All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0

[three3d]

He played with the Dame/CJ Blazers so incorrect.

We need to extend him to grow with our team, what do you think gets it done?

He was on the team with Dame and CJ sure, but he didn’t come into his own till those guys were gone really.
Portland is in a tough spot because of Scoot and Sharpe , they are a bad team in the tough Western Conference. They need to shed salary and get draft assets to build..

I thought he played his best with Dame, which maybe bodes well for him being a 3rd option.

I'm saying we would need to extend him for him to be a part of the core and that price will be a huge factor in if it's worth acquiring him. What do we think gets the extension done?

He’s already getting a raise just by coming and playing in Florida with no state income tax. Not knowing his values if they are financially motivated or maybe he’d enjoy playing back home really can’t say.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Can we acknowledge that Simons has a 55.2 TS%? I like the idea of the spacing and the potential that he can improve with better shot selection, but when we call him great, surely we should acknowledge that he has shot poorly this year right?

I mean it's fine if you think that we shoot so bad that it makes him really valuable to us, but that shouldn't change his value at 27 million in the league as a whole.

I'd rather watch his 27M 55.2 TS% than what Gary & Cole bring us for 20.6M.

[Idiosyncratic]

Can we acknowledge that Simons has a 55.2 TS%? I like the idea of the spacing and the potential that he can improve with better shot selection, but when we call him great, surely we should acknowledge that he has shot poorly this year right?

I mean it's fine if you think that we shoot so bad that it makes him really valuable to us, but that shouldn't change his value at 27 million in the league as a whole.

I'd rather watch his 27M 55.2 TS% than what Gary & Cole bring us for 20.6M.

Me too, but still have to consider what it will cost. I can do the Denver pick for him and one of their spare bigs (Reath or Walker) for insurance if/when Wendell/Isaac get hurt.

I would argue he is worth 2nds at his contract, but them having to take Cole's contract back is the thing that could push it into late 1st territory.

I think I'm mostly fine with that. I also would not blame them for not doing it.

[Idiosyncratic]

OK just quick maths, if they acquire Simons and decline Mo they are a 1st apron team next year. Pick up Mo's option they would be a 2nd apron team which is not happening.

Looking past next year, if they extend him to the Malik Monk deal with some inflation factored in 4/84 then they would have

Paolo lets say - 40
Franz- 41.7
Suggs- 32.4
Caldwell-Pope- 21.6
Simons- 21
Wendell- 18
Isaac- 14.5
AB 10
Rookie 1- 4
Rookie 2- 4
TDS- 4
Jett- 7

218 million which is an apron team and still needs a few minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Can cut Jett or Isaac to get slightly under though. If Paolo takes 50 million it becomes really difficult. Caldwell-Pope would be gone the next year, but then AB would need extension if worth it and if not you are back to the same guard problem.

Could trade 1sts to unload Wendell, but then filling out depth with 2nds and undrafted players.

So trading and extending Simons locks us into this roster for a few years with little flexibility aside from hitting on our remaining draft picks. Worth considering. Is Simons the guy worth giving up our flexibility for? Maybe, maybe not. Could find a way to work Caldwell-Pope or Isaac into the deal to maybe alleviate that issue, but otherwise it is what it is.

Disclaimer is that I am no cap expert and could be slightly wrong somewhere here.

[drsd]

OK just quick maths, if they acquire Simons and decline Mo they are a 1st apron team next year. Pick up Mo's option they would be a 2nd apron team which is not happening.

Looking past next year, if they extend him to the Malik Monk deal with some inflation factored in 4/84 then they would have

Paolo lets say - 40
Franz- 41.7
Suggs- 32.4
Caldwell-Pope- 21.6
Simons- 21
Wendell- 18
Isaac- 14.5
AB 10
Rookie 1- 4
Rookie 2- 4
TDS- 4
Jett- 7

218 million which is an apron team and still needs a few minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Can cut Jett or Isaac to get slightly under though. If Paolo takes 50 million it becomes really difficult. Caldwell-Pope would be gone the next year, but then AB would need extension if worth it and if not you are back to the same guard problem.

Could trade 1sts to unload Wendell, but then filling out depth with 2nds and undrafted players.

So trading and extending Simons locks us into this roster for a few years with little flexibility aside from hitting on our remaining draft picks. Worth considering. Is Simons the guy worth giving up our flexibility for? Maybe, maybe not. Could find a way to work Caldwell-Pope or Isaac into the deal to maybe alleviate that issue, but otherwise it is what it is.

Disclaimer is that I am no cap expert and could be slightly wrong somewhere here.

One thing is that cutting a player does not relieve their cap hit.

But: this is another reason to emphasis why the magic cannot have both Caldwell-Pope and Simons on the roster. If Caldwell-Pope's salary was the basis for acquiring Simons, all is fine (short term at least).

[Idiosyncratic]

OK just quick maths, if they acquire Simons and decline Mo they are a 1st apron team next year. Pick up Mo's option they would be a 2nd apron team which is not happening.

Looking past next year, if they extend him to the Malik Monk deal with some inflation factored in 4/84 then they would have

Paolo lets say - 40
Franz- 41.7
Suggs- 32.4
Caldwell-Pope- 21.6
Simons- 21
Wendell- 18
Isaac- 14.5
AB 10
Rookie 1- 4
Rookie 2- 4
TDS- 4
Jett- 7

218 million which is an apron team and still needs a few minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Can cut Jett or Isaac to get slightly under though. If Paolo takes 50 million it becomes really difficult. Caldwell-Pope would be gone the next year, but then AB would need extension if worth it and if not you are back to the same guard problem.

Could trade 1sts to unload Wendell, but then filling out depth with 2nds and undrafted players.

So trading and extending Simons locks us into this roster for a few years with little flexibility aside from hitting on our remaining draft picks. Worth considering. Is Simons the guy worth giving up our flexibility for? Maybe, maybe not. Could find a way to work Caldwell-Pope or Isaac into the deal to maybe alleviate that issue, but otherwise it is what it is.

Disclaimer is that I am no cap expert and could be slightly wrong somewhere here.

One thing is that cutting a player does not relieve their cap hit.

But: this is another reason to emphasis why the magic cannot have both Caldwell-Pope and Simons on the roster. If Caldwell-Pope's salary was the basis for acquiring Simons, all is fine (short term at least).

In Jett's case declining his 4th year option wouldn't relieve the cap hit? Genuine question. I shouldn't have used the term cut.

Agree though, hard to have both. Doable, but not ideal at all.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

OK just quick maths, if they acquire Simons and decline Mo they are a 1st apron team next year. Pick up Mo's option they would be a 2nd apron team which is not happening.

Looking past next year, if they extend him to the Malik Monk deal with some inflation factored in 4/84 then they would have

Paolo lets say - 40
Franz- 41.7
Suggs- 32.4
Caldwell-Pope- 21.6
Simons- 21
Wendell- 18
Isaac- 14.5
AB 10
Rookie 1- 4
Rookie 2- 4
TDS- 4
Jett- 7

218 million which is an apron team and still needs a few minimum salaries to fill out the roster. Can cut Jett or Isaac to get slightly under though. If Paolo takes 50 million it becomes really difficult. Caldwell-Pope would be gone the next year, but then AB would need extension if worth it and if not you are back to the same guard problem.

Could trade 1sts to unload Wendell, but then filling out depth with 2nds and undrafted players.

So trading and extending Simons locks us into this roster for a few years with little flexibility aside from hitting on our remaining draft picks. Worth considering. Is Simons the guy worth giving up our flexibility for? Maybe, maybe not. Could find a way to work Caldwell-Pope or Isaac into the deal to maybe alleviate that issue, but otherwise it is what it is.

Disclaimer is that I am no cap expert and could be slightly wrong somewhere here.

One thing is that cutting a player does not relieve their cap hit.

But: this is another reason to emphasis why the magic cannot have both Caldwell-Pope and Simons on the roster. If Caldwell-Pope's salary was the basis for acquiring Simons, all is fine (short term at least).

You'd hope that the FO would be smart enough to at least trade Isaac and get someone that fits better or can be relied on more. I ultimately think that's what will happen and then it might allow for both KCP/Simons to stay on. I'd 100% be looking at moving WCJ to whoever would take him without a 1st as long as we get a depth piece.

[drsd]

In Jett's case declining his 4th year option wouldn't relieve the cap hit? Genuine question. I shouldn't have used the term cut.

Agree though, hard to have both. Doable, but not ideal at all.

There is a team option for a number of players for the 2026/27 season: Anthony, Black, Howard, and da Silva.
Caldwell-Pope has a player option, so maybe he leaves on his own.

[CocoaFan]

Caldwell-Pope has been a Gary Harris clone this season. Orlando fans need to accept that the Magic need scoring from the 2-slot. Caldwell-Pope, Howard and a FRP has to be enough for Simons. Right?

And it is a trade that makes both teams better.

That seems like too much for Simons. I think you could get away with Cole + Jett + our 1st round pick this year

I would also be fine with this, but the trade checker says this isn't enough to match salaries.

Throw in Caleb Houstan as pure filler (expiring this year) and I think it works

[CocoaFan]

Caldwell-Pope has been a Gary Harris clone this season. Orlando fans need to accept that the Magic need scoring from the 2-slot. Caldwell-Pope, Howard and a FRP has to be enough for Simons. Right?

And it is a trade that makes both teams better.

That seems like too much for Simons. I think you could get away with Cole + Jett + our 1st round pick this year

Conceptually I agree with you. But: if the Magic is to bring in Simons, Caldwell-Pope needs to be traded. Either he is part of a three-team deal, or Portland, a team that would not see Caldwell-Pope as an asset, would "need more".
I agree that Orlando and Portland could/should call up a contender that needs a SG (Denver?) and work out something fair.

Anthony, Caldwell-Pope, and Denver's FRP for Simons and a Denver big (?DeAndre Jordan?) would be fine for Orlando.


p.s. you had me at "trade Anthony "

He's always my first choice for heading out . Wouldn't mind seeing Harris, Carter Jr., and Houstan following him too.

[CocoaFan]

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer, but does anyone actually believe Weltman would make an in season trade for Simons or Sexton. Remember last year when we could have picked up Tyus Jones for a couple 2nd's which really would have improved our playoff chances and he didn't want to hurt Markelle's feelings or upset "our chemistry". Best case is a summer trade if we're not still evaluating Cole after 5 years and Wendell and others.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

27 5, 2 with 2 steals 1 turnover for +25 on a win vs Charlotte. 8-16 with 4-10 from 3.

Goodness his price tag will be too rich for this FO lol

[DusterBuster]

27 5, 2 with 2 steals 1 turnover for +25 on a win vs Charlotte. 8-16 with 4-10 from 3.

Goodness his price tag will be too rich for this FO lol

Unfortunately the price tag will end up too rich for most teams I fear. I’m beginning to think Cronin won’t let Simons go for less than 2 FRPs at this point, which means they’ll probably keep him and end up pissing away Scoots early career to the point where they’ll end up moving him 2nd rounders and overpaying Ant long term.

At this point I’m praying Ant asks for a trade out since Cronin is a gutless GM who doesn’t make a trade unless forced into it.

[Idiosyncratic]

27 5, 2 with 2 steals 1 turnover for +25 on a win vs Charlotte. 8-16 with 4-10 from 3.

Goodness his price tag will be too rich for this FO lol

Unfortunately the price tag will end up too rich for most teams I fear. I’m beginning to think Cronin won’t let Simons go for less than 2 FRPs at this point, which means they’ll probably keep him and end up pissing away Scoots early career to the point where they’ll end up moving him 2nd rounders and overpaying Ant long term.

At this point I’m praying Ant asks for a trade out since Cronin is a gutless GM who doesn’t make a trade unless forced into it.

I don't think NBA teams are going to be changing their valuations game to game like some fans do though.

I think Simons just makes too much money. The Magic ultimately aren't going to want to spend a 1st to get into a bad cap situation next year IMO. Extending him would also be awkward unless he takes a below market deal. Those are my final thoughts on Simons. I like the player fit, but the salary is so awkward that spending a 1st for it just feels bad.

[DusterBuster]

27 5, 2 with 2 steals 1 turnover for +25 on a win vs Charlotte. 8-16 with 4-10 from 3.

Goodness his price tag will be too rich for this FO lol

Unfortunately the price tag will end up too rich for most teams I fear. I’m beginning to think Cronin won’t let Simons go for less than 2 FRPs at this point, which means they’ll probably keep him and end up pissing away Scoots early career to the point where they’ll end up moving him 2nd rounders and overpaying Ant long term.

At this point I’m praying Ant asks for a trade out since Cronin is a gutless GM who doesn’t make a trade unless forced into it.

I don't think NBA teams are going to be changing their valuations game to game like some fans do though.

I think Simons just makes too much money. The Magic ultimately aren't going to want to spend a 1st to get into a bad cap situation next year IMO. Extending him would also be awkward unless he takes a below market deal. Those are my final thoughts on Simons. I like the player fit, but the salary is so awkward that spending a 1st for it just feels bad.

I agree, I also believe Cronin also has always held that regard of Simons, it's only getting reinforced.

Also, it's INSANE to think Simons makes too much money in this era of the NBA.

Now... extensions are another story... That's why the price tag of getting a player matters, it's why teams don't want to break the bank for a player on a expiring deal. That said, teams also don't really operate that way, they tend to think about extensions when the time is right for it. At this point, a team trading for Simons (or any player on a contract of his length) would just want to see what the player does first in their system with their roster before really putting excessive thought into extensions. Your point is valid, but also not a reason to not trade for a player that can help you in the semi-short team.

If he blows up and is a 25ppg scorer for you and the team is flourishing, then you pay the freight and are fine to do so. If he's just "good" and only getting high teens averages with occasional great games, then you let him walk and cut your losses. That's just the nature of trades and why teams try to find a balance for value.

[Idiosyncratic]

Unfortunately the price tag will end up too rich for most teams I fear. I’m beginning to think Cronin won’t let Simons go for less than 2 FRPs at this point, which means they’ll probably keep him and end up pissing away Scoots early career to the point where they’ll end up moving him 2nd rounders and overpaying Ant long term.

At this point I’m praying Ant asks for a trade out since Cronin is a gutless GM who doesn’t make a trade unless forced into it.

I don't think NBA teams are going to be changing their valuations game to game like some fans do though.

I think Simons just makes too much money. The Magic ultimately aren't going to want to spend a 1st to get into a bad cap situation next year IMO. Extending him would also be awkward unless he takes a below market deal. Those are my final thoughts on Simons. I like the player fit, but the salary is so awkward that spending a 1st for it just feels bad.

I agree, I also believe Cronin also has always held that regard of Simons, it's only getting reinforced.

Also, it's INSANE to think Simons makes too much money in this era of the NBA.

Now... extensions are another story... That's why the price tag of getting a player matters, it's why teams don't want to break the bank for a player on a expiring deal. That said, teams also don't really operate that way, they tend to think about extensions when the time is right for it. At this point, a team trading for Simons (or any player on a contract of his length) would just want to see what the player does first in their system with their roster before really putting excessive thought into extensions. Your point is valid, but also not a reason to not trade for a player that can help you in the semi-short team.

If he blows up and is a 25ppg scorer for you and the team is flourishing, then you pay the freight and are fine to do so. If he's just "good" and only getting high teens averages with occasional great games, then you let him walk and cut your losses. That's just the nature of trades and why teams try to find a balance for value.

One of the big debates here is how valuable the next 1.5 years really are. Believe it or not our core isn't even much older than what y'all have in Portland. There are many here who want help now, and then there's me (and maybe some others) who think Paolo and Franz are so young that trading for immediate help isn't that crucial.

A lot to say that I'm thinking beyond 1.5 years with any acquisition. I believe acquiring Simons as is, puts us as an apron team next year. I just don't think they are going to want to pay a 1st for someone who isn't a great fit financially. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. And I think I would agree with that logic.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

Unfortunately the price tag will end up too rich for most teams I fear. I’m beginning to think Cronin won’t let Simons go for less than 2 FRPs at this point, which means they’ll probably keep him and end up pissing away Scoots early career to the point where they’ll end up moving him 2nd rounders and overpaying Ant long term.

At this point I’m praying Ant asks for a trade out since Cronin is a gutless GM who doesn’t make a trade unless forced into it.

I don't think NBA teams are going to be changing their valuations game to game like some fans do though.

I think Simons just makes too much money. The Magic ultimately aren't going to want to spend a 1st to get into a bad cap situation next year IMO. Extending him would also be awkward unless he takes a below market deal. Those are my final thoughts on Simons. I like the player fit, but the salary is so awkward that spending a 1st for it just feels bad.

I agree, I also believe Cronin also has always held that regard of Simons, it's only getting reinforced.

Also, it's INSANE to think Simons makes too much money in this era of the NBA.

Now... extensions are another story... That's why the price tag of getting a player matters, it's why teams don't want to break the bank for a player on a expiring deal. That said, teams also don't really operate that way, they tend to think about extensions when the time is right for it. At this point, a team trading for Simons (or any player on a contract of his length) would just want to see what the player does first in their system with their roster before really putting excessive thought into extensions. Your point is valid, but also not a reason to not trade for a player that can help you in the semi-short team.

If he blows up and is a 25ppg scorer for you and the team is flourishing, then you pay the freight and are fine to do so. If he's just "good" and only getting high teens averages with occasional great games, then you let him walk and cut your losses. That's just the nature of trades and why teams try to find a balance for value.

Orlando could figure it out pretty easily money wise especially if the deal is Gary + Cole & Denver 1st.

When Simons would be due for an extension Magic can move Isaac or cut him for 8M. Not to mention they can also move WCJ or KCP money. KCPs 3rd year is player option as well so depending on how things go he could opt out.

FO shouldn’t be worried about the extension until it gets time. 1.5 years of Simon’s would help them decide if he fits or do they pivot.

[eyriq]

Also, it's INSANE to think Simons makes too much money in this era of the NBA.

He's an 18% cap hit. That's an average team's 3rd highest paid player. He's no where near good enough to be an average team's 3rd highest paid player. He's even further away from being a playoff contender's third highest paid player.

He's overpaid. By a lot. There's no way his next contract is anywhere near an 18% cap hit. He'll take a relative salary decrease and most likely an absolute one as well.

We can afford to overpay right now, we have the cap sheet of a tanking team. By the time he's due an extension though we'll have your more typical cap sheet and have no stomach to overpay anyone.

[DusterBuster]

I don't think NBA teams are going to be changing their valuations game to game like some fans do though.

I think Simons just makes too much money. The Magic ultimately aren't going to want to spend a 1st to get into a bad cap situation next year IMO. Extending him would also be awkward unless he takes a below market deal. Those are my final thoughts on Simons. I like the player fit, but the salary is so awkward that spending a 1st for it just feels bad.

I agree, I also believe Cronin also has always held that regard of Simons, it's only getting reinforced.

Also, it's INSANE to think Simons makes too much money in this era of the NBA.

Now... extensions are another story... That's why the price tag of getting a player matters, it's why teams don't want to break the bank for a player on a expiring deal. That said, teams also don't really operate that way, they tend to think about extensions when the time is right for it. At this point, a team trading for Simons (or any player on a contract of his length) would just want to see what the player does first in their system with their roster before really putting excessive thought into extensions. Your point is valid, but also not a reason to not trade for a player that can help you in the semi-short team.

If he blows up and is a 25ppg scorer for you and the team is flourishing, then you pay the freight and are fine to do so. If he's just "good" and only getting high teens averages with occasional great games, then you let him walk and cut your losses. That's just the nature of trades and why teams try to find a balance for value.

One of the big debates here is how valuable the next 1.5 years really are. Believe it or not our core isn't even much older than what y'all have in Portland. There are many here who want help now, and then there's me (and maybe some others) who think Paolo and Franz are so young that trading for immediate help isn't that crucial.

A lot to say that I'm thinking beyond 1.5 years with any acquisition. I believe acquiring Simons as is, puts us as an apron team next year. I just don't think they are going to want to pay a 1st for someone who isn't a great fit financially. I could be wrong, but that's my guess. And I think I would agree with that logic.

Thinking beyond 1.5 years in todays NBA will end up causing you paralysis as a organization. You end up going down a rabbit hold that will make you never want to make a trade. Get the thought.

[DaVoiceMaster]

How close is Isaac and the better Orlando/Denver pick for Simons?