Around the League: 2024-25 Season

[tiderulz]

Haliburton is 25, already a top-15 player, and the best player on a Finals team. That checks every box for a superstar in today’s league.

ehh, maybe top 25-30. people are over thinking this playoff run. good player and all-star, but not top-15.

He grades out as the #12 player in the league by my calculations based on regular season production alone. Factor in the playoffs and he's easily top ten. I don't think you can support your view statistically or by the eyeball test.

can you share these calculations and what goes into them?

regular season production, 41st in scoring, 3rd in apg,
post season, 26th in scoring, 1st in apg.

i just dont see him as a top-15 player yet.

Giannis
SGA
Durant
Curry
Brunson
Tatum
Brown
Ja
Jokic
Luka
Mitchell
Ant
Davis
Kyrie
Booker

Kawhi/Embiid - when healthy

I guess I view him (maybe wrongly) in the Lavine/Lamelo/Cade/Trae/Harden/JJJ/Garland/Sabonis/Bane/Sengun

that next bucket outside top 15ish

maybe just me

[Rainwater]

Haliburton reminds me of the PG version of Jimmy Bulter. Not necessarily a superstar but definitely not a role player. Can get you to the championship game with the right guys but have heavy doubts he can win it. Not necessarily a go to guy but can turn it up when the lights are bright in the playoffs. More of a team guy than an alpha.

I feel like Haliburton and Pacers being in the title game says way more about how open the east is rather than how good the Pacers and Hailburton are. Just my two cents on the subject.

[tiderulz]

Haliburton does SO much to make his team viable...his nights with 12 assists and NO turnovers vs playoff-quality teams make him much more valuable than "superstars" who put up a ton of points but do very little (thus far) to further their teammates and team. Don't mean to be too harsh, but Paolo and Franz are guilty of that.

Haliburton is more than capable to putting up 35 pts at any time as well...his play dictates IND's success as much as any single player in the league influences their team's chances.

Best kind of superstar, imo.

Night. he had 1 game like that.

he is averaging 15 ppg when his team needs him the most right now. he has had some great playoff games this year, also had some 3-13, 2-8, 3-8, 5-16, 2-7 games this same post season. You dont know what you will get from him night after night. he will be mostly good, and then have games where he disappears for large amounts of time. he had 5 pts in the first 3 quarters last night. and last night wasnt the first time of a game like that.

[Rainwater]

ehh, maybe top 25-30. people are over thinking this playoff run. good player and all-star, but not top-15.

He grades out as the #12 player in the league by my calculations based on regular season production alone. Factor in the playoffs and he's easily top ten. I don't think you can support your view statistically or by the eyeball test.

can you share these calculations and what goes into them?

regular season production, 41st in scoring, 3rd in apg,
post season, 26th in scoring, 1st in apg.

i just dont see him as a top-15 player yet.

Giannis
SGA
Durant
Curry
Brunson
Tatum
Brown
Ja
Jokic
Luka
Mitchell
Ant
Davis
Kyrie
Booker

Kawhi/Embiid - when healthy

I guess I view him (maybe wrongly) in the Lavine/Lamelo/Cade/Trae/Harden/JJJ/Garland/Sabonis/Bane/Sengun

that next bucket outside top 15ish

maybe just me

There are 15 guys better than Haliburton. Not trying to down Hali, dude is a good player and the overrated vote was crazy to me because he is hardly mentioned by anyone in my opinion but I think the playoffs allows people to live in the moment. Every play is greater. Additionally, it’s easier to forget how good other guys are when they aren’t playing. Hali is the same guy he has always been but the lights are just brighter making people change their opinion of him.

[Fortune Teller]

I think we are undervaluing someone who was 3rd in the regular season in APG and 1st in the playoffs. That is not an empty stat for a PG on a team without a superstar to pass to. And as Magic fans we know how hard it is to find that player who will take and make the big shots in crunch time.

I would say Haliburton is a top-15 player and I'd put him ahead of old guys like Embiid, Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi and others who can't stay healthy and have been sitting at home for weeks while Hali keeps playing. The Pacers made it to the ECF last season too, so they're not a one-hit wonder. They're trending up.

[JoshuaPotter]

I think we are undervaluing someone who was 3rd in the regular season in APG and 1st in the playoffs. That is not an empty stat for a PG on a team without a superstar to pass to. And as Magic fans we know how hard it is to find that player who will take and make the big shots in crunch time.

I would say Haliburton is a top-15 player and I'd put him ahead of old guys like Embiid, Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi and others who can't stay healthy and have been sitting at home for weeks while Hali keeps playing. The Pacers made it to the ECF last season too, so they're not a one-hit wonder. They're trending up.

I'm buying this.

We are also on a team that has very interesting pieces that could change the dynamic of the team "if they were just healthy consistently".

Why one could argue if Suggs never got injured we possibly take the Celtics to 7 games.

[OrlChamps2030]

Haliburton is a superstar. Why is there a debate? Any doubts should be dispelled now after the results in the playoffs.

Right? He’s 24 and in 33 playoff games he’s averaging 18.5/9 on 60% TS. Made an ECF and finals run. Countless clutch shots

Giannis
SGA
Durant
Curry
Brunson
Tatum
Brown
Ja
Jokic
Luka
Mitchell
Ant
Davis
Kyrie
Booker

Kawhi/Embiid - when healthy

I guess I view him (maybe wrongly) in the Lavine/Lamelo/Cade/Trae/Harden/JJJ/Garland/Sabonis/Bane/Sengun

that next bucket outside top 15ish

maybe just me

I have him ahead of every single guy you have in the “next bucket”. I could see Cade taking another step forward though. I’d also probably take him over Kyrie/Kawhi/Embiid

[Idiosyncratic]

I think we are undervaluing someone who was 3rd in the regular season in APG and 1st in the playoffs. That is not an empty stat for a PG on a team without a superstar to pass to. And as Magic fans we know how hard it is to find that player who will take and make the big shots in crunch time.

I would say Haliburton is a top-15 player and I'd put him ahead of old guys like Embiid, Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi and others who can't stay healthy and have been sitting at home for weeks while Hali keeps playing. The Pacers made it to the ECF last season too, so they're not a one-hit wonder. They're trending up.

Easy top 15. Players who don't look flashy scoring tend to get underrated, just how it is. Doesn't matter how your bag looks, it matters the numbers you put up that lead to winning. Scores 19 a game at incredible efficiency, dishes out 9 assists, doesn't turn the ball over. That kind of player is going to carry you to having a good team offense every year. Pacers 2nd in offense last year, 9th this year with Haliburton being hurt the first couple of months. We think Nembhard and Myles Turner are carrying them to those ratings?? They were top tier offensively before Siakam even came.

Now will I rather have a guy who can score 30 on the same efficiency who also doesn't turn the ball over and can playmake a bit? Of course, I will take the guy with the scoring bag who also does it efficiently, but that's why a guy like Shai is MVP.

[tiderulz]

I think we are undervaluing someone who was 3rd in the regular season in APG and 1st in the playoffs. That is not an empty stat for a PG on a team without a superstar to pass to. And as Magic fans we know how hard it is to find that player who will take and make the big shots in crunch time.

I would say Haliburton is a top-15 player and I'd put him ahead of old guys like Embiid, Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi and others who can't stay healthy and have been sitting at home for weeks while Hali keeps playing. The Pacers made it to the ECF last season too, so they're not a one-hit wonder. They're trending up.

Easy top 15. Players who don't look flashy scoring tend to get underrated, just how it is. Doesn't matter how your bag looks, it matters the numbers you put up that lead to winning. Scores 19 a game at incredible efficiency, dishes out 9 assists, doesn't turn the ball over. That kind of player is going to carry you to having a good team offense every year. Pacers 2nd in offense last year, 9th this year with Haliburton being hurt the first couple of months. We think Nembhard and Myles Turner are carrying them to those ratings?? They were top tier offensively before Siakam even came.

Now will I rather have a guy who can score 30 on the same efficiency who also doesn't turn the ball over and can playmake a bit? Of course, I will take the guy with the scoring bag who also does it efficiently, but that's why a guy like Shai is MVP.

he is also is not and has never been a good defender. I take that into account for a player also.

[Idiosyncratic]

I think we are undervaluing someone who was 3rd in the regular season in APG and 1st in the playoffs. That is not an empty stat for a PG on a team without a superstar to pass to. And as Magic fans we know how hard it is to find that player who will take and make the big shots in crunch time.

I would say Haliburton is a top-15 player and I'd put him ahead of old guys like Embiid, Durant, Kyrie, Kawhi and others who can't stay healthy and have been sitting at home for weeks while Hali keeps playing. The Pacers made it to the ECF last season too, so they're not a one-hit wonder. They're trending up.

Easy top 15. Players who don't look flashy scoring tend to get underrated, just how it is. Doesn't matter how your bag looks, it matters the numbers you put up that lead to winning. Scores 19 a game at incredible efficiency, dishes out 9 assists, doesn't turn the ball over. That kind of player is going to carry you to having a good team offense every year. Pacers 2nd in offense last year, 9th this year with Haliburton being hurt the first couple of months. We think Nembhard and Myles Turner are carrying them to those ratings?? They were top tier offensively before Siakam even came.

Now will I rather have a guy who can score 30 on the same efficiency who also doesn't turn the ball over and can playmake a bit? Of course, I will take the guy with the scoring bag who also does it efficiently, but that's why a guy like Shai is MVP.

he is also is not and has never been a good defender. I take that into account for a player also.

Fair, I agree. But I still think he has been pretty close to a top 10 overall player this year with everything considered. I would not have Ja or Jaylen Brown anywhere near him this year. Then guys like Davis, Kyrie, Booker feel very debatable where I would heavily lean Haliburton. I think you could debate other guys too, but that alone would have him top 12 or so for me.

Clear better- Shai, Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Luka

After that I think you can rearrange a ton of ways, but all of which would have Haliburton probably firmly top 12 or so at worst for me. I've thought that before the playoffs, but I respect if you feel differently.

[eyriq]

ehh, maybe top 25-30. people are over thinking this playoff run. good player and all-star, but not top-15.

He grades out as the #12 player in the league by my calculations based on regular season production alone. Factor in the playoffs and he's easily top ten. I don't think you can support your view statistically or by the eyeball test.

can you share these calculations and what goes into them?

regular season production, 41st in scoring, 3rd in apg,
post season, 26th in scoring, 1st in apg.

i just dont see him as a top-15 player yet.

Giannis
SGA
Durant
Curry
Brunson
Tatum
Brown
Ja
Jokic
Luka
Mitchell
Ant
Davis
Kyrie
Booker

Kawhi/Embiid - when healthy

I guess I view him (maybe wrongly) in the Lavine/Lamelo/Cade/Trae/Harden/JJJ/Garland/Sabonis/Bane/Sengun

that next bucket outside top 15ish

maybe just me

I like to take 14 performance-related metrics, including counting stats (G, 2P, 3P, FT, TRB, AST, STL, BLK), advanced metrics (PER, WS, BPM, VORP, On-Off), and total minutes played and use a linear combination of them for a composite ranking. Haliburton's percentiles make the case easy, elite efficiency, elite playmaking, and elite availability. 99th percentile in WS, VORP, and AST rate, top-tier shooting splits, and near 95th in PER and minutes played. He's a true offensive engine, not just putting up numbers but driving wins which you can see playing out in the playoffs.

[Rainwater]

Easy top 15. Players who don't look flashy scoring tend to get underrated, just how it is. Doesn't matter how your bag looks, it matters the numbers you put up that lead to winning. Scores 19 a game at incredible efficiency, dishes out 9 assists, doesn't turn the ball over. That kind of player is going to carry you to having a good team offense every year. Pacers 2nd in offense last year, 9th this year with Haliburton being hurt the first couple of months. We think Nembhard and Myles Turner are carrying them to those ratings?? They were top tier offensively before Siakam even came.

Now will I rather have a guy who can score 30 on the same efficiency who also doesn't turn the ball over and can playmake a bit? Of course, I will take the guy with the scoring bag who also does it efficiently, but that's why a guy like Shai is MVP.

he is also is not and has never been a good defender. I take that into account for a player also.

Fair, I agree. But I still think he has been pretty close to a top 10 overall player this year with everything considered. I would not have Ja or Jaylen Brown anywhere near him this year. Then guys like Davis, Kyrie, Booker feel very debatable where I would heavily lean Haliburton. I think you could debate other guys too, but that alone would have him top 12 or so for me.

Clear better- Shai, Jokic, Tatum, Giannis, Luka

After that I think you can rearrange a ton of ways, but all of which would have Haliburton probably firmly top 12 or so at worst for me. I've thought that before the playoffs, but I respect if you feel differently.

I really don’t think he was top 10 at all. If I remember correctly he struggled at the beginning of the year and didn’t even make the all star game or an all nba team. Wasn’t even top 10 in nba mvp shares. I truly believe if it wasn’t for this playoff run there would be no talks of top 10 player. People are living in the moment.

[Skybox]

Once again this board finds ways to critique tremendous players...could anyone logically argue that Haliburton wouldn't be (without question) the best player on the Magic? 25yo, 6'5 true PG, high volume 3pt shooter, 9.2 apg/1.6 TOs, 1.4 steals...just a dream of a modern Lead Guard.

[Rainwater]

Once again this board finds ways to critique tremendous players...could anyone logically argue that Haliburton wouldn't be (without question) the best player on the Magic? 25yo, 6'5 true PG, high volume 3pt shooter, 9.2 apg/1.6 TOs, 1.4 steals...just a dream of a modern Lead Guard.

Nobody is saying he sucks or something. I don’t think calling him a Butler level player is an insult. I just believe calling him a superstar or top 10 player this year is bit much considering the fact he wasn’t an all star, didn’t even make an all NBA team, and wasn’t even top 10 in NBA MVP voting shares. I think so much of hype Hali is getting is based on what is happening in the playoffs rather than anything that happened during the season.

And while he would be a great addition on the Magic with Paolo and Franz because he is an ideal fit, I don’t think he would be the best player on the Magic. Still think this would be Paolo’s team.

[RookieStar]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

[Skybox]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

He's channeling Kareem/Walton vibes

[RookieStar]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

He's channeling Kareem/Walton vibes

I thought Phil Jackson with the Zen thingy..

[pepe1991]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

Others didn't prefer Avatar the last Airbender as kids ?

Maybe somebody goes with friends in woods, throwing balls at animals to catch them all.

[RookieStar]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

Others didn't prefer Avatar the last Airbender as kids ?

Maybe somebody goes with friends in woods, throwing balls at animals to catch them all.

We grew up wathing swat kats, biker mice from mars, thundercats and heman.

[pepe1991]

Anyone else saw what Wemby was doing? Dude shaved his head and went to a shaolin temple for some Zen-ish or something.

There are videos of him training there. LOL wonder why no one else do those kinds of things..

Others didn't prefer Avatar the last Airbender as kids ?

Maybe somebody goes with friends in woods, throwing balls at animals to catch them all.

We grew up wathing swat kats, biker mice from mars, thundercats and heman.

Conan , Batman , Spiderman

screw it, nothing gave me bigger trauma than Patamon's death in Digimons.