The Anthony Black Thread

[bigdogdylan5]

“Wait and see” with Fultz will happen.

It doesn’t matter to me what kind of season Fultz has. This was the same argument with Bamba and Vuc. You’ve spent the #6 pick on Anthony Black, then you get him on the court and don’t overpay someone you don’t need to pay 25-$30m because that’s “what you should do” and “you owe it to him”… NO. This is a business and you’ve made a business decision already. Move on and get other assets that make sense.

You can’t have both options because salary cap matters and minutes aren’t available for 4 guards wanting huge deals as starters.

I’m not “OK” waiting for Fultz to develop a shot in year 6 while the lotto pick 6’7 rookie with + defense gets backup backup minutes because the FO is terrified of making decisions.

You really think Black will be better than Fultz just next season? With all the info we have on guards not affecting winning in their rookie year?

[thelead]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

[VFX]

“Wait and see” with Fultz will happen.

It doesn’t matter to me what kind of season Fultz has. This was the same argument with Bamba and Vuc. You’ve spent the #6 pick on Anthony Black, then you get him on the court and don’t overpay someone you don’t need to pay 25-$30m because that’s “what you should do” and “you owe it to him”… NO. This is a business and you’ve made a business decision already. Move on and get other assets that make sense.

You can’t have both options because salary cap matters and minutes aren’t available for 4 guards wanting huge deals as starters.

I’m not “OK” waiting for Fultz to develop a shot in year 6 while the lotto pick 6’7 rookie with + defense gets backup backup minutes because the FO is terrified of making decisions.

You really think Black will be better than Fultz just next season? With all the info we have on guards not affecting winning in their rookie year?

It doesn’t matter if he is or isn’t.

20-$30m is on the line now placing a bet that won’t pay off regardless of next seasons results. Nobody is trading for a bottom 5-7 point guard making that money after this season and with the new CBA. It’s just a bad business decision.

Cole Anthony is still on the roster and lineups with him were not terrible last season.

If you are a lottery team you are making choices hoping these players pan out 4-5 years from now and not making short sighted decisions on the picks because you want to pay your role playing starting point guard next season.

[Knightro]

You really think Black will be better than Fultz just next season? With all the info we have on guards not affecting winning in their rookie year?

It's highly likely that Fultz will be better than Black next season, but we have to consider the bigger picture too.

What's more beneficial to the Magic in 24-25?

A. Making the playoffs with Fultz as the starting PG and Cole as the backup PG and Black playing out of position, only to then hand the starting PG spot to an inexperienced Black ahead of his second season?

or

B. Missing the playoffs with Fultz gone and Black going through his inevitable growing pains as a rookie starter, but Black being primed for the big year 1 to year 2 jump that so many players experience?

I think it's B. Seems like the Magic think it's A.

[89Magicfan]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

This line of thinking is what has kept us on the treadmill.

I think we need to start having real conversations about Weham being the right FO going forward.

Picking Paolo number 1 and Franz doesn’t doesn’t override the numerous head scratchers they pull off.

[thelead]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

This line of thinking is what has kept us on the treadmill.

I think we need to start having real conversations about Weham being the right FO going forward.

Picking Paolo number 1 and Franz doesn’t doesn’t override the numerous head scratchers they pull off.

So what star would you have drafted at 6? It’s all a guessing game… MANY respected draft guys had Black rated in the top 5.

We took BPA and I’m happy that they didn’t draft for fit.

[bigdogdylan5]

You really think Black will be better than Fultz just next season? With all the info we have on guards not affecting winning in their rookie year?

It's highly likely that Fultz will be better than Black next season, but we have to consider the bigger picture too.

What's more beneficial to the Magic in 24-25?

A. Making the playoffs with Fultz as the starting PG and Cole as the backup PG and Black playing out of position, only to then hand the starting PG spot to an inexperienced Black ahead of his second season?

or

B. Missing the playoffs with Fultz gone and Black going through his inevitable growing pains as a rookie starter, but Black being primed for the big year 1 to year 2 jump that so many players experience?

I think it's B. Seems like the Magic think it's A.

Difference in opinion I guess. I think we should be done gifting players minutes just because they are a top pick. I think A is perfectly reasonable I would want him to get PG reps to work through those growing pains against second units. I truly believe those minutes will be available because frankly our guards have not proven they can stay healthy.

[89Magicfan]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

This line of thinking is what has kept us on the treadmill.

I think we need to start having real conversations about Weham being the right FO going forward.

Picking Paolo number 1 and Franz doesn’t doesn’t override the numerous head scratchers they pull off.

So what star would you have drafted at 6? It’s all a guessing game… MANY respected draft guys had Black rated in the top 5.

We took BPA and I’m happy that they didn’t draft for fit.

I didn’t see a star at our spot. Wemby and Scoot were the only two I saw.

Same guys had Black lower before the gossip. These guys just go with what they hear not by analysis.

[Knightro]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

Will they though?

It feels just as likely that Fultz *and* Anthony get new contracts as it does either one of them are traded/let walk.

[eyriq]

It's going to be very easy to turn on Weltman. That constant sniffle is annoying af.

[Petre1978]

I’m sick of people saying the Magic had a terrible draft.

Anthony Black is a very good defender, high IQ passer, great feel for the game, solid off-ball cutter and a really good connector, finding the open man with ease.
He will fit like a glove next to Paolo and Franz, and he is 6’7 which only adds to the size of our already massive team.
He just isn’t a very good perimeter shooter, but then again neither are the Thompson twins or Scoot so I’m not sure why that pick has everyone so up in arms.

Other than scoring he does everything well on the court.
He can play the PNR( the other Magic guards can't) and he is an elite finisher with incredible feel at the rim and he’s good at drawing fouls, so the points will come even if he’s not chucking threes.
We saw how effective Paolo was at scoring thanks to his ability to draw contact, and now we have a 6’7 playmaking two-way point who can do the same.

Black also profiles as an excellent defender with great instincts on that end of the floor, unlike his pro player comp in Josh Giddey.
I like Kelle as much as anyone else but he has played more than 60 games just twice in his career and we paid dearly for his injuries last year, why not take the best player available in Black with the Thompson twins off the board in what could be the final top 6 pick this FO makes in this rebuild?

As for Jett, he might have been streaky in his Freshman season but he is miles ahead of what Caleb Houstan was out Michigan and certainly deserves your respect as a playmaking guard with a smooth three point stroke.
He is one of the best shooters in the class and also has size at 6’8 which we know this front office LOVES.
He excelled at Michigan at executing PNR action that NBA guys like Desmond Bane play well in, and he is a better all around player than Gradey Dick.

He plays with effort and hustle on D, just needs to be coached up on how to defend at a high level but the EFFORT is there and that **** matters more for a 19 year old coming into the league with a lot of room to grow.
He is a more pure shot creator, and a better playmaker than Dick, and his three point stroke is among the best in this class.

I know these aren’t the names many of us were hoping to get called on Draft Day but the Magic did an excellent job at adding tantalizing, talented young players with size, and after digesting these picks for awhile I think most of you will agree with me.
This FO has proven that when they reach on a player people are not as high on, they do not miss.

Franz Wagner at 8 was considered a reach (I distinctly remember people clamoring for Moses Moody or Ziaire Williams).

Wendell Carter Jr., Markelle Fultz, Moe Wagner, and Bol Bol have all exceeded expectations in Orlando, so I think this FO has earned a little bit more trust from this fanbase over the years.

Anthony Black and Jett Howard are two versatile, high high quality NBA caliber talents who do a little bit of everything and are high character individuals.
The future is still incredibly bright, and this FO deserves your patience in assembling the right roster to push this team towards title contention.

Now if Orlando adds shooters like Donte DiVincenzo and Max Strus in free agency the Magic could really be on to something with this offseason.
Magic on top baby, the dynasty starts in 2023.

[Message Boar]

Can someone who watches more full college games than me explain why Black only averaged 3.9 assists per game in college? As a big point guard whose main offensive selling points are supposedly bbiq/instincts/playmaking, that feels like kind of a low number to me. With 3,0 turnovers, too, so it's not like the ball wasn't in his hands.

edit: just working my way backwards through recent years to look at assists numbers for lottery collegiate guards that were considered true lead/point guards at that time (during their freshman years). Ironically, Suggs is the first up with 4.5 apg in 6 less minutes. Haliburton was at 3.6 if we want to count him, that gives some hope (looks like his role was different as a freshman, though). Morant was at 6.3. Garland was interestingly only at 2.6. Trae Young 8.7. SGA at 5.1. Markelle was at 5.9. Lonzo 7.6. Fox at 4.6. Dennis Smith Jr. at 6.2. On the plus side I noticed the hit rate on these collegiate lead guards is pretty good compared to the rest of these lottery picks, so that's maybe hopefully encouraging?

Semi-related I looked up Jason Kidd's freshman stats, because that's the highest praise comp I've heard for Black. The stats were indeed mostly quite similar, except Kidd averaged almost double the assists (7.7) and steals (3.8), in less minutes per game. Now of course J-Kidd is a hall of famer and one of the best passers ever, so I don't want to put that kind of expectation on Black at all. Was just curious to see what a stat-sheet-stuffer like Kidd was putting up back in those days when I wasn't watching basketball yet.

[Skin]

Here's a stat...

Going back to the 1992-1993 season, only 5 NCAA freshman have recorded at least 70 steals and at least 20 blocks in one year.

Anthony Black in 22-23
Zion Williamson in 18-19
Marcus Smart in 12-13
Tyreke Evans in 08-09
Cookie Belcher in 96-97

This is enlightening. Cool.

[basketballRob]

It's going to be very easy to turn on Weltman. That constant sniffle is annoying af.

https://youtu.be/mwpwPwWIueM

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Petre1978]

It's going to be very easy to turn on Weltman. That constant sniffle is annoying af.

https://youtu.be/mwpwPwWIueM

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

[VFX]

As for Jett... he is a better all around player than Gradey Dick.

He is a more pure shot creator, and a better playmaker than Dick, and his three point stroke is among the best in this class.

This is factually untrue.

What you can say is that you hope Jett is more than what he displayed in college. Weltman said they picked him because they believe his injury held him back from doing what he was truly capable.

Gradey Dick was by all metrics was a more complete player last season. He is a better shot creator, better off the dribble, better playmaker. etc. There is a reason why he was mocked higher almost unanimously by every scout and analyst.

[89Magicfan]

I’m sick of people saying the Magic had a terrible draft.

Anthony Black is a very good defender, high IQ passer, great feel for the game, solid off-ball cutter and a really good connector, finding the open man with ease.
He will fit like a glove next to Paolo and Franz, and he is 6’7 which only adds to the size of our already massive team.
He just isn’t a very good perimeter shooter, but then again neither are the Thompson twins or Scoot so I’m not sure why that pick has everyone so up in arms.

Other than scoring he does everything well on the court.
He can play the PNR( the other Magic guards can't) and he is an elite finisher with incredible feel at the rim and he’s good at drawing fouls, so the points will come even if he’s not chucking threes.
We saw how effective Paolo was at scoring thanks to his ability to draw contact, and now we have a 6’7 playmaking two-way point who can do the same.

Black also profiles as an excellent defender with great instincts on that end of the floor, unlike his pro player comp in Josh Giddey.
I like Kelle as much as anyone else but he has played more than 60 games just twice in his career and we paid dearly for his injuries last year, why not take the best player available in Black with the Thompson twins off the board in what could be the final top 6 pick this FO makes in this rebuild?

As for Jett, he might have been streaky in his Freshman season but he is miles ahead of what Caleb Houstan was out Michigan and certainly deserves your respect as a playmaking guard with a smooth three point stroke.
He is one of the best shooters in the class and also has size at 6’8 which we know this front office LOVES.
He excelled at Michigan at executing PNR action that NBA guys like Desmond Bane play well in, and he is a better all around player than Gradey Dick.

He plays with effort and hustle on D, just needs to be coached up on how to defend at a high level but the EFFORT is there and that **** matters more for a 19 year old coming into the league with a lot of room to grow.
He is a more pure shot creator, and a better playmaker than Dick, and his three point stroke is among the best in this class.

I know these aren’t the names many of us were hoping to get called on Draft Day but the Magic did an excellent job at adding tantalizing, talented young players with size, and after digesting these picks for awhile I think most of you will agree with me.
This FO has proven that when they reach on a player people are not as high on, they do not miss.

Franz Wagner at 8 was considered a reach (I distinctly remember people clamoring for Moses Moody or Ziaire Williams).

Wendell Carter Jr., Markelle Fultz, Moe Wagner, and Bol Bol have all exceeded expectations in Orlando, so I think this FO has earned a little bit more trust from this fanbase over the years.

Anthony Black and Jett Howard are two versatile, high high quality NBA caliber talents who do a little bit of everything and are high character individuals.
The future is still incredibly bright, and this FO deserves your patience in assembling the right roster to push this team towards title contention.

Now if Orlando adds shooters like Donte DiVincenzo and Max Strus in free agency the Magic could really be on to something with this offseason.
Magic on top baby, the dynasty starts in 2023.

It isn’t just because it’s Black. It’s because of the position we are in. 6 and 11 was our best assets. Next years draft sucks. This years FA sucks. None of our current players have much value without those two picks.

We are on the treadmill and have been for some time and here we are again looking to another year of it. Maybe more.

[Skin]

It's going to be very easy to turn on Weltman. That constant sniffle is annoying af.

Pretty sure he was high on coke during the draft.

[yoyojw17]

Trades will happen people. Relax. It might not be this summer (I don’t expect it) but it will happen in the next year or so.

We drafted BPA and hopefully he becomes a stud AND Fultz improves. Then we can trade one of them for a star at a position of need and dominate. Similar to Sac trading Hali for Sabonis.

Will they though?

It feels just as likely that Fultz *and* Anthony get new contracts as it does either one of them are traded/let walk.

I personally don't see this being an indicator of anything in the immediate future.... especially with fultz. it all depends on what they think fultz is capable of becoming. If they think he can become more than what he was observed to be... and possibly even asked to be in the first seasons of their core in franz and banchero... then i would NOT be surprised he gets that new contract. Black is going to 3 years plus of controlled contract. no use to let go of an asset or trade it prior to it's true value. Let's not act like he is not going to grow on the bench and strengthen our bench for our push for the playoffs over the next few seasons. and IF he is brewing with potential and fultz's value higher... pull the trigger. But there is no use to do it right now.

THE ONE IF i have is....Anthony's desires. If he's not going to be happy with the position here... he has definitely shown his improvements and has become more predictable trade chip. we will see. At 6'7" black and legitimate top-tier defense through 3 positions... it affords great flexibility with our lineups. if it was scoot... not so much and i would agree that changes would have to come shortly.

as of now .... i think the one thing they will be looking for is.... a backup center. Suggs will be given a fair shot at the SG position and harris will back him up.

[Message Boar]

I’m sick of people saying the Magic had a terrible draft.

-snip-

It isn’t just because it’s Black. It’s because of the position we are in. 6 and 11 was our best assets. Next years draft sucks. This years FA sucks. None of our current players have much value without those two picks.

We are on the treadmill and have been for some time and here we are again looking to another year of it. Maybe more.

Come on, that's preposterous. Those years of Vuc/Fournier buddy ball, that was what a treadmill looks like. We are a building/rebuilding team a couple years in (now essentially entering year 3), and our best assets are Paolo and Franz until proven otherwise. They're like 20 and 21 years old. "None of our current players have much value without those two picks"? What the hell? What do you even mean by that?

As for Petre I agree with some, maybe most, of what you wrote and disagreed with some, too; also thought there were a few fallacies in there. But I will say this, blind hate is stupid, nonsensical and not a good way to approach things in life. But so is blind faith.