Aaron Gordon - In or Out?

[zaymon]

Oh BS man.

Vuc and Ross can take us to the playoffs but AG can’t? Have you been in a coma for the last two years? AG contributed just as much to our two playoff appearances as Vuc and Ross. Last I checked we barely made the playoffs twice WITH all 3, now Vuc and Ross can carry us with a lesser player replacing AG.

You are either straight up drunk on Haterade or you are the biggest Vuc and Ross homer on the planet.

Aaron Gordon was one of the worst ball handlers in the whole nba this season. His most efficient playtypes were cuts and post ups. You cant create your teams offense around that. He has positive impact on games but more as a ball mover than shot creator.
Yes you can make playoffs with Gordon, but he is not the driving force of your offense nor defense. If you think creating offense via AG gives similar results to Ross or Vucevic i have nothing more to say.

Watch on YouTube

His highest assist game this year. Mostly transition offense, post ups and using looks our movement shooters create. He barely creates any offense. Educate yourself and stop writing nonsense.

Pretty sure I didn’t say a damn thing about running the offense through AG as a top option. Yes Vuc is clearly a #1 option on this team currently but somebody has to get him the ball, and there nothing wrong with having multiple guys who can make plays. AG doesn’t have to be a driving force on either side of the ball to be a difference maker which he has been due to his athleticism and versatility. Those assist totals are no fluke and to me, are a clear sign of a guy who has yet to reach his peak.

And making Ross out to be a viable top option is a joke. You oversimplify what AG does, but you make it sound like Ross coming off screen after screen for a contested 3 or a 1 dribble pull up for a long 2 is the second coming of the triangle offense. That’s literally all he does aside from the occasional baseline dunk. Ross isn’t nearly as consistent enough at making shots to be considered a high option. There is a reason that “Coin Toss” Ross doesn’t start and has almost exclusively played off the bench for his entire career.

Go “educate” yourself.

I’d rather watch AG develop his playmaking after seeing those big assist totals he was putting up before the outbreak.

So you want big assists numbers from AG but you dont want him to be the driving force of our offense? So how that works ?
Do you even understand what you are writing or you just hope i wont reread a post you just made ?
Aaron Gordon cant beat defenders of the dribble. Aaron Gordon is a bad pick and roll ball handler. What playmaking are you talking about ? Curveballs ? He is passing to players who created shots by screens or movement. He is not the one who creates those looks. You can make fun of Ross, but Gordon running around screens generates exactly zero offense. He would just look dumb running without defender.

I am curious what is your vision of our offense with Gordon being a playmaker. If i oversimplified it be generous enough to educate me.

ps. I never said Ross is a top option, he is a bench scorer who can create his own shot obviously, problem is AG cant create offense efficiently even against reserves.

[Bensational]

If Vuc weren't on the team then Gordon could likely inherit a lot of his responsibilities in the offense as is, as a facilitating big man.

According to this stat, AG is actually a better Post Up option, and more efficient on plays. Though according to this stat, his efficiency is slightly worse than Vuc's. Still, it's all in the vicinity of Vuc's efficiency.

By paint touches, AG is again one of our best and most efficient.

From Elbow Touches, Vuc is more efficient, but AG is better passing out of that spot, with a higher AST%.

They're very low numbers, but AG also has better PnR Roll Man numbers than Vuc, as well.

AG is also better on putbacks.

And cuts.

Overall, Vuc is the more efficient player. But when you look at all of the inefficiencies that pull Gordon's game down - turn around fades, bad drives, stand-still perimeter isos - and he's still has a FG% only 4% worse than Vuc's. If you put Gordon Vuc's role more often, you eliminate most of that and focus him on the shots he's more efficient at.

Vuc is the better and more impactful player, no doubt, but there's still more to get out of AG just from massaging his game now. He could have huge spikes in efficiency if he has matured on the court and can stay within his capabilities.

[pepe1991]

If Vuc weren't on the team then Gordon could likely inherit a lot of his responsibilities in the offense as is, as a facilitating big man.

According to this stat, AG is actually a better Post Up option, and more efficient on plays. Though according to this stat, his efficiency is slightly worse than Vuc's. Still, it's all in the vicinity of Vuc's efficiency.

By paint touches, AG is again one of our best and most efficient.

From Elbow Touches, Vuc is more efficient, but AG is better passing out of that spot, with a higher AST%.

They're very low numbers, but AG also has better PnR Roll Man numbers than Vuc, as well.

AG is also better on putbacks.

And cuts.

Overall, Vuc is the more efficient player. But when you look at all of the inefficiencies that pull Gordon's game down - turn around fades, bad drives, stand-still perimeter isos - and he's still has a FG% only 4% worse than Vuc's. If you put Gordon Vuc's role more often, you eliminate most of that and focus him on the shots he's more efficient at.

Vuc is the better and more impactful player, no doubt, but there's still more to get out of AG just from massaging his game now. He could have huge spikes in efficiency if he has matured on the court and can stay within his capabilities.

It's not what Gordon could be, it's always what Gordon wants to be.
If Gordon was brought up on a team with coach that has authority who would sit him down and say " dude, you will play like this or you will be rotting on bench " he would become much better player.
But for years Gordon was sugarcoated to be " future of Orlando" to the point where he was too big for his own ego, and his game, simply- wasn't that great.

From delusional Paul George comparisons comming from former coach, from people here blowing up him into " similar to Kawhi, but more athletic".

I remember Stephen A Smith 2,3 years ago talking about him as " future allstar , for sure" like, it was always that way with him. "Experts" were soooo damn sure he will blow up to the point where he probably started to belive he will just show up, not really do extra work and things will just happen for him. Aaaand it never happend.
For 3 years straight he is copy past same- flawed, mediocre shooter who keeps shooting dribble pullups and stepback 3s on pathetic efficiency that drags his whole game down. He never devleoped his game to his strenghts, he wasted god knows how many hours working on parts of his game that have no usage in modern basketball like stepback 2 and dribble pullup from mid range and ofc, years pass, things he worked on had no payback in actual basketball and here we are, 6 years later, stuck with crossover between Josh Smith and Rudy Gay instad of having more athletic Draymoond Green mixed with Marion with some shades of Blake Griffin.

[Bensational]

If Vuc weren't on the team then Gordon could likely inherit a lot of his responsibilities in the offense as is, as a facilitating big man.

According to this stat, AG is actually a better Post Up option, and more efficient on plays. Though according to this stat, his efficiency is slightly worse than Vuc's. Still, it's all in the vicinity of Vuc's efficiency.

By paint touches, AG is again one of our best and most efficient.

From Elbow Touches, Vuc is more efficient, but AG is better passing out of that spot, with a higher AST%.

They're very low numbers, but AG also has better PnR Roll Man numbers than Vuc, as well.

AG is also better on putbacks.

And cuts.

Overall, Vuc is the more efficient player. But when you look at all of the inefficiencies that pull Gordon's game down - turn around fades, bad drives, stand-still perimeter isos - and he's still has a FG% only 4% worse than Vuc's. If you put Gordon Vuc's role more often, you eliminate most of that and focus him on the shots he's more efficient at.

Vuc is the better and more impactful player, no doubt, but there's still more to get out of AG just from massaging his game now. He could have huge spikes in efficiency if he has matured on the court and can stay within his capabilities.

It's not what Gordon could be, it's always what Gordon wants to be.
If Gordon was brought up on a team with coach that has authority who would sit him down and say " dude, you will play like this or you will be rotting on bench " he would become much better player.
But for years Gordon was sugarcoated to be " future of Orlando" to the point where he was too big for his own ego, and his game, simply- wasn't that great.

From delusional Paul George comparisons comming from former coach, from people here blowing up him into " similar to Kawhi, but more athletic".

I remember Stephen A Smith 2,3 years ago talking about him as " future allstar , for sure" like, it was always that way with him. "Experts" were soooo damn sure he will blow up to the point where he probably started to belive he will just show up, not really do extra work and things will just happen for him. Aaaand it never happend.
For 3 years straight he is copy past same- flawed, mediocre shooter who keeps shooting dribble pullups and stepback 3s on pathetic efficiency that drags his whole game down. He never devleoped his game to his strenghts, he wasted god knows how many hours working on parts of his game that have no usage in modern basketball like stepback 2 and dribble pullup from mid range and ofc, years pass, things he worked on had no payback in actual basketball and here we are, 6 years later, stuck with crossover between Josh Smith and Rudy Gay instad of having more athletic Draymoond Green mixed with Marion with some shades of Blake Griffin.

I don't disagree with that. I wanted to wait and see if he would reach a higher level as a playmaker, but he hasn't. Though I think even he is realising the extent of his limitations and is learning to play within his role on his own. Hence, his post ASB play.

With a clear cut pecking order, contention and a leader in front of Gordon his game will likely hot another level as an elite role player, IMO.

[pepe1991]

If Vuc weren't on the team then Gordon could likely inherit a lot of his responsibilities in the offense as is, as a facilitating big man.

According to this stat, AG is actually a better Post Up option, and more efficient on plays. Though according to this stat, his efficiency is slightly worse than Vuc's. Still, it's all in the vicinity of Vuc's efficiency.

By paint touches, AG is again one of our best and most efficient.

From Elbow Touches, Vuc is more efficient, but AG is better passing out of that spot, with a higher AST%.

They're very low numbers, but AG also has better PnR Roll Man numbers than Vuc, as well.

AG is also better on putbacks.

And cuts.

Overall, Vuc is the more efficient player. But when you look at all of the inefficiencies that pull Gordon's game down - turn around fades, bad drives, stand-still perimeter isos - and he's still has a FG% only 4% worse than Vuc's. If you put Gordon Vuc's role more often, you eliminate most of that and focus him on the shots he's more efficient at.

Vuc is the better and more impactful player, no doubt, but there's still more to get out of AG just from massaging his game now. He could have huge spikes in efficiency if he has matured on the court and can stay within his capabilities.

It's not what Gordon could be, it's always what Gordon wants to be.
If Gordon was brought up on a team with coach that has authority who would sit him down and say " dude, you will play like this or you will be rotting on bench " he would become much better player.
But for years Gordon was sugarcoated to be " future of Orlando" to the point where he was too big for his own ego, and his game, simply- wasn't that great.

From delusional Paul George comparisons comming from former coach, from people here blowing up him into " similar to Kawhi, but more athletic".

I remember Stephen A Smith 2,3 years ago talking about him as " future allstar , for sure" like, it was always that way with him. "Experts" were soooo damn sure he will blow up to the point where he probably started to belive he will just show up, not really do extra work and things will just happen for him. Aaaand it never happend.
For 3 years straight he is copy past same- flawed, mediocre shooter who keeps shooting dribble pullups and stepback 3s on pathetic efficiency that drags his whole game down. He never devleoped his game to his strenghts, he wasted god knows how many hours working on parts of his game that have no usage in modern basketball like stepback 2 and dribble pullup from mid range and ofc, years pass, things he worked on had no payback in actual basketball and here we are, 6 years later, stuck with crossover between Josh Smith and Rudy Gay instad of having more athletic Draymoond Green mixed with Marion with some shades of Blake Griffin.

I don't disagree with that. I wanted to wait and see if he would reach a higher level as a playmaker, but he hasn't. Though I think even he is realising the extent of his limitations and is learning to play within his role on his own. Hence, his post ASB play.

With a clear cut pecking order, contention and a leader in front of Gordon his game will likely hot another level as an elite role player, IMO.

I think if he goes on Nets he'll be fine, average like 14 points ,8 rebounds, 3 assists and everybody will be up in arms how Magic "gave up too early" when in reality it's really not that hard to play 3rd option if two guys ahead of you are that much more talented.

I mean look at Aminu, guy looked more than fine with Blazers with Lillard and McCullum or Ibaka when he was with Westbrook and Durant. Those guys are not bad players, but nobody has any serious expetations. If they deliver at some given night, great, if not, they won't be blamed for loss.
Igoudala is best example of being same player in smaller role and how perception changes. He was lead guy on .500 wins team and faced ( objective ) critics about his lack of shooting touch. But on Nuggets, later Warriors, he was praised for being good all around player. His game didn't change at all, but his role was different.

[zaymon]

It's not what Gordon could be, it's always what Gordon wants to be.
If Gordon was brought up on a team with coach that has authority who would sit him down and say " dude, you will play like this or you will be rotting on bench " he would become much better player.
But for years Gordon was sugarcoated to be " future of Orlando" to the point where he was too big for his own ego, and his game, simply- wasn't that great.

From delusional Paul George comparisons comming from former coach, from people here blowing up him into " similar to Kawhi, but more athletic".

I remember Stephen A Smith 2,3 years ago talking about him as " future allstar , for sure" like, it was always that way with him. "Experts" were soooo damn sure he will blow up to the point where he probably started to belive he will just show up, not really do extra work and things will just happen for him. Aaaand it never happend.
For 3 years straight he is copy past same- flawed, mediocre shooter who keeps shooting dribble pullups and stepback 3s on pathetic efficiency that drags his whole game down. He never devleoped his game to his strenghts, he wasted god knows how many hours working on parts of his game that have no usage in modern basketball like stepback 2 and dribble pullup from mid range and ofc, years pass, things he worked on had no payback in actual basketball and here we are, 6 years later, stuck with crossover between Josh Smith and Rudy Gay instad of having more athletic Draymoond Green mixed with Marion with some shades of Blake Griffin.

I don't disagree with that. I wanted to wait and see if he would reach a higher level as a playmaker, but he hasn't. Though I think even he is realising the extent of his limitations and is learning to play within his role on his own. Hence, his post ASB play.

With a clear cut pecking order, contention and a leader in front of Gordon his game will likely hot another level as an elite role player, IMO.

I think if he goes on Nets he'll be fine, average like 14 points ,8 rebounds, 3 assists and everybody will be up in arms how Magic "gave up too early" when in reality it's really not that hard to play 3rd option if two guys ahead of you are that much more talented.

I mean look at Aminu, guy looked more than fine with Blazers with Lillard and McCullum or Ibaka when he was with Westbrook and Durant. Those guys are not bad players, but nobody has any serious expetations. If they deliver at some given night, great, if not, they won't be blamed for loss.
Igoudala is best example of being same player in smaller role and how perception changes. He was lead guy on .500 wins team and faced ( objective ) critics about his lack of shooting touch. But on Nuggets, later Warriors, he was praised for being good all around player. His game didn't change at all, but his role was different.

It all depends what we expect from AG. Being a primary ball handler and being a secondary playmaker off cuts, spot ups and transition is very different.
Draymond is a great comparison but we must remember Green is not a reason gsw offense dominated. He was using advantages others created. His usage was between 13-18 while Aaron Gordon is 20-24. He was also less pick and roll ball handler and more spot up shooter than Gordon.
Advocating for using Aaron Gordon like Draymond Green is actually calling for REDUCING his offensive contribution on ball.
On the other side Green is elite defender with elite defensive advanced numbers while Gordon is average defender with average defensive numbers.
Like i said, i am ok with Gordon being on our roster for little longer if we cant get a good package but cant agree with expanding his role.

[fendilim]

Lol zach lowe reporting market for AG is murkier

[Skin]

Lol zach lowe reporting market for AG is murkier

That's because AG is soft. He defined his career when he didn't retaliate to Lowry.

[fendilim]

Lol zach lowe reporting market for AG is murkier

That's because AG is soft. He defined his career when he didn't retaliate to Lowry.

I think that’s evident ever since because he’d rather play the perimeter than stick to what he does best, stay inside and hustle.

[Skin]

Lol zach lowe reporting market for AG is murkier

That's because AG is soft. He defined his career when he didn't retaliate to Lowry.

I think that’s evident ever since because he’d rather play the perimeter than stick to what he does best, stay inside and hustle.

But for all his dunking ability he hardly dunks on anyone. He's mainly an open lane transition dunker. Not too special. Just an artsy kind of guy.

[fendilim]

That's because AG is soft. He defined his career when he didn't retaliate to Lowry.

I think that’s evident ever since because he’d rather play the perimeter than stick to what he does best, stay inside and hustle.

But for all his dunking ability he hardly dunks on anyone. He's mainly an open lane transition dunker. Not too special. Just an artsy kind of guy.

Yeah i know. Doesnt have to be dunking. You can check his shot percentages, etc.

He shouldnt be in the perimeter.

[Telfaire]

Hello Magic fans, I'm not a Wolves/Pistons fan, just trying to create a mock draft with some reasonable trades...I know Johnson + 17th has came up endless times, but what if Detroit absorb JJ's contract (to move up for Ball), so you get the 17th pick and a 16M TPE, which you could package with the 15th pick to move up while getting a more productive player (hopefully a SF, perhaps Oubre?).

You could also get Svi from Detroit, a good shooter to complement Fultz off the bench.

[UnFadeable21]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Looks like Magic trying to trade him before Draft

[fendilim]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Looks like Magic trying to trade him before Draft

Wonder what we can get for him with him value reportedly not being as high as before.

Should have traded him earlier. But oh. Well.

[pepe1991]

Rudy Gay and 11# pick for Gordon ?

Not sure would Spurs want it and do they want Magic pick but Gay is stop-gap between years and in last year of his contract so he could be solid pickup for contender later, being payed $14M.

I just want to move few spots to secure Nesmith pick for us.


Late edit:
so among teams Bucks want him. It would be so fitting that fanbase expected 2# pick and ended up in trade for 24th pick and Eric Bledsoe

[Bensational]

I say he ends up in Phoenix with CP3 as part of their big buy-in on the playoffs for Book.

But also, I thought you guys would like this highlight reel of his turnaround jumpers.

[drsd]

Rudy Gay and 11# pick for Gordon ?

What is interesting about this idea is that it creates even more financial growth in 2021 off-season targets.

Gay 14.5; Fournier 17.1; Birch 3M; Ennis 2.1M (and Watson finally being payed 0.3M) = 37,000,000 in available funds to go after an all-stars wing.

The #11 is interesting in that one of the sharp-shooters could be drafted. And this frees up #15 for another trade.

..

[basketballRob]

When they didn't play him in the playoffs it seemed like the end. Plus he left the bubble before the last game. They may feel like they have something in Chuma.

The rumors about AG are really going to blow up now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[zaymon]

I say he ends up in Phoenix with CP3 as part of their big buy-in on the playoffs for Book.

But also, I thought you guys would like this highlight reel of his turnaround jumpers.

Its like a slap in the face. How can you brag about something you are awful with ?

[Magic_Johnny12]

Rudy Gay and 11# pick for Gordon ?

What is interesting about this idea is that it creates even more financial growth in 2021 off-season targets.

Gay 14.5; Fournier 17.1; Birch 3M; Ennis 2.1M (and Watson finally being payed 0.3M) = 37,000,000 in available funds to go after an all-stars wing.

The #11 is interesting in that one of the sharp-shooters could be drafted. And this frees up #15 for another trade.

..

I kinda really love this trade. Gay would become our Jeff Green for a year and not infringe on winning on an expected down year and still put out this fake illusion that we’re still “trying to compete” while not being so blatant about it. Kinda genius.

As funny as it may sound I could totally see us targeting Okoro if he drops.