2023-2024 Regular Season Game 22: Detroit Pistons (2-19) at Orlando Magic (14-7) - 7pm

[thelead]

detroit situation is kinda puzzling to me....they got pieces there and cade is worthy of being 1st overall....so is it the coaching? they can't be this bad? is it the right mix of players?

I think it's pretty simple...

The Pistons have made four high lotto picks during this current rebuild and have ultimately come away with Killian Hayes, Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey and Ausar Thompson.

Not a single all-star in that mix and perhaps not even a potential all-star.

I get that people are still high on Cade, but at some point it has to be acknowledged that he's in year 3 and only has a .515 TS% and is leading the league in turnovers while being a net negative defensively.

I'm not saying he can't still develop, but the deeper we get into his career, the more likely outcome is that he's just ends up being a pretty good player and not a franchise altering talent like Banchero (and perhaps also Franz).

That's really the only difference. The Magic have made four top 8 picks just like the Pistons have, but the Magic appear to have come away with two centerpiece-level players.

That’s the reason why they’re not good. It’s not a good enough excuse to be 2-20 though. Troy Weaver has given Monty guys like Wiseman and Bagley to play big time minutes. Then yeah, you toss in those picks and now you have a disaster. Troy Weaver has to have the warmest of hot seats in the NBA

[Knightro]

That’s the reason why they’re not good. It’s not a good enough excuse to be 2-20 though. Troy Weaver has given Monty guys like Wiseman and Bagley to play big time minutes. Then yeah, you toss in those picks and now you have a disaster. Troy Weaver has to have the warmest of hot seats in the NBA

Well sure. The 2-20 is certainly a little wacky and kind of fluky too since they haven't really (tonight aside) been getting blown out every night either.

I just think when a team doesn't have any star talent, and they're also not playing a bunch of veterans like the Clifford era Magic - it can really get off the rails really quickly.

Eventually I think it's gonna stabilize a bit for them. I don't think they're truly one of the worst teams ever.

[basketballRob]

We're #14 in offense and #2 in defense.

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[KillMonger]

detroit situation is kinda puzzling to me....they got pieces there and cade is worthy of being 1st overall....so is it the coaching? they can't be this bad? is it the right mix of players?

I think it's pretty simple...

The Pistons have made four high lotto picks during this current rebuild and have ultimately come away with Killian Hayes, Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey and Ausar Thompson.

Not a single all-star in that mix and perhaps not even a potential all-star.

I get that people are still high on Cade, but at some point it has to be acknowledged that he's in year 3 and only has a .515 TS% and is leading the league in turnovers while being a net negative defensively.

I'm not saying he can't still develop, but the deeper we get into his career, the more likely outcome is that he's just ends up being a pretty good player and not a franchise altering talent like Banchero (and perhaps also Franz).

That's really the only difference. The Magic have made four top 8 picks just like the Pistons have, but the Magic appear to have come away with two centerpiece-level players.

That’s the reason why they’re not good. It’s not a good enough excuse to be 2-20 though. Troy Weaver has given Monty guys like Wiseman and Bagley to play big time minutes. Then yeah, you toss in those picks and now you have a disaster. Troy Weaver has to have the warmest of hot seats in the NBA

yeah, pretty much was i was getting at...why are they THIS bad, they got a former coach of the year and a bunch of lottery picks....they shouldn't be THIS bad to me.....then again the injuries have had an effect

[AKAGoMagic15]

Good win against a team we’re supposed to beat. Not much to take away overall but couple of things I liked:

1. Paolo is really putting it together - good pace to his game, not forcing things, great defense recently (especially vs Cleveland). Looks like a legit MVP candidate for years to come, thrilled with his development.

2. Franz has been awesome defensively this game. Had a few plays where he completely stopped a Cade drive without fouling.

3. I’m really enjoying watching Black get more comfortable out there - numbers haven’t caught up to eye test but his free throws look smooth, doesn’t shy away from attempting 3s, and is making solid reads when he gets downhill. Would like to see his minutes increase as the season goes on, frustrated that they haven’t so far.

4. Detroit is easily the worst team in the league. While they do have some interesting guys, overall talent level is extremely overrated. Like many here, I badly wanted Cade in 2021 - he’s looked lazy, inefficient, and not even close to being a top 3 player on a good team, let alone a guy you build around. Many of us thought this would be a trap game since teams that lost this many in a row are expected to come out hungry and battle to stop the embarrassment. Didn’t see any of that today. Washington, arguably being less talented team overall, showed effort and fight both games, night and day difference vs today.

5. I struggle to see how to effectively bring back WCJr. While we all recognize he’s a solid player, he must buy in to a reduced role offensively. Don’t care for his usual 10-12 shot attempts per game, and he’s not a floor spacer. One of my biggest frustrations with him has been the amount of offensive fouls he would pick up on screens - feels like both Moe and Goga have been better at it than him this season. We will see what happens I guess. As far as Markelle goes - it’s been interesting to see how long he’s been out with tendinitis, which is hardly an injury but more so an ongoing condition. Nobody misses weeks from that, and most can play through it. Maybe the front office realizes (correctly) that there’s no room in the rotation for him and are working on dumping his salary. Can only hope.

Overall great win for our guys, and much needed with the upcoming Cleveland rematch

[Knightro]

Good win against a team we’re supposed to beat. Not much to take away overall but couple of things I liked:

1. Paolo is really putting it together - good pace to his game, not forcing things, great defense recently (especially vs Cleveland). Looks like a legit MVP candidate for years to come, thrilled with his development.

2. Franz has been awesome defensively this game. Had a few plays where he completely stopped a Cade drive without fouling.

3. I’m really enjoying watching Black get more comfortable out there - numbers haven’t caught up to eye test but his free throws look smooth, doesn’t shy away from attempting 3s, and is making solid reads when he gets downhill. Would like to see his minutes increase as the season goes on, frustrated that they haven’t so far.

4. Detroit is easily the worst team in the league. While they do have some interesting guys, overall talent level is extremely overrated. Like many here, I badly wanted Cade in 2021 - he’s looked lazy, inefficient, and not even close to being a top 3 player on a good team, let alone a guy you build around. Many of us thought this would be a trap game since teams that lost this many in a row are expected to come out hungry and battle to stop the embarrassment. Didn’t see any of that today. Washington, arguably being less talented team overall, showed effort and fight both games, night and day difference vs today.

5. I struggle to see how to effectively bring back WCJr. While we all recognize he’s a solid player, he must buy in to a reduced role offensively. Don’t care for his usual 10-12 shot attempts per game, and he’s not a floor spacer. One of my biggest frustrations with him has been the amount of offensive fouls he would pick up on screens - feels like both Moe and Goga have been better at it than him this season. We will see what happens I guess. As far as Markelle goes - it’s been interesting to see how long he’s been out with tendinitis, which is hardly an injury but more so an ongoing condition. Nobody misses weeks from that, and most can play through it. Maybe the front office realizes (correctly) that there’s no room in the rotation for him and are working on dumping his salary. Can only hope.

Overall great win for our guys, and much needed with the upcoming Cleveland rematch

Love this analysis. Post more!

[AKAGoMagic15]

Love this analysis. Post more!

Thank you! Always enjoy reading your guys’ takes, yours especially Knightro. Beyond excited finally having a competitive team with real cornerstones and room to grow

[thelead]

Good win against a team we’re supposed to beat. Not much to take away overall but couple of things I liked:

1. Paolo is really putting it together - good pace to his game, not forcing things, great defense recently (especially vs Cleveland). Looks like a legit MVP candidate for years to come, thrilled with his development.

2. Franz has been awesome defensively this game. Had a few plays where he completely stopped a Cade drive without fouling.

3. I’m really enjoying watching Black get more comfortable out there - numbers haven’t caught up to eye test but his free throws look smooth, doesn’t shy away from attempting 3s, and is making solid reads when he gets downhill. Would like to see his minutes increase as the season goes on, frustrated that they haven’t so far.

4. Detroit is easily the worst team in the league. While they do have some interesting guys, overall talent level is extremely overrated. Like many here, I badly wanted Cade in 2021 - he’s looked lazy, inefficient, and not even close to being a top 3 player on a good team, let alone a guy you build around. Many of us thought this would be a trap game since teams that lost this many in a row are expected to come out hungry and battle to stop the embarrassment. Didn’t see any of that today. Washington, arguably being less talented team overall, showed effort and fight both games, night and day difference vs today.

5. I struggle to see how to effectively bring back WCJr. While we all recognize he’s a solid player, he must buy in to a reduced role offensively. Don’t care for his usual 10-12 shot attempts per game, and he’s not a floor spacer. One of my biggest frustrations with him has been the amount of offensive fouls he would pick up on screens - feels like both Moe and Goga have been better at it than him this season. We will see what happens I guess. As far as Markelle goes - it’s been interesting to see how long he’s been out with tendinitis, which is hardly an injury but more so an ongoing condition. Nobody misses weeks from that, and most can play through it. Maybe the front office realizes (correctly) that there’s no room in the rotation for him and are working on dumping his salary. Can only hope.

Overall great win for our guys, and much needed with the upcoming Cleveland rematch

Haven’t seen you around but nice to see a quality post like this from the a ballboy

[thelead]

We're #14 in offense and #2 in defense.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

This game definitely helped the defensive numbers

[KillMonger]

Read on Twitter

Both these guys are just scratching the surface and yet they're both ahead of where Tatum and Brown were at the same age....embarrassment of riches.....got to surround both these dudes with the right players so they can flourish and also make the "others" better

[basketballRob]

I think Cade would look better if he played with better players.

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[eyriq]

Read on Twitter

Both these guys are just scratching the surface and yet they're both ahead of where Tatum and Brown where at the same age....embarrassment of riches.....got to surround both these dudes with the right players so they can flourish and also make the "others" better

Special. Building around them while having Suggs, Black, and Jett to still develop is a wealth of riches.

[Knightro]

I think Cade would look better if he played with better players.

I mean you could say that about any player.

But to your point, I think Cade would certainly benefit, perhaps significantly so, from being in a situation where he’s not being asked to have a 30% usage and handle all of the playmaking on a team with minimal spacing.

[thelead]

I think Cade would look better if he played with better players.

I mean you could say that about any player.

But to your point, I think Cade would certainly benefit, perhaps significantly so, from being in a situation where he’s not being asked to have a 30% usage and handle all of the playmaking on a team with minimal spacing.

But would he play defense? Kid looks half asleep all the time.

[Knightro]

I think Cade would look better if he played with better players.

I mean you could say that about any player.

But to your point, I think Cade would certainly benefit, perhaps significantly so, from being in a situation where he’s not being asked to have a 30% usage and handle all of the playmaking on a team with minimal spacing.

But would he play defense? Kid looks half asleep all the time.

Hard to say.

Some guys start defending when everyone else on the team (especially the best players) defends, but some guys don’t.

Some guys defend harder when they don’t have to do as much offensively, but some guys don’t.

Right or wrong, I don’t think the Pistons are in a position to even entertain the idea of moving off Cade though.

[T-Cat]

I think Cade would look better if he played with better players.

I mean you could say that about any player.

But to your point, I think Cade would certainly benefit, perhaps significantly so, from being in a situation where he’s not being asked to have a 30% usage and handle all of the playmaking on a team with minimal spacing.

But would he play defense? Kid looks half asleep all the time.

We should make a trade for Cade and Bagley! This would help our bench tremendously!

What would Detroit want in return?

[Optimus_Steel]

But man this Det team is shockingly bad. They have a utter lack of basketball IQ and skill. They have athletes but minimal skill and absolutely no know how. No chemistry whatsoever. Det fans deserve better. Their young guys don’t pass the eye test.

thanks for recognizing this, i've been trying to say this on the pistons' forum but everyone is hellbent on blaming monty, as if any coach in the league could make this roster respectable.

it's not monty's fault that half the players can't catch a pass, play with no physicality, have low bball IQ and/or generally so lacking in skill. they'll hopefully make major changes but in the meantime i'm probably just going to watch magic and pacers games. i consider myself a pretty die-hard pistons fan i'm not going to torture myself.

Monty is meh and pretty average at his best but this is not a coaching issue. That’s a lack of skill, IQ, shooting combined with youth, it’s a recipe for disaster. My take on your “core pieces”:

Cade: maybe the only young guy with legitimate skill. However this is not the guy that was expected when picked #1. He is not that quick and is smaller size than expected. As of now doesn’t appear to be capable of being the top guy on a good team. Feels like he should be better creating for teammates but doesn’t do it well. Can’t shoot and concerning shooting numbers despite being a good ft shooter with 3 years in the league.

Ivey: very athletic, quick, can score in bunches. but has no bball IQ. Doesn’t know how to be effective, just forces stuff, can’t shoot. Can’t be a PG because of low IQ/bad feel, questionable handles. Maybe an instant offense off the bench type.

Ausar: impressive defense, rebounding, athlete. A type that every team needs. But he can’t get you buckets, more of a peripheral scorer that can score off cuts, being set up. Not a cornerstone offensively which that team needs badly. Still too early but questionable IQ so far. Ball handling is bad like his twin. Absolutely horrible shooter.

Duren: reminds me of a Dwight light. Obviously not a scorer unless spoonfed or hustle offensive rebound putbacks. He probably doesn’t have Dwight’s elite defensive instincts, people forget how good his defensive instincts were. Mechanical type. Good piece but not top player type.

Overall a young athletic team that severely lacks shooting, low on skillset, low IQ/low feel group. They also seem to lack chemistry and just don’t feel like they fit. Kinda of reminds me of former Magic teams from previous failed rebuild where low skill athletes were drafted hoping they would develop skills over time, turns out that doesn’t just happen. Lack of skillset, IQ, feel is concerning.

[thelead]

I mean you could say that about any player.

But to your point, I think Cade would certainly benefit, perhaps significantly so, from being in a situation where he’s not being asked to have a 30% usage and handle all of the playmaking on a team with minimal spacing.

But would he play defense? Kid looks half asleep all the time.

We should make a trade for Cade and Bagley! This would help our bench tremendously!

What would Detroit want in return?

Why would you want Bagley????

[RookieStar]

But would he play defense? Kid looks half asleep all the time.

We should make a trade for Cade and Bagley! This would help our bench tremendously!

What would Detroit want in return?

Why would you want Bagley????

NGL.. during the Luka draft I had

1A Bagley
1B Luka

In my board. Elite athleticism and one of the few players gifted with the double jump ability. Too bad his bbiq cant keep up with his skills

[SOUL]

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