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Let's Talk About Mario

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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#261 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 4:18 pm

tiderulz wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Fournier will be trade bait this summer via sign n trade. Henny and Skiles building value.

Next season, Mario will be starting at SF by mid season. Book it.

Everyone. Get off your NBA2k high horses.


havent you been saying Hezonja isnt anwhere near ready and not to "gift" him playing time? now saying its guaranteed he is starting by mid-season? love when you throw out contradictions


Yep. He should be earning those starters minutes by next year mid season like AG. From what I have seen, he is developing nicely thanks to Skiles and staff.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#262 » by ezzzp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:38 pm

SaberT wrote:Sure, let's talk. Here are some lineup statistics starting from December the 1st, with minute cutoff to remove outliers. Links to the statistics are above the screenshot. I've sorted it by net rating which should show how effective lineup is against the opposing team.

5 man lineups. (cutoff 50 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*50&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

4 man lineups. (cutoff 75 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*75&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

3 man lineups. (cutoff 100 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*100&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

2 man lineups (cutoff 150 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*150&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015&GroupQuantity=2


I'm sure those lineups are ranked that because of Hezonja...smh...and look at that sample size....and consider the game scenario's where Mario plays (ex: end of quarters vs 2nd unit wings) etc.

...and let me get this straight:

- when Mario doesn't get minutes player-fans complain he doesn't get enough minutes
- when Mario does get minutes player-fans complain his role is too small and everyone on the floor ignores him

...but now you pull up tiny sample stats of lineups with players who dominate the ball and carry nearly all the offensive or defensive load, but now in your interpretation that means that he is the reason those line-ups are ranked where they are...

LOL, ok....

I was one of the earliest on this board to argue for the Magic to pick Hezonja, and I am a huge fan of his; but the delusion that "player-fans" have about what level his game is at right now is just comical. I watch every game, and he does show flashes here and there, but he is in no way playing at the level that those "player-fan" eye goggles are distorting your vision to.

Every time he puts the ball on the floor, I cringe. If you don't, then you are choosing to turn a blind eye to one of the most important things that a starting wing in the NBA is asked to do vs defenses every single night. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on his role as a catch and shoot type option, you can't have missed how he is still not clear as to what to do when he has the ball in his hand. He drives when he should shoot, he shoots when he should pass, he passes when he should shoot...this happens every time he is on the court.

I have no doubt that this offseason he'll improve those ball handling skills in the gym; and a have much better understanding of the subtleties of the NBA game by looking at a lot of his game film this summer...and I'm positive he'll come into next training camp at a whole other level of player...but that is the future - not right now.

...and I do not believe young players develop by being handed minutes - the only thing that does is lower their ceiling.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#263 » by Skin » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:08 pm

ezzzp wrote:
SaberT wrote:Sure, let's talk. Here are some lineup statistics starting from December the 1st, with minute cutoff to remove outliers. Links to the statistics are above the screenshot. I've sorted it by net rating which should show how effective lineup is against the opposing team.

5 man lineups. (cutoff 50 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*50&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

4 man lineups. (cutoff 75 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*75&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

3 man lineups. (cutoff 100 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*100&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

2 man lineups (cutoff 150 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*150&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015&GroupQuantity=2


I'm sure those lineups are ranked that because of Hezonja...smh...and look at that sample size....and consider the game scenario's where Mario plays (ex: end of quarters vs 2nd unit wings) etc.

...and let me get this straight:

- when Mario doesn't get minutes player-fans complain he doesn't get enough minutes
- when Mario does get minutes player-fans complain his role is too small and everyone on the floor ignores him

...but now you pull up tiny sample stats of lineups with players who dominate the ball and carry nearly all the offensive or defensive load, but now in your interpretation that means that he is the reason those line-ups are ranked where they are...

LOL, ok....

I was one of the earliest on this board to argue for the Magic to pick Hezonja, and I am a huge fan of his; but the delusion that "player-fans" have about what level his game is at right now is just comical. I watch every game, and he does show flashes here and there, but he is in no way playing at the level that those "player-fan" eye goggles are distorting your vision to.

Every time he puts the ball on the floor, I cringe. If you don't, then you are choosing to turn a blind eye to one of the most important things that a starting wing in the NBA is asked to do vs defenses every single night. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on his role as a catch and shoot type option, you can't have missed how he is still not clear as to what to do when he has the ball in his hand. He drives when he should shoot, he shoots when he should pass, he passes when he should shoot...this happens every time he is on the court.

I have no doubt that this offseason he'll improve those ball handling skills in the gym; and a have much better understanding of the subtleties of the NBA game by looking at a lot of his game film this summer...and I'm positive he'll come into next training camp at a whole other level of player...but that is the future - not right now.

...and I do not believe young players develop by being handed minutes - the only thing that does is lower their ceiling.

People know and expect that Hezonja will make mistakes on the floor. Doesn't mean we don't want him to play. This is just part of his learning curve.

In case you haven't noticed yet... winning is not as big of a goal anymore as player development is. No need to cringe if our Top 5 pick makes a mistake. Mistakes are plentiful up and down our roster.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#264 » by LacosteM » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:35 pm

ezzzp wrote:
SaberT wrote:Sure, let's talk. Here are some lineup statistics starting from December the 1st, with minute cutoff to remove outliers. Links to the statistics are above the screenshot. I've sorted it by net rating which should show how effective lineup is against the opposing team.

5 man lineups. (cutoff 50 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*50&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

4 man lineups. (cutoff 75 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*75&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

3 man lineups. (cutoff 100 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*100&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

2 man lineups (cutoff 150 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*150&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015&GroupQuantity=2


I'm sure those lineups are ranked that because of Hezonja...smh...and look at that sample size....and consider the game scenario's where Mario plays (ex: end of quarters vs 2nd unit wings) etc.

...and let me get this straight:

- when Mario doesn't get minutes player-fans complain he doesn't get enough minutes
- when Mario does get minutes player-fans complain his role is too small and everyone on the floor ignores him

...but now you pull up tiny sample stats of lineups with players who dominate the ball and carry nearly all the offensive or defensive load, but now in your interpretation that means that he is the reason those line-ups are ranked where they are...

LOL, ok....

I was one of the earliest on this board to argue for the Magic to pick Hezonja, and I am a huge fan of his; but the delusion that "player-fans" have about what level his game is at right now is just comical. I watch every game, and he does show flashes here and there, but he is in no way playing at the level that those "player-fan" eye goggles are distorting your vision to.

Every time he puts the ball on the floor, I cringe. If you don't, then you are choosing to turn a blind eye to one of the most important things that a starting wing in the NBA is asked to do vs defenses every single night. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on his role as a catch and shoot type option, you can't have missed how he is still not clear as to what to do when he has the ball in his hand. He drives when he should shoot, he shoots when he should pass, he passes when he should shoot...this happens every time he is on the court.

I have no doubt that this offseason he'll improve those ball handling skills in the gym; and a have much better understanding of the subtleties of the NBA game by looking at a lot of his game film this summer...and I'm positive he'll come into next training camp at a whole other level of player...but that is the future - not right now.

...and I do not believe young players develop by being handed minutes - the only thing that does is lower their ceiling.


Lmao I love it how "coach fan" is accusing people of being player fans.

Also the sample size is solid enough to draw some conclusions about this lineups potential success and how'd they do with extended minutes, considering they're looking really promising. People also have every right to complain about Mario's role, as when he's in the game team is more concerned with running pick&pops for Smith than actaully running plays for Mario. Mario is a young player and it's reasonable he'll make mistakes now and than, but that's not a reason for Skiles to pull him out of the game after every little mistake and to use selective accountability all the time (mostly on Mario). The stats are also indicating that when Mario is inserted instead of Fournier, there's a solid increase in other players TS% and the team is performing drastically better. It's apparent that you're now just dismissing stats that don't fit your narrative. Your biased opinion really doesn't hold any significance dude...
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#265 » by BadMofoPimp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:28 pm

LacosteM wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
SaberT wrote:Sure, let's talk. Here are some lineup statistics starting from December the 1st, with minute cutoff to remove outliers. Links to the statistics are above the screenshot. I've sorted it by net rating which should show how effective lineup is against the opposing team.

5 man lineups. (cutoff 50 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*50&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

4 man lineups. (cutoff 75 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=4&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*75&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

3 man lineups. (cutoff 100 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=3&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*100&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015

2 man lineups (cutoff 150 minutes)
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612753/lineups/advanced/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&CF=MIN*G*150&DateFrom=12%2F01%2F2015&GroupQuantity=2


I'm sure those lineups are ranked that because of Hezonja...smh...and look at that sample size....and consider the game scenario's where Mario plays (ex: end of quarters vs 2nd unit wings) etc.

...and let me get this straight:

- when Mario doesn't get minutes player-fans complain he doesn't get enough minutes
- when Mario does get minutes player-fans complain his role is too small and everyone on the floor ignores him

...but now you pull up tiny sample stats of lineups with players who dominate the ball and carry nearly all the offensive or defensive load, but now in your interpretation that means that he is the reason those line-ups are ranked where they are...

LOL, ok....

I was one of the earliest on this board to argue for the Magic to pick Hezonja, and I am a huge fan of his; but the delusion that "player-fans" have about what level his game is at right now is just comical. I watch every game, and he does show flashes here and there, but he is in no way playing at the level that those "player-fan" eye goggles are distorting your vision to.

Every time he puts the ball on the floor, I cringe. If you don't, then you are choosing to turn a blind eye to one of the most important things that a starting wing in the NBA is asked to do vs defenses every single night. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on his role as a catch and shoot type option, you can't have missed how he is still not clear as to what to do when he has the ball in his hand. He drives when he should shoot, he shoots when he should pass, he passes when he should shoot...this happens every time he is on the court.

I have no doubt that this offseason he'll improve those ball handling skills in the gym; and a have much better understanding of the subtleties of the NBA game by looking at a lot of his game film this summer...and I'm positive he'll come into next training camp at a whole other level of player...but that is the future - not right now.

...and I do not believe young players develop by being handed minutes - the only thing that does is lower their ceiling.


Lmao I love it how "coach fan" is accusing people of being player fans.

Also the sample size is solid enough to draw some conclusions about this lineups potential success and how'd they do with extended minutes, considering they're looking really promising. People also have every right to complain about Mario's role, as when he's in the game team is more concerned with running pick&pops for Smith than actaully running plays for Mario. Mario is a young player and it's reasonable he'll make mistakes now and than, but that's not a reason for Skiles to pull him out of the game after every little mistake and to use selective accountability all the time (mostly on Mario). The stats are also indicating that when Mario is inserted instead of Fournier, there's a solid increase in other players TS% and the team is performing drastically better. It's apparent that you're now just dismissing stats that don't fit your narrative. Your biased opinion really doesn't hold any significance dude...


But, they play so well on NBA 2K!!!
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#266 » by ezzzp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:38 pm

LacosteM wrote:
ezzzp wrote:I'm sure those lineups are ranked that because of Hezonja...smh...and look at that sample size....and consider the game scenario's where Mario plays (ex: end of quarters vs 2nd unit wings) etc.

...and let me get this straight:

- when Mario doesn't get minutes player-fans complain he doesn't get enough minutes
- when Mario does get minutes player-fans complain his role is too small and everyone on the floor ignores him

...but now you pull up tiny sample stats of lineups with players who dominate the ball and carry nearly all the offensive or defensive load, but now in your interpretation that means that he is the reason those line-ups are ranked where they are...

LOL, ok....

I was one of the earliest on this board to argue for the Magic to pick Hezonja, and I am a huge fan of his; but the delusion that "player-fans" have about what level his game is at right now is just comical. I watch every game, and he does show flashes here and there, but he is in no way playing at the level that those "player-fan" eye goggles are distorting your vision to.

Every time he puts the ball on the floor, I cringe. If you don't, then you are choosing to turn a blind eye to one of the most important things that a starting wing in the NBA is asked to do vs defenses every single night. Even if you ignore that, and just focus on his role as a catch and shoot type option, you can't have missed how he is still not clear as to what to do when he has the ball in his hand. He drives when he should shoot, he shoots when he should pass, he passes when he should shoot...this happens every time he is on the court.

I have no doubt that this offseason he'll improve those ball handling skills in the gym; and a have much better understanding of the subtleties of the NBA game by looking at a lot of his game film this summer...and I'm positive he'll come into next training camp at a whole other level of player...but that is the future - not right now.

...and I do not believe young players develop by being handed minutes - the only thing that does is lower their ceiling.


Lmao I love it how "coach fan" is accusing people of being player fans.

Also the sample size is solid enough to draw some conclusions about this lineups potential success and how'd they do with extended minutes, considering they're looking really promising. People also have every right to complain about Mario's role, as when he's in the game team is more concerned with running pick&pops for Smith than actaully running plays for Mario. Mario is a young player and it's reasonable he'll make mistakes now and than, but that's not a reason for Skiles to pull him out of the game after every little mistake and to use selective accountability all the time (mostly on Mario). The stats are also indicating that when Mario is inserted instead of Fournier, there's a solid increase in other players TS% and the team is performing drastically better. It's apparent that you're now just dismissing stats that don't fit your narrative. Your biased opinion really doesn't hold any significance dude...


I'm not a "coach fan" - I am an "Orlando Magic fan"...that's a lazy argument. I could care less about Skiles other than he is the head coach of the Magic. Put it this way, if he was fired tomorrow I wouldn't think about him again. But I guaranteed that the majority of "player fans" will move onto the next team that Hezonja plays for and never be Magic fans again. Big difference.

Also, you skewed the results by filtering out the early part of the year when the Magic was playing its best basketball and Hezonja was playing his worst. Not that it matters, as his offensive role is not big enough to reveal too much about his impact in lineup stats. If his key trait was his defense, then you could gauge something about his impact - but its not.

Mario's role is related to all the mistakes I listed above. If you were a "Fournier-player-fan" instead of a "Mario-player-fan" you would not want Mario to play through his mistakes - you would argue that his play is too inconsistent etc. I am a "Magic-team-fan" so when I see Hezonja play, I see he needs to fix several crucial skills and those can really only be fixed in the offseason when that type of individual player development occurs - at least if the Magic is playing games to win. And the Magic ARE playing to win, despite losing - the goal is to win every game - not tanking for a draft pick. As a 'Magic-team-fan," I also know this team needs him to develop to his ceiling if it wants a chance at contention. Thus him being developed tightly is in the best interest of my team.

I don't have a narrative, other than I want the Magic to win games...I don't have a favorite player, I have a favorite team.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#267 » by PennytoShaq » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:14 pm

Mario is one of those guys that needs minutes and needs to play through his mistakes. Not sure it will happen this year, but if Fournier is indeed moved in a S&T (a good move, if possible) than Mario will get those minutes at SG and SF off the bench.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#268 » by ezzzp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:22 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:Mario is one of those guys that needs minutes and needs to play through his mistakes. Not sure it will happen this year, but if Fournier is indeed moved in a S&T (a good move, if possible) than Mario will get those minutes at SG and SF off the bench.


All good teams are at least three quality wings deep. The key clog to Mario's minutes was Harris. He would probably be playing even more if Vucevic hadn't gotten hurt.

minute per game distribution

prior to Harris trade

Oladipo: 31.5 / Fournier: 31.7 / Mario: 15.2

after Harris trade - prior to Vuc injury

Oladipo: 36.5 MPG / Fournier: 34.7 / Mario: 21.2

after Vuc Injury

Oladipo: 38.0 / Fournier: 34.5 / Mario: 18.2

total minute distribution

prior to Harris trade

Oladipo: 1544 / Fournier: 1681 / Mario: 762

after Harris trade - prior to Vuc injury

Oladipo: 292 / Fournier: 208 / Mario: 191

after Vuc Injury

Oladipo: 380 / Fournier: 345 / Mario: 182
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#269 » by SaberT » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:45 pm

ezzzp you are such a bad poster it's really pointless to reply at all. However I'm going to make just one comment (and I appeal to other posters to ignore you as well).

You call me out for setting filter from 1st of December onward, claim it is small sample, yet the sample is about 50 games. It's over half the season and significant in any statistical comparison of lineups.

Now, after you complained of my "filtering", let's remind ourselves of filters you included 2 pages ago, filters that had goal of proving Fournier is highly effective and deserves so much playing time. This attempt was weak at best as even with such high amount of filters you used, you still couldn't get Fournier to top the chart in any meaningful way. So, lets see how "ezzzp" does the filtering.

"Top TS% amongst guards and forwards with:
+1400 minutes (quality sample size)
+40 games started (vs starting quality competition):"


"Top Assist % for players that are 6'6" to 6"9" (small forwards) with:
+1400 minutes (quality sample size)
+40 games started (vs starting quality competition):"


So yeah, I guess when you pull a stat, filtering by "height", "minutes", and "started games" is just fine and does not distort the data. According to you, it improves the quality of data and proves your point about Fournier. Yet, when I propose that we do not include first two-three months of rookies career in seeing his on court effectiveness today, you complain like it's some kind of huge crime. He's a god damn rookie, ofcourse he took some time to adjust.


Ignore ezzzp, he is not looking to have a meaningful discussion, he manipulates statistics to prove his point only to cry wolf when others back their claims with better statistics. Oh, and him calling someone a player fan is such a lazy argument (to use his words).
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#270 » by ezzzp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:48 pm

SaberT wrote:ezzzp you are such a bad poster it's really pointless to reply at all. However I'm going to make just one comment (and I appeal to other posters to ignore you as well).

You call me out for setting filter from 1st of December onward, claim it is small sample, yet the sample is about 50 games. It's over half the season and significant in any statistical comparison of lineups.

Now, after you complained of my "filtering", let's remind ourselves of filters you included 2 pages ago, filters that had goal of proving Fournier is highly effective and deserves so much playing time. This attempt was weak at best as even with such high amount of filters you used, you still couldn't get Fournier to top the chart in any meaningful way. So, lets see how "ezzzp" does the filtering.

"Top TS% amongst guards and forwards with:
+1400 minutes (quality sample size)
+40 games started (vs starting quality competition):"


"Top Assist % for players that are 6'6" to 6"9" (small forwards) with:
+1400 minutes (quality sample size)
+40 games started (vs starting quality competition):"


So yeah, I guess when you pull a stat, filtering by "height", "minutes", and "started games" is just fine and does not distort the data. According to you, it improves the quality of data and proves your point about Fournier. Yet, when I propose that we do not include first two-three months of rookies career in seeing his on court effectiveness today, you complain like it's some kind of huge crime. He's a god damn rookie, ofcourse he took some time to adjust.

Ignore ezzzp, he is not looking to have a meaningful discussion, he manipulates statistics to prove his point only to cry wolf when others back their claims with better statistics. Oh, and him calling someone a player fan is such a lazy argument (to use his words).


LOL, don't hyperventilate and slobber all over yourself.

The TS% was to show how Fournier's shooting efficiency ranks amongst players in a similar role. It is filtered for 1400minutes and 40 games started to show that he sustained it vs starting level competition and for a quality amount of time.

The AS% was to show how Fourniers Assist % compared to players who because of their size range (6'6"-6'9") more than likely are defended by and defend players in that same size range (basically SF's vs SF's but its more fluid than that). That was also filtered at 1400m/40 gs to show that % was vs starting level competition and sustained for a quality amount of minutes.

Btw, 40 (41) games is half an NBA season and most starters average around 2100 minutes a season (thus 1400m is about 2/3 of a starter's season minutes). Those numbers aren't arbitrary.

The team lineup (not individual) stat you used, filtered out the three months when the Magic played their best and when Hezonja played his worst. Its not even close to the same thing.

Its really quite adorable that you are throwing a tantrum and trying to get others to ignore someone...my little sister used to do the same thing with her friends when she was a pre-teen. :lol:
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#271 » by PennytoShaq » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:07 pm

ezzzp wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Mario is one of those guys that needs minutes and needs to play through his mistakes. Not sure it will happen this year, but if Fournier is indeed moved in a S&T (a good move, if possible) than Mario will get those minutes at SG and SF off the bench.


All good teams are at least three quality wings deep. The key clog to Mario's minutes was Harris. He would probably be playing even more if Vucevic hadn't gotten hurt.



What does Vuc getting hurt have to do with it? The main thing is that Fournier/Dipo and Mario are really all SGs that slide to SF.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#272 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:32 pm

I think Mario shows glimpses of being really good along with warning signs that he could bust. I like having him on the floor over Fournier because he's unselfish and has good court vision. His brand of unselfish ball is more conducive to winning and better to watch than Fournier's brand of selfish ball. Yes Evan can shoot so we want him taking shots. However we don't want him being a ball stopper, looking off open players because they aren't his favourite receiving targets and instead throwing up difficult shots or turning the ball over. Anybody who's played competitive ball knows that that kind of play kills on court chemistry and brings the whole team down. It is not fun to play with a player like that and players resent it.
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RealGM Classics - Oladipo's "rude" celebration comes back to bite him: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1358414
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Def Swami
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#273 » by Def Swami » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:36 pm

On a team deprived of efficient scorers, I'm okay with giving the guy with 45/40/82 splits some leeway with his shot attempts.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#274 » by ezzzp » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:46 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
ezzzp wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Mario is one of those guys that needs minutes and needs to play through his mistakes. Not sure it will happen this year, but if Fournier is indeed moved in a S&T (a good move, if possible) than Mario will get those minutes at SG and SF off the bench.


All good teams are at least three quality wings deep. The key clog to Mario's minutes was Harris. He would probably be playing even more if Vucevic hadn't gotten hurt.



What does Vuc getting hurt have to do with it? The main thing is that Fournier/Dipo and Mario are really all SGs that slide to SF.


Vuc's injury meant Skiles had to rely on Oladipo more, thus kept him on floor longer which took some of Mario minutes. His mpg had jumped 6 mpg after the trade, until Vuc went down - then they dropped back.

I guess my point was that keeping Fournier is a good idea, wether he ends up a sixth man or a starter. Financially, the Magic have the capacity to stay deep at the wing long term.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#275 » by cedric76 » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:49 pm

Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
Franz, TDS,
P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#276 » by MagicStarwipe » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:55 pm

Def Swami wrote:On a team deprived of efficient scorers, I'm okay with giving the guy with 45/40/82 splits some leeway with his shot attempts.

The way I see it is shot selection is one thing, but when it turns into poor team play that becomes another thing entirely. I can not accept guys playing poor team ball.
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RealGM Classics - Oladipo's "rude" celebration comes back to bite him: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1358414
cedric76
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#277 » by cedric76 » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:18 am

watching turner toying with the pelicans make me very sad, WHY WHY henry didnt draft him :-(
Suggs, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, Jett
Franz, TDS,
P5, JI, Panda
Wcj, Goga, Moe
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#278 » by ezzzp » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:39 am

cedric76 wrote:Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith


Well we know for sure that Hennigan was hoping that Porzingis dropped to the Magic at 5, so trading down was probably not an option.

I guess he could have had a trade in place if Porzingis was picked, but there were a lot of picks in between - so Turner could have easily been taken prior, so picking for Indiana at 5 would have been incredibly risky.

His only option was really to take Turner at 5 which in itself would have been a risk. Turner came with health risks and talent wise was in the mid teen range.
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#279 » by Skin » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:27 am

cedric76 wrote:watching turner toying with the pelicans make me very sad, WHY WHY henry didnt draft him :-(

The only comfort I got after seeing Hezonja be picked was the argument others made saying...

Because Henny wanted to draft a Superstar...

I thought for sure we would end up with a big.

PG Payton / Watson
SG Dipo / Fournier
SF Gordon / Harris
PF Draft
C Vucevic / Dedmon

This is why I don't prefer the strategy of BPA, unless it's so clear cut that BPA is a Superstar prospect. Instead I like "BPA that fills a need".
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Re: Let's Talk About Mario 

Post#280 » by RickB-Orlando » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:51 am

Hoyti Von Totiy wrote:It´s for the best if he asks for a trade, Skiles is just not the kinda coach that will develop a rookie. He uses them as punching bags while he "develops" 30 y. olds.
Another 3 years here under Skiles are 3 years wasted. In those 3 years Orlando will maybe make the playoffs in 1 of those years.


I've posted similar information before, but the myth that Skiles doesn't develop youth is one that keeps getting passed back and forth here and it's just not true. Some examples:

Ben Gordon - sixth player of the year as a rookie.
Brandon Jennings - started 82 games as a rookie.
Shawn Marion - started 79 games in his second year, averaging 17+ PPG.

The fact is, he has developed and played youth. Mario simply isn't ready for the big stage - watching the games rather than the box scores will tell you that. Sure, he flashes skills, because he has great potential, but he's still quite raw.

He has the potential, maybe next year, maybe he evolves into a legitimate starter like Marion did?

It's patently ridiculous to say that the Magic should trade Mario simply because "Skiles won't develop him." Historically, that's exactly what he has done. Maybe he's not impacting games much because he simply isn't ready to do so.

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