Game Thread 25: Orlando Magic (10-14) vs Denver Nuggets (8-15) 12/10 7PM ET

[VFX]

We need to find a way to get Jokić from Denver.

Whyyyy??


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He can be an All Star in two years and Denver has him burried on the bench behind Nurkić. We have no such player currently.

Jokic is a very sneakily underrated player. He's been great this year.

[Magic_Johnny12]

True. Being a small market team - at least we can retain who we draft. I guess you have to ask yourself, would you rather be the timberwolves (building young talent through the draft for the future) or the hornets (making the playoffs and never getting better).

That's an inaccurate statement.

I'm trying to understand your point of view on this.. ok sorry when they get a first or second round exit and get the 20ish pick in the draft..Sounds appetizing

My point is that you're trying to make a valid argument with false statements. Charlotte is a good team not great but a very solid playoff team and is a team that can easily upset a better team. I will take that ANYDAY over the trajectory we are currently heading in. Them being "first or second round exit and getting the 20ish pick" kinda team is what put them in the drivers seat in resigning Batum, without that they easily lose him.

We need to show our current core/fanbase that we will do whatever it takes to create a winning product, plain and simple.

[Landshark]

So basically go down the Sacramento route and continue to relay on the draft and pingpong balls that have been so great to us as of late?

Sacramento has struggled because 1) their management is terrible at drafting, and 2) they don't really commit to the draft. Their picks are usually in the middle of the lottery instead of the top.

The draft doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives us a better chance of getting franchise talent than any other option.

1) their management is terrible at drafting - We don't currently have the best track record either.

2) they don't really commit to the draft. Their picks are usually in the middle of the lottery instead of the top - Exactly where we have and will be picking.

"The draft doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives us a better chance of getting franchise talent than any other option" - Not true. I trust Hennigans eye for talent in trades than his drafting skills.

1) I'd say Hennigan's about average. Not as great as we originally thought, but he did see Porzingis's talent before other GM's, etc.
2) Of course, which is why so many posters want us to commit more to the draft

We need an actual franchise player. Trading a role player for a better role player isn't going to solve our problems. Star players demand trades to join other star players, and we have none right now. There's a very small chance that we could trade for an emerging future star, but that's only happened once in recent memory, and GM's are a lot more wary about that after seeing the James Harden trade go down.

[p0peye]

Jokic is a very sneakily underrated player. He's been great this year.

I'm not sure about underrated, he got everyones attention last year, being right there with KAT and Porzingis. Denver just ain't developing him right for Nurkić, who albeit very good, is a player with lower ceiling.

[Magic_Johnny12]

Sacramento has struggled because 1) their management is terrible at drafting, and 2) they don't really commit to the draft. Their picks are usually in the middle of the lottery instead of the top.

The draft doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives us a better chance of getting franchise talent than any other option.

1) their management is terrible at drafting - We don't currently have the best track record either.

2) they don't really commit to the draft. Their picks are usually in the middle of the lottery instead of the top - Exactly where we have and will be picking.

"The draft doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives us a better chance of getting franchise talent than any other option" - Not true. I trust Hennigans eye for talent in trades than his drafting skills.

1) I'd say Hennigan's about average. Not as great as we originally thought, but he did see Porzingis's talent before other GM's, etc.
2) Of course, which is why so many posters want us to commit more to the draft

We need an actual franchise player. Trading a role player for a better role player isn't going to solve our problems. Star players demand trades to join other star players, and we have none right now. There's a very small chance that we could trade for an emerging future star, but that's only happened once in recent memory, and GM's are a lot more wary about that after seeing the James Harden trade go down.

We have been doing this EXACT thing for the last 5 years. Its time to go another direction as Hennigan has already tried with the Oladipo trade. Just have to be patient and take advantage once a great opportunity presents itself.

Drafting a "franchise player" is a bit harder than you think buddy. Especially when you're ALWAYS drafting outside the potential star range as we have for the last couple of years.

[VFX]

That's an inaccurate statement.

I'm trying to understand your point of view on this.. ok sorry when they get a first or second round exit and get the 20ish pick in the draft..Sounds appetizing

My point is that you're trying to make a valid argument with false statements. Charlotte is a good team not great but a very solid playoff team and is a team that can easily upset a better team. I will take that ANYDAY over the trajectory we are currently heading in. Them being "first or second round exit and getting the 20ish pick" kinda team is what put them in the drivers seat in resigning Batum, without that they easily lose him.

We need to show our current core/fanbase that we will do whatever it takes to create a winning product, plain and simple.

What do you suggest then at this juncture?

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

In retrospect, Mudiay over Hezonja would have been an improvement for this team.

[PrimeThyme]

Welp, Gallinaris audition went well tonight. Denver probably just got themselves an extra first rounder from us after this performance

[OrlandO]

Biz and Ibaka just ain't playing good defense and that was suppose to be their specialty.

Denvers bigs: 69pts 28rbds 4blks 32-46fg's = 69%
Magic Bigs: 53pts 15rbds 5blks 21-38fg's = 55%(counting Green as PF)

Biz averaging 7.9 reb 1 blk in 30 mins as a starter. That's not going to cut it. What's frustrating about it is he was averaging more rebs/blks coming off the bench playing 7 less minutes. He needs to be closer to the 12 reb 2 blk average he had in Toronto as a starter. I wish Ibaka rebounded better and didn't leave guys open on the 3pt line, but he is blocking a ton of shots in the paint since the lineup change so I can't complain.

[Jameerthefear]

Welp, Gallanaris audition went well tonight. Denver probably just got themselves an extra first rounder from us after this performance

if we're giving a first rounder for an injury prone player who can walk after this season than rob is even worse than i thought.

[Landshark]

1) their management is terrible at drafting - We don't currently have the best track record either.

2) they don't really commit to the draft. Their picks are usually in the middle of the lottery instead of the top - Exactly where we have and will be picking.

"The draft doesn't guarantee anything, but it gives us a better chance of getting franchise talent than any other option" - Not true. I trust Hennigans eye for talent in trades than his drafting skills.

1) I'd say Hennigan's about average. Not as great as we originally thought, but he did see Porzingis's talent before other GM's, etc.
2) Of course, which is why so many posters want us to commit more to the draft

We need an actual franchise player. Trading a role player for a better role player isn't going to solve our problems. Star players demand trades to join other star players, and we have none right now. There's a very small chance that we could trade for an emerging future star, but that's only happened once in recent memory, and GM's are a lot more wary about that after seeing the James Harden trade go down.

We have been doing this EXACT thing for the last 5 years. Its time to go another direction as Hennigan has already tried with the Oladipo trade. Just have to be patient and take advantage once a great opportunity presents itself.

Drafting a "franchise player" is a bit harder than you think buddy. Especially when you're ALWAYS drafting outside the potential star range as we have for the last couple of years.

We've been doing it for three years, and we weren't as committed in the third year as we were in the first two. Getting the 11th pick in the fourth year was just a failed attempt at making the playoffs. The fact that we were just outside the potential star range shows how close the plan was to succeeding, and this year's potential star range is greater than usual.

Drafting a franchise player is hard, but it's still easier than finding the great opportunity that you described.

[Magic_Kingdom]

The decline in every key player's offensive game this year is staggering.

Here are the FG percentages for our returning core players:

2015-16 2016-17
Vucevic .510 .435
Gordon .473 .408
Fournier .462 .430
Payton .436 .442
Hezonja .433 .307

Payton is actually shooting slightly higher from the field, but his 3PT% is way down from .326 last year to .216 this year.

Fournier's 3PT% is down from .400 last year to .366 this year.

Hezonja's 3PT% is down from .349 last year to .194 this year.

[Magic_Johnny12]

I'm trying to understand your point of view on this.. ok sorry when they get a first or second round exit and get the 20ish pick in the draft..Sounds appetizing

My point is that you're trying to make a valid argument with false statements. Charlotte is a good team not great but a very solid playoff team and is a team that can easily upset a better team. I will take that ANYDAY over the trajectory we are currently heading in. Them being "first or second round exit and getting the 20ish pick" kinda team is what put them in the drivers seat in resigning Batum, without that they easily lose him.

We need to show our current core/fanbase that we will do whatever it takes to create a winning product, plain and simple.

What do you suggest then at this juncture?

Thankfully that is not my job to decide as my profession is not in general managing and maximizing assets, but as hated as Hennigan is around these parts I still genuinely feel as he's still doing exactly what he should be doing and thats be patient and strike when a great opportunity presents itself. Otis Smith would have traded away half of this team by now.

I think Hennigan should and will be judged after this years trade deadline. There's obviously holes in our current roster that needs immediate attention so we'll finally see what Hennigan does/capable of when he's under pressure and aggressive.

[p0peye]

The decline in every key player's offensive game this year is staggering.

Here are the FG percentages for our returning core players:

2015-16 2016-17
Vucevic .510 .435
Gordon .473 .408
Fournier .462 .430
Payton .436 .442
Hezonja .433 .307

Payton is actually shooting slightly higher from the field, but his 3PT% is way down from .326 last year to .216 this year.

Fournier's 3PT% is down from .400 last year to .366 this year.

Hezonja's 3PT% is down from .349 last year to .194 this year.

Vogel, god bless him, for all his defensive brilliance was never a mastermind at creating easy scoring schemes and we lack Paul George to bail us out closer to mediocrity on that side of the floor.

[Jameerthefear]

The decline in every key player's offensive game this year is staggering.

Here are the FG percentages for our returning core players:

2015-16 2016-17
Vucevic .510 .435
Gordon .473 .408
Fournier .462 .430
Payton .436 .442
Hezonja .433 .307

Payton is actually shooting slightly higher from the field, but his 3PT% is way down from .326 last year to .216 this year.

Fournier's 3PT% is down from .400 last year to .366 this year.

Hezonja's 3PT% is down from .349 last year to .194 this year.

Vogel, god bless him, for all his defensive brilliance was never a mastermind at creating easy scoring schemes and we lack Paul George to bail us out closer to mediocrity on that side of the floor.

He doesn't even need a Paul George really, just a playmaker.

[Magic_Johnny12]

1) I'd say Hennigan's about average. Not as great as we originally thought, but he did see Porzingis's talent before other GM's, etc.
2) Of course, which is why so many posters want us to commit more to the draft

We need an actual franchise player. Trading a role player for a better role player isn't going to solve our problems. Star players demand trades to join other star players, and we have none right now. There's a very small chance that we could trade for an emerging future star, but that's only happened once in recent memory, and GM's are a lot more wary about that after seeing the James Harden trade go down.

We have been doing this EXACT thing for the last 5 years. Its time to go another direction as Hennigan has already tried with the Oladipo trade. Just have to be patient and take advantage once a great opportunity presents itself.

Drafting a "franchise player" is a bit harder than you think buddy. Especially when you're ALWAYS drafting outside the potential star range as we have for the last couple of years.

We've been doing it for three years, and we weren't as committed in the third year as we were in the first two. Getting the 11th pick in the fourth year was just a failed attempt at making the playoffs. The fact that we were just outside the potential star range shows how close the plan was to succeeding, and this year's potential star range is greater than usual.

Drafting a franchise player is hard, but it's still easier than finding the great opportunity that you described.

You're forgetting that Basketball is more a business than anything. Tanking does not generate actual currency. Especially when you have been doing it for the last 5 yrs. More tanking means less fans/attendance, less fans and attendance means less money in ownerships pockets.

Prepare yourself for a rude awakening if you think NOW that management covets potential championships more than winning meaningless games.

[skywalker33]

We need to find a way to get Jokić from Denver.

Not likely to happen, he's one of our core players. Malone hasn't exactly figured how to deploy both Nurkic and Jokic, but the value is too big on both young bigs to just punt.

[OrlandO]

well we get two days off finally and don't have to travel far for the next game.... we'll find out if fatigue was to blame or not for the recent collapse in defense.

[MagicMadness]

I'm not seeing this great defense we supposedly have.

All I see is that when we score high, the other team scores high. When we score low, the other team scores low - or blows us out.

[VFX]

My point is that you're trying to make a valid argument with false statements. Charlotte is a good team not great but a very solid playoff team and is a team that can easily upset a better team. I will take that ANYDAY over the trajectory we are currently heading in. Them being "first or second round exit and getting the 20ish pick" kinda team is what put them in the drivers seat in resigning Batum, without that they easily lose him.

We need to show our current core/fanbase that we will do whatever it takes to create a winning product, plain and simple.

What do you suggest then at this juncture?

Thankfully that is not my job to decide as my profession is not in general managing and maximizing assets, but as hated as Hennigan is around these parts I still genuinely feel as he's still doing exactly what he should be doing and thats be patient and strike when a great opportunity presents itself. Otis Smith would have traded away half of this team by now.

I think Hennigan should and will be judged after this years trade deadline. There's obviously holes in our current roster that needs immediate attention so we'll finally see what Hennigan does/capable of when he's under pressure and aggressive.

I agree. I'm not as much of a Hennigan hater as most on this board. I don't look at all of his moves as a collective, but individually.

However, I really hope he doesn't further jeopardize the future by making one sided deals to barely make the playoffs. Just making the playoffs shouldn't be the main objective. It's clear that whatever he has done to this point hasn't worked. So he has three options -

Blow up the team, tank with the current roster, or keep this roster and attempt to make the playoffs (not happening).