Let's Talk About Mario

[fendilim]

Skiles plays people who are ready to play. Call him lazy or old school if you want, but showing rookies some tough love especially when they arent ready to contribute yet, should be a motivating factor for a rookie.

Ive always believed Skiles is a good development coach. But winning? Ehh..

[pepe1991]

Skiles plays people who are ready to play. Call him lazy or old school if you want, but showing rookies some tough love especially when they arent ready to contribute yet, should be a motivating factor for a rookie.

Ive always believed Skiles is a good development coach. But winning? Ehh..

He "developed" Harris that much that they traded him away in second year becauese in his last games under Skiles he was rolling with DNPs, same Harris was instant improvment over anthing Magic (and Bucks for that matter) had . Remember who took playing time away from Harris in Bucks- Luc Mbah a Moute and random scrub named Marquis Daniels who for some reason was even starter under SKiles

Who he ever developed well? One of his "babies" is Jennings who is below 40% FG for a career, one of most inneficient starters in nba last 10 years. Sanders? He is probably rolling another one right now

And there are guys like Deng (see Oladipo now ) who he was trying to kill in Bulls with 40 mpg . In Bulls at least it made some sense becaue they were playoff team, in Orlando he is killing guy on third worst team on East.

Agree that winning won't happen under him, however development won't either

[cedric76]

Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith

Well we know for sure that Hennigan was hoping that Porzingis dropped to the Magic at 5, so trading down was probably not an option.

I guess he could have had a trade in place if Porzingis was picked, but there were a lot of picks in between - so Turner could have easily been taken prior, so picking for Indiana at 5 would have been incredibly risky.

His only option was really to take Turner at 5 which in itself would have been a risk. Turner came with health risks and talent wise was in the mid teen range.

I was confident to pick Turner at 5 once kp was gone
My draft board for the magic was town,kp and Turner.
People saying you should pick bpa instead of fit is nonsense as you can't be 100% sure who will be the best player when you pick HOWEVER you can be 100% sure of your needs.
We needed a big that could block shot and spread the floor.
The 2015 draft was full of it (you can add Portis to that list) and we didn't get a single one of them.
Turner (like town and kp) would have Been perfect, huge wingspan, tall, good shooters.
Hmmmm just talking about it makes me upset.
This year,Not a single player in this draft has those attributes.
My hope is that we land chriss

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[cedric76]

Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith

and trade mario the bust

Not a bust, just not the best fit for this team

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[zelenooq]

It´s for the best if he asks for a trade, Skiles is just not the kinda coach that will develop a rookie. He uses them as punching bags while he "develops" 30 y. olds.
Another 3 years here under Skiles are 3 years wasted. In those 3 years Orlando will maybe make the playoffs in 1 of those years.

I've posted similar information before, but the myth that Skiles doesn't develop youth is one that keeps getting passed back and forth here and it's just not true. Some examples:

Ben Gordon - sixth player of the year as a rookie.
Brandon Jennings - started 82 games as a rookie.
Shawn Marion - started 79 games in his second year, averaging 17+ PPG.

The fact is, he has developed and played youth. Mario simply isn't ready for the big stage - watching the games rather than the box scores will tell you that. Sure, he flashes skills, because he has great potential, but he's still quite raw.

He has the potential, maybe next year, maybe he evolves into a legitimate starter like Marion did?

It's patently ridiculous to say that the Magic should trade Mario simply because "Skiles won't develop him." Historically, that's exactly what he has done. Maybe he's not impacting games much because he simply isn't ready to do so.

he play them because - injuries -.-
get real,man

[zelenooq]

Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith

and trade mario the bust

Not a bust, just not the best fit for this team

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

he fits with the team,he just don't fit with fournier "selfinesh" and skiles "blind"
so,yes,trade him and take someone better for this forunier and skil...i mean,this team
it is better to trade him now when he is still #5 rookie than 2 years with skiles as lottery pick bust

[zelenooq]

son of the bitch

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-elfrid-payton-0325-20160324-story.html

Skiles said he told his players from the start of training camp they'd have to compete for playing time.

"You also have to verbalize it to guys — and it has been a whole bunch of times — we want guys to earn their minutes and understand how you perform is important," he said. "If you're a young player and you have a bad game or something, you certainly don't want them sulking or getting too down about it.

"But on the other hand, you want them to have some sense of urgency that, 'I have to perform. This is big-time pro sports,' and it's not just, 'That's OK because I'm here to develop and by Year 4 I'll magically be [a great player].' That's not the way it works."

and then he play fournier with a tone of mistakes but hey,you have to earn it
with blowjob,i guess

[cedric76]

and trade mario the bust

Not a bust, just not the best fit for this team

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

he fits with the team,he just don't fit with fournier "selfinesh" and skiles "blind"
so,yes,trade him and take someone better for this forunier and skil...i mean,this team
it is better to trade him now when he is still #5 rookie than 2 years with skiles as lottery pick bust

Myles has better potential and better physical tools than Mario, even the Mario lovers should be able to see this

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[cedric76]

son of the bitch

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-elfrid-payton-0325-20160324-story.html

Skiles said he told his players from the start of training camp they'd have to compete for playing time.

"You also have to verbalize it to guys — and it has been a whole bunch of times — we want guys to earn their minutes and understand how you perform is important," he said. "If you're a young player and you have a bad game or something, you certainly don't want them sulking or getting too down about it.

"But on the other hand, you want them to have some sense of urgency that, 'I have to perform. This is big-time pro sports,' and it's not just, 'That's OK because I'm here to develop and by Year 4 I'll magically be [a great player].' That's not the way it works."

and then he play fournier with a tone of mistakes but hey,you have to earn it
with blowjob,i guess

Evan earned it more than Mario, remove you rookie lover glasses

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[pepe1991]

Not a bust, just not the best fit for this team

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

he fits with the team,he just don't fit with fournier "selfinesh" and skiles "blind"
so,yes,trade him and take someone better for this forunier and skil...i mean,this team
it is better to trade him now when he is still #5 rookie than 2 years with skiles as lottery pick bust

Myles has better potential and better physical tools than Mario, even the Mario lovers should be able to see this

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Better physical tools? pls pass to me whatever you use, it's some good stuff. Dude bangs his knees when he runs, he is just big body, reason why he slipped down the draft is because he settles for mid range (biggest knock for this team in general) and , has something wrong with his hips and his medical record is questionable to say a least, go at draftexpress and see how something is wrong with his hip rotation and how his knees are turned inside so he is accident waiting to happen. Also dude is sloooooow for 20 years old kid, basically has no athletic tools , best thing he has is long arms so he can block some shots . But atletic or phyical tools? Non.

[pepe1991]

son of the bitch

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-elfrid-payton-0325-20160324-story.html

Skiles said he told his players from the start of training camp they'd have to compete for playing time.

"You also have to verbalize it to guys — and it has been a whole bunch of times — we want guys to earn their minutes and understand how you perform is important," he said. "If you're a young player and you have a bad game or something, you certainly don't want them sulking or getting too down about it.

"But on the other hand, you want them to have some sense of urgency that, 'I have to perform. This is big-time pro sports,' and it's not just, 'That's OK because I'm here to develop and by Year 4 I'll magically be [a great player].' That's not the way it works."

and then he play fournier with a tone of mistakes but hey,you have to earn it
with blowjob,i guess

Evan earned it more than Mario, remove you rookie lover glasses

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

Evan plays just because Skiles turns blind eye on his defense, he is actually today probably worst defender than Mario, his plus minus in last 3 games is -60, that makes his defense that bad that he is unplayble . Also he is contract warrior that decided to show up right where he decided to bet on himself .As far as we know,some tool will give him max deal because teams will be desperate and he will be gone. And what then? wasted Hezonjas rookie year on contract warrior who left ? Long term he can't play SF because all stats point out that he is atrocious defender, atrocious rebounder and limited passer to say a least.

Once you remove your french-loving glasses you will se player that doesn't do anything good but shoot, and even in that he is inconsistent, and because his athletic tools are limited he won't grow as a player any more than he is now,because to go from being good role player to become allstar wing in NBA you actually need elite athletic tools or Curry-like shooting, he has non. He is just good shooter who can't defend with limited athletic tools

[zelenooq]

son of the bitch

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/orlando-magic/os-magic-elfrid-payton-0325-20160324-story.html

Skiles said he told his players from the start of training camp they'd have to compete for playing time.

"You also have to verbalize it to guys — and it has been a whole bunch of times — we want guys to earn their minutes and understand how you perform is important," he said. "If you're a young player and you have a bad game or something, you certainly don't want them sulking or getting too down about it.

"But on the other hand, you want them to have some sense of urgency that, 'I have to perform. This is big-time pro sports,' and it's not just, 'That's OK because I'm here to develop and by Year 4 I'll magically be [a great player].' That's not the way it works."

and then he play fournier with a tone of mistakes but hey,you have to earn it
with blowjob,i guess

Evan earned it more than Mario, remove you rookie lover glasses

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

hahahahahahaha
evan doesn't earned a one minute at the right coach
because,selfish play in team game hurts team
statistic speaks loud about that (line with hezonja and with fournier)
i mean, yes he has better attacking the rim
he is not better shooter but he gets more opportunity in the game if he starts with 1-5 to end with 5-15, hezonja doesn't
but even he has better skills right now he is not better player for the team right now
to selfish player hurts team
so,no, evan doesn't deserve his minutes
when he play bad he is still - playing
when he makes a tone of mistakes he still - playing
when mario make just one mistake, he is benched so...
evan play even when he doesn't deserve his minutes
mario doesn't
put off fournier lover glasses skiles has too
everyone see it but you and skiles

[cedric76]

son of the bitch

and then he play fournier with a tone of mistakes but hey,you have to earn it
with blowjob,i guess

Evan earned it more than Mario, remove you rookie lover glasses

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

hahahahahahaha
evan doesn't earned a one minute at the right coach
because,selfish play in team game hurts team
statistic speaks loud about that (line with hezonja and with fournier)
i mean, yes he has better attacking the rim
he is not better shooter but he gets more opportunity in the game if he starts with 1-5 to end with 5-15, hezonja doesn't
but even he has better skills right now he is not better player for the team right now
to selfish player hurts team
so,no, evan doesn't deserve his minutes
when he play bad he is still - playing
when he makes a tone of mistakes he still - playing
when mario make just one mistake, he is benched so...
evan play even when he doesn't deserve his minutes
mario doesn't
put off fournier lover glasses skiles has too
everyone see it but you and skiles

I m not a fan of Fournier, but you don't need glasses to see that he is far better than Mario. Mario will have opportunity next season

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[tiderulz]

Rob should have listen to me and trade down to draft myles turner, we would have less Headache for Free Agency and draft

EP,CJ,Jennings
Dipo,Evan,marble
AG,Draft pick, FA
Myles,AG,Ersan,Smith
Vuc,Myles,Smith

Well we know for sure that Hennigan was hoping that Porzingis dropped to the Magic at 5, so trading down was probably not an option.

I guess he could have had a trade in place if Porzingis was picked, but there were a lot of picks in between - so Turner could have easily been taken prior, so picking for Indiana at 5 would have been incredibly risky.

His only option was really to take Turner at 5 which in itself would have been a risk. Turner came with health risks and talent wise was in the mid teen range.

I was confident to pick Turner at 5 once kp was gone
My draft board for the magic was town,kp and Turner.
People saying you should pick bpa instead of fit is nonsense as you can't be 100% sure who will be the best player when you pick HOWEVER you can be 100% sure of your needs.
We needed a big that could block shot and spread the floor.
The 2015 draft was full of it (you can add Portis to that list) and we didn't get a single one of them.
Turner (like town and kp) would have Been perfect, huge wingspan, tall, good shooters.
Hmmmm just talking about it makes me upset.
This year,Not a single player in this draft has those attributes.
My hope is that we land chriss

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

if GS didnt take BPA, they wouldnt have gotten Curry

[cedric76]

Well we know for sure that Hennigan was hoping that Porzingis dropped to the Magic at 5, so trading down was probably not an option.

I guess he could have had a trade in place if Porzingis was picked, but there were a lot of picks in between - so Turner could have easily been taken prior, so picking for Indiana at 5 would have been incredibly risky.

His only option was really to take Turner at 5 which in itself would have been a risk. Turner came with health risks and talent wise was in the mid teen range.

I was confident to pick Turner at 5 once kp was gone
My draft board for the magic was town,kp and Turner.
People saying you should pick bpa instead of fit is nonsense as you can't be 100% sure who will be the best player when you pick HOWEVER you can be 100% sure of your needs.
We needed a big that could block shot and spread the floor.
The 2015 draft was full of it (you can add Portis to that list) and we didn't get a single one of them.
Turner (like town and kp) would have Been perfect, huge wingspan, tall, good shooters.
Hmmmm just talking about it makes me upset.
This year,Not a single player in this draft has those attributes.
My hope is that we land chriss

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

if GS didnt take BPA, they wouldnt have gotten Curry

that s your answer ? ok

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[BadMofoPimp]

Golden State already had Monte Ellis playing PG. Thus, there was not a need for Curry. Hence, I think they took Curry because they felt he was the best player available.

[tiderulz]

I was confident to pick Turner at 5 once kp was gone
My draft board for the magic was town,kp and Turner.
People saying you should pick bpa instead of fit is nonsense as you can't be 100% sure who will be the best player when you pick HOWEVER you can be 100% sure of your needs.
We needed a big that could block shot and spread the floor.
The 2015 draft was full of it (you can add Portis to that list) and we didn't get a single one of them.
Turner (like town and kp) would have Been perfect, huge wingspan, tall, good shooters.
Hmmmm just talking about it makes me upset.
This year,Not a single player in this draft has those attributes.
My hope is that we land chriss

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

if GS didnt take BPA, they wouldnt have gotten Curry

that s your answer ? ok

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

i agree that fit is a factor, but BPA should be a driving force too. Look at Detroit taking Darko instead of Wade/Melo/etc, because of the need of a post player. Cleveland needing a PF and taking Anthony Bennett. just a couple of examples.

Plenty of historical evidence of teams missing big time on players because they chose a player at a position of need rather than the best player available. Now if you rate multiple players of different positions at the same level, then i can see position of need. If Hennigan and company saw Mario, Turner, KP, Mudiay, WInslow all at the same tier with the same probability to development, then yes, go for the player that fits your needs the best. Not debating your statement of Turner over Mario. I did worry with all the talk of his gait, etc, but if independent doctors (i just dont trust our own team doctors anymore) said it was okay, then they should have looked real hard, especially with our abundance of wing players right now.

[cedric76]

Plenty of historical evidence of team missing on great player because they thought they took the bpa

[Blue_and_Whte]

We're really not going to know who we ACTUALLY should've taken until a couple of years down the road. I'm still excited about Mario and AG moving forward.

[Xatticus]

The TS% was to show how Fournier's shooting efficiency ranks amongst players in a similar role. It is filtered for 1400minutes and 40 games started to show that he sustained it vs starting level competition and for a quality amount of time.

The AS% was to show how Fourniers Assist % compared to players who because of their size range (6'6"-6'9") more than likely are defended by and defend players in that same size range (basically SF's vs SF's but its more fluid than that). That was also filtered at 1400m/40 gs to show that % was vs starting level competition and sustained for a quality amount of minutes.

Btw, 40 (41) games is half an NBA season and most starters average around 2100 minutes a season (thus 1400m is about 2/3 of a starter's season minutes). Those numbers aren't arbitrary.

Numbers can't be arbitrary. Decisions can be, and the decision to filter based upon number of games started is a perfect example of an arbitrary decision. There are no asterisks next the to stats of non-starters. Assist percentage is a rate. It is based on the number of field goals scored. It doesn't tell you how effective the offense was while said player is on the floor. One can have an exceptionally high assist rate in an exceptionally poor offense. The quality of competition is largely irrelevant.

To be clear, I find the metric to be essentially useless. It is very imprecise, and based upon perhaps the worst counting stat in basketball. Assists are as much a function of possession as they are an ability to create baskets for other players. This is why some of the most notoriously selfish players in the history of the NBA (Kobe Bryant) are able to accumulate more than their share of assists.