Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

Post #221 » by **SOUL** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:21 pm

I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

nymets1 · Post #222 » by **nymets1** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:23 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:

Read on Twitter

so they knew it was a reach but was soooo in love they couldn't resist..

Well if they were hoping Okeke was going to be there at #46, That wasn't going to happen. Okeke would have been gone late 1st round or very early 2nd round at the latest. They could have took Nassir Little at #16 and try to trade up to also get Okeke but that would be very risky if they wanted Okeke so bad.

Patrick1978 · Post #223 » by **Patrick1978** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:24 pm

NEM wrote:I get the pick. We have a need there off the bench. Weltman has said repeatedly that you can’t have enough guys that can go out there and guard multiple positions, and chuma does that. He can guard 2-4, even 1-5 on occasion. He doesn’t have many holes in his game and is very polished. Considering he’s only 20 years old, this was a good to great pick IMO. None of those wings screamed starter to me. He could eventually be a starter, should we decide to move in from AG. The roster is more versatile with him. I can envision him playing stretches with AG AND JI, as well as with just one of them. Prototypical player for today’s league.

Let’s see what we do in FA. We have the full MLE to play with at the very least, which starts at about 9M.

I fully agree with you.

VFX · Post #224 » by **VFX** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:30 pm

SOUL wrote:I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

I’m not against the pick though... I think the pick is pretty solid actually for a 3-D wing at #16 that could be a really good role player and possible rotational guy. I’m even happy with the timeline as you’ve stated.

That being said, the back court is the worst in the league with proficient players on the board that were heralded as “bpa”. Healthy, with opportunity available, and ready to contribute that add to the extreme lack of playmaking. That is really my only gripe. They’d take an injured guy that might not play this season as a decent backup, rather than address the glaring issues at hand on rookie scale deals.. that’s the sticking point.

We should stop putting any expectations on a Fultz whatsoever. He’s a complete non factor in any decisions until we see him actually contributing.

spinedoc · Post #225 » by **spinedoc** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:33 pm

SOUL wrote:I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

For me there was a whole grouping of players that would have been acceptable. This was unambiguously well outside that, it makes it very easy to scrutinize because of that. To me, its the same old people who go along with everything this franchise does. Its healthy to be skeptical, they just keep making it easy for some of us. :wink:

basketballRob · Post #226 » by **basketballRob** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:35 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
SOUL wrote:I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

I’m not against the pick though... I think the pick is pretty solid actually for a 3-D wing at #16 that could be a really good role player and possible rotational guy. I’m even happy with the timeline as you’ve stated.

That being said, the back court is the worst in the league with proficient players on the board that were heralded as “bpa”. Healthy, with opportunity available, and ready to contribute that add to the extreme lack of playmaking. That is really my only gripe. They’d rather take an injured guy that might not play this season as a decent backup, rather than address the glaring issues at hand on rookie scale deals.. that’s the sticking point.

We should stop putting any expectations on a Fultz whatsoever. He’s a complete non factor in any decisions until we see him actually contributing.

We can bring Jonathan Simmons back to be our third string PG.

ezzzp · Post #227 » by **ezzzp** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:36 pm

ACL recovery is 9 to 12 months. Chuma had surgery on April 2nd. So we'll see him sometime between early December and early March.

PrimeThyme · Post #228 » by **PrimeThyme** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:37 pm

SOUL wrote:I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

I will say this, if the plan is to let Vuc/Ross walk this offseason and as a result we get a top 10 pick I will feel a lot differently about this selection. The 2020 draft is loaded with guard talent. So if Fultz/Bamba come back and are integrated into the lineup next year then next offseason with Mosgov/DJ coming off the books and a top 10 pick in a guard-heavy draft could make for a very interesting summer.

Right now there are too many questions for me to see that playing out though. I'm still terrified that Vuc gets a 4 year deal of 20 plus mill. I also am still weary about the Fultz situation.

FWIW, NAW wasn't ever going to be a transcendent pick. I think he just provides a skillset (shotmaking/Playmaking) at a position of need that Chuma doesn't. I think they have similar ceilings as well.

jayrehme · Post #229 » by **jayrehme** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:41 pm

Nyce_1 wrote:
BlueBalls wrote:
jayrehme wrote:I haven't seen this comparison yet... but, Draymond Green?

You haven't seen it because it doesn't work

i laughed.

I fail to see the humor. His measurements and description coming in sound very similar to Draymond Green.

magicman112 · Post #230 » by **magicman112** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:45 pm

ezzzp wrote:ACL recovery is 9 to 12 months. Chuma had surgery on April 2nd. So we'll see him sometime between early December and early March.

He's walking under his own power with a brace on there was footage on twitter of him meeting someone at Amway.

spinedoc · Post #231 » by **spinedoc** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:46 pm

By the way, when is a 6-7 230lb pf ever a top ten pick?

Patrick1978 · Post #232 » by **Patrick1978** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:46 pm

Read on Twitter

Post #233 » by **SOUL** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:47 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
SOUL wrote:I mean it's the same people being negative to the draft picks though. Every year just go back and see the threads and see who is angry/arguing with people. It's the same.

I'm surprised MagicMatic is so against it. If anything, this sort of lines up with the timeline of what you want the team to do (if it anticipates one of Vuc, Ross, or both), I think next season may be a step back year with Fultz getting a lot of playing time, Bamba as well, and then Chuma being redshirted or brought along very slowly and then searching for that guard prospect we so desperately need.

I guess the only reason is if you see NAW as some transcendent pick that we needed to take. I personally see him as like a Courtney Lee, E'Twaun Moore type. Aka I'm not tripping about it.

I’m not against the pick though... I think the pick is pretty solid actually for a 3-D wing at #16 that could be a really good role player and possible rotational guy. I’m even happy with the timeline as you’ve stated.

That being said, the back court is the worst in the league with proficient players on the board that were heralded as “bpa”. Healthy, with opportunity available, and ready to contribute that add to the extreme lack of playmaking. That is really my only gripe. They’d take an injured guy that might not play this season as a decent backup, rather than address the glaring issues at hand on rookie scale deals.. that’s the sticking point.

We should stop putting any expectations on a Fultz whatsoever. He’s a complete non factor in any decisions until we see him actually contributing.

I guess I'm just looking at it from a standpoint of if a team isn't enamored with the guard options available, I'm glad they took someone who they thought would be the best pick for our team. On the other hand, I agree that it may not matter all of these guys that have great, translatable skills and great defense if we can't find someone to give the ball to them and make simple plays and stretch the floor/create their own shot at the guard spot.

I agree on Fultz, I don't have any expectations on him. I do think he will play more than people are expecting though. At least as of recent reports. I watched some highlights last night and he really is shifty with the ball and feeds the open man well which is exactly what we need. But I can't in good faith go all in on him developing into our future PG until I see him out there for a while.

But yeah, I'm perfectly fine with seeing the guard options in next year's draft. And if we get a solid vet guard somehow in free agency, that just lessens the need for an available playmaking guard.

Skin · Post #234 » by **Skin** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:50 pm

I can totally understand where the disappointment comes from the standpoint of his draft slot at 16. It seems very possible that Okeke would've been available later on and that we could've collected some current or future draft assets if we moved down. But let's take a look at what trades did go down... Were there any other teams interested in trading up to our range? In order to move down, you have to have a partner willing to move up.

So let's see... MIN and PHX swapped 6 and 11 early on... but then no trades until pick 20 (Damn you Sixers for nabbing my pet cat).

On top of that.. guys like Nassir Little, Keldon Johnson and Kevin Porter who were high on Magic fans' minds weren't taken until pick 25, 29, 30!

The only other name commonly spoken of was NAW who got taken one pick later by the Hornets who are infamous for muffing up their picks (MKG, Zeller, Vonleh, Kaminsky, Monk... NAW next?). Even though NAW was a top prediction for many of us and a guy many got to favor, I think we can all agree that there was a certain feeling of mediocrity/blah there if he was the pick. He would've been safe, but not many consider him to have star potential. When a player is being described as having a high floor, but low ceiling, it's not time to be crying about missing out on such a player. Is this truly the guy you thought would be our upgrade over Fournier in due time? Maybe the Magic have their sights set higher than that. The Magic brought NAW in for workouts and met with him many times, took him out to eat, etc etc. He actually said he hung out in Orlando for weeks and hung out at the facility during other players workouts. Pretty sure the Magic knew who they were passing on when they decided not to draft NAW.

17 Nickeil Alexander-Walker
18 Goga Bitadze
19 Luka Šamanić
20 Matisse Thybulle
21 Brandon Clarke
22 Grant Williams
23 Darius Bazley
24 Ty Jerome
25 Nassir Little
26 Dylan Windler
27 Mfiondu Kabengele
28 Jordan Poole
29 Keldon Johnson
30 Kevin Porter Jr.

I myself was high on Porter because I think his upside is high, but I also admitted there was a high bust factor in him too. He can be a ball stopper, take questionable shots and his BBIQ and motor on defense were also items of concern. Seeing him fall to 30 is a bit of a confirmation that maybe I was too high on him.

My pet cat Thybulle being the target of the next trade up following the MIN/PHX swap was a bit of a sting however. Sixers got a guy who will be able to fill Redick's shoes and upgrade their defense and athleticism to boot.

But let's get back to Okeke. If he was taken in the 25-30 range where other Magic targets were taken would there be the same upset? Yeah, I'm sure there would still be some, but maybe the rage wouldn't be so bad. But then comes to question, would he have really been there?

Okeke was getting a lot of love during the tournament leading up to his injury and there was legit lottery talk for him. I still believe that he was only there at 16 because of his injury. Auburn very well could've won the tournament with him and he might've stolen away some of the hype that DeAndre Hunter earned for himself after Virginia's win.

Depsite the injury, Okeke was still on the radar of teams picking right behind us in Round 1. I did a little quick digging up and found a whole bunch of links.. You know the Magic must have done their homework.

Pick 18 - Pacers:

Jontay Porter, Chuma Okeke are risks worth taking for the Pacers

Chuma Okeke’s main selling point is preternatural feel for the game, one of the traits I value most in a prospect. Almost every good, playoff worthy non-superstar is smart and makes good decisions. Okeke is smart, a good decision maker and a legitimate playmaker off of the ball on defense.

Likely 6’7 with a near 7’0 wingspan, Okeke uses his length, size and feel to dominate as a team defender. This dominance is reflected on the stat sheet, where his absurd 5.5 block percentage and 3.7 steal percentage stand out. Along with Zion Williamson and Matisse Thybulle, he’s one of three players this season to reach those marks in a college season and one of 23 to do it since 2008.

https://8points9seconds.com/2019/05/31/chuma-okeke-makes-sense-pacers-long-term/

If the Pacers go big in free agency, the depth Okeke might provide is essential to the Pacers being more than a first round participant in the playoffs.

Currently, he is projected to go late in the first or even in the second round, but if you remove the ACL injury from the equation, it’s much easier to see him definitely being a first-round prospect.

Pick 19 - Spurs:

San Antonio Spurs Prospect Watch: Chuma Okeke
https://projectspurs.com/2019/06/04/san-antonio-spurs-prospect-watch-chuma-okeke/

He did a lot of the dirty work that doesn’t show up in the box score... His effort is definitely one of the best parts of his game... He could become a secret rim protector that the Spurs need .... the Spurs could see themselves getting a major steal here.

San Antonio Spurs 2019 NBA Draft Prospects: Chuma Okeke
https://airalamo.com/2019/06/06/san-antonio-spurs-2019-nba-draft-prospects-chuma-okeke/

Defensively, Okeke is a load to contend with, making his presence felt with his long frame that can disrupt passing lanes and force turnovers. Okeke also uses his defense to galvanize the offense, sprinting up the court to flush home an alley-oop or spotting up behind the three-point line to hit a dagger. The San Antonio Spurs could benefit greatly from Okeke’s services. Last season, the Spurs ranked in the bottom third of the league in blocks (21st), rebounding (21st) and steals (30). Okeke led the Tigers in all three of those categories

Pick 20 - Sixers:

2019 NBA draft profile: Despite ACL injury, Sixers should strongly consider Auburn's Chuma Okeke
https://sports.yahoo.com/2019-nba-draft-profile-despite-131611070.html

Philadelphia 76ers 2019 NBA Draft profile: Chuma Okeke
https://thesixersense.com/2019/05/26/philadelphia-76ers-2019-nba-draft-profile-chuma-okeke/

Prospect Breakdown: Chuma Okeke
https://www.libertyballers.com/2019/6/19/18679165/prospect-breakdown-chuma-okeke

NBA Draft Profile: Chuma Okeke
https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/video/nba-draft-profile-chuma-okeke

Okeke was looking at a guy out of our draft range during the March Tournament. His injury could be another blessing in disguise for the Magic who didn't get a lottery pick, but came away with a lottery talent. Injury is the only reason why he slipped and recovering from ACL is a common success in today's medical developments. Nobody is calling this a reach from a talent perspective. Only the injury perspective. Would you take Player A who is a better talent but will take time to arrive or Player B who is a lesser talent but can play today? This is the draft. Most rookies take time to go through the process anyways. Talent acquisition is priority #1. We made the playoffs and we got a lottery talent who could be "the steal of the draft". That's a great outcome to our season.

bigdogdylan5 · Post #235 » by **bigdogdylan5** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:53 pm

spinedoc wrote:By the way, when is a 6-7 230lb pf ever a top ten pick?

I mean I don’t understand why he is classified as a of he is a sf but keep bitching about position when literally everyone in the league is saying positions don’t matter

Post #236 » by **SOUL** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:56 pm

PrimeThyme wrote:I will say this, if the plan is to let Vuc/Ross walk this offseason and as a result we get a top 10 pick I will feel a lot differently about this selection. The 2020 draft is loaded with guard talent. So if Fultz/Bamba come back and are integrated into the lineup next year then next offseason with Mosgov/DJ coming off the books and a top 10 pick in a guard-heavy draft could make for a very interesting summer.

Right now there are too many questions for me to see that playing out though. I'm still terrified that Vuc gets a 4 year deal of 20 plus mill. I also am still weary about the Fultz situation.

FWIW, NAW wasn't ever going to be a transcendent pick. I think he just provides a skillset (shotmaking/Playmaking) at a position of need that Chuma doesn't. I think they have similar ceilings as well.

Yeah, that's how I'm looking at it. I do think the stars are aligning (for better or worse) for us to take a stepback year and go in a different direction. Maybe not. It certainly would make more sense to me if that's what we did, as far as this draft choice.

And also I don't necessarily disagree that NAW and Chuma are similar prospects for their perspective roles in the NBA and that one obviously has a better short-term fit (since guard help is an immediate need).

I guess my big problem is people just downing the kid or making it more about him than the front office's philosophies. I think most posters have calmed down and just want to see it play out, but undoubtedly there will be people railing against Chuma until he plays a game and then living and dying on every good and bad game from the kid. I'm just not a fan of the sort of NBA fan springing up which is doubting/rooting against/lowkey hoping a player fails so they can prop up the player they wanted and rub it in the face of other people. It's one thing if after 3-4 years somebody has made up their mind and that player is not contributing, it's another thing to give a rookie a fair chance and root for him. Which like I said, most people will do.

It's kind of like (and this isn't a skill comparison, just a reaction comparison) Bucks fans complaining (which I don't know if they did or not) about the Giannis pick being 2 years away from 2 years away, and being like "Why did we pick some kid playing against Greece second leaguers?" and then just constantly downing/questioning the pick all summer and getting into arguments. Then realizing it may have been the most important pick for your franchise ever. You never truly know what will happen with any of these picks, and looking back, it's just wasting a lot of time, energy, and stress for the constant arguments people will surely have over the next few months. I get the immediate excitement/disappointment, but then it's time to give players a chance and judge them fairly.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #237 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:58 pm

MAGICian619 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:
jayrehme wrote:
Why?

I was laughing AT you
Because MagicMatics answer to your bad line up scenario was funny and accurate.

Bless your heart.
- Because of your bad line up scenario.

Congrats at being the douche of the day.

I actually like the lineup idea and am pretty positive it is something we could end up seeing.

Bakomagic wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:So awesome that the Pels have now had two generational talents and who’ve effectively rebuilt their team and we’re excited about Chewy Okie Dokie backing AG mid season.

I think you need to take a ride on the vehicle in your avatar.

i mean I made a simple statement and this is the response I get yet I’m douche bag of the day. I’m glad you like the line up, at least there are two idiots I can laugh at.

spinedoc · Post #238 » by **spinedoc** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:58 pm

bigdogdylan5 wrote:
spinedoc wrote:By the way, when is a 6-7 230lb pf ever a top ten pick?

I mean I don’t understand why he is classified as a of he is a sf but keep bitching about position when literally everyone in the league is saying positions don’t matter

Here is what I see. 6-7 means sf, 230lbs means pf. Too small to play the four and too big and slow to play wing. We call that a tweener.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #239 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:00 pm

jayrehme wrote:
Nyce_1 wrote:
BlueBalls wrote:
You haven't seen it because it doesn't work

i laughed.

I fail to see the humor. His measurements and description coming in sound very similar to Draymond Green.

See Everyone’s laughing at you. go sit in the corner with the one other twit that agrees with you and discuss bad line ups together.

Bakomagic · Post #240 » by **Bakomagic** » Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:01 pm

Blue_and_Whte wrote:
MAGICian619 wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote: Because MagicMatics answer to your bad line up scenario was funny and accurate.

- Because of your bad line up scenario.

Congrats at being the douche of the day.

I actually like the lineup idea and am pretty positive it is something we could end up seeing.
Bakomagic wrote:
Blue_and_Whte wrote:So awesome that the Pels have now had two generational talents and who’ve effectively rebuilt their team and we’re excited about Chewy Okie Dokie backing AG mid season.

I think you need to take a ride on the vehicle in your avatar.

i mean I made a simple statement and this is the response I get yet I’m douche bag of the day. I’m glad you like the line up, at least there are two idiots I can laugh at.

Hey man, I was just joking with you. No hard feelings.