The Official Franz Wagner Thread

[Skybox]

But if magic fans can be more understanding of the team and passionate, We should BOO WAGNER IF HE DON'T PERFORM IN OUR HOME GAMES.

Of all those weird posts you made here over the years. This must be top 5

Hey, there's nothing wrong with a passionate fan impulsively booing poor performance.

...making advance plans for it is a little off

[basketballRob]

I still would have taken Bouknight or Moody at 8, Those were the 2 best players on the board IMO at #8, i would have taken BPA over positional fit. If we took Bouknight or Moody at 8 and than people complain we have too guards, So what if there's no playing time for 1 guy or 2 guys?

There's practice where the whole team practices with each other probably everyday. If they don't get on the court in games, They are still playing in practice.

Than there's the G league, send a player down to the G league where they actually play.

If there's a logjam at GUARD, We can figure out a trade later.

I know we don't play in New York, Philly, Chicago or Boston where you can get booed by your home fans. But if magic fans can be more understanding of the team and passionate, We should BOO WAGNER IF HE DON'T PERFORM IN OUR HOME GAMES.

I'm not sold on Wagner like with Suggs, Bouknight and Moody and I think most Magic fans are not behind the Wagner pick. Wagner is going to have to perform to win over ME and OTHER magic fans.

All these guys have to prove themselves. To single him out is weird and you really want to boo this guy already?? Also I am totally on board with the pick this guy is a really good player. I sure when he proves himself you will just forget you ever said we should boo him at our home games smh

If you the 8th pick in a draft there's high expectations. You have to be a starter or coming off the bench with starter minutes and you have to perform. A top 10 drafted guy should be booed if he ain't living up the hype. Certain games a player will be off and if it's an energy/effort issue he should get booed. Which is why BAMBA should be getting booed, He looking like a bust right now.

What if Moody and Bouknight are performing worse?

I'm going to laugh when Bouknight puts up horrible shooting percentages, almost unplayable and Moody looks lost.

[bigdogdylan5]

He's a 3/4 with 4/5 height....it's good...because there isn't many players his height that can do what he can do....i mean you can probably count on one hand maybe two how many 6'10+ players that can move like wings....even less when you factor in on defense he can switch onto whatever player and hold his own

And-1

Wagner's jumper will be undependable at the SF slot. If he develops a mid-range game to compliment a long-bomb, he will have all the offensive tools he needs to contribute to this roster.

Wagner will be like "Pat Garrity who also plays defence".


But: I can't wait for this version of a Wagner clip:

Watch on YouTube

..

I love this play was lucky to see it live and it’s my favorite moments of a live game I went to. I moved away in 2006 so I missed more of the good years

[ARandomStranger]

I took my time to evaluate Wagner and also have been reading comparisons given by you guys here and I can't say I disagree. Wagner to me screams a player who was underused and quite possibly underrated. When you stand Scottie and Franz side by side, you realize just how special Franz is in comparison, and realize just how far Barnes has to go to get close to just Franz's floor.

Scottie needs to learn to shoot, Wagner already has a nice shot. Scottie needs to improve his FTs, Wagner already has an 80+% FT. The list goes on and on, but people still value Scottie more. Why? Why value a guy who's whole relevance relies on him magically learning how to shoot the basketball when his FT% is abysmal more than someone whose floor is already so high and he is younger! How can we tell where his ceiling is? Can we actually see the limit of Wagner will be or are we just taking stabs at it to further help the Raptors rationalize their stupid pick?

[PrimeThyme]

Wagner was just the best pick to me. I've been on record as a big Bouknight fan, but once we got our guard of the future in Suggs, a 6'10 playmaking, defending, && shot-creating forward was just the best player left on my board.

In all honesty, I started to just fall in love with other prospects as I was able to really dig into the tape of the top 15 of this draft. Bouknight was a faller on my board by the end.

Pick 8 was where I was on record as saying I'd be ecstatic to take Barnes. I felt the same way about Wagner as the process unfolded as well.

I don't see how he is any safer than Barnes, who is being universally labeled as this huge upside pick.

[yoyojw17]

For what it's worth, all of the 8th picks from the past 5 years have averaged almost right at 20 minutes per game during their rookie seasons.

History is indeed informative.

2020-Obi Toppin. Looks like a bench player
2019-Jaxson Hayes. Looks like a bench player
2018-Collin Sexton. Mid-range starter
2017-Frank Ntilikina. Scrub
2016-Buddy Hield. Mid-range starter
2015-Stanley Johnson. Deep bench player
2014-Nik Stauskas. Solid rotational player
2013-Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. High-end 6th man
2012-Terrence Ross. High-end 6th man
2011-Brandon Knight. Solid rotational player



What one takes from this list is that Orlando should forecast the expectation for Wager at "[url]Consistent 15mpg back-up[/url]" (i.e. Solid rotational player). The upside from Management is for Wagner to move in to that High-end 6th man role.

At 8 a team is not expecting to draft for a future starter. And desperately does not want the next "Frank Ntilikina". Those are late-lottery type picks.


..

Yup.... i hope him, isaac and okeke will average 30 min a night... and a 4th player to fill in the overlap.

To be honest with you... I hope that everyone gets... decent time in the rotation. We should a flexible team where no player should play excessive minutes. Even dreamt about having a Bench Gang that works nearly just as well as the first unit together.... and swapping em all out at the same time. lol... i know it won't happen but would be cool. 26 min for the starters.... 22 min for the bench. keeps players at ma energy... continuity of play.... reduces risk of injury

[basketballRob]

For what it's worth, all of the 8th picks from the past 5 years have averaged almost right at 20 minutes per game during their rookie seasons.

History is indeed informative.

2020-Obi Toppin. Looks like a bench player
2019-Jaxson Hayes. Looks like a bench player
2018-Collin Sexton. Mid-range starter
2017-Frank Ntilikina. Scrub
2016-Buddy Hield. Mid-range starter
2015-Stanley Johnson. Deep bench player
2014-Nik Stauskas. Solid rotational player
2013-Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. High-end 6th man
2012-Terrence Ross. High-end 6th man
2011-Brandon Knight. Solid rotational player



What one takes from this list is that Orlando should forecast the expectation for Wager at "[url]Consistent 15mpg back-up[/url]" (i.e. Solid rotational player). The upside from Management is for Wagner to move in to that High-end 6th man role.

At 8 a team is not expecting to draft for a future starter. And desperately does not want the next "Frank Ntilikina". Those are late-lottery type picks.


..

Yup.... i hope him, isaac and okeke will average 30 min a night... and a 4th player to fill in the overlap.

To be honest with you... I hope that everyone gets... decent time in the rotation. We should a flexible team where no player should play excessive minutes. Even dreamt about having a Bench Gang that works nearly just as well as the first unit together.... and swapping em all out at the same time. lol... i know it won't happen but would be cool. 26 min for the starters.... 22 min for the bench. keeps players at ma energy... continuity of play.... reduces risk of injury

We could rotate giving players nights off too, like Detroit did. Every game just give one guard, forward, and center the night off.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[basketballRob]

Pretty funny that Franz and Suggs both came in wearing hoodies. They won't be needing those for a while in 90 degree Orlando.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM Forums mobile app

[yoyojw17]

I took my time to evaluate Wagner and also have been reading comparisons given by you guys here and I can't say I disagree. Wagner to me screams a player who was underused and quite possibly underrated. When you stand Scottie and Franz side by side, you realize just how special Franz is in comparison, and realize just how far Barnes has to go to get close to just Franz's floor.

Scottie needs to learn to shoot, Wagner already has a nice shot. Scottie needs to improve his FTs, Wagner already has an 80+% FT. The list goes on and on, but people still value Scottie more. Why? Why value a guy who's whole relevance relies on him magically learning how to shoot the basketball when his FT% is abysmal more than someone whose floor is already so high and he is younger! How can we tell where his ceiling is? Can we actually see the limit of Wagner will be or are we just taking stabs at it to further help the Raptors rationalize their stupid pick?

I was telling a friend the same thing. Overall his numbers looks modest... but he played within the system.... and if you look at the highlights of his best games... you can see a player that has the potential to put his mark on games and aggressively go after his when he has the opportunity. I think both Suggs and Wagner are high floor/high ceiling players!

yup.. makes no sense how people can be overly high on Scottie barnes... but not Wagner....

[tiderulz]

Wagner was just the best pick to me. I've been on record as a big Bouknight fan, but once we got our guard of the future in Suggs, a 6'10 playmaking, defending, && shot-creating forward was just the best player left on my board.

In all honesty, I started to just fall in love with other prospects as I was able to really dig into the tape of the top 15 of this draft. Bouknight was a faller on my board by the end.

Pick 8 was where I was on record as saying I'd be ecstatic to take Barnes. I felt the same way about Wagner as the process unfolded as well.

I don't see how he is any safer than Barnes, who is being universally labeled as this huge upside pick.

he is definitely safer, but that doesnt mean he couldnt be better.

when people talked pre-draft about Barnes vs Kuminga, it was that Barnes only needed to fix his shot but he already had other translatable skills vs Kuminga having to improve every part of his game. Well Wagner doesnt need to fix his shot, just have normal improvement and his FT% is already higher and leads you to believe his outside shot will improve. His defense looked to be just as good as Barnes and he showed similar playmaking abilities. He didnt show and wasnt used as a PG, but why take the ball out of Suggs hands? He showed that he can make the right plays/passes as a forward. The only thing i can think of is people want to fixate on Barnes 7'3 wingspan, but Wagner's should be pretty close and he is naturally taller.

I may have wanted Bouknight in the draft, but that was assuming we didnt get Suggs. I can understand not drafting another guard after Suggs, and that maybe related to how Hampton looked to end the year. I never really saw RJ as a PG, i saw him growing into SG. So i can see the need of adding a real SF to the roster. That Franz is still growing and could also backup Isaac at PF while playing strong defense is a good thing.

[PrimeThyme]

he is definitely safer, but that doesnt mean he couldnt be better.

I guess I just don't understand why "safer" is used in a negative context here.

They're such similar prospects, except for the fact that Wagner's skillset is more developed. If you're an NBA team, I think you're hoping both guys are going to do similar things as a secondary ball-handler, shot creator, and defender at the next level, except for the fact that Wagner is actually more capable of doing them at this stage.

If that makes him safer? FIne, I agree, but I don't see that as a negative whatsoever. Again, Wagner is not a 23-year-old 4-year college prospect. He's literally younger than Barnes && most of the other guys we would have selected there.

[tiderulz]

he is definitely safer, but that doesnt mean he couldnt be better.

I guess I just don't understand why "safer" is used in a negative context here.

They're such similar prospects, except for the fact that Wagner's skillset is more developed. If you're an NBA team, I think you're hoping both guys are going to do similar things as a secondary ball-handler, shot creator, and defender at the next level, except for the fact that Wagner is actually more capable of doing them at this stage.

If that makes him safer? FIne, I agree, but I don't see that as a negative whatsoever. Again, Wagner is not a 23-year-old 4-year college prospect. He's literally younger than Barnes && most of the other guys we would have selected there.

i guess a lot of times, the "safer" pick is one with a higher ceiling but lower floor. Barnes and Wagner to me have a similar ceiling, but Wagners floor is a little higher.

[Nyce_1]

Video of big bro reacting to Frantz being drafted while he's in Tokyo.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CSCRUaTAnfQ/?utm_medium=copy_link

[jonbob17]

Yah, super valuable if it is successful. Like you said it is incredibly rare. Wagner and Isaac pairing sounds terrifying to opponents. I just hope it works.

Do you have Wagner over Okeke in the depth chart (eventually).

..

Yes. I think Wagner’s ceiling is significantly higher than Okeke (unless Chuma learns to create off dribble). I am still not sure Okeke can defend good SFs. Chuma might be more of a 4.

[EasternMagic]

Im not a fan of this pick to be honest but we got Suggs so I guess I can let this slip by
but if Bouknight or Moody will explode in a few years and Wagner will be just a rotational meh player iM going to bitch night and day about it.

I trust that you will demonstrate the opposite behavior, exuding humble resignation in admittance of your blunder if Wagner exceeds your expectations by besting both Bouknight and Moody?

[VFX]

I have a feeling that Wagner is going to surprise a lot people with how valuable he’s going to be in most lineups.

[MagicFan101]

I have a feeling that Wagner is going to surprise a lot people with how valuable he’s going to be in most lineups.

I agree. Not a “super star” but he is going to be a VERY VERY good player. I would not be surprised if he knocks on the door of an all-star game or two at some point in his career. That would come during a strong team season of course so no time soon with Orlando …

[MagicFan101]

Im not a fan of this pick to be honest but we got Suggs so I guess I can let this slip by
but if Bouknight or Moody will explode in a few years and Wagner will be just a rotational meh player iM going to bitch night and day about it.

This is expected to be a really deep draft.

Moody is widely considered a “safe” pick as well. He is a 3&D guard lacking star power skills.

Bouknight has the flash to be a Zach Lavine / Devin Booker type scorer we have needed but we have also seen those guys lead their franchise to A LOT of losing. Booker only helped them to wins once they surrounded him with a lot of help. He himself is not a winner. Can Bouknight even be half as good as Booker?

My point is, let’s calm down with the harsh judgments. There is room in this deep draft for all of these guys to be very good contributors to their teams. Franz included.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Im not a fan of this pick to be honest but we got Suggs so I guess I can let this slip by
but if Bouknight or Moody will explode in a few years and Wagner will be just a rotational meh player iM going to bitch night and day about it.

I trust that you will demonstrate the opposite behavior, exuding humble resignation in admittance of your blunder if Wagner exceeds your expectations by besting both Bouknight and Moody?

I feel like most of the players between 8-16 will be pretty good. On paper it appears the Raptors made a horrible mistake but I’m not going on to start pointing and laughing quite yet.

[MagicFan101]

Im not a fan of this pick to be honest but we got Suggs so I guess I can let this slip by
but if Bouknight or Moody will explode in a few years and Wagner will be just a rotational meh player iM going to bitch night and day about it.

I trust that you will demonstrate the opposite behavior, exuding humble resignation in admittance of your blunder if Wagner exceeds your expectations by besting both Bouknight and Moody?

I feel like most of the players between 8-16 will be pretty good. On paper it appears the Raptors made a horrible mistake but I’m not going on to start pointing and laughing quite yet.

It depends what the Raptors get in return for Siakam. If they get a haul for him in a trade then Barnes could be a great pick as a Siakam replacement at a much cheaper price tag. If he does improve his shooter he could also be much better …

They have been talking to teams about Siakam for a short while now. Perhaps they know more than us about what they can get for him and felt good about what is to come?