Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

[Bensational]

If all you wanted for Gordon was expirings and a mid first then may as well trade him to Portland for Ariza + Simmons + their pick.

Wolves would have to include Culver instead of Spellman for my liking.

The reason why I put Spellman in was because the money would be exact 18 million in and 18 million out for both teams. Gordon 18 million, Johnson 16 Million, Spellman 2 million.

Culver makes 6 million so him and Johnson would be 24 million in and too much for Orlando to take in for the deal to work. They would have to add a similar contract which the only guy would be Mo Bamba who also makes 6 million.

Spotrac has James' salary at $16M. With Culver it's roughly $22M total, and Gordon is $18M, so it's close to working. We'd have to throw in a min contract at most to balance it.

James and the #17 simply isn't enough value for Gordon, if he's one of our few valuable assets.

[Magicfanatic82]

Birch contract would balance the trade.

[UnFadeable21]

If all you wanted for Gordon was expirings and a mid first then may as well trade him to Portland for Ariza + Simmons + their pick.

Wolves would have to include Culver instead of Spellman for my liking.

The reason why I put Spellman in was because the money would be exact 18 million in and 18 million out for both teams. Gordon 18 million, Johnson 16 Million, Spellman 2 million.

Culver makes 6 million so him and Johnson would be 24 million in and too much for Orlando to take in for the deal to work. They would have to add a similar contract which the only guy would be Mo Bamba who also makes 6 million.

Spotrac has James' salary at $16M. With Culver it's roughly $22M total, and Gordon is $18M, so it's close to working. We'd have to throw in a min contract at most to balance it.

James and the #17 simply isn't enough value for Gordon, if he's one of our few valuable assets.

Personally I would do it.

Culver and Okogie are very similar and I would be willing to give one up of them.

[pepe1991]

i find trading Gordon for non lottery pick from 2020 complete waste of 6 years invested in him.
Just like any trade that incldues moving both Gordon and Vuc for cap space- waste of time. Nobody will join 20 wins Magic team in 2021 season to "save" them from missery.

[drsd]

i find trading Gordon for non lottery pick from 2020 complete waste of 6 years invested in him.
Just like any trade that incldues moving both Gordon and Vuc for cap space- waste of time. Nobody will join 20 wins Magic team in 2021 season to "save" them from missery.

Most teams become title contenders by going from bad to mediocre, and then developing upwards from there.

That some here want the team blown up defies logic and what I want (and this appears to be in agreement with you), is for Orlando to consolidate assets to become more of a winning team.

If/when Fournier and Ennis opt in, I think the Magic must focus on PG and PF depth as short-term goals. Yes the means resigning Carter-Williams and Clark to short-term deals. From there I think the Magic should just play out the year. This means draft BPA and ride the team to the next off-season. Let's call it Hampton to fill in a roster:

Fultz/Hampton/Carter-Williams
Fournier/Ross
Gordon/Ennis
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Vučević/Bamba/Birch


Many here will be displeased if the Magic go with this roster. But for me it makes sense. It allows the Magic to focus on the 2021 FA market and assess Bamba, Isaac, and Fultz as assets moving forward (major contract decisions and all that).

..

[UnFadeable21]

i find trading Gordon for non lottery pick from 2020 complete waste of 6 years invested in him.
Just like any trade that incldues moving both Gordon and Vuc for cap space- waste of time. Nobody will join 20 wins Magic team in 2021 season to "save" them from missery.

Better trade for the Magic

17, Expiring James Johnson, Jarrett Culver

For

Aaron Gordon, and K Birch

22 million in and out for both teams.

[basketballRob]

i find trading Gordon for non lottery pick from 2020 complete waste of 6 years invested in him.
Just like any trade that incldues moving both Gordon and Vuc for cap space- waste of time. Nobody will join 20 wins Magic team in 2021 season to "save" them from missery.

Better trade for the Magic

17, Expiring James Johnson, Jarrett Culver

For

Aaron Gordon, and K Birch

22 million in and out for both teams.

I'd probably be okay with that. Culver can't shoot tho, but we'd have more cap flexibility.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

Let's say Magic do that offered trade, get 17# pick and Culver, let exp contracts expire, including Evan.

That trade doesn't really help Magic long or short term.
You are not getting better basketball player than Gordon is with 15# nor 17# pick and Culver is anything but good in this moment.

And alleged "cap space" also- isn't there for summer of 2021

Vuc $24M
Ross $12,5M
Aminu $10,1M
Bamba $7,5M


Culver $6,3M
Okeke ( around ) $3M
15th pick $3M
17th pick $2,7M
2021 pick around $3M

Around $72M Let's say Isaac and Fultz are splitting $30M deal ( probably will be more than that). Magic already have $102M in cap space. How execlly are you "flexible" for 2021 summer, if salary cap current projections are $115M. Your "flexibliity" is to add one Thad Young or Corey Joseph type player.

Magic only path toward secured future with actual player(s) to build around is to make a trade for already established star(-ish) player. All this lottery picks, non lottery picks are more often than not, just bodies. Jarrett Culver is best example of it. From 6th pick to being unplayable on bad team over 10 months.
It's not like Garland, Hayes,Hachimura or Hunter are doing much. Their value perished in one year.
For every Luka Doncic there are 50 fails.

If you are Magic front office, you are interested in guys like Lavine, Porter Jr, Jaylen Brown, TJ Warren, Derrick White,Levert,Dejounte Murray, Spencer Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Mc Cullum...
Some of them might even be star players soon ( Lavine, Warren, Levert...). But at very worst they are valuable player. Where, most picks are just players that need years to develop, and after they do, they tend to leave.


MO Bamba was 6th overall draft pick in one what is considered one of best drafts in last 5-10 years. How is that working out?
Fultz was 1# pick and Isaac was 6th pick in really ,really, REALLY great draft that alraedy gave 3 allstars in 3 years. How is that working out?

It's possible to draft star player ,most of superstars are drafted in lottery, sure, but even the bests drafts in history only give like 3 allstars at max. More often than not, it's 1 to 2 per draft at best. That's why you have teams like Kings, Suns, T wolves who spend 10+ years in lottery and draft like 2 allstars in 12 years, and still can't build team around him/them.

[j-ragg]

Let's say Magic do that offered trade, get 17# pick and Culver, let exp contracts expire, including Evan.

That trade doesn't really help Magic long or short term.
You are not getting better basketball player than Gordon is with 15# nor 17# pick and Culver is anything but good in this moment.

And alleged "cap space" also- isn't there for summer of 2021

Vuc $24M
Ross $12,5M
Aminu $10,1M
Bamba $7,5M


Culver $6,3M
Okeke ( around ) $3M
15th pick $3M
17th pick $2,7M
2021 pick around $3M

Around $72M Let's say Isaac and Fultz are splitting $30M deal ( probably will be more than that). Magic already have $102M in cap space. How execlly are you "flexible" for 2021 summer, if salary cap current projections are $115M. Your "flexibliity" is to add one Thad Young or Corey Joseph type player.

Magic only path toward secured future with actual player(s) to build around is to make a trade for already established star(-ish) player. All this lottery picks, non lottery picks are more often than not, just bodies. Jarrett Culver is best example of it. From 6th pick to being unplayable on bad team over 10 months.
It's not like Garland, Hayes,Hachimura or Hunter are doing much. Their value perished in one year.
For every Luka Doncic there are 50 fails.

If you are Magic front office, you are interested in guys like Lavine, Porter Jr, Jaylen Brown, TJ Warren, Derrick White,Levert,Dejounte Murray, Spencer Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Mc Cullum...
Some of them might even be star players soon ( Lavine, Warren, Levert...). But at very worst they are valuable player. Where, most picks are just players that need years to develop, and after they do, they tend to leave.


MO Bamba was 6th overall draft pick in one what is considered one of best drafts in last 5-10 years. How is that working out?
Fultz was 1# pick and Isaac was 6th pick in really ,really, REALLY great draft that alraedy gave 3 allstars in 3 years. How is that working out?

It's possible to draft star player ,most of superstars are drafted in lottery, sure, but even the bests drafts in history only give like 3 allstars at max. More often than not, it's 1 to 2 per draft at best. That's why you have teams like Kings, Suns, T wolves who spend 10+ years in lottery and draft like 2 allstars in 12 years, and still can't build team around him/them.

I agree, there’s no foreseeable cap space without multiple moves. There’s probably not gonna be multiple moves given this front office’s complacency with where we are in the East hierarchy.

[cedric76]

Let's say Magic do that offered trade, get 17# pick and Culver, let exp contracts expire, including Evan.

That trade doesn't really help Magic long or short term.
You are not getting better basketball player than Gordon is with 15# nor 17# pick and Culver is anything but good in this moment.

And alleged "cap space" also- isn't there for summer of 2021

Vuc $24M
Ross $12,5M
Aminu $10,1M
Bamba $7,5M


Culver $6,3M
Okeke ( around ) $3M
15th pick $3M
17th pick $2,7M
2021 pick around $3M

Around $72M Let's say Isaac and Fultz are splitting $30M deal ( probably will be more than that). Magic already have $102M in cap space. How execlly are you "flexible" for 2021 summer, if salary cap current projections are $115M. Your "flexibliity" is to add one Thad Young or Corey Joseph type player.

Magic only path toward secured future with actual player(s) to build around is to make a trade for already established star(-ish) player. All this lottery picks, non lottery picks are more often than not, just bodies. Jarrett Culver is best example of it. From 6th pick to being unplayable on bad team over 10 months.
It's not like Garland, Hayes,Hachimura or Hunter are doing much. Their value perished in one year.
For every Luka Doncic there are 50 fails.

If you are Magic front office, you are interested in guys like Lavine, Porter Jr, Jaylen Brown, TJ Warren, Derrick White,Levert,Dejounte Murray, Spencer Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Mc Cullum...
Some of them might even be star players soon ( Lavine, Warren, Levert...). But at very worst they are valuable player. Where, most picks are just players that need years to develop, and after they do, they tend to leave.


MO Bamba was 6th overall draft pick in one what is considered one of best drafts in last 5-10 years. How is that working out?
Fultz was 1# pick and Isaac was 6th pick in really ,really, REALLY great draft that alraedy gave 3 allstars in 3 years. How is that working out?

It's possible to draft star player ,most of superstars are drafted in lottery, sure, but even the bests drafts in history only give like 3 allstars at max. More often than not, it's 1 to 2 per draft at best. That's why you have teams like Kings, Suns, T wolves who spend 10+ years in lottery and draft like 2 allstars in 12 years, and still can't build team around him/them.

#come on

You can easily move one of those 2 contracts for expiring if needed

Vuc $24M
Ross $12,5M

[zaymon]

If we move Vucevic and Ross there is no point in having cap space. They are our best offensive players and reason anybody would want to come here.
I agree with pepe, there is almost no point in trading Gordon for pennies on the dolar. We must consolidate or gather future assets, not picks in current draft. If there is a potential star we better target it at 15 or move up.
Watching AG another year will be painful, but i would rather watch him than lose asset.

[OrlandoNed]

If we move Vucevic and Ross there is no point in having cap space. They are our best offensive players and reason anybody would want to come here.
I agree with pepe, there is almost no point in trading Gordon for pennies on the dolar. We must consolidate or gather future assets, not picks in current draft. If there is a potential star we better target it at 15 or move up.
Watching AG another year will be painful, but i would rather watch him than lose asset.

Nobody is banging down our door to play with Vuc and Ross. Any free agent who wants to be here is here for minutes and a paycheck. No franchise altering talent wants to join our rudderless squad.

And poor us having to watch AG another year. What, would you rather watch Fultz stand in the corner or BuddyBall or DJ dribble the air out of the ball? I’d rather watch AG develop his playmaking after seeing those big assist totals he was putting up before the outbreak.

You shouldn’t be so desperate to dump AG if you are so concerned about losing Vuc or Ross. Our other options are a rookie who Cliff hates to use, Isaac who is almost always injured and a washed up Aminu.

[zaymon]

If we move Vucevic and Ross there is no point in having cap space. They are our best offensive players and reason anybody would want to come here.
I agree with pepe, there is almost no point in trading Gordon for pennies on the dolar. We must consolidate or gather future assets, not picks in current draft. If there is a potential star we better target it at 15 or move up.
Watching AG another year will be painful, but i would rather watch him than lose asset.

Nobody is banging down our door to play with Vuc and Ross. Any free agent who wants to be here is here for minutes and a paycheck. No franchise altering talent wants to join our rudderless squad.

And poor us having to watch AG another year. What, would you rather watch Fultz stand in the corner or BuddyBall or DJ dribble the air out of the ball? I’d rather watch AG develop his playmaking after seeing those big assist totals he was putting up before the outbreak.

You shouldn’t be so desperate to dump AG if you are so concerned about losing Vuc or Ross. Our other options are a rookie who Cliff hates to use, Isaac who is almost always injured and a washed up Aminu.

Of all the options you listed AG is the worst by both eye test and numbers.
Vucevic and Ross are not world beaters but they can take us to playoffs unlike AG.
Cliff doesnt hate to use rookies, for god sake he gave rotational minutes to Bamba for the last 2 years.
Aminu is not washed up. He had to adjust to new team and than got injured.
If we gather enough assets to trade for a star without losing Isaac and Fultz it could get interesting.
We have all our picks, we have good players on good contracts. We will make a move.
I dont want to spend assets and dump contracts for lesser value.

[OrlandoNed]

Of all the options you listed AG is the worst by both eye test and numbers.
Vucevic and Ross are not world beaters but they can take us to playoffs unlike AG.

Oh BS man.

Vuc and Ross can take us to the playoffs but AG can’t? Have you been in a coma for the last two years? AG contributed just as much to our two playoff appearances as Vuc and Ross. Last I checked we barely made the playoffs twice WITH all 3, now Vuc and Ross can carry us with a lesser player replacing AG.

You are either straight up drunk on Haterade or you are the biggest Vuc and Ross homer on the planet.

[MasterGMer]

We need flexibility 2021 summer and that is a fact. We can easily move contracts for expiring. But is that the point? We add FA in order to improve the team and move for expiring decreases our ability.

We have cap hold on Isaac and Fultz. I don't know how we gonna get it done. But at least I hope

[Xatticus]

Let's say Magic do that offered trade, get 17# pick and Culver, let exp contracts expire, including Evan.

That trade doesn't really help Magic long or short term.
You are not getting better basketball player than Gordon is with 15# nor 17# pick and Culver is anything but good in this moment.

And alleged "cap space" also- isn't there for summer of 2021

Vuc $24M
Ross $12,5M
Aminu $10,1M
Bamba $7,5M


Culver $6,3M
Okeke ( around ) $3M
15th pick $3M
17th pick $2,7M
2021 pick around $3M

Around $72M Let's say Isaac and Fultz are splitting $30M deal ( probably will be more than that). Magic already have $102M in cap space. How execlly are you "flexible" for 2021 summer, if salary cap current projections are $115M. Your "flexibliity" is to add one Thad Young or Corey Joseph type player.

Magic only path toward secured future with actual player(s) to build around is to make a trade for already established star(-ish) player. All this lottery picks, non lottery picks are more often than not, just bodies. Jarrett Culver is best example of it. From 6th pick to being unplayable on bad team over 10 months.
It's not like Garland, Hayes,Hachimura or Hunter are doing much. Their value perished in one year.
For every Luka Doncic there are 50 fails.

If you are Magic front office, you are interested in guys like Lavine, Porter Jr, Jaylen Brown, TJ Warren, Derrick White,Levert,Dejounte Murray, Spencer Dinwiddie, Brogdon, Mc Cullum...
Some of them might even be star players soon ( Lavine, Warren, Levert...). But at very worst they are valuable player. Where, most picks are just players that need years to develop, and after they do, they tend to leave.


MO Bamba was 6th overall draft pick in one what is considered one of best drafts in last 5-10 years. How is that working out?
Fultz was 1# pick and Isaac was 6th pick in really ,really, REALLY great draft that alraedy gave 3 allstars in 3 years. How is that working out?

It's possible to draft star player ,most of superstars are drafted in lottery, sure, but even the bests drafts in history only give like 3 allstars at max. More often than not, it's 1 to 2 per draft at best. That's why you have teams like Kings, Suns, T wolves who spend 10+ years in lottery and draft like 2 allstars in 12 years, and still can't build team around him/them.

I'd do it. We have to cash in on Gordon at some point. I don't think this is the optimal point to do so due to the season he just had, but I like this offer. I'm of the mind that the Isaac injury has done substantial harm to next season and I worry that Gordon's market shrinks if you wait for his contract to wind down to the final season. Is Minnesota even interested if there is only a year left on his deal? Some markets just aren't going to surrender value for a player they aren't optimistic they can re-sign. With two years left, there is a lot more flexibility for a team like Minnesota.

You are giving up two years of control on Gordon for roughly seven years of control on Culver and eight years of control on the 17th pick. It's nice to get to choose your prospect, but I still consider Culver to be the more valuable piece. I liked him before the draft last year. Minnesota already ate the first year of his development and he clearly improved as the season wore on. Nothing in his stat line wows you, but if you look at the advanced stuff, he really wasn't bad. His lineups were alright. If his shooting percentages are more appealing, does Minnesota even consider moving him? You have to wonder if his minutes will get squeezed with the additions of Beasley and the number-2 pick. If he fills out, he will be a very versatile defender. It's a gamble, but it's one that I'd take.

As for increasing our upside, any long-term pieces we add are increasing our upside. We are a middling team that is going nowhere and we have a timer on this iteration of the team with Gordon's deal winding down. Vucevic is already 30 and there are no signs of a window opening at the moment. There just isn't much to be lost by taking a step back.

[zaymon]

Of all the options you listed AG is the worst by both eye test and numbers.
Vucevic and Ross are not world beaters but they can take us to playoffs unlike AG.

Oh BS man.

Vuc and Ross can take us to the playoffs but AG can’t? Have you been in a coma for the last two years? AG contributed just as much to our two playoff appearances as Vuc and Ross. Last I checked we barely made the playoffs twice WITH all 3, now Vuc and Ross can carry us with a lesser player replacing AG.

You are either straight up drunk on Haterade or you are the biggest Vuc and Ross homer on the planet.

Aaron Gordon was one of the worst ball handlers in the whole nba this season. His most efficient playtypes were cuts and post ups. You cant create your teams offense around that. He has positive impact on games but more as a ball mover than shot creator.
Yes you can make playoffs with Gordon, but he is not the driving force of your offense nor defense. If you think creating offense via AG gives similar results to Ross or Vucevic i have nothing more to say.

Watch on YouTube

His highest assist game this year. Mostly transition offense, post ups and using looks our movement shooters create. He barely creates any offense. Educate yourself and stop writing nonsense.

[Bensational]

Fournier's decision could really force WeHam's hand here. If he opts out, they could lose an asset for nothing. No capspace back, not even a 2nd round pick and an expiring contract.

Even though a lot of people on the board don't value Evan on this team, he's still a starting calibre player with skill in high demand. Losing that for nothing is just a wasted opportunity, even if you do feel it's addition by subtraction.

[pepe1991]

I assume zymons point is that cap space without any established star in 2021 is kind a usless.
It's not like you will be in sweepstake for Lebron, Davis, Kawhi.
You will just have lot of money. Last time Magic were in that position their praised FAs were Green and Biyombo.

Most people here are ready to move away from current roster, i just don't want brainless dive into lottery like it's promise land and God will split Red Sea so we can draft new Lebron.
I saw around nba enough scenarios where teams tank for 3 years and come out with best player who's ceiling is to be top 10th player at his position, if he develops or really good player who just plays position that isn't impactful ( De'aaron Fox- Kings / Towns- T wolves, in past Kevin Love, Knicks - Porzingis...)

[OrlandoNed]

Of all the options you listed AG is the worst by both eye test and numbers.
Vucevic and Ross are not world beaters but they can take us to playoffs unlike AG.

Oh BS man.

Vuc and Ross can take us to the playoffs but AG can’t? Have you been in a coma for the last two years? AG contributed just as much to our two playoff appearances as Vuc and Ross. Last I checked we barely made the playoffs twice WITH all 3, now Vuc and Ross can carry us with a lesser player replacing AG.

You are either straight up drunk on Haterade or you are the biggest Vuc and Ross homer on the planet.

Aaron Gordon was one of the worst ball handlers in the whole nba this season. His most efficient playtypes were cuts and post ups. You cant create your teams offense around that. He has positive impact on games but more as a ball mover than shot creator.
Yes you can make playoffs with Gordon, but he is not the driving force of your offense nor defense. If you think creating offense via AG gives similar results to Ross or Vucevic i have nothing more to say.

Watch on YouTube

His highest assist game this year. Mostly transition offense, post ups and using looks our movement shooters create. He barely creates any offense. Educate yourself and stop writing nonsense.

Pretty sure I didn’t say a damn thing about running the offense through AG as a top option. Yes Vuc is clearly a #1 option on this team currently but somebody has to get him the ball, and there nothing wrong with having multiple guys who can make plays. AG doesn’t have to be a driving force on either side of the ball to be a difference maker which he has been due to his athleticism and versatility. Those assist totals are no fluke and to me, are a clear sign of a guy who has yet to reach his peak.

And making Ross out to be a viable top option is a joke. You oversimplify what AG does, but you make it sound like Ross coming off screen after screen for a contested 3 or a 1 dribble pull up for a long 2 is the second coming of the triangle offense. That’s literally all he does aside from the occasional baseline dunk. Ross isn’t nearly as consistent enough at making shots to be considered a high option. There is a reason that “Coin Toss” Ross doesn’t start and has almost exclusively played off the bench for his entire career.

Go “educate” yourself.