Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

dsg2021 · Post #281 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:37 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

As much as we harp on the inconsistent offense, all credit is due to the defense and energy level of all of our wings. DJ is making some good passes out there for sure. And Jerian is a great defensive PG with length.

dsg2021 · Post #282 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:51 pm

Knightro wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:How often did Bam Adebayo play with Hassan Whiteside? How many massive minutes was MIA giving Bam in preaseason towards expecting him to play so much in the opener? What was the W/L result of -64 NET RATING? 1 W..

You don’t have to live with a pair’s specific minutes together. Just seeing them together for 4 minutes puts the other team in a spot to play bigger than they have before, run less plays within their small ball offense than they are used to.

You don't get it.

Read on Twitter

^ exactly what MDS said holds true here. You can't fall into the "results > process" trap. Just because the Magic happened to win the game against Miami when Miami countered with a big lineup doesn't mean that the decision the Magic made was a good one.

Against Miami... Bamba/Vucevic played together for 5 minutes and had a -59.9 net rating. The Magic won in spite of their rotations that game.

Adebayo and Whiteside have played together for 9 minutes this season and have a -2.3 net rating.

Again, I suggested not living with a two-man statement. Because it’s a 5-man game, and lucky roulette or not, the Magic won. The Heat had played with a smaller lineup all preseason, and now Josh Richardson is trying an iso instead of a play, Bam’s taking 2 FG’s away from Dragic or another more skilled offensive player, the Heat offense is playing weird basically.

Am I saying the Bamba/Vooch is a positive pairing, or that it should be played more? No. But, it does have its positives and its trickling side-effects that affect an entire 5-man lineup and the offense an opponent originally wanted to do. If you roll out two bigs for 4 minutes, and then never again, but still have Isaac and Gordon at the 4’s, and then Bamba and Vooch individually, you’re creating a perceived problem that you need to go big in response and adjust your offense from what you wanted to before. In essence, -64 is not as bad as it seems (in the statistical concept of 5v5 and W/L results so far), and it does tend to aid in the perceived notion that an opponent must adjust a little to ORL in lesser comfortable ways (so far).

OrlandO · Post #283 » by **OrlandO** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:52 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

Unfortunately the last two games they've played they haven't been able to score at all despite going against mostly bench units... 30% fg / 11% 3pt. So that great defense has been neutralized by awful offense. Feels like we're putting the ball in Grant's hands too much... maybe he will get better, but so far he looks like he lacks confidence with the ball. Simmons needs to get his driving game going and Bamba needs to use his length more on the inside like he did vs Miami. That lineup probably hinges on whether Gordon is hot or not with his jumpers... would like to see him figure out how to consistently take advantage of playing against bench players.

dsg2021 · Post #284 » by **dsg2021** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:00 pm

OrlandO wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

Unfortunately the last two games they've played they haven't been able to score at all despite going against mostly bench units... 30% fg / 11% 3pt. So that great defense has been neutralized by awful offense. Feels like we're putting the ball in Grant's hands too much... maybe he will get better, but so far he looks like he lacks confidence with the ball. Simmons needs to get his driving game going and Bamba needs to use his length more on the inside like he did vs Miami. That lineup probably hinges on whether Gordon is hot or not with his jumpers... would like to see him figure out how to consistently take advantage of playing against bench players.

I agree. I feel like AG is getting closer and closer to that too. He’s already comfortable dribbling in any scenario which is great to see. That’s a huge step 1. Step 2 is avoiding the constant drawn charges he makes! He’s getting there tho!

magicman112 · Post #285 » by **magicman112** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:03 pm

dsg2021 wrote:
OrlandO wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

Unfortunately the last two games they've played they haven't been able to score at all despite going against mostly bench units... 30% fg / 11% 3pt. So that great defense has been neutralized by awful offense. Feels like we're putting the ball in Grant's hands too much... maybe he will get better, but so far he looks like he lacks confidence with the ball. Simmons needs to get his driving game going and Bamba needs to use his length more on the inside like he did vs Miami. That lineup probably hinges on whether Gordon is hot or not with his jumpers... would like to see him figure out how to consistently take advantage of playing against bench players.

I agree. I feel like AG is getting closer and closer to that too. He’s already comfortable dribbling in any scenario which is great to see. That’s a huge step 1. Step 2 is avoiding the constant drawn charges he makes! He’s getting there tho!

Yeah AG gets a little too excited sometimes and forces drives when he doesn't need to.

OrlandO · Post #286 » by **OrlandO** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:04 pm

Knightro wrote:
dsg2021 wrote:How often did Bam Adebayo play with Hassan Whiteside? How many massive minutes was MIA giving Bam in preaseason towards expecting him to play so much in the opener? What was the W/L result of -64 NET RATING? 1 W..

You don’t have to live with a pair’s specific minutes together. Just seeing them together for 4 minutes puts the other team in a spot to play bigger than they have before, run less plays within their small ball offense than they are used to.

You don't get it.

Read on Twitter

^ exactly what MDS said holds true here as well. You can't fall into the "results > process" trap. Just because the Magic happened to win the game against Miami when Miami countered with a big lineup doesn't mean that the decision the Magic made was a good one.

Against Miami... Bamba/Vucevic played together for 5 minutes and had a -59.9 net rating. The Magic won in spite of their rotations that game.

Adebayo and Whiteside have played together for 9 minutes this season and have a -2.3 net rating.

What's important is how their group produces moving forward. They produced last game... 14 points while giving up only 7 points in 4 minutes.

Blue_and_Whte · Post #287 » by **Blue_and_Whte** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:08 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:

Read on Twitter

Clifford has been trolling us for a while with some of these comments.

I'm just going to give in and go along with it now. Vuc a top 10 C? Fine. DJ a really good PG and decision maker? Sure thing. Evan our second best on ball defender? You got it dude. This is clearly what the universe wants to give us. I'm tired of fighting

Did it ever occur to you that maybe youre just wrong about the players you have a personal hatred for?

Sent from my VS501 using RealGM mobile app

fendilim · Post #288 » by **fendilim** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:13 pm

OrlandO wrote:
YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

Unfortunately the last two games they've played they haven't been able to score at all despite going against mostly bench units... 30% fg / 11% 3pt. So that great defense has been neutralized by awful offense. Feels like we're putting the ball in Grant's hands too much... maybe he will get better, but so far he looks like he lacks confidence with the ball. Simmons needs to get his driving game going and Bamba needs to use his length more on the inside like he did vs Miami. That lineup probably hinges on whether Gordon is hot or not with his jumpers... would like to see him figure out how to consistently take advantage of playing against bench players.

So good at creating missed shots, we create our own missed shots too..

Catledge · Post #289 » by **Catledge** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:16 pm

magicman112 wrote:
Yeah AG gets a little too excited sometimes and forces drives when he doesn't need to.

It's a tough balancing act for him. We need him to be an active part of making things happen on offense, but we also need him to not force contested jumpers and not turn it over.

I'd like to see more deep catches against opposing SFs.

magicman112 · Post #290 » by **magicman112** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:25 pm

Catledge wrote:
magicman112 wrote:
Yeah AG gets a little too excited sometimes and forces drives when he doesn't need to.

It's a tough balancing act for him. We need him to be an active part of making things happen on offense, but we also need him to not force contested jumpers and not turn it over.

I'd like to see more deep catches against opposing SFs.

Yes, if he can be consistent he's got a shot at being an All-Star reserve this season.

cedric76 · Post #291 » by **cedric76** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:46 pm

AG really need to play within himself

Too much hero ball

He needs to attack the pair instead of shooting all those long 2

Post #292 » by **Def Swami** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Knightro wrote:Los Angeles Lakers Get: Nikola Vucevic

Orlando Magic Get: Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, 2019 first-round pick (top-25-protected), 2020 second-round pick (unprotected)

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2801303-the-blockbuster-nba-trades-we-want-to-see-this-season

Would you do it? I would if the Lakers 1st was just lotto protected and not top 25 protected.

KCP isn't good IMHO. Overrated as a shooter and just okay as a defender. The coup in this deal would be the picks, and they'd have to at least have limit the protection to top 10 for me to be interested.

Skin · Post #293 » by **Skin** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:06 pm

pepe1991 wrote:I'm still pulling for idea to change Augustin for Ross in SL.
That bench is terrible, nobody can pass damn ball. 24 min on the floor for them, they combined for 4 assists and 6-26 from the floor ( including 0-12 for 3 )

Who's idea is that? I think I like it, but I dunno. Coming off the bench is probably the best role for him.

That said, I've become a big T-Ross fan. I hope he stays around for his next contract. Great team guy. Plays with a lot of heart and hustle.

NavalAviator94 · Post #294 » by **NavalAviator94** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:59 pm

YosemiteSam wrote:Don't think this was posted yet

Read on Twitter

I think we all saw ELITE Defense from that unit and it's pretty cool to see them being the best.

There is so much to build off of within this team right now with glaring examples of where they can each get better. I love that.

NavalAviator94 · Post #295 » by **NavalAviator94** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:01 pm

Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I'm still pulling for idea to change Augustin for Ross in SL.
That bench is terrible, nobody can pass damn ball. 24 min on the floor for them, they combined for 4 assists and 6-26 from the floor ( including 0-12 for 3 )

Who's idea is that? I think I like it, but I dunno. Coming off the bench is probably the best role for him.

That said, I've become a big T-Ross fan. I hope he stays around for his next contract. Great team guy. Plays with a lot of heart and hustle.

Ross is everything you could ask for in a player outside of his shooting struggles. I love the guy but we need consistency from him.

NavalAviator94 · Post #296 » by **NavalAviator94** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:05 pm

cedric76 wrote:AG really need to play within himself

Too much hero ball

He needs to attack the pair instead of shooting all those long 2

He does and I think he knows it. I've said it before, 20 games is the number I'm looking at to have a better idea of where we are and what changes should be made. He just needs to slow it down and think more. He's so athletic and pretty damn big and strong now that he can do so much. Cliff is going to get the best out of him.

And one thing I have to say. How about JI last night? What a great time to have a nice break out for him.

Skin · Post #297 » by **Skin** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:11 pm

NavalAviator94 wrote:
Skin wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:I'm still pulling for idea to change Augustin for Ross in SL.
That bench is terrible, nobody can pass damn ball. 24 min on the floor for them, they combined for 4 assists and 6-26 from the floor ( including 0-12 for 3 )

Who's idea is that? I think I like it, but I dunno. Coming off the bench is probably the best role for him.

That said, I've become a big T-Ross fan. I hope he stays around for his next contract. Great team guy. Plays with a lot of heart and hustle.

Ross is everything you could ask for in a player outside of his shooting struggles. I love the guy but we need consistency from him.

Yeah, that's why a bench role is good for him. He enjoys coming off the bench too. Zero ego guy. So that's why I hope he stays around and hopefully for a good deal. $10M per year is too much for him if that's what he needs.

Post #298 » by **Knightro** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:17 pm

Skin wrote:Who's idea is that? I think I like it, but I dunno. Coming off the bench is probably the best role for him.

That said, I've become a big T-Ross fan. I hope he stays around for his next contract. Great team guy. Plays with a lot of heart and hustle.

It's kind of amazing really. Ross used to be a quality, albeit streaky, scorer and shooter who didn't really do much else well.

Now? He's turned himself into a nice little defender but can't seem to make a shot anymore.

OrlandO · Post #299 » by **OrlandO** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:24 pm

Weird season so far... 2-2 while the majority of the team is shooting well below average.

BadMofoPimp · Post #300 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:30 pm

MagicStarwipe wrote:
j-ragg wrote:

Read on Twitter

Clifford has been trolling us for a while with some of these comments.

I'm just going to give in and go along with it now. Vuc a top 10 C? Fine. DJ a really good PG and decision maker? Sure thing. Evan our second best on ball defender? You got it dude. This is clearly what the universe wants to give us. I'm tired of fighting

Clifford sounds like a non-biased realist!