitive in all of Europe right now, with 30 former NBA players currently competing in it. 
This includes players such as Kyle O’Quinn, Jan Vesely and Nando De Colo among others.

At just 18 years old, Sengun saw himself being crowned as the Super League’s most valuable player.

Do not let the 19 percent 3-point shooting on just 21 attempts fool you – Sengun will be able to score at all three levels at some point during his NBA career.

If Sengun can shoot 80 percent from the free-throw line, he should be able to score from the mid-range easily and stretch out his range even farther than that at some point.



Read on Twitter




Plus, when he needs to, Sengun can get down low and score from the post, which has primarily been his offensive game thus far in his professional basketball career (68% shooting from two-point range on 10 shots last season).

The important thing will be for the Magic to make sure that trying to score with his back to the basket becomes a complementary part of Sengun’s game rather than its focal point.



Read on Twitter




8. Orlando Magic – Jalen Johnson, F, Duke University

The second of two top 10 picks for the Magic, courtesy of the Nikola Vucevic trade with the Chicago Bulls.

General managers are going to question Johnson’s commitment after leaving both IMG Academy and Duke early, but Johnson has special tools.

Johnson’s size, speed and athleticism make him worth a gamble for a franchise desperate for star players.







On the basketball court, it was an up-and-down season in the limited time that Johnson was a member of Mike Krzyzewski’s squad.

According to ShotQuality, Johnson’s points per possessions rank landed him in the 52nd percentile, which is slightly above-average.

Additionally, Johnson had a 28 percent good possession rate versus a 26 percent bad possession rate while dishing out just 3.3 passing points per game, so the lack of playmaking may make teams skeptical about a guy who already struggles to be effective in the halfcourt.

Johnson did most of his damage on the offensive end around the paint, shooting 64 percent on close 2’s (41-for-64), and while he did not take a lot of them, Johnson did shoot 44 percent (8-for-18) from 3-point range.

Johnson’s shooting from every other part of the floor did not bode much for confidence. Twenty-nine percent on long-range 2’s (8-for-27) and a pretty abysmal 63 percent from the free-throw line (24-for-38).
Again though, his sample size at Duke is pretty narrow, so it is hard to tell how accurate these numbers translate to an 82-game season.

Again, what intrigues scouts about Johnson is not necessarily his halfcourt offensive skill but his ability to handle a basketball and push the offense down the floor in transition.


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if the Magic take Sungun with #5, im done with this team. and the fact that he says Sengun can give 3 pt shooting and spacing, he lost any credibility and obviously doesnt watch him play since he does not shoot 3 ptrs. Kanter, Zubac, Bam, Ayton, Holmes, all decent FT shooters that are bad 3 pt shooters.


If they took Sengun at 5 I’d become a fan of the Atlanta Hawks instead.
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Re: Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2 

Post#2100 » by bigdogdylan5 » Fri Jul 2, 2021 8:02 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:The more I watch Josh Giddey, the more I fall in love. Such a feel for the game offensively. Especially in the PnR, which is a valuable skill to have in today's NBA. If we go project forward at 5 (Kuminga/Barnes) I'm praying we go high ceiling offense at 8 (Giddey/Bouknight).

IMO it wouldn’t be too smart to draft Barnes and Giddey you can’t play them both together and their skill sets are similar and shooting is a question for both. I think you do somethink like Bouknight and Giddey or Barnes and Moody
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