2024-2025 Regular Season Game 70: Houston Rockets (44-25) at Orlando Magic (32-37) - 7pm

[Fortune Teller]

JI had 3 rebounds and 3 stocks in 8 minutes... and Mosley decides his defense wasn't needed in the 2nd half. Brilliant.

I have to assume there’s something physical going on with Isaac for him to have this many single digit minute games this month.

He basically plays one stretch and then doesn’t come back in. It’s like his body can’t warm back up or something?

I sincerely hope it’s not because Mosley wants to play an 11 man rotation.

We're nearing the end of the season and Isaac's body is likely shutting down. He was spent in the playoffs last season.

Last year Isaac averaged 15.8 mpg. This year? 15.7. He'll never be a guy who can even play 20 mpg. Mos knows it, Jeff knows, Isaac knows it. Yet every summer half this board will pencil him into the starting lineup and argue that when he does play he's a DPOY.

[Rainwater]

Man Paolo is trying

Paolo just wants to win.

Man, our guards give us nothing.

That he wants to win stops the second the opponent got the ball. Again, as long as he defends and rebounds like this, he better becomes a top 3-5 offensive player in the leaque.
With his physical negatives on defense (footspeed, quick jump, wingspan...) he can't afford to play that lazy on defense and at the same time showing bad Def. Bball iq too.

While he did have some lapses his defense was pretty good yesterday. I love how he battled Adam’s down low. But I disagree he does need to improve his transition defense and defensive awareness.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

It's pretty obvious Goga and Paolo don't play well together since they occupy the same space/lanes. It's why Goga has started to try and shoot 3's because as long as Paolo is on the floor he'll be standing in the corners most of the time or top of key picks. That also doesn't help our spacing because now that Goga defender can hedge heavily.

Last night Paolo and Goga shared the floor for 4ish minutes or so, Paolo didn't score once and Goga got 3. That's not a recipe for success and it's very likely why WCJ gets a lot more time with Paolo because he can at least shoot the rock even though this year has been painful.

[Knightro]

Bit context

post all star:

7th worst record (4-12)
8th worst offensive rating
12th defensive rating
11th worst net rating

Like, we are worst than Wizards. By two wins.

His stats don't translate into anything. Neither we win, nor our offense is good. It's just him playing for numbers.

I'm certainly not suggesting it's going to be this way forever, but this is a lot closer to the reality in the present day than people are ready to accept.

There's a lot of empty calories at the moment.

[Black and Blue]

It's pretty obvious Goga and Paolo don't play well together since they occupy the same space/lanes. It's why Goga has started to try and shoot 3's because as long as Paolo is on the floor he'll be standing in the corners most of the time or top of key picks. That also doesn't help our spacing because now that Goga defender can hedge heavily.

Last night Paolo and Goga shared the floor for 4ish minutes or so, Paolo didn't score once and Goga got 3. That's not a recipe for success and it's very likely why WCJ gets a lot more time with Paolo because he can at least shoot the rock even though this year has been painful.

This is spot on! And please, anyone who is clamoring for Goga to start, refer back to this post.

The bottom line is this roster construction is a mess for many reasons, but chief among them is how badly many of the pieces compliment Paolo and Franz. We need to surround them with playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing, and defense. Many of these players give us defense (sometimes) and little else. Many of the playmaking threats like AB and Da Silva just aren't there yet to be consistent.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jett Howard, but him being an actual NBA level talent would help so many issues on this team given his skillset. It can't be overstated how idiotic a pick that was over Gradey Dick and Cam Whitmore, who all of us wanted in that spot. If that was a pick from ownership (something I'm increasingly starting to believe given the Michigan ties), they need to be told never to meddle again.

[eyriq]

AB, Harris, and KCP being critical in explaining victories and losses is wild. That is way too much leverage for role players, right? Why have they been so important?

[cedric76]

It's pretty obvious Goga and Paolo don't play well together since they occupy the same space/lanes. It's why Goga has started to try and shoot 3's because as long as Paolo is on the floor he'll be standing in the corners most of the time or top of key picks. That also doesn't help our spacing because now that Goga defender can hedge heavily.

Last night Paolo and Goga shared the floor for 4ish minutes or so, Paolo didn't score once and Goga got 3. That's not a recipe for success and it's very likely why WCJ gets a lot more time with Paolo because he can at least shoot the rock even though this year has been painful.

This is spot on! And please, anyone who is clamoring for Goga to start, refer back to this post.

The bottom line is this roster construction is a mess for many reasons, but chief among them is how badly many of the pieces compliment Paolo and Franz. We need to surround them with playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing, and defense. Many of these players give us defense (sometimes) and little else. Many of the playmaking threats like AB and Da Silva just aren't there yet to be consistent.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jett Howard, but him being an actual NBA level talent would help so many issues on this team given his skillset. It can't be overstated how idiotic a pick that was over Gradey Dick and Cam Whitmore, who all of us wanted in that spot. If that was a pick from ownership (something I'm increasingly starting to believe given the Michigan ties), they need to be told never to meddle again.

On paper he has what we need : playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing

on Paper, i just dont understand why he doesnt deliver

[thelead]

Bit context

post all star:

7th worst record (4-12)
8th worst offensive rating
12th defensive rating
11th worst net rating

Like, we are worst than Wizards. By two wins.

His stats don't translate into anything. Neither we win, nor our offense is good. It's just him playing for numbers.

I'm certainly not suggesting it's going to be this way forever, but this is a lot closer to the reality in the present day than people are ready to accept.

There's a lot of empty calories at the moment.

Meanwhile, everyone acknowledges that WCJ has been a mess, KCP has been a mess, CoJo is starting in 2025, AB had been wildly inconsistent, TDS is giving us nothing, Harris doesn’t even shoot anymore, Goga hasn’t been the same, JI is barely playing, and Franz is in a massive offensive slump….

But Paolo. Paolo is the problem since the all-star break….

If his efficiency was what it was for most of his career, I’d be right with you guys but he has seemingly fixed that issue or is on a really long hot-streak. Only time will tell but I’m definitely not blaming the guy putting up 30ppg on 60 TS%.

[KillMonger]

It's pretty obvious Goga and Paolo don't play well together since they occupy the same space/lanes. It's why Goga has started to try and shoot 3's because as long as Paolo is on the floor he'll be standing in the corners most of the time or top of key picks. That also doesn't help our spacing because now that Goga defender can hedge heavily.

Last night Paolo and Goga shared the floor for 4ish minutes or so, Paolo didn't score once and Goga got 3. That's not a recipe for success and it's very likely why WCJ gets a lot more time with Paolo because he can at least shoot the rock even though this year has been painful.

This is spot on! And please, anyone who is clamoring for Goga to start, refer back to this post.

The bottom line is this roster construction is a mess for many reasons, but chief among them is how badly many of the pieces compliment Paolo and Franz. We need to surround them with playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing, and defense. Many of these players give us defense (sometimes) and little else. Many of the playmaking threats like AB and Da Silva just aren't there yet to be consistent.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jett Howard, but him being an actual NBA level talent would help so many issues on this team given his skillset. It can't be overstated how idiotic a pick that was over Gradey Dick and Cam Whitmore, who all of us wanted in that spot. If that was a pick from ownership (something I'm increasingly starting to believe given the Michigan ties), they need to be told never to meddle again.

On paper he has what we need : playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing

on Paper, i just dont understand why he doesnt deliver

he's a year 2 player....is he expected to be delivering at this point in his career really? i keep saying man people are spoiled because of paolo and franz being good since year 1.....that's not really normal....people should only be expecting flashes from players that young normally....plus what can he show when one game he's playing and the other he isn't......the people we really should be worried about not delivering is the so called "Vets" we have on the team.....the guys that's been in the league multiple years and should know better and be playing better because of their "experience"......Look at Quinten grimes, only now 4 years in he's starting to string together some good basketball after being on 4 different teams in 4 years

[Knightro]

Meanwhile, everyone acknowledges that WCJ has been a mess, KCP has been a mess, CoJo is starting in 2025, AB had been wildly inconsistent, TDS is giving us nothing, Harris doesn’t even shoot anymore, Goga hasn’t been the same, JI is barely playing, and Franz is in a massive offensive slump….

But Paolo. Paolo is the problem since the all-star break….

If his efficiency was what it was for most of his career, I’d be right with you guys but he has seemingly fixed that issue or is on a really long hot-streak. Only time will tell but I’m definitely not blaming the guy putting up 30ppg on 60 TS%.

Those guys are all role players though. Role players have wide variance in their production and impact game to game, even quarter to quarter.

You are also way to focused in on the individual stats for Paolo.

The real question you should be asking is "does the team overall play better or play worse when player X is on the court and when he's off the court?"

And in Paolo's case, for quite literally all three seasons of his NBA career, the answer has been "the team plays worse with him" which should be a much bigger red flag for fans than it is.

And until that ultimately changes, his stats, no matter how much more efficient they become - are ultimately a bit hollow.

Here's Paolo



Here's Franz



Here's Suggs




You also can't really just say "oh well the team around him sucks" as an excuse for Paolo, especially now that Franz has been a high usage player the last two years and the team hasn't sucked at all when he's on the court.

Paolo is a very talented basketball player, but right now he's closer to Zach LaVine in terms of "good stats, low impact" than he is some actual superstar.

[eyriq]

Paolo is a very talented basketball player, but right now he's closer to Zach LaVine in terms of "good stats, low impact" than he is some actual superstar.

Or prime Randle.

[cedric76]

This is spot on! And please, anyone who is clamoring for Goga to start, refer back to this post.

The bottom line is this roster construction is a mess for many reasons, but chief among them is how badly many of the pieces compliment Paolo and Franz. We need to surround them with playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing, and defense. Many of these players give us defense (sometimes) and little else. Many of the playmaking threats like AB and Da Silva just aren't there yet to be consistent.

I don't know what the heck is going on with Jett Howard, but him being an actual NBA level talent would help so many issues on this team given his skillset. It can't be overstated how idiotic a pick that was over Gradey Dick and Cam Whitmore, who all of us wanted in that spot. If that was a pick from ownership (something I'm increasingly starting to believe given the Michigan ties), they need to be told never to meddle again.

On paper he has what we need : playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing

on Paper, i just dont understand why he doesnt deliver

he's a year 2 player....is he expected to be delivering at this point in his career really? i keep saying man people are spoiled because of paolo and franz being good since year 1.....that's not really normal....people should only be expecting flashes from players that young normally....plus what can he show when one game he's playing and the other he isn't......the people we really should be worried about not delivering is the so called "Vets" we have on the team.....the guys that's been in the league multiple years and should know better and be playing better because of their "experience"......Look at Quinten grimes, only now 4 years in he's starting to string together some good basketball after being on 4 different teams in 4 years

Jett is only 21, i have not given up on him, people calling him a Bust are clueless, for that matter, calling ANY player under 22 a Bust is clueless.

playmaking: He has underrated playmaking skills
3 point shooting: He has a very good 3-point stroke
Spacing: Defense are scaed to leave him open so he provide spacing
Defense: Work in progress but he has the tools to be a above average defender

On Paper ; Booker Lite

But so far he is proving me wrong but time will tell lol

[MartinsIzAfraud]

On paper he has what we need : playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing

on Paper, i just dont understand why he doesnt deliver

he's a year 2 player....is he expected to be delivering at this point in his career really? i keep saying man people are spoiled because of paolo and franz being good since year 1.....that's not really normal....people should only be expecting flashes from players that young normally....plus what can he show when one game he's playing and the other he isn't......the people we really should be worried about not delivering is the so called "Vets" we have on the team.....the guys that's been in the league multiple years and should know better and be playing better because of their "experience"......Look at Quinten grimes, only now 4 years in he's starting to string together some good basketball after being on 4 different teams in 4 years

Jett is only 21, i have not given up on him, people calling him a Bust are clueless, for that matter, calling ANY player under 22 a Bust is clueless.

playmaking: He has underrated playmaking skills
3 point shooting: He has a very good 3-point stroke
Spacing: Defense are scaed to leave him open so he provide spacing
Defense: Work in progress but he has the tools to be a above average defender

On Paper ; Booker Lite

But so far he is proving me wrong but time will tell lol

he is 1000% a bust at the pick we took him at, he was FORCED to play his first year in the G League because he was THAT BAD. Tell me the last time a top 12 drafted player had to spend the 1st year in the G League and in his 2nd year could barely get minutes on an injury riddled team.

He's closer to being out of the league than a solid role player in the NBA and that's not some sort of hot take.

[basketballRob]

On paper he has what we need : playmaking, 3 point shooting, spacing

on Paper, i just dont understand why he doesnt deliver

he's a year 2 player....is he expected to be delivering at this point in his career really? i keep saying man people are spoiled because of paolo and franz being good since year 1.....that's not really normal....people should only be expecting flashes from players that young normally....plus what can he show when one game he's playing and the other he isn't......the people we really should be worried about not delivering is the so called "Vets" we have on the team.....the guys that's been in the league multiple years and should know better and be playing better because of their "experience"......Look at Quinten grimes, only now 4 years in he's starting to string together some good basketball after being on 4 different teams in 4 years

Jett is only 21, i have not given up on him, people calling him a Bust are clueless, for that matter, calling ANY player under 22 a Bust is clueless.

playmaking: He has underrated playmaking skills
3 point shooting: He has a very good 3-point stroke
Spacing: Defense are scaed to leave him open so he provide spacing
Defense: Work in progress but he has the tools to be a above average defender

On Paper ; Booker Lite

But so far he is proving me wrong but time will tell lol

https://youtu.be/YY8APrYU2Gs?feature=shared

[cedric76]

he's a year 2 player....is he expected to be delivering at this point in his career really? i keep saying man people are spoiled because of paolo and franz being good since year 1.....that's not really normal....people should only be expecting flashes from players that young normally....plus what can he show when one game he's playing and the other he isn't......the people we really should be worried about not delivering is the so called "Vets" we have on the team.....the guys that's been in the league multiple years and should know better and be playing better because of their "experience"......Look at Quinten grimes, only now 4 years in he's starting to string together some good basketball after being on 4 different teams in 4 years

Jett is only 21, i have not given up on him, people calling him a Bust are clueless, for that matter, calling ANY player under 22 a Bust is clueless.

playmaking: He has underrated playmaking skills
3 point shooting: He has a very good 3-point stroke
Spacing: Defense are scaed to leave him open so he provide spacing
Defense: Work in progress but he has the tools to be a above average defender

On Paper ; Booker Lite

But so far he is proving me wrong but time will tell lol

he is 1000% a bust at the pick we took him at, he was FORCED to play his first year in the G League because he was THAT BAD. Tell me the last time a top 12 drafted player had to spend the 1st year in the G League and in his 2nd year could barely get minutes on an injury riddled team.

He's closer to being out of the league than a solid role player in the NBA and that's not some sort of hot take.

As mentioned, clueless, you proved my point

[pepe1991]

Bit context

post all star:

7th worst record (4-12)
8th worst offensive rating
12th defensive rating
11th worst net rating

Like, we are worst than Wizards. By two wins.

His stats don't translate into anything. Neither we win, nor our offense is good. It's just him playing for numbers.

I'm certainly not suggesting it's going to be this way forever, but this is a lot closer to the reality in the present day than people are ready to accept.

There's a lot of empty calories at the moment.

Meanwhile, everyone acknowledges that WCJ has been a mess, KCP has been a mess, CoJo is starting in 2025, AB had been wildly inconsistent, TDS is giving us nothing, Harris doesn’t even shoot anymore, Goga hasn’t been the same, JI is barely playing, and Franz is in a massive offensive slump….

But Paolo. Paolo is the problem since the all-star break….

If his efficiency was what it was for most of his career, I’d be right with you guys but he has seemingly fixed that issue or is on a really long hot-streak. Only time will tell but I’m definitely not blaming the guy putting up 30ppg on 60 TS%.

Okey let me make a case like this.

Post all star break, "slumping Franz" still averages 21-5-4. So he is still fine.
Post all star break Cole averages 11 ppg on 47% for 3.
Post all star game KCP averages 9 ppg but on 50% FG & 37% for 3

We are largly same team from last year when team won 47 games. What changed?

Well this changed

2023-24


Paolo 17 shots, Franz 13, 4 other guys getting 7 shots each, at last


now we are here





It's too jarring to not notice. Paolo and Franz are playing for stats. Or, at very least they are trying to win by playing basketball in wrong way.
Near 40 shots taken a game, between 2 players is something that even Wade and Lebron didn't do. Matter of fact, during 66-16 season, neither averaged 18 shots a game. Franz and Paolo, both, average MORE than that.

We can get them more "help" but it will still mean nothing until they, as players, change ways. Until we play "my turn- your turn" on offense for 48 min, and other 3 players aren't involved at all, we are going nowhere. And that won't change until- two of them change.

I'm often more harsh on Paolo because his defense also sucks along with very selfish offense but Franz does whole lot of self-shot-calling as well.

Back to 23-24 vs 24-25 and crazy shooting
Post all star game team stats last year -112,8 offensive rating, 108,2 defensive rating = 4,7 net rating
Post all star game team stats this year - 110,6 offensive rating, 112,7 def. rating = -2,7 net rating


So i will ask you again, what those stats mean to you , if they literally make team worst in every single aspect?

How that isn't stat padding?

Post all star game this is list of players who shoot more FGA than Paolo ( and their team record):

SGA - 22,1 - team record 11-2
Tatum - 21,5, team record 8-3
Luka Dončić - 21 - team record 10-4
Lebron James 20,8 - team record 8-2 (got hurt)

Paolo - 20,5 - team record 4-12?




Just to drive home my point- in order to have good offense you need to have people taking shots, even if they miss it. You have to trust your teammates. Freezing them , and that's execlly what Franz and Paolo often do, does nothing for a team.
Why Magic beat Cavs? Because they found Black for two corner 3s, Cavs gambled and lost.
Why Magic won so many games last year ? Because they shared ball WAAAAAAAAY more and played team defense.

This year, ESPECIALLY post all star break, they do opposite. They play seflish basketball and mediocre defense ( by their standards), but because offense is so bad, they can't win on just mediocre defense.
Franz and Paolo average fat stats, their stats are comparable to SGA and J Will, yet team is going on opposite direction.

Watch OKC shot distribution through games, in one of games vs Denver , SGA took less shots than I Hart, as much shots as Dort.
It's not just them, Celtics drive hot hand no matter who that guy is.

How is that comparable to our team? Houstan has best shooting night of his life and we feed him with.... 9 shots? Wtf?

[pepe1991]

Just for sake of argument, i don't think Franz and Paolo are only to blame for current situation.
Main issue is Weltman who built this mess, than GM, than people who enable and encourage Franz and Paolo to have games with 50% usage rate like it's pick up game, not team sport. That includes coach that can't draw play to save his life.

But in same time you would hope your stars have advanced mind about basketball like Lebron to know that more isn't always better. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be a case.

[thelead]

Paolo came back right when Suggs went down. That’s the ‘coincidence’. And I’m not claiming Paolo is a superstar right now… just that he is the least of our problems.

[Bergmaniac]

Franz was +18 in 38 minutes.

In the 10 minutes he was not on the floor tonight, the Magic were outscored by 26 points.

I just don’t like the +/- stat. This wasn’t Franz worse game but he didn’t play well either. He struggled for the most part yet had a postive +/-. He shoot 19 time to get 20 points and 6 turnovers.

The +/- makes it seem like Franz is the reason why the Magic played well when he was on the court when you would actually have to watch the game play by play to see if that was the case.

This is no dig at at Franz but I just hate the stat.

The Magic's defense turns into absolute garbage when Franz isn't on the court.

He wasn't all that good tonight offensively, but the defense just completely craters every time he sits.

We had 170 DRTG in the 10 minutes he was on the bench in this game, just beyond awful. That was pretty much the ball game. Our offense was actually decent overall, considering the opposition, but these 10 minutes killed us.

As for Paolo, lately he has been playing very well on offense, I don't think him shooting a lot is a much of a problem with the current roster we have as long as he is efficient as he's been that lately. There has been time he has been padding his stats late in game, but that's no big deal. The main problem is on the other end, it's just undeniable at this point he is hurting the defence quite a bit and we are a team which needs to be elite on defence to be good. It's especially noticeable in the minutes he is on the court without Franz we have been quite bad defensively in them ever since we drafted him. His transition D in particular is just non-existent way too often which for a team built around players hustling as much as possible is a significant problem, hard to motivate the role players to give 100% on D when the franchise player isn't bothering to run back on D on most plays.

[eyriq]

PRR posted this

Since the All-Star Break:

Magic overall net rating: -2.2 (110.6/112.7)
With Paolo On: +0 (110.1/110.1)
With Paolo Off: -4.6 (108.4/113.0)