Around the League: 2024-25 Season

[Rainwater]

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They got demolished by 30pts againtst the Caitlyn-less IND Fever....

Didn’t know WCJ was dating Reece, nice!

[Rainwater]

Yeah, game two was what i was expecting. It’s very hard to win a title without a superstar. Indiana really ain’t that good, really don’t think they are much better than the Magic. Kinda sad they are the ones who came out of the east.

[GelbeWand09]

Despite all the hype but is Halliburton the worst scorer and most unreliable star offensive player of a maybe NBA champion since Rasheed Wallace? Guy is "bad" every second game but in the end he hits a miracle shot and nobody talks about it.

[pepe1991]

Yeah, game two was what i was expecting. It’s very hard to win a title without a superstar. Indiana really ain’t that good, really don’t think they are much better than the Magic. Kinda sad they are the ones who came out of the east.

Haliburton is superstar.

OKC is 68-14 team and play as such. You can nitpick their problems, but they are simply best team in nba.


Nuggets vs OKC was real finals. East has quality issues for past 30 years, it's always 2-3 teams deep. In between last Jordan's title and Pistons winning, Eastern conference teams in finals couldn't win more than 2 games. ( 5 seasons, 6 wins in finals total) .

And in general, from 1999- 2024, teams from West won 17 titles.

[Rainwater]

Yeah, game two was what i was expecting. It’s very hard to win a title without a superstar. Indiana really ain’t that good, really don’t think they are much better than the Magic. Kinda sad they are the ones who came out of the east.

Haliburton is superstar.

OKC is 68-14 team and play as such. You can nitpick their problems, but they are simply best team in nba.


Nuggets vs OKC was real finals. East has quality issues for past 30 years, it's always 2-3 teams deep. In between last Jordan's title and Pistons winning, Eastern conference teams in finals couldn't win more than 2 games. ( 5 seasons, 6 wins in finals total) .

And in general, from 1999- 2024, teams from West won 17 titles.

I do agree with what said about the east and OKC but while I do believe Haliburton is a good player, I wouldn't call him a superstar. Much of the Pacers games are team wins rather than them being dependent on one guy. They do have a cast full of good role players, so I don't blame them. Haliburton is often invisible in many games. Game one is a good example; Haliburton really was not doing much until he put up the game winner. Guys like Nesmith, Nembhand, Turner, Siakam, and Toppin did much more in the fourth then Haliburton in my opinion.

[eyriq]

SGA with the vest, Turner with the dunce cap

[pepe1991]

Yeah, game two was what i was expecting. It’s very hard to win a title without a superstar. Indiana really ain’t that good, really don’t think they are much better than the Magic. Kinda sad they are the ones who came out of the east.

Haliburton is superstar.

OKC is 68-14 team and play as such. You can nitpick their problems, but they are simply best team in nba.


Nuggets vs OKC was real finals. East has quality issues for past 30 years, it's always 2-3 teams deep. In between last Jordan's title and Pistons winning, Eastern conference teams in finals couldn't win more than 2 games. ( 5 seasons, 6 wins in finals total) .

And in general, from 1999- 2024, teams from West won 17 titles.

I do agree with what said about the east and OKC but while I do believe Haliburton is good player, I wouldn't call him a superstar. Much of the Pacers games are team wins rather than them being dependent on one guy. They do have a cast full of good role players, so I don't blame. Haliburton is often invisible in many games. Game one is a good example; Haliburton really was not doing much until he put up the game winner. Guys like Nesmith, Nembhand, Turner, Siakam, and Toppin did much more in the fourth then Haliburton in my opinion.

He isn't traditional superstar as some buckets -go-get em player, but i think he makes everybody around him much better.
Like, tonight in first quarter, he didn't look great but Pacers had lead, but as soon as he was benched OKC went on massive run.

He is like updated Steve Nash, great at controlling pace and including everybody.

I actually like that part of his game, that he isn't heavy offensive load carrier if he doesn't have to be. So deep in playoffs he only took 20 or more FGA three times, twice in OT games.

It feels like OKC will beat them without much problems, but result is still 1-1 heading back to Indiana.

Maybe i'm just Haliburton sucker i really loved his game back with Kings.

[eyriq]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

[Bensational]

He isn't traditional superstar as some buckets -go-get em player, but i think he makes everybody around him much better.
Like, tonight in first quarter, he didn't look great but Pacers had lead, but as soon as he was benched OKC went on massive run.

He is like updated Steve Nash, great at controlling pace and including everybody.

I actually like that part of his game, that he isn't heavy offensive load carrier if he doesn't have to be. So deep in playoffs he only took 20 or more FGA three times, twice in OT games.

It feels like OKC will beat them without much problems, but result is still 1-1 heading back to Indiana.

Maybe i'm just Haliburton sucker i really loved his game back with Kings.

You’re speaking my language here! I love all that about Hali’s game! I think that part of his game sets the tone and culture for the rest of the team, too. They “trust the pass” because he does and because it generates open looks. Players love playing with a guy they know will hit them if they’re open and Hali (plus Carlisle) has inspired the whole team to play that way. Plus they’re a well built and well-rounded team who are flourishing in that system.

I’ve been loving the chaotic helter-skelter comeback wins from the Pacers because they still make nice passes and reads amongst it all.

OKC are so good and so stacked they should be villains - but they’re also a team of likeable dudes too.

[tiderulz]

Yeah, game two was what i was expecting. It’s very hard to win a title without a superstar. Indiana really ain’t that good, really don’t think they are much better than the Magic. Kinda sad they are the ones who came out of the east.

Haliburton is superstar.

OKC is 68-14 team and play as such. You can nitpick their problems, but they are simply best team in nba.


Nuggets vs OKC was real finals. East has quality issues for past 30 years, it's always 2-3 teams deep. In between last Jordan's title and Pistons winning, Eastern conference teams in finals couldn't win more than 2 games. ( 5 seasons, 6 wins in finals total) .

And in general, from 1999- 2024, teams from West won 17 titles.

Haliburton is NOT a superstar. unless we are watering down what a superstar is.

[tiderulz]

Haliburton is superstar.

OKC is 68-14 team and play as such. You can nitpick their problems, but they are simply best team in nba.


Nuggets vs OKC was real finals. East has quality issues for past 30 years, it's always 2-3 teams deep. In between last Jordan's title and Pistons winning, Eastern conference teams in finals couldn't win more than 2 games. ( 5 seasons, 6 wins in finals total) .

And in general, from 1999- 2024, teams from West won 17 titles.

I do agree with what said about the east and OKC but while I do believe Haliburton is good player, I wouldn't call him a superstar. Much of the Pacers games are team wins rather than them being dependent on one guy. They do have a cast full of good role players, so I don't blame. Haliburton is often invisible in many games. Game one is a good example; Haliburton really was not doing much until he put up the game winner. Guys like Nesmith, Nembhand, Turner, Siakam, and Toppin did much more in the fourth then Haliburton in my opinion.

He isn't traditional superstar as some buckets -go-get em player, but i think he makes everybody around him much better.
Like, tonight in first quarter, he didn't look great but Pacers had lead, but as soon as he was benched OKC went on massive run.

He is like updated Steve Nash, great at controlling pace and including everybody.

I actually like that part of his game, that he isn't heavy offensive load carrier if he doesn't have to be. So deep in playoffs he only took 20 or more FGA three times, twice in OT games.

It feels like OKC will beat them without much problems, but result is still 1-1 heading back to Indiana.

Maybe i'm just Haliburton sucker i really loved his game back with Kings.

all of what you said was true, but that still doesnt make him a superstar.

[tiderulz]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

ehh, maybe top 25-30. people are over thinking this playoff run. good player and all-star, but not top-15.

[pepe1991]

I do agree with what said about the east and OKC but while I do believe Haliburton is good player, I wouldn't call him a superstar. Much of the Pacers games are team wins rather than them being dependent on one guy. They do have a cast full of good role players, so I don't blame. Haliburton is often invisible in many games. Game one is a good example; Haliburton really was not doing much until he put up the game winner. Guys like Nesmith, Nembhand, Turner, Siakam, and Toppin did much more in the fourth then Haliburton in my opinion.

He isn't traditional superstar as some buckets -go-get em player, but i think he makes everybody around him much better.
Like, tonight in first quarter, he didn't look great but Pacers had lead, but as soon as he was benched OKC went on massive run.

He is like updated Steve Nash, great at controlling pace and including everybody.

I actually like that part of his game, that he isn't heavy offensive load carrier if he doesn't have to be. So deep in playoffs he only took 20 or more FGA three times, twice in OT games.

It feels like OKC will beat them without much problems, but result is still 1-1 heading back to Indiana.

Maybe i'm just Haliburton sucker i really loved his game back with Kings.

all of what you said was true, but that still doesnt make him a superstar.

Taking team to conference finals at 24 and finals at 25 probably should qualify him as such. No?

Was Jason Kidd superstar to you? On his best year he averaged 18,7 ppg.
Nash never averaged more than 18,8 ppg.
Magic Johnson never averaged 24 ppg in his career, he was career 19,5 ppg player.

Those guys are table setting guards. I find them very valuable and very rare. Guy doesn't have to put 25 ppg to be effective on offense, if he makes every single role player better while playing with him.

By just looking at plus minus in this playoffs, Pacers didn't have many blowout wins, yet Haliburton has plus minus of +6,7. That's top 15 in playoffs. Most of guys above him are guys who play on OKC (grizzlies series still impacts it) or guys who are long gone.

Let's be objective. One deep playoff run can be coincidence ( Hawks & Trae Young) ,going even further next year stops being coincidence.
Their team isn't filled with stars nor some high lottery picks, they have bunch of guys other teams rejected, Siakam , Hali and Turner.

Is superstar somebody who puts some fat numbers on fringe playoff team, or superstar is player that carries team far in playoffs, regardless of stats?

He was sixth in the NBA in Win Shares this season — even while missing 9 full games.

And he also just delivered what’s essentially the best single-season assist-to-turnover ratio in the history of the league — a league that’s existed for 77 years.

Even whole "most overrated" voting from other nba players is dishonest and boils down to "who i hate " question. Rest of names were:
Gobert- went to 2 CF in past two years, won DPOY million times now
Trae Young - had one good playoff run, could argue he is bit overrated but also bit overhated
Jimmy Butler - GTFO with this, guy carried some of most mediocre nba teams to finals in past 15 years
Brad Beal- nobody rates him that high to being with
Draymoond Green- well just one of best defenders of past 15 years, won 4 titles, but hey, "overrated"

Giannis is somehow in top 10. Guy is somehow overrated by nba players despite fact he is at worst 5th best player in the world?


At the end of a day guy is 25 years old lead guard that won 5 playoff series in past 2 years. Most "superstars" and "all stars" didn't win 5 playoff series in past 3 years combined. And Pacers are still 3 win away from title. He isn't new Steph Curry, but he is damn good version of himself.

[JoshuaPotter]

Me, just sitting here, not caring, about debating the finals.

I wouldn't mind a 7 games series though. I think that'd be nice for the parity discussion. Otherwise, a potential 4-1 isn't out of the question.

[Last Guardian]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

Issue is when your best player is a passer, and the other team is freakishly good defensively and doesn't give anything easy...then you have no one to just get buckets against a hard defense. Suns never won with Nash because defense gets insane in playoffs. You can't play as a team against old Spurs defense, or now the Thunder. You need someone they can't guard, like Lakers Shaq. I remember the In season tournament finals and Thunder were beaten by the Bucks soundly. They just couldn't guard Giannis.

[tiderulz]

He isn't traditional superstar as some buckets -go-get em player, but i think he makes everybody around him much better.
Like, tonight in first quarter, he didn't look great but Pacers had lead, but as soon as he was benched OKC went on massive run.

He is like updated Steve Nash, great at controlling pace and including everybody.

I actually like that part of his game, that he isn't heavy offensive load carrier if he doesn't have to be. So deep in playoffs he only took 20 or more FGA three times, twice in OT games.

It feels like OKC will beat them without much problems, but result is still 1-1 heading back to Indiana.

Maybe i'm just Haliburton sucker i really loved his game back with Kings.

all of what you said was true, but that still doesnt make him a superstar.

Taking team to conference finals at 24 and finals at 25 probably should qualify him as such. No?

Was Jason Kidd superstar to you? On his best year he averaged 18,7 ppg.
Nash never averaged more than 18,8 ppg.
Magic Johnson never averaged 24 ppg in his career, he was career 19,5 ppg player.

Those guys are table setting guards. I find them very valuable and very rare. Guy doesn't have to put 25 ppg to be effective on offense, if he makes every single role player better while playing with him.

By just looking at plus minus in this playoffs, Pacers didn't have many blowout wins, yet Haliburton has plus minus of +6,7. That's top 15 in playoffs. Most of guys above him are guys who play on OKC (grizzlies series still impacts it) or guys who are long gone.

Let's be objective. One deep playoff run can be coincidence ( Hawks & Trae Young) ,going even further next year stops being coincidence.
Their team isn't filled with stars nor some high lottery picks, they have bunch of guys other teams rejected, Siakam , Hali and Turner.

Is superstar somebody who puts some fat numbers on fringe playoff team, or superstar is player that carries team far in playoffs, regardless of stats?

He was sixth in the NBA in Win Shares this season — even while missing 9 full games.

And he also just delivered what’s essentially the best single-season assist-to-turnover ratio in the history of the league — a league that’s existed for 77 years.

Even whole "most overrated" voting from other nba players is dishonest and boils down to "who i hate " question. Rest of names were:
Gobert- went to 2 CF in past two years, won DPOY million times now
Trae Young - had one good playoff run, could argue he is bit overrated but also bit overhated
Jimmy Butler - GTFO with this, guy carried some of most mediocre nba teams to finals in past 15 years
Brad Beal- nobody rates him that high to being with
Draymoond Green- well just one of best defenders of past 15 years, won 4 titles, but hey, "overrated"

Giannis is somehow in top 10. Guy is somehow overrated by nba players despite fact he is at worst 5th best player in the world?


At the end of a day guy is 25 years old lead guard that won 5 playoff series in past 2 years. Most "superstars" and "all stars" didn't win 5 playoff series in past 3 years combined. And Pacers are still 3 win away from title. He isn't new Steph Curry, but he is damn good version of himself.

make him a superstar? no. again, unless we are very watering down what a superstar is.

Siakam - 3 time all-star. he isnt just another guy. ill give you the other guys are role players.

But Magic Johnson led team to 5 titles, arguably the 2nd best player each year.
Kidd/Nash - you highlight the scoring (and scoring not as easy then as it is now) Nash won the MVP twice, 7 years with double digit assists. Kidd 4 years double digit assists (and two at 9.8 apg) along with all NBA defense. and honestly, unpopular take, i wouldnt even call Kidd a superstar.

I guess i just hold the title "superstar" a little higher in value than other people do

[Skybox]

Haliburton does SO much to make his team viable...his nights with 12 assists and NO turnovers vs playoff-quality teams make him much more valuable than "superstars" who put up a ton of points but do very little (thus far) to further their teammates and team. Don't mean to be too harsh, but Paolo and Franz are guilty of that.

Haliburton is more than capable to putting up 35 pts at any time as well...his play dictates IND's success as much as any single player in the league influences their team's chances.

Best kind of superstar, imo.

[Optimus_Steel]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

Issue is when your best player is a passer, and the other team is freakishly good defensively and doesn't give anything easy...then you have no one to just get buckets against a hard defense. Suns never won with Nash because defense gets insane in playoffs. You can't play as a team against old Spurs defense, or now the Thunder. You need someone they can't guard, like Lakers Shaq. I remember the In season tournament finals and Thunder were beaten by the Bucks soundly. They just couldn't guard Giannis.

The NBA suspending half the Suns and Nash getting decked were the main reason Nash did not get that title.

[eyriq]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

ehh, maybe top 25-30. people are over thinking this playoff run. good player and all-star, but not top-15.

He grades out as the #12 player in the league by my calculations based on regular season production alone. Factor in the playoffs and he's easily top ten. I don't think you can support your view statistically or by the eyeball test.

[RichCollab]

Haliburton is a superstar. Why is there a debate? Any doubts should be dispelled now after the results in the playoffs.